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Old
03-17-2011, 10:30 AM
  #101
Stanford
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and just for the record, i don't really have a problem with Schopp/Bulldog/Bauch when it comes to their opinions. I don't listen to the morning show (same forumla) or the nationals.

I think for the most part, Schopp's opinions are often obsessively pinpointed and overly well-thought-out, and that's why when someone opposes him, he gets seemingly defensive and irrational in his responses. Though in his defense, he's usually met with REALLY poor and inane arguements which has been admitted already in this thread. I think it frustrates him that he formulates these elaborate discussions, only to have callers drool all over it with typical fanboy ignorance and rationale, yet at the same time, he knows he has to cater to his listeners. Its definitely not the same WNSA Schopp. He was fantastic back then, though he was solo (with Steve Cicchon on the board / Haseoke), so i think it gave his full reign to do whatever HE wanted, which is probably when he's at his best. Not saying Bulldog brings him down, but he has to play into that opposing mentality (see Schopp and the Coach)...

Bulldog is a stammering mess most of the time, he's not a music expert by any means, but he's a super great dude. Sometimes, i think he's a very good opposite to Schopp, especially when he occasionally stands up to Schopp and opposes him, cuz that usually means he's right. Again, i think he's better by himself.

so spades and black kettles, its an entertainment show about sports. In a city like Buffalo, especially between June and August, its all you can be, and you settle into that. At least the Fan590 can talk about... the Blue Jays?

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03-17-2011, 10:44 AM
  #102
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One thing in Parker's defense is that he won the WBEN fan contest to cohost a sports show back in the day -- he really is just a guy like most of us who wasn't a broadcasting major or someone with experience. I think he still defers a bit too much to people who have that background.

And yes, the quality of the calls is low and makes for a tough listen, at least for me. How many "So and so is overpaid/overrated, play random-AHLer or scrub player because they'll be so much better" calls can someone endure?

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03-17-2011, 11:09 AM
  #103
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I think it says a lot about Schopp that he's often stated that his favorite time to do the show is during the summer between the end of the hockey season and the beginning of football. I think his interest is in doing a variety-type entertainment show with a slant towards sports rather than the other way around. During the summer they can get away with that more.

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03-17-2011, 11:28 AM
  #104
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that's weird. I seem to recall him saying the exact opposite, that its difficult to do a show between our teams' season because, well, there's NOTHING to talk about except baseball and stupid preliminary football practices that mean nothing.

it sure woulda been nice if Bob Rich hadn't backed out of the MLB deal way back. I dunno if we really could've supported a major league team, but seeing as there's nothing else going on in the summer except the occasional food or art festival, maybe? at least it would've been good for radio.

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03-17-2011, 01:12 PM
  #105
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Could this be a possibility???

The call screener needs to be much much better at his job. If the hosts are getting soooooo annoyed at callers, the screener isn't doing his/her job. The call screeners for a few national shows are much better (it seems). It can't be THAT impossible to field quality takes and put it on the air. Sure the occasional idiot slips thru, but it's like 1 in 10. Wgr seems like it's 1 in 3 calls are bad.
Wgr Get your S*** together and try being real picky and selective for about 3 months and see how the quality of calls will get better.
Therefore less reason for Schoop to be such a @#%&$. Bulldog just needs to stop the stuttering!

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03-17-2011, 01:19 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
that's weird. I seem to recall him saying the exact opposite, that its difficult to do a show between our teams' season because, well, there's NOTHING to talk about except baseball and stupid preliminary football practices that mean nothing.

it sure woulda been nice if Bob Rich hadn't backed out of the MLB deal way back. I dunno if we really could've supported a major league team, but seeing as there's nothing else going on in the summer except the occasional food or art festival, maybe? at least it would've been good for radio.
I dunno, I've heard him say that people ask him how he does it during the off season and he says that he loves doing it then, because they can talk about whatever and it's more relaxed.

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03-17-2011, 01:49 PM
  #107
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Could this be a possibility???

The call screener needs to be much much better at his job. If the hosts are getting soooooo annoyed at callers, the screener isn't doing his/her job. The call screeners for a few national shows are much better (it seems). It can't be THAT impossible to field quality takes and put it on the air. Sure the occasional idiot slips thru, but it's like 1 in 10. Wgr seems like it's 1 in 3 calls are bad.
Wgr Get your S*** together and try being real picky and selective for about 3 months and see how the quality of calls will get better.
Therefore less reason for Schoop to be such a @#%&$. Bulldog just needs to stop the stuttering!

Well, I'm not convinced they don't want these people calling in to give them easy punching bags.

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03-17-2011, 08:34 PM
  #108
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I think for the most part, Schopp's opinions are often obsessively pinpointed and overly well-thought-out
Well yeah. That's his job. He's doing his homework before every show, and most people who call in most likely think about what they want to say 5 minutes before they call into the screener.

I think what I take most take offense to is a guy says something Schopp disagrees with, and while the person is trying to explain their point he is constantly interrupted. Heck...just a year or two ago he would just hang up on callers. I'd rather have him do that than skewer a guy on live radio for not having a well thought out opinion. And Bulldog just sits there, and you can tell he's uncomfortable with the situation but he's too much of a wimp to say anything.

In fact, it's just dumb to have a radio show where you have callers when your opinion is already formulated and solidified. So why bother?

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03-17-2011, 08:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Couple of things

1) In what universe are those stations direct competition for a sport talks station? In fact WBEN is owned by the same company as WGR and they specifically changed its format to remove it as a direct competitor to WGR. If someopne wants to listen to sports talk they are tuning in WGR. Not those other stations.


2) Sports fans in the Buffalo area have had years of much broader and better coverage of sports. Having more of that type of talk will hardly reduce WGR's listeners.

3) Do you really think someone thats a sports fan listening to WGR for sports talk will turn away because there is sports talk going on?


If WGR started, for example, talking to the beat reporters from the local papers of the team the Sabres play that night for a segment. Or if they recreated the Sharpshooters. A show that was on WNSA that talked hockey with Roby and Jim Kelley from 4-6 on Sabres game days during the week. Do you actually think thats going make sports fans listening to WGR mad and want to change the channel? They can't possibly be that passionate about the food drafts.
The universe in which radios receive multiple frequencies, have buttons and dials that allow users to exercise choice in the frequency to which they listen and multiple media outlets compete for the same demographic of listeners.

For better or worse, I'm aware of the ownership of BEN, GR, the now decade-old format change, etc. The problem with point 1 of your response is that you assume that sports radio listeners listen only to sports radio. I'm not going to waste time explaining how flawed that assumption is, but . . . without getting too much into media nuts and bolts, the company that measures ratings typically informs subscribers, i.e., radio stations, of the other stations their listeners patronize. For example, Kiss listeners also tune in Z101, WBLK, etc. 97 Rock listeners get bored and go to the Edge, GR, WYRK, etc. The same thing happens with GR listeners (although I'm sure they wish their listener loyalty provided otherwise!). Your point about BEN and GR operating under one umbrella is obviously accurate, but if I'm a station manager or talent and have a bonus riding on top 1, 2 or 3 in the market in my daypart, or simply want to keep my job, it matters to me which Entercom station John O'Smith from South Buffalo hears.

With respect to your points ##2 and 3, the question whether broader talk will reduce GR's listeners depends on the nature of the talk. Sharpshooters is a thoughtful and credible idea, but the points I have addressed in this thread included thoughts about segments with a D&C writer or a hockey prospects feature. In a way, GR does some Sharpshooter-type stuff through their segments with Sullivan, Robitaille, John Clayton, Peter King, etc. Still, a "new" Sharpshooters is a good, practical thought. Out of market minor league talk is not.

With respect solely to point #3, listeners are fickle. Bad segment, bad song, dead air = fewer listeners. I don't listen to WGR for any reason other than sports talk/updates, and if the program bores me or I hear too many callers who seem to specialize in getting drunk by noon on a weekday, I'll turn to 102 out of TO, turn my iPod on, check out NPR, etc.

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03-18-2011, 03:57 PM
  #110
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sigh.

case in point, Bulldog is by himself today, and a caller named Rob calls up and is so inane, he can't push discernable words out of his sandwich-filled mouth, and Bulldog is supposed to follow that up? (which he does, admirably, with a load of filler). Luckily they're having a discussion about Hasek, not anything current.

I'd cringe every time i had to push the call button.

Yes the call screener is supposed to screen calls better, but if they actually turned people away, they wouldn't have a radio show, now would they?

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03-18-2011, 04:59 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
And the main broadcasters that made it that way: Howard Simon and Michael Schopp, who so "arrogantly", as many people here would put it, named his show "Sports Talk for Smart People". And i believe half the reason Schopp named his show as such was because Coach Dickerson had a show that was the polar opposite. Stupidity refined.
Schopp was a much better host on WNSA. Due in large part to the amount of quality guests he had on.

I still like Howard Simon and his show isn't that far removed from what it was pre-WGR.


But you've some what missed my point if you think WNSA is all I'm referencing. WBEN had great sports talk for quite a long time starting with Stan Baron then John Murphy took over in the mid 80s to Howard Simon to even Bulldog (though obviously not as good as the others). WNSA carried on the WBEN tradition of smart sports talk.


Smart and well rounded sports talk was an option for years until WGR had the market to themselves.

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But when you have no real competition, you have no incentive to improve. Its why Buffalo has voted in a Democratic mayor and leadership for the last 30+ years (essentially the last 50 save for 4 years)... there's a miniscule Republican/Independent registered votership. Yet where the hell are we going as a city? Not saying the other party would be better, but wouldn't you at least want to listen to the other side if we've done nothing but drop in population for half a century, which just HAPPENS TO BE the exact same amount of time we've been lead by one party?

sorry. just saying. And i'm a registered Dem. wtf.


go sabres.
I agree

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03-18-2011, 07:07 PM
  #112
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Yes the call screener is supposed to screen calls better, but if they actually turned people away, they wouldn't have a radio show, now would they?
Sure they would. Schopp likes to hear himself talk, and he's going to make the points he wants to make. I think the only reason he takes calls is because it's required of him and he's hoping people will call in only to say they agree. I've never seen him agree with a differing opinion, even if empirical evidence is presented. The guy is either a classic narcissist or thinks the callers are beneath him. Take your pick.

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03-18-2011, 07:29 PM
  #113
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The universe in which radios receive multiple frequencies, have buttons and dials that allow users to exercise choice in the frequency to which they listen and multiple media outlets compete for the same demographic of listeners.
And in that universe where do they tune for sports talk in Buffalo? Are you remotely familiar with the idea of DIRECT competitor? In a general sense all radio stations are in competition for listeners. But within that there are direct competitors that have similar formats. (you actually touch on that later in your post). There isn't a local direct competitor for WGR in the sports talk field..

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For better or worse, I'm aware of the ownership of BEN, GR, the now decade-old format change, etc. The problem with point 1 of your response is that you assume that sports radio listeners listen only to sports radio. I'm not going to waste time explaining how flawed that assumption is, but . . .

I assumed no such thing. So its a good thing you didn't waste your time explaining how flawed that assumption is. At no point have I argued that people that listen to sports radio only listen to sports radio.

What I said was, if someone in Buffalo wants to listen to sports talk. They are going to tune in WGR, the local sports talk station, not 97rock, WBEN or 103.3.

How do you go from that to asserting I think everyone that listens to sports talk only listens to sports talk.

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without getting too much into media nuts and bolts, the company that measures ratings typically informs subscribers, i.e., radio stations, of the other stations their listeners patronize. For example, Kiss listeners also tune in Z101, WBLK, etc. 97 Rock listeners get bored and go to the Edge, GR, WYRK, etc. The same thing happens with GR listeners (although I'm sure they wish their listener loyalty provided otherwise!).
You actually helped my point a bit. It appears you do understand the idea that different radios stations are DIRECT compettiors to others. Like your posting KISS listeners will go to WBLK or 101.1. Why not 103.3 or 97 rock?

Btw why do you assume everyone that listens to Kiss wouldn't want to listen to 97rock

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Your point about BEN and GR operating under one umbrella is obviously accurate but if I'm a station manager or talent and have a bonus riding on top 1, 2 or 3 in the market in my daypart, or simply want to keep my job, it matters to me which Entercom station John O'Smith from South Buffalo hears
Entercom has things set up for WBEN to be their top dog on the radio and their revenue engine. Its consistantly one of the top rated stations (usually #1 or 2 in the market). Whereas WGR is on the fringes of top 10 in the Buffalo/Niagara area.

WGR audience and ratings are completely driven by sports. To further this point; their ratings for the last 5 quarters.

Fall 2009 ------> 4.8
Winter 2010 ---> 3.9
Spring 2010 ---> 3.0
Summer 2010 -> 2.4
Fall 2010 ------> 4.8

That pattern is pretty much the same every year. When the Bills season is rolling along and the Sabres are starting up in the fall. WGR has its best ratings. Then they drop a bit when the Bills stop playing in the winter and drop further when the Sabres stop playing to their lows in the summer. They they crank back up again in the fall.

WGR in the time frame I showed ratings for was highest in the fall (#8 in fall 2009/#9 in fall 2010) and as low as 12th (summer 2010). Even in the fall, when WGR is getting its best ratings, its still no where near WBEN. Their ratings for those 5 periods I listed where 10.8, 8.7, 8.8, 9.3 and 8.8. They were either 1st or 2nd in the market every one of those ratings. http://www.stationratings.com/ratings.asp?market=37


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With respect to your points ##2 and 3, the question whether broader talk will reduce GR's listeners depends on the nature of the talk. Sharpshooters is a thoughtful and credible idea, but the points I have addressed in this thread included thoughts about segments with a D&C writer or a hockey prospects feature. In a way, GR does some Sharpshooter-type stuff through their segments with Sullivan, Robitaille, John Clayton, Peter King, etc. Still, a "new" Sharpshooters is a good, practical thought. Out of market minor league talk is not.
I agree on King, Clayton and Roby. In fact during the football season WGR does a good job of bringing a lot of different voices to talk football in general and the Bills in particular. They have football Monday as well as lots of football oriented guests throughout the week.


I think your getting too hung up on the ratings impact of a segment on AHL hockey for example. If they had a 20min segment with the Porland Pirates beat writer talking about the Sabres prospects in Portland and the AHL in general. I don't think they would have listeners tuning to other stations.

Another example of something that WBEN/WNSA used to due was having a segment on college basketball once a week. They would usually have one of the local college coaches on to discuss the locall and national hoops scene. Then when the NCAA tourney rolled around. They would have all of them on and discuss the teams and bracktes for a few segments

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With respect solely to point #3, listeners are fickle. Bad segment, bad song, dead air = fewer listeners. I don't listen to WGR for any reason other than sports talk/updates, and if the program bores me or I hear too many callers who seem to specialize in getting drunk by noon on a weekday, I'll turn to 102 out of TO, turn my iPod on, check out NPR, etc.
Exactly and thats the norm for their listeners. When someone tunes in to WGR its to listen to SPORTS talk. As their ratings show. So its hard for me to believe they will be turned off by SPORTS talk.


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03-18-2011, 10:03 PM
  #114
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seriously, I tune in to listen to talk about the sabres and maybe get some news and updates about the team, such as injuries, quotes, and to hear some fans call in and give their opinions, and I feel like they have their finger on the hang-up button right when the person starts to talk so that in case they don't like the OPINION (key word) they can just hang up and they always make sure to get the last word because they just rudely hang up on the person who has been waiting 20 minutes to get on the air.....A few years ago I called the show toward the end of the presidents trophy season and they were looking so good and there was a great vibe in the city about the sabres, and I called just to say that it's been a long time since a sports teams has gotten my family so excited and compliment the team, and they dismissed me because they thought that I needed more of a reason to call and they hung up on me and were like "well yeah obviously they are doing well, people tend to be happier when they win" when I was trying get them to comment on whther or not they have seen so many fans so excited before....It just pissed me off, they are so dismissive and they even seem to get annoyed when people call in and ask how they are doing like its some kind of annoyance to them to have to say "good"

seriously, I want to hear buffalo people talk about buffalo sports and I don't need to hear when they draft mustard in the condiment draft and 10 opinions in a row on other ***** and how Bulldog falls asleep during certain t.v shows and games.....I guess I feel like they dont respect their own jobs and definitely dont respect fans and callers opinions. It's amazing how much they admit to not knowing or caring about certain things too.

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03-18-2011, 11:32 PM
  #115
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And in that universe where do they tune for sports talk in Buffalo? Are you remotely familiar with the idea of DIRECT competitor? In a general sense all radio stations are in competition for listeners. But within that there are direct competitors that have similar formats. (you actually touch on that later in your post). There isn't a local direct competitor for WGR in the sports talk field..




I assumed no such thing. So its a good thing you didn't waste your time explaining how flawed that assumption is. At no point have I argued that people that listen to sports radio only listen to sports radio.

What I said was, if someone in Buffalo wants to listen to sports talk. They are going to tune in WGR, the local sports talk station, not 97rock, WBEN or 103.3.

How do you go from that to asserting I think everyone that listens to sports talk only listens to sports talk.



You actually helped my point a bit. It appears you do understand the idea that different radios stations are DIRECT compettiors to others. Like your posting KISS listeners will go to WBLK or 101.1. Why not 103.3 or 97 rock?

Btw why do you assume everyone that listens to Kiss wouldn't want to listen to 97rock



Entercom has things set up for WBEN to be their top dog on the radio and their revenue engine. Its consistantly one of the top rated stations (usually #1 or 2 in the market). Whereas WGR is on the fringes of top 10 in the Buffalo/Niagara area.

WGR audience and ratings are completely driven by sports. To further this point; their ratings for the last 5 quarters.

Fall 2009 ------> 4.8
Winter 2010 ---> 3.9
Spring 2010 ---> 3.0
Summer 2010 -> 2.4
Fall 2010 ------> 4.8

That pattern is pretty much the same every year. When the Bills season is rolling along and the Sabres are starting up in the fall. WGR has its best ratings. Then they drop a bit when the Bills stop playing in the winter and drop further when the Sabres stop playing to their lows in the summer. They they crank back up again in the fall.

WGR in the time frame I showed ratings for was highest in the fall (#8 in fall 2009/#9 in fall 2010) and as low as 12th (summer 2010). Even in the fall, when WGR is getting its best ratings, its still no where near WBEN. Their ratings for those 5 periods I listed where 10.8, 8.7, 8.8, 9.3 and 8.8. They were either 1st or 2nd in the market every one of those ratings. http://www.stationratings.com/ratings.asp?market=37




I agree on King, Clayton and Roby. In fact during the football season WGR does a good job of bringing a lot of different voices to talk football in general and the Bills in particular. They have football Monday as well as lots of football oriented guests throughout the week.


I think your getting too hung up on the ratings impact of a segment on AHL hockey for example. If they had a 20min segment with the Porland Pirates beat writer talking about the Sabres prospects in Portland and the AHL in general. I don't think they would have listeners tuning to other stations.

Another example of something that WBEN/WNSA used to due was having a segment on college basketball once a week. They would usually have one of the local college coaches on to discuss the locall and national hoops scene. Then when the NCAA tourney rolled around. They would have all of them on and discuss the teams and bracktes for a few segments



Exactly and thats the norm for their listeners. When someone tunes in to WGR its to listen to SPORTS talk. As their ratings show. So its hard for me to believe they will be turned off by SPORTS talk.
I have often found you to be an insightful and intelligent poster. I can't say that I agree with much of what you have to say on this issue, but I enjoy discussing this topic because it brings me back to the nostalgia of a past life.

In any event, I'm going to touch on three things.

First, your assumption lies in what I perceive to be your belief (based on the aforementioned "universe" comment) that GR doesn't have direct radio competition for its target audience. Sports talk listeners are generally 25-54 year old males, as are 97 Rock listeners, WBEN listeners, WYRK listeners and to a certain extent Edge listeners. Those listeners have options, and they're going to migrate between stations based on, among other things, quality of content. Whether you want to believe it or not, a talker and a music station can be and often are direct competitors. For example, I'm not very familiar with national buys, but my understanding is that a lot of the national big boys (I'm thinking Wal-Mart to the extent they do radio; not sure if they do) will as a rule only buy radio from the #1 station in the demo in the market. If the demo is 25-54 persons, the market leader is often WYRK, but can be WBEN if it's political season or we have a series of big storms or other local events of note that drive people to newsradio.

Second, the cyclical nature of WGR's ratings is obvious. I don't see the point in brining it up. I don't dispute that WBEN prints most of the money at Entercom Buffalo, and that WGR has more bait with which to fish in books other than summer, but I don't see how that has anything to do with my point that you always want to catch as many fish as you can when given the opportunity. I'll use a different cluster as an example. Citadel might not be too worried whether a listener tunes in 97 Rock or WHTT, but I can guarantee you it matters to the talent on each of those stations. If poaching between stations in the same cluster becomes a problem (such as with 97 Rock and WHTT or 97 Rock and the Edge in the Citadel cluster), stations within the cluster can be and often are marketed as a package.

Third, I'm not in the business of telling others how to argue their points, but if you're going to talk ratings, I wouldn't quote 12+ and I especially wouldn't use the link you did to discuss WGR's numbers. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at the page you linked to, but I think it's a 12+ persons report, and I'll leave it at that.

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03-18-2011, 11:45 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
And in that universe where do they tune for sports talk in Buffalo? Are you remotely familiar with the idea of DIRECT competitor? In a general sense all radio stations are in competition for listeners. But within that there are direct competitors that have similar formats. (you actually touch on that later in your post). There isn't a local direct competitor for WGR in the sports talk field..




I assumed no such thing. So its a good thing you didn't waste your time explaining how flawed that assumption is. At no point have I argued that people that listen to sports radio only listen to sports radio.

What I said was, if someone in Buffalo wants to listen to sports talk. They are going to tune in WGR, the local sports talk station, not 97rock, WBEN or 103.3.

How do you go from that to asserting I think everyone that listens to sports talk only listens to sports talk.



You actually helped my point a bit. It appears you do understand the idea that different radios stations are DIRECT compettiors to others. Like your posting KISS listeners will go to WBLK or 101.1. Why not 103.3 or 97 rock?

Btw why do you assume everyone that listens to Kiss wouldn't want to listen to 97rock



Entercom has things set up for WBEN to be their top dog on the radio and their revenue engine. Its consistantly one of the top rated stations (usually #1 or 2 in the market). Whereas WGR is on the fringes of top 10 in the Buffalo/Niagara area.

WGR audience and ratings are completely driven by sports. To further this point; their ratings for the last 5 quarters.

Fall 2009 ------> 4.8
Winter 2010 ---> 3.9
Spring 2010 ---> 3.0
Summer 2010 -> 2.4
Fall 2010 ------> 4.8

That pattern is pretty much the same every year. When the Bills season is rolling along and the Sabres are starting up in the fall. WGR has its best ratings. Then they drop a bit when the Bills stop playing in the winter and drop further when the Sabres stop playing to their lows in the summer. They they crank back up again in the fall.

WGR in the time frame I showed ratings for was highest in the fall (#8 in fall 2009/#9 in fall 2010) and as low as 12th (summer 2010). Even in the fall, when WGR is getting its best ratings, its still no where near WBEN. Their ratings for those 5 periods I listed where 10.8, 8.7, 8.8, 9.3 and 8.8. They were either 1st or 2nd in the market every one of those ratings. http://www.stationratings.com/ratings.asp?market=37




I agree on King, Clayton and Roby. In fact during the football season WGR does a good job of bringing a lot of different voices to talk football in general and the Bills in particular. They have football Monday as well as lots of football oriented guests throughout the week.


I think your getting too hung up on the ratings impact of a segment on AHL hockey for example. If they had a 20min segment with the Porland Pirates beat writer talking about the Sabres prospects in Portland and the AHL in general. I don't think they would have listeners tuning to other stations.

Another example of something that WBEN/WNSA used to due was having a segment on college basketball once a week. They would usually have one of the local college coaches on to discuss the locall and national hoops scene. Then when the NCAA tourney rolled around. They would have all of them on and discuss the teams and bracktes for a few segments



Exactly and thats the norm for their listeners. When someone tunes in to WGR its to listen to SPORTS talk. As their ratings show. So its hard for me to believe they will be turned off by SPORTS talk.
One more thing, and I'm actually serious about this. Pitch the idea to Brad Riter at WECK. He's crazy if he does it, but it's not like they have a whole lot of ears to lose anyhow. He's looking to be "different," and this and some of the other things that have been floated are very creative. I'm sticking to my guns that none of the minor league and college stuff that's been discussed will work, but then again if there's a station that's looking for creative, "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" ideas, it's WECK.

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03-22-2011, 01:49 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SabresFan79 View Post
I have often found you to be an insightful and intelligent poster. I can't say that I agree with much of what you have to say on this issue, but I enjoy discussing this topic because it brings me back to the nostalgia of a past life.

In any event, I'm going to touch on three things.

First, your assumption lies in what I perceive to be your belief (based on the aforementioned "universe" comment) that GR doesn't have direct radio competition for its target audience. Sports talk listeners are generally 25-54 year old males, as are 97 Rock listeners, WBEN listeners, WYRK listeners and to a certain extent Edge listeners. Those listeners have options, and they're going to migrate between stations based on, among other things, quality of content. Whether you want to believe it or not, a talker and a music station can be and often are direct competitors. For example, I'm not very familiar with national buys, but my understanding is that a lot of the national big boys (I'm thinking Wal-Mart to the extent they do radio; not sure if they do) will as a rule only buy radio from the #1 station in the demo in the market. If the demo is 25-54 persons, the market leader is often WYRK, but can be WBEN if it's political season or we have a series of big storms or other local events of note that drive people to newsradio.

You seem too lost in competition theory and the generic radio market to see the specific realities here.


Why does a listener tune in to WGR?

To get info on the Bills, Sabres and sports in general. If that person wants that kind of info, they are NOT going to tune into any of the other stations you listed.

So when I say WGR has a monopoly thats what I'm refering to. Anyone in the demo you reference that wants info on the Bills, Sabres or sports talk generally is going to tune to WGR to get it. I'm not saying they are going to keep listening after they tune it in. But I am saying thats where they are going to go for that type of programming and no where else. On this WGR really doesn't have compettion.


Quote:
Second, the cyclical nature of WGR's ratings is obvious. I don't see the point in brining it up. I don't dispute that WBEN prints most of the money at Entercom Buffalo, and that WGR has more bait with which to fish in books other than summer, but I don't see how that has anything to do with my point that you always want to catch as many fish as you can when given the opportunity.

I've argued that WGR's audience is tuning in for Bills, Sabres and general sports talk. To further make this point I showed their cyclical ratings.

They are not tuning in for food drafts and the other non-sports nonsense on WGR. If those things actually drove the ratings you wouldn't see the same cyclical drop offs in listeners every quarter before surging again in the fall.

To add to that sports talk in Buffalo is never going to be top dog. Its the nature of the market and the topic. Its a niche market.

WGR ratings have been roughly the same since WNSA went under and they've owned the sports talk market.

You've tried to argue this false pardigm that WGR needs things like the food draft et al to maintain its ratings. But you've argued nothing that supports this assertion. Nor have you made a compelling case that intelligent sports talk wil hurt WGR's ratings.

In fact WNSA generally beat WGR in the ratings with that very formula.

Quote:
I'll use a different cluster as an example. Citadel might not be too worried whether a listener tunes in 97 Rock or WHTT, but I can guarantee you it matters to the talent on each of those stations. If poaching between stations in the same cluster becomes a problem (such as with 97 Rock and WHTT or 97 Rock and the Edge in the Citadel cluster), stations within the cluster can be and often are marketed as a package.

Which is irrelevant since the talent has no say on the general format of their station or their shows. Its up to the owners.

The primary battle in Buffalo radio for ad dollars is between Entercom, Citadel and Townsquare and the station packages they put together. They position their various stations to maximize revenue. Its why Entercom has basically gutted WWKB down to a shell of its former self. Its also why WGR also has gotten streamlined over the years. They no longer have a night host, they only have one beat reporter for the Bills and Sabres (Paul Hamilton). and only have 8hrs of local programming (Howard Simon's show 6-10 and Schopp/Bulldog 3-7).

The problem here is you keep asserting that there is actually fair competition between these stations. Or that their corporate parents incourage competition bewteen their varies entities. Thats not the case what so ever. Each media giant has a cash cow station or two. Then they streamline the other stations as much as possible to make money off them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A few extra points

-Sports talk is a niche market that can only go so far with its ratings. Because of this WGR is never going to be a threat to the top stations in Buffalo/Niagara with its current format.

-WNSA usually won the ratings battle between WNSA and WGR when they were going head to head. They did it with an intelligent sports talk format.

-WGR's current ratings are roughly equivilant to WNSA's + WGR's back when they were going head to head.


The sports talk audience in the Buffalo/Niagara market is pretty static. After WNSA's demise those listeners just migrated over to WGR. WGR hasn't really added any listeners nor have the lost any listeners from the general sports talk market. The amount of sports talk listeners is roughly the same as it was back in 2000 when WGR went all talk and they competed with WNSA.


Last edited by joshjull: 03-22-2011 at 02:38 PM.
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03-22-2011, 02:13 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SabresFan79 View Post
One more thing, and I'm actually serious about this. Pitch the idea to Brad Riter at WECK. He's crazy if he does it, but it's not like they have a whole lot of ears to lose anyhow. He's looking to be "different," and this and some of the other things that have been floated are very creative. I'm sticking to my guns that none of the minor league and college stuff that's been discussed will work, but then again if there's a station that's looking for creative, "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" ideas, it's WECK.
Will work at what?


WGR is in a static niche market thats unlikely to go up or down very much if they had more intelligent sports talk.

I'm talking about them improving their programming not their ratings. Their ratings are captive to the niche they are in and when the Bills and Sabres are in action.


Speaking of Brad Riter. He was recently named WECK's program director and as such has declared war (his words not mine) on WGR and Entercom.

Here is Brad Riter's WECK manifesto http://www.weck1230.com/briter/2011/02/weck-manifesto/

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03-22-2011, 05:20 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Will work at what?


WGR is in a static niche market thats unlikely to go up or down very much if they had more intelligent sports talk.

I'm talking about them improving their programming not their ratings. Their ratings are captive to the niche they are in and when the Bills and Sabres are in action.


Speaking of Brad Riter. He was recently named WECK's program director and as such has declared war (his words not mine) on WGR and Entercom.

Here is Brad Riter's WECK manifesto http://www.weck1230.com/briter/2011/02/weck-manifesto/
I like what Riter is saying here. Anyone know if it's possible to listen to WECK on an android phone? I mostly listen to WGR just because of their app.

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03-22-2011, 07:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You seem too lost in competition theory and the generic radio market to see the specific realities here.


Why does a listener tune in to WGR?

To get info on the Bills, Sabres and sports in general. If that person wants that kind of info, they are NOT going to tune into any of the other stations you listed.

So when I say WGR has a monopoly thats what I'm refering to. Anyone in the demo you reference that wants info on the Bills, Sabres or sports talk generally is going to tune to WGR to get it. I'm not saying they are going to keep listening after they tune it in. But I am saying thats where they are going to go for that type of programming and no where else. On this WGR really doesn't have compettion.





I've argued that WGR's audience is tuning in for Bills, Sabres and general sports talk. To further make this point I showed their cyclical ratings.

They are not tuning in for food drafts and the other non-sports nonsense on WGR. If those things actually drove the ratings you wouldn't see the same cyclical drop offs in listeners every quarter before surging again in the fall.

To add to that sports talk in Buffalo is never going to be top dog. Its the nature of the market and the topic. Its a niche market.

WGR ratings have been roughly the same since WNSA went under and they've owned the sports talk market.

You've tried to argue this false pardigm that WGR needs things like the food draft et al to maintain its ratings. But you've argued nothing that supports this assertion. Nor have you made a compelling case that intelligent sports talk wil hurt WGR's ratings.

In fact WNSA generally beat WGR in the ratings with that very formula.




Which is irrelevant since the talent has no say on the general format of their station or their shows. Its up to the owners.

The primary battle in Buffalo radio for ad dollars is between Entercom, Citadel and Townsquare and the station packages they put together. They position their various stations to maximize revenue. Its why Entercom has basically gutted WWKB down to a shell of its former self. Its also why WGR also has gotten streamlined over the years. They no longer have a night host, they only have one beat reporter for the Bills and Sabres (Paul Hamilton). and only have 8hrs of local programming (Howard Simon's show 6-10 and Schopp/Bulldog 3-7).

The problem here is you keep asserting that there is actually fair competition between these stations. Or that their corporate parents incourage competition bewteen their varies entities. Thats not the case what so ever. Each media giant has a cash cow station or two. Then they streamline the other stations as much as possible to make money off them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A few extra points

-Sports talk is a niche market that can only go so far with its ratings. Because of this WGR is never going to be a threat to the top stations in Buffalo/Niagara with its current format.

-WNSA usually won the ratings battle between WNSA and WGR when they were going head to head. They did it with an intelligent sports talk format.

-WGR's current ratings are roughly equivilant to WNSA's + WGR's back when they were going head to head.


The sports talk audience in the Buffalo/Niagara market is pretty static. After WNSA's demise those listeners just migrated over to WGR. WGR hasn't really added any listeners nor have the lost any listeners from the general sports talk market. The amount of sports talk listeners is roughly the same as it was back in 2000 when WGR went all talk and they competed with WNSA.
I think at the crux of this discussion is that we just plain disagree. It's cool - it doesn't mean we're both not entitled to an opinion.

One of the things I take issue with is you putting words in my mouth about the "food draft." (Nice pun, huh?) I have never said that WGR needs the food draft, or any of the other like and dumb content they run. What I'm saying is LIVE and LOCAL wins in radio. Live and local doesn't mean they have to local guys debating cheese, but it does mean that regularly talking about the QMJHL and similar things is not a good idea.

Anyways, for what it's worth, Brad Riter is a salt of the earth guy, and if you feel strongly enough about the content on GR and what you'd like to hear on the radio, you should tell him. He's a good guy and the type of person who would appreciate such a phone call.

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03-23-2011, 09:54 AM
  #121
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Their call screening sucks. 50% of the people who call in aren't even talking about about the show is talking about. On wednesday they were talking about how the Sabres were playing and some guy gets on the air and wants to know how realistic they think it is to sign Brad Richards in the offseason.

The next guy talks about how they should trade Pominville or waive him.

95% of the callers are morons, and I can see how they can get really frustrated, but their call screening needs to be better. For callers to not even be talking about what the show is talking about is ridiculous and inexcusable.

And then yesterday some guy gets on and asks them to look up some ridiculously made up stat about Miller. You just can't let those calls get on the air.

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03-23-2011, 06:17 PM
  #122
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Speaking of call screening, did anyone hear the postgame last night when some knucklehead called up and said he saw Derek Roy downtown, drunk, during the game ? These are the kinds of calls that need to be screened better. Granted he was hung up right away and ignored.

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03-23-2011, 07:08 PM
  #123
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And then yesterday some guy gets on and asks them to look up some ridiculously made up stat about Miller. You just can't let those calls get on the air.
Was it the guy who called to ask if they can look up the stat of how many 3-4+ goal games Miller had this year? And they were like "Why don't you look it up?" I know Jerry Sullivan knows for sure.

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03-23-2011, 07:58 PM
  #124
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if they screened out ALL the morons who call up, would anyone actually get through to talk to the hosts?

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03-23-2011, 08:49 PM
  #125
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if they screened out ALL the morons who call up, would anyone actually get through to talk to the hosts?
the hosts wouldn't be able to get through to themselves

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