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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 2)

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Old
05-01-2011, 07:42 AM
  #751
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I can see dealing Anisimov but not just to move up a few spots in this draft. Anisimov still has more upside--44 points in 82 games as a 22 year old. I'd have to think in at least the next couple years he's going to be at least become a steady 50 point (+) per year producer. Not something to sneeze at. If he can fill out his body to 220 lbs and incorporate that into the same kind of steady play he might hit the 60's now and again.

So--no to gambling that Ryan Murphy is going to be a significant improvement on Del Zotto--and trading Anisimov and MDZ for him.

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05-01-2011, 07:43 AM
  #752
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First off, you don't trade a roster player and part of your core for a prospect unless he's a blue chip can't miss guy. Murph, while very good, isn't that.

Second, arty is a reliable pro and a torts favorite. Torts trusts him and he is indeed part of our core.

Hes not flashy but he's every bit as important as dub or even cally. He got his spot on the roster secure. You don't move him for a prospect. Period.

I'm not as big an mdz fan as a many here seem to be based soley on these factors.

He doesn't skate that well.
He's got average size
His defensive game is atrocious


He's a gifted passer and sees the ice well for sure but his shot isn't strong enough to be a weapon from the point.

If the right deal comes along, you gotta consider moving a guy who we won without last yer and who may not have a spot this year.

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05-01-2011, 08:30 AM
  #753
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MDZ + our 1st + small sweetener - could that get us Murphy?
Not sure it should be done, just asking valuewise.
Say Murphy goes #7 to #10...

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Old
05-01-2011, 08:46 AM
  #754
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I'm sure the Florida pick is for sale considering the franchise is broke and irrelevant.
AA, MDZ, Krieder this years 1,3, next years 1
DO IT DO IT DO IT

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05-01-2011, 08:50 AM
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
I'm sure the Florida pick is for sale considering the franchise is broke and irrelevant.
AA, MDZ, Krieder this years 1,3, next years 1
DO IT DO IT DO IT
Donīt Bogart that joint Kimosabe

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05-01-2011, 09:00 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Donīt Bogart that joint Kimosabe
Not a good enough deal for Florida?
They sent Gudbranso back to JR's cause they did not want to pay him.
Fleece the franchises that are a joke. At least they are good for something.

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05-01-2011, 09:02 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
I'm sure the Florida pick is for sale considering the franchise is broke and irrelevant.
AA, MDZ, Krieder this years 1,3, next years 1
DO IT DO IT DO IT
Yeah, I don't see the Rangers doing this.

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05-01-2011, 09:39 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
Not a good enough deal for Florida?
They sent Gudbranso back to JR's cause they did not want to pay him.
Fleece the franchises that are a joke. At least they are good for something.
That's not true. Florida had offered him the money, it takes two sides to agree to a contract:

Quote:
Gudbranson, the third overall pick in the 2010 NHL Draft, did not reach a contract agreement with the Panthers by Tuesday's 5 p.m. deadline and will be returned to his Canadian junior team in Kingston, Ontario.
Gudbranson practiced Tuesday morning with the Panthers in Coral Springs.
``Sometimes you just can't get a deal done,'' Panthers assistant general manager Mike Santos said. ``They worked at it, and we worked at it. It's not over for us. We still have his rights for two more years. I'm confident we'll have him signed down the road.''
The key hang-up in the deal was the amount of money the Panthers were willing to pay Gudbranson in performance bonuses. As a player signing an entry level contract, Gudbranson's base pay and signing bonus weren't going to be extravagant numbers. The performance bonuses, however, could bring his salary into the millions.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/0...#ixzz1L6yma1ck
And don't call them an irrelevant franchise either, they finally got a new GM who will build a winner for them. They have Gudbranson, Markstrom, Bjugstad and Kulikov already and could very likely be 1st overall in the draft next year.

Dale Tallon is not an idiot, you have absolutely no chance to get a pick from him unless he bends you over.

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Old
05-01-2011, 10:01 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
I'm sure the Florida pick is for sale considering the franchise is broke and irrelevant.
AA, MDZ, Krieder this years 1,3, next years 1
DO IT DO IT DO IT
That's a horrible deal for the Rangers. Horrible.

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05-01-2011, 10:24 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
That's a horrible deal for the Rangers. Horrible.
That's the prime definition of overvaluing somebody who hasn't even been drafted yet. We need to stop overrating picks and prospects. AA, MDZ, Krieder 2011 1st, 2012 1st 2011 3rd.

Would anyone in their right mind give up a young promising PMD, a young promising two way center, a speedy powerforward top prospect, a 15th overall pick a 75th overall pick, and next years first for FREAKING LARSSON, COUTURIER, NUGENT-HOPKINS or LANDESKOG? They aren't THAT good, they're barely even franchise players. Look what it took to get Kovalchuk, none of the aforementioned UNDRAFTED prospects deserve to even be breathing the same air as Kovalchuk.


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05-01-2011, 11:40 AM
  #761
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Funny thing is I'm less enamored with prospects. I just think our youth is ordinary.

In the beginning I said those two in a package and stand by it. You can probably get something decent in addition, but getting a top ten pick for Anisimov alone doesn't seem reasonable.

Talking about draft position is irrelevant. If you think Murphy can be the go to offensive defenseman on your team you do it. His size doesn't worry me. A guy like Ryan Ellis from a few years ago seems to have progressed well enough to give confidence in small puck wizards from the backline. Our D is huge as it is.

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05-01-2011, 11:50 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Funny thing is I'm less enamored with prospects. I just think our youth is ordinary.

In the beginning I said those two in a package and stand by it. You can probably get something decent in addition, but getting a top ten pick for Anisimov alone doesn't seem reasonable.

Talking about draft position is irrelevant. If you think Murphy can be the go to offensive defenseman on your team you do it. His size doesn't worry me. A guy like Ryan Ellis from a few years ago seems to have progressed well enough to give confidence in small puck wizards from the backline. Our D is huge as it
is.
Even if the value was there ( it's not), how does this trade even help us? Even if Murphy has the potential to be a 60-65 pt dman and MDZ only ends up bring a 45-50 pt dman with a physical edge, how does it make sense at all to add a 45-50pt 2-way 2nd line center just to get an extra 10-20 pts from the backend? Especially when you consider that Mdz could be giving us these points next season whereas Murphy is almost assuredly 3 years away from the NHL.

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05-01-2011, 11:55 AM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Funny thing is I'm less enamored with prospects. I just think our youth is ordinary.
That's nice. Even if you consider Anisimov and Del Zotto "ordinary", use logic here. Del Zotto has already put up nearly 40 points at the NHL level. How much of improvement do you really think Murphy will be? Sounds like you haven't even watched the kid, yet you're offering two pieces that the Rangers value very highly. If they didn't trade Anisimov for Richards, they won't be trading him for prospect Ryan Murphy.

Quote:
In the beginning I said those two in a package and stand by it. You can probably get something decent in addition, but getting a top ten pick for Anisimov alone doesn't seem reasonable.
It doesn't seem reasonable for the Rangers, from what I see, especially in a draft as bad as this. Anisimov is 22, and finished the year with 44 points. He's excellent defensively, and he still has plenty of room to grow. This is the type of player you hope to get in the 7-10 range, you don't trade him to try and pick the same.

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05-01-2011, 02:02 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
That's nice. Even if you consider Anisimov and Del Zotto "ordinary", use logic here. Del Zotto has already put up nearly 40 points at the NHL level. How much of improvement do you really think Murphy will be? Sounds like you haven't even watched the kid, yet you're offering two pieces that the Rangers value very highly. If they didn't trade Anisimov for Richards, they won't be trading him for prospect Ryan Murphy.
I don't really care if we get Murphy or ______. We need a difference maker on the backend. It's tiring hearing people year after year say Marc Staal is going to break out. He may actually turn into a good offensive option, but realistically he'll be the shutdown we know him as. And that's fine.

The crux of my argument is we're in deep **** if the NYR value those two very highly like you say. To say they are untradeable is silly (not saying you have). We need more guys like Kreider and Thomas at all positions. Hagelin's gonna be great, but he's also another try hard, accept the fact that he really doesn't have that elite skill or trait in him.

Believe me, I'd much rather go after a proven young stud in the NHL with those two. But I really don't think Del Zotto is a desirable piece at this point in time.

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Old
05-01-2011, 02:17 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
I don't really care if we get Murphy or ______. We need a difference maker on the backend. It's tiring hearing people year after year say Marc Staal is going to break out. He may actually turn into a good offensive option, but realistically he'll be the shutdown we know him as. And that's fine.

The crux of my argument is we're in deep **** if the NYR value those two very highly like you say. To say they are untradeable is silly (not saying you have). We need more guys like Kreider and Thomas at all positions. Hagelin's gonna be great, but he's also another try hard, accept the fact that he really doesn't have that elite skill or trait in him.

Believe me, I'd much rather go after a proven young stud in the NHL with those two. But I really don't think Del Zotto is a desirable piece at this point in time.
How are we in deep **** if we value a potential 50-60 point 2-way dman who has already hit 44 pts as a 22year old in his second season as well as a very young PMD that has shown promise at the NHL level? These players need to be given the time to succeed. I am also not saying they are untradeable at all, just that the value of the proposed trade was far off.

If you want a strong puck moving presence on the backend, go give the money to Markov or Ehrhoff this summer, and use that time to allow MDZ more time to develope his game.

What does Hagelin have to do with this arguement at all, and who said anything about him having elite talent?

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Old
05-01-2011, 02:48 PM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
I don't really care if we get Murphy or ______. We need a difference maker on the backend. It's tiring hearing people year after year say Marc Staal is going to break out. He may actually turn into a good offensive option, but realistically he'll be the shutdown we know him as. And that's fine.
How do you know Murphy will be that difference maker? Del Zotto has already had a successful NHL campaign - Murphy has not. What if Murphy ends up as the next Clay Wilson? How would you feel knowing the Rangers wasted two very valuable assets on "potential"

Quote:
The crux of my argument is we're in deep **** if the NYR value those two very highly like you say. To say they are untradeable is silly (not saying you have). We need more guys like Kreider and Thomas at all positions. Hagelin's gonna be great, but he's also another try hard, accept the fact that he really doesn't have that elite skill or trait in him.
"Deep ****"? They're in "deep ****" because they value a center who scored 44 points as a 22 year old sophomore, and is already an above-average defensive forward? Any team would kill to have a player like Anisimov. You seem to want to trade him just because he's most likely not going to be a gamebreaker. That's not how it works.

Quote:
Believe me, I'd much rather go after a proven young stud in the NHL with those two. But I really don't think Del Zotto is a desirable piece at this point in time.
Well, that's fine and dandy, but the fact of the matter is that Del Zotto has proven something in the NHL, and Murphy has not. If you don't think Del Zotto is an attractive trade piece, then why would we want to trade for Murphy? You're contradicting yourself big time here.

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Old
05-01-2011, 03:33 PM
  #767
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I definitely wouldn't give up on MDZ easily, I really like the kid.

But I got a big mancrush for Murphy, and I can't really understand why you would pick players like Landeskog ahead of him in a draft. But that's just my opinon, and I know many who knows more then me don't agree with it.

Another thing with Murphy though, and the reason why I wouldn't make the deal talked about above -- that's his age.

What are we building for here in NY? We are in a good position to got for a cup in 3-5 years, we are not in a good position to go for a cup in 10 years. A D takes time before he really hits his prime and becomes "that" diffrence maker. Often after their 30's. Murphy is barely 18...

My point is just, its not the time for us to deal our most valuble assets for a 18 y/o, unless if that kid is a extremely special offensive forward (guys like Kane can make a difference at like the age of 20, I can't think of a D ever who made a difference at the age of 20).

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05-01-2011, 04:03 PM
  #768
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I definitely wouldn't give up on MDZ easily, I really like the kid.

But I got a big mancrush for Murphy, and I can't really understand why you would pick players like Landeskog ahead of him in a draft. But that's just my opinon, and I know many who knows more then me don't agree with it.

Another thing with Murphy though, and the reason why I wouldn't make the deal talked about above -- that's his age.

What are we building for here in NY? We are in a good position to got for a cup in 3-5 years, we are not in a good position to go for a cup in 10 years. A D takes time before he really hits his prime and becomes "that" diffrence maker. Often after their 30's. Murphy is barely 18...

My point is just, its not the time for us to deal our most valuble assets for a 18 y/o, unless if that kid is a extremely special offensive forward (guys like Kane can make a difference at like the age of 20, I can't think of a D ever who made a difference at the age of 20).
Doughty?

But seriously, I agree with everything you're saying here. I think some people are so stooped on the newest thing that they forget about what's already around.

The person who said that Anisimov is what teams hope to get at the 7-10 range is bang on.

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Old
05-01-2011, 05:13 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
Doughty?

But seriously, I agree with everything you're saying here. I think some people are so stooped on the newest thing that they forget about what's already around.

The person who said that Anisimov is what teams hope to get at the 7-10 range is bang on.
Seriously?

Um.....no.

I am hoping like heck we aren't looking for another arty from 7-10. I love anisimov for what he is and that's a very good 3c. Please remember where he was drafted.

If I draft zbad at 10 and he's arty part 2. I'm seriously bummed.

There are artys available this year but at 7-10 you better hope they are more than that.

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05-01-2011, 05:18 PM
  #770
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Going to be an interesting next 60 days with this draft, prospect camp and then july 1st.


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05-01-2011, 05:22 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
That's the prime definition of overvaluing somebody who hasn't even been drafted yet. We need to stop overrating picks and prospects. AA, MDZ, Krieder 2011 1st, 2012 1st 2011 3rd.

Would anyone in their right mind give up a young promising PMD, a young promising two way center, a speedy powerforward top prospect, a 15th overall pick a 75th overall pick, and next years first for FREAKING LARSSON, COUTURIER, NUGENT-HOPKINS or LANDESKOG? They aren't THAT good, they're barely even franchise players. Look what it took to get Kovalchuk, none of the aforementioned UNDRAFTED prospects deserve to even be breathing the same air as Kovalchuk.
The franchise has an abundance of second, third and fourth line dept. To take some of that to get first line with franchise potential is well worth it.
Larrson, Couturier or Landeskog would immediately go to the top of our prospect dept and at the very worst would be playing within a year.
Sometimes you need to go on a limb to get the fruit.

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05-01-2011, 05:37 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
The franchise has an abundance of second, third and fourth line dept. To take some of that to get first line with franchise potential is well worth it.
Larrson, Couturier or Landeskog would immediately go to the top of our prospect dept and at the very worst would be playing within a year.
Sometimes you need to go on a limb to get the fruit.
But trading all that just a top pick in a weak draft isn't worth it. RNH, Couturier, Larrson, and especially Landeskog won't be that good. None of them scream star or franchise player to me to be honest.

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05-01-2011, 06:19 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
The franchise has an abundance of second, third and fourth line dept. To take some of that to get first line with franchise potential is well worth it.
Larrson, Couturier or Landeskog would immediately go to the top of our prospect dept and at the very worst would be playing within a year.
Sometimes you need to go on a limb to get the fruit.
You are trading a potential #2 center, a PMD that has shown promise in the league and is only 20, our top prospect , our 15th overall pick this year, 3rd round this year, and our 1st round pick from one of the stronger drafts on the last 5-6 years for a top pick in a draft that is not even top heavy!!!! Absolutely insane.

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05-01-2011, 06:44 PM
  #774
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I'm just looking at it from a risk/reward standpoint.
This is only for Florida's pick, nothing else is worth it. But you can target them just based on economics.
It makes so much sense it's scary.

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05-01-2011, 06:46 PM
  #775
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I'd be thrilled with a possible 60 point defensively responsible forward in the first round.

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