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Gotta ask: Has Lavy worn them out?

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:04 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Maybe they haven't been playing on the edge because they are lacking passion and intensity because they have (basically, if not mathematically) had a playoff spot locked up for weeks?
Which is pathetic. If this is the character of the team it is highly unlikely they make it out of the 2nd rd against a good team.

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03-16-2011, 02:07 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Maybe they haven't been playing on the edge because they are lacking passion and intensity because they have (basically, if not mathematically) had a playoff spot locked up for weeks?
I hope so. It still seems that the lack of passion and effort is worrisome - even the players and coaches are giving head scratching answers for the reasons. I am trying to figure out why a group of veterans are having this problem. You would think Pittsburgh 2 points behind would give them the motivation, so......WTF is it? They won last night......they were.....how do I say this.....not good. I haven't watched them play a "Great game" in.....?

A good test week is coming. Stars Saturday, Caps Tuesday, Penguins Thursday. This week should show where we are. I will have my popcorn ready and beer in hand, I just hope I don't fall asleep or let my wife turn on her stories half way through. Seems that is the norm these days

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03-16-2011, 02:15 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Seems like your Cup hangover came a little later. Still hoping for the rematch though, that was a classic series through and through.
A few months ago I woke up from a nightmare in which Boston played Chicago in the SCF...I was assured by my significant other that this was in fact just a bad dream because Chicago wasn't going to make the playoffs...now that you are, here's to hoping my dream is not true and that you are correct.

I my bad dream is correct, I should probably start some sort of psychic-sports betting business

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:16 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
There is a difference between laying hits (which they still do, ex: Mez), and playing without discipline. You implied that they were suffering because they played with discipline.
I know what your saying Beef, it is hard to argue. Honestly, I have been like every other Flyer fan.....STAY OUT OF THE BOX, if only we could stop the stupid penalties. I am wondering if the discipline has taken away their edge?

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03-16-2011, 02:19 PM
  #130
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It definitely is perplexing how they seem to fall in this apathetic malaise during the season and right now it's not at the best time. To me some of the younger players are still maturing...this includes Richards. This is why Pronger calling out players like G for not bearing down is needed b/c Richards certainly isn't going to do it as the good cop which to be honest actually irritates me about him..he's not the best off-ice captain although he's among the most honest and hard working on the ice and still one of my favorites. I just really dislike him off the ice if that makes sense...Lindros bothered me like that too but not as much as Richards. Younger core overall needs a bit of an attitude adjustment still....

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03-16-2011, 02:25 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
It definitely is perplexing how they seem to fall in this apathetic malaise during the season and right now it's not at the best time. To me some of the younger players are still maturing...this includes Richards. This is why Pronger calling out players like G for not bearing down is needed b/c Richards certainly isn't going to do it as the good cop which to be honest actually irritates me about him..he's not the best off-ice captain although he's among the most honest and hard working on the ice and still one of my favorites. I just really dislike him off the ice if that makes sense...Lindros bothered me like that too but not as much as Richards. Younger core overall needs a bit of an attitude adjustment still....
Indeed, right - I think I've questioned Richards' as a leader one time and was basically lynched for it but I think you are spot on. If Pronger is calling out players (whether I agree or disagree with it) that means someone else isn't or someone else is not acknowledging it, that would be Richards. I am sure it is extremely hard for a young guy like Richards to have a veteran like Pronger sharing a locker room with him - between Pronger, Timonen and Briere - you have three former Captains who have all been in the league longer.

I also can see the point made above your post about discipline turning into apathy. The Flyers at their worst (and by worst I mean lack of system, Stevens as coach, etc) never looked so uninspired. You have to wonder if perhaps, playing with that edge, even when taking bad penalties, is the culture of the team and maybe by focusing too much on discipline, players are losing that part of their game which could just be their competitive edge.

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03-16-2011, 02:27 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I know what your saying Beef, it is hard to argue. Honestly, I have been like every other Flyer fan.....STAY OUT OF THE BOX, if only we could stop the stupid penalties. I am wondering if the discipline has taken away their edge?
I really don't think it has. I think they're just playing smarter.

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03-16-2011, 02:33 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I hope so. It still seems that the lack of passion and effort is worrisome - even the players and coaches are giving head scratching answers for the reasons. I am trying to figure out why a group of veterans are having this problem. You would think Pittsburgh 2 points behind would give them the motivation, so......WTF is it? They won last night......they were.....how do I say this.....not good. I haven't watched them play a "Great game" in.....?

A good test week is coming. Stars Saturday, Caps Tuesday, Penguins Thursday. This week should show where we are. I will have my popcorn ready and beer in hand, I just hope I don't fall asleep or let my wife turn on her stories half way through. Seems that is the norm these days
Are you really trying to figure this out? Look at how Hitch and Stevens both got sent packing, eventually the patients were trying to run the asylum. With Stevens they actually succeeded. This is about the core group on the team, the who most seem to have their jersey's on: Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This has been their MO for the past couple years. When they want to play as a group they can go as far as they want, but if they do not flip the switch people are subjected to wait until they flip the switch. Not the sign of a team who would want to become a dynasty, with the contracts they have the potential is there. Unfortunately we may just be stuck with a bunch of brooding 20-somethings who want to be rewarded for working a little harder at practice.

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03-16-2011, 02:38 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Are you really trying to figure this out? Look at how Hitch and Stevens both got sent packing, eventually the patients were trying to run the asylum. With Stevens they actually succeeded. This is about the core group on the team, the who most seem to have their jersey's on: Jeff Carter and Mike Richards.

This has been their MO for the past couple years. When they want to play as a group they can go as far as they want, but if they do not flip the switch people are subjected to wait until they flip the switch. Not the sign of a team who would want to become a dynasty, with the contracts they have the potential is there. Unfortunately we may just be stuck with a bunch of brooding 20-somethings who want to be rewarded for working a little harder at practice.
We should have let Carter go...everyone freak out. But I am serious. He has moments of "team" in his game but typically he has awful passing and plays for Carter. We have Richards, not sure why we needed both - I don't think it works having two franchise players who are the same age...why else do you think Carter gets an "A" on his jersey? I highly doubt he deserves it more than some of our veterans...but because we want him to feel as though we see him in the same fashion as Richards. Well we don't. They have two identities - Richards epitomizes the old NHL and Carter the new. We can't manage to base a franchise and a system around players who represent two different ideals while also managing to reward them with leadership roles.

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03-16-2011, 02:43 PM
  #135
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Imagine where we would be in the standings without the period of 2 weeks where Giroux and Carter alone had the team on their backs?

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03-16-2011, 02:45 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
We should have let Carter go...everyone freak out. But I am serious. He has moments of "team" in his game but typically he has awful passing and plays for Carter. We have Richards, not sure why we needed both - I don't think it works having two franchise players who are the same age...why else do you think Carter gets an "A" on his jersey? I highly doubt he deserves it more than some of our veterans...but because we want him to feel as though we see him in the same fashion as Richards. Well we don't. They have two identities - Richards epitomizes the old NHL and Carter the new. We can't manage to base a franchise and a system around players who represent two different ideals while also managing to reward them with leadership roles.
Better get your flame retardant jacket on.

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03-16-2011, 02:48 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Better get your flame retardant jacket on.
Nah, but a deal of Carter for Quick and J Williams(or Simmonds) would look pretty damn good right now.

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03-16-2011, 02:49 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Imagine where we would be in the standings without the period of 2 weeks where Giroux and Carter alone had the team on their backs?
Or the first two months with the HBL line. If they can pull their lines together at the right time they will be tough to beat.

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03-16-2011, 02:51 PM
  #139
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Richards has not been the problem in my book. Neither has Carter. If we have Richards and no Carter, this team is not nearly as good. If we have Carter and no Richards - ditto. I have no problem with the core of the team.

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03-16-2011, 02:55 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Richards has not been the problem in my book. Neither has Carter. If we have Richards and no Carter, this team is not nearly as good. If we have Carter and no Richards - ditto. I have no problem with the core of the team.
So who is to blame since the 2007-08 season when things have run their course like this? They are the only two who have been on the roster since that time and have now been established as the core group, both being given leadership roles on this team.

Is it Prongers fault for calling out poor Roo? Or the coach for overworking them when there seemed to be some complacency coming from the work ethic of the group? Your leaders need to be leading on the ice as well as off the ice, making sure they are prepared mentally and physically. I do not see that, and it is part of the problem with the organization giving so much leadership to guys who are still green to the league and winning at this level(see Pronger as an established leader).


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03-16-2011, 02:56 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Richards has not been the problem in my book. Neither has Carter. If we have Richards and no Carter, this team is not nearly as good. If we have Carter and no Richards - ditto. I have no problem with the core of the team.
No offense, but you also have a sunny disposition on everything about the team, so you're not exactly a baseline sample.

But yeah, this team has to have all of its big guns firing together to win anything of significance....as do most/all teams.

I'm really hoping this slump, long though it has been, is just a lack of focus. If they don't turn on when the playoffs start, though, I think it'll be time to examine the attitudes involved.

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03-16-2011, 02:59 PM
  #142
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A few months ago I woke up from a nightmare in which Boston played Chicago in the SCF...I was assured by my significant other that this was in fact just a bad dream because Chicago wasn't going to make the playoffs...now that you are, here's to hoping my dream is not true and that you are correct.

I my bad dream is correct, I should probably start some sort of psychic-sports betting business
Either way I guess, lol. I'd love to see the Hawks beat Boston because they have such crybaby spoiled fans in all sports, but I like the matchup vs. Philly because it would be way more exciting than facing a defensive team. Fire against fire. I probably have 5 posts total on other teams boards and rarely read them, but I've been following you guys closely this year.

Observations:
-Picking up Versteeg was pointless because the Flyers already had plenty of scoring and he commits a lot of bad turnovers.
-Mez was a huge pickup and is the reason you guys will probably be back in the finals this year. The Flyers defense is very impressive.
-Goaltending could be a problem, not sold on Bob but he obviously has a lot of poise given the circumstances of his career path. His technique is poor and it's clear he hasn't had much quality coaching so far, but on the flip side, he has all the physical tools and reflexes to be a very good goalie. Flyers D needs to shelter him in the playoffs.
-Not sure how often your guys lines have changed but I'd be playing Giroux with Hartnell and Carter. Richards with Briere and Leino.
-Don't play Boynton

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03-16-2011, 03:00 PM
  #143
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Imagine where we would be in the standings without the period of 2 weeks where Giroux and Carter alone had the team on their backs?
Yes in the regular season that is commendable but come playoff time you need to bear down even more and that is what Pronger and veterans are trying to get across to people like G in particular..don't know if they have a problem with Carter since he's not turnover prone..with him it's just about consistently getting involved and paying the price which he has shown of late and hopefully he does carry it over. This is why Pronger made the comment about "people not getting it" or whatever. Just b/c you can get away with it more in the regular season doesn't mean you should not work on getting rid of bad habits.

Now that the season has gotten into a stage where the game has picked up you see how not being responsible bites you in the ass and that is what leaders like Pronger are trying to point out even if his delivery is like sand paper to some....Richards is more about honey but that buddy crap is fine to a certain point...as a leader and captain you have to be willing to call people out and accept more responsibility. I know if I call people out I make sure I can pull my own weight too so I don't look like a hypocrite....Richards obviously can pull his own weight on the ice so he needs to learn to ass kick vs kiss a bit more to be a more effective leader and captain...b/c we know lots of our vets like Pronger only have a few years anyway.

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03-16-2011, 03:02 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Which is pathetic. If this is the character of the team it is highly unlikely they make it out of the 2nd rd against a good team.
This is the first real rut they've had all year... it happens to EVERY good team, every year.

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03-16-2011, 03:02 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
We should have let Carter go...everyone freak out. But I am serious. He has moments of "team" in his game but typically he has awful passing and plays for Carter. We have Richards, not sure why we needed both - I don't think it works having two franchise players who are the same age...why else do you think Carter gets an "A" on his jersey? I highly doubt he deserves it more than some of our veterans...but because we want him to feel as though we see him in the same fashion as Richards. Well we don't. They have two identities - Richards epitomizes the old NHL and Carter the new. We can't manage to base a franchise and a system around players who represent two different ideals while also managing to reward them with leadership roles.
Kane/Toews, Malkin/Crosby, Perry/Getzlaf (better comparison)...seems to have worked for all of those guys.

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03-16-2011, 03:05 PM
  #146
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Kane/Toews, Malkin/Crosby, Perry/Getzlaf (better comparison)...seems to have worked for all of those guys.
Keith and Fleury are also pretty big cornerstones for their teams in the same age brackets. Keith is, arguably, franchise status...and Fleury has been made such by the Penguins.

So having more than one key player in the same age group is definitely not a problem...if anything, it's a boon.

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03-16-2011, 03:06 PM
  #147
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This is the first real rut they've had all year... it happens to EVERY good team, every year.
we had a short one before X mas, but the point still stands

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03-16-2011, 03:06 PM
  #148
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Kane/Toews, Malkin/Crosby, Perry/Getzlaf (better comparison)...seems to have worked for all of those guys.
You are comparing lottery picks essentially with very good first mid to late rounders. Kind of not the same.

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03-16-2011, 03:13 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
You are comparing lottery picks essentially with very good first mid to late rounders. Kind of not the same.
Perry and Getzlaf are both from the same draft as Carter and Richards and both were picked AFTER Carter, and Perry was AFTER Richards

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03-16-2011, 03:14 PM
  #150
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This is the first real rut they've had all year... it happens to EVERY good team, every year.
I am not complaining, believe me, much better than in years past. But the recent play is a bit concerning, this has been an issue since around Christmas, but they have won a lot of talent alone. That is not going to fly in the playoffs.

The last two is the most glaring. Standings are tight, after losing a 3rd period 3 goal lead twice, they come out flat against a poor Panthers team.

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