HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Time Difference favors West Coast team

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2014, 09:00 AM
  #1
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Time Difference favors West Coast team

Saw this study a few months back and thought it would be good to share it after this terrible road trip from our Habs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4350794.html

This study has been done in the NFL but I do not think it is far fetched to apply it to the NHL. I think such a study would really be interesting for NHL games since the sample would be much larger (more games, and more importantly, evening games).

I've been watching hockey since 1992 and as far as I remember, the Canadians have always struggled during their West Coast trips. This partially explains it I think.

This also could explain why it seems the West has dominated the East for what seems like forever. (Edit: I checked, it's 12 consecutive years)

It makes sense when you think about it. Western teams are faced with these two scenarios from a biological clock standpoint:

- Play at 16h30, a team whose biological clock is at 19h30
- Play at 19h30, a team whose biological clock is at 22h30

With the kind of parity we're seeing in the league these days, these small disadvantages can play a huge role. Unfortunately, there are no easy solution for this.

(Edit: We're seeing the same phenomena in the NBA this year, where most games are evening games)


Last edited by Corky: 03-09-2014 at 09:10 AM.
Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 09:14 AM
  #2
McSorleyStick
GIJON !
 
McSorleyStick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 221B Baker Street
Posts: 17,277
vCash: 500
We are also affected by coach level difference

McSorleyStick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 09:32 AM
  #3
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
*ahem*

No Excuse.

If we want to win the cup, we'll have to go against Western Teams, and we'll have to beat them.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 09:59 AM
  #4
Le Tricolore
Boo! Booooo!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 29,402
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
*ahem*

No Excuse.

If we want to win the cup, we'll have to go against Western Teams, and we'll have to beat them.
The finals are always at 8PM these days anyway. This thread is silly.

Le Tricolore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 11:48 AM
  #5
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,917
vCash: 500
Tippett, McLellan and Sutter are all better coaches than MT. It showed.

Andy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 11:56 AM
  #6
HeShootsHeScores
Registered User
 
HeShootsHeScores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,669
vCash: 500
Obviously everytime the habs has hit the western roads they play with heavy legs. There's also this altitude issue in colorado. Not a coincidence for sure.

Habs are problably gonna win vs bruins and rock the Bell centre, as if the western trip never happened.

HeShootsHeScores is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:04 PM
  #7
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
*ahem*

No Excuse.

If we want to win the cup, we'll have to go against Western Teams, and we'll have to beat them.
Sure, no one is disputing that. But is it fair? Probably not.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:05 PM
  #8
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
The finals are always at 8PM these days anyway. This thread is silly.
Feel free to hang around the 25,000 other threads about where does Vanek fit in the lineup buddy.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:05 PM
  #9
Team_Spirit
#FireTherrien
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Tippett, McLellan and Sutter are all better coaches than MT. It showed.

Team_Spirit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:06 PM
  #10
WHY LIE GUY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
The finals are always at 8PM these days anyway. This thread is silly.
If you've ever read the study, it points this out and suggests that an 8pm start will favor the Western teams, regardless of where the game is being played.

Why? Because our bodies peak performance is at around 4pm. So if the games are at 8PM EST - regardless of whether the game is being held in the east or west, the Western players circadian timings will always be closer to that optimal 4pm.

The only way the East gets an advantage, is for early home games.

WHY LIE GUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:11 PM
  #11
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky View Post
Sure, no one is disputing that. But is it fair? Probably not.
Life ain't fair. We have natural advantages, other teams have natural disadvantage.

Whining about it won't change matters. We are in the east, and if it means we have shortcomings because of it, then so be it.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:18 PM
  #12
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Life ain't fair. We have natural advantages, other teams have natural disadvantage.

Whining about it won't change matters. We are in the east, and if it means we have shortcomings because of it, then so be it.
Tell me then, what's the East natural advantage that has allow them to dominate the league for a period so long that it cannot just be explained by a coincidence.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:44 PM
  #13
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,410
vCash: 500
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/7...-to-back-games

Most Western teams have to travel about 10,000 extra miles in comparison to Eastern teams (some a lot more), so I don't we have much to stand on in terms of complaining about road trips.

Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 12:47 PM
  #14
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky View Post
Tell me then, what's the East natural advantage that has allow them to dominate the league for a period so long that it cannot just be explained by a coincidence.
The East has no natural advantage compared to the west.

when I say "we", I mean the Habs. We have much larger financial ressources than most teams in the league.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:24 PM
  #15
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/7...-to-back-games

Most Western teams have to travel about 10,000 extra miles in comparison to Eastern teams (some a lot more), so I don't we have much to stand on in terms of complaining about road trips.
But this has never been proven as being an advantage.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:30 PM
  #16
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky View Post
But this has never been proven as being an advantage.
Has your study been proven to be an advantage in hockey?

I'm not saying the circadian rhythm is a myth, it isn't, but considering the West has to deal with a ridiculously tough travel schedule (meaning huge shifts in your circadian rhythm), having the odd western trip that messes with Eastern teams' time clock isn't really a big deal.

Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:31 PM
  #17
WeThreeKings
DJ Nikita
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,108
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Therrien coaching favors opposition.

WeThreeKings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:38 PM
  #18
Dekar
Registered User
 
Dekar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bound Kingdom
Posts: 5,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Has it been proven to be an advantage in hockey?

I'm not saying the circadian rhythm is a myth, it isn't, but considering the West has to deal with a ridiculously tough travel schedule (meaning huge shifts in your circadian rhythm) , having the odd western trip that messes with Eastern teams' time clock isn't really a big deal.
Not proven in hockey, but it has been proven that the body performs most effectively from 6 to 12 hours after its regular rest period. Western teams travelling eastern would be forced to play earlier in their days, towards the middle of that time period for their players.

To even the playing field, western games would have to start a few hours earlier in their time zone to even out the fatigue disadvantage for the away teams comnig in, but that's not likely going to happen (i.e. 4-5pm Pacific time games would become the normal for cross-conference play).

OP isn't wrong, but it's not something we can change so there's little to no point to complaining about it. If it makes you feel better that eastern teams have the possibility of a slight disadvantage playing out west, that's fine.

Dekar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:39 PM
  #19
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Has your study been proven to be an advantage in hockey?

I'm not saying the circadian rhythm is a myth, it isn't, but considering the West has to deal with a ridiculously tough travel schedule (meaning huge shifts in your circadian rhythm), having the odd western trip that messes with Eastern teams' time clock isn't really a big deal.
Then how do you explain the western team advantage over the Eastern team for football, hockey (12 years of dominance) and possibly basketball.

Coincidence?

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:43 PM
  #20
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekar View Post

OP isn't wrong, but it's not something we can change so there's little to no point to complaining about it. If it makes you feel better that eastern teams have the possibility of a slight disadvantage playing out west, that's fine.
Bingo. (Note I never said he was wrong)

However I still believe that much tougher travel schedule that Western teams face takes a toll on the body as well, and probably evens a lot of the advantage given by the circadian rhythm.

Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 01:45 PM
  #21
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky View Post
Then how do you explain the western team advantage over the Eastern team for football, hockey (12 years of dominance) and possibly basketball.

Coincidence?
There's a correlation, but not enough to give it full causation. You'd have to factor in the toll a rougher travel schedule takes on the body, and it's effect on the circadian rhythm. Then factor in the strength of rosters, back-to-backs, home field advantage, etc.

In a vacuum it's an advantage, there's no denying it, but in the grand scheme of things it just becomes a factor, and not the cause.

To be honest I think it's a little more simple than that, Western teams are flat out better, and have better rosters right now.

Most East/West domination has been cyclical in sports if I recall correctly. Although I do agree the West has been better for more than just a 'cycle' when it comes to the NHL. Strong hockey minds have the ability to build superior rosters in hockey, which is also a factor in the West's dominance in my opinion.


Last edited by Dr Gonzo: 03-09-2014 at 01:50 PM.
Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 02:16 PM
  #22
Riggins
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,364
vCash: 500
Boo hoo, eastern teams have to travel west a couple times a year. The western teams spend a heck of a lot more time in airplanes.

Riggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 02:20 PM
  #23
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Bingo. (Note I never said he was wrong)

However I still believe that much tougher travel schedule that Western teams face takes a toll on the body as well, and probably evens a lot of the advantage given by the circadian rhythm.
We'll agree to disagree. I travel quite a bit for work and have noticed that traveling itself is not that tiresome, especially when you have your own personal plane (most team have). What is tough on the body is the change in time zone (jet lag).

Assuming you live on the Eastern time zone, think about when you go to the Caribbeans. Do you feel tired when you get there, after a 6 hours flight? You're legs might be a bit sore from sitting down for 6 hours but you are relatively fresh arriving there right?

Then think about when you go to Europe. You get there and you're eventually dead tired, because the trip has messed up your organic clock.

Both trips are of the same length, but the consequences of it are completely different.

I think the traveling is an annoyance for Western team, but not necessarily a disadvantage.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 02:26 PM
  #24
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post

Most East/West domination has been cyclical in sports if I recall correctly. Although I do agree the West has been better for more than just a 'cycle' when it comes to the NHL. Strong hockey minds have the ability to build superior rosters in hockey, which is also a factor in the West's dominance in my opinion.
The study itself mentions that the chances of this happening by coincidence in the NFL is 1 in 800. Imagine the odds of it happening in the NHL and NFL at the same time, like what we're seeing now. It's practically impossible.

It's not a coincidence, and it's not a cycle. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, nothing can be done about it.

Corky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-09-2014, 02:30 PM
  #25
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,840
vCash: 500
Chicago is in the Central Time Zone.

Boom. Theory blown.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.