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Old
03-10-2011, 08:23 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
My buddy who is self employed in the States and makes enough money but opts not to have insurance told me of his recent experience. He needed to have something removed from his leg and to do so he looked up several Doctors on Yelp and actually priced shopped the operation. He told them he was going to pay cash and just bartered the price and researched the Dr. Kinda funn
That's what one of my family's friends did with their second child. After paying about 5000-6000 with all their prenatal check ups, and their insurance. For their next child, they opted out of using insurance, and bartered and got the doc to give them a deal and only paid about 3000 for all prenatal care/labor.

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03-10-2011, 08:27 PM
  #127
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Here's the response I got when I said that I feel it should be the government's duty to provide for basic needs for their people:

"No it isn't as simple as that. As admirable as those goals are this country is not founded on them, but the constitution. The preamble of the constitution, like any good document, tells us the purpose of what follows after. This is what the preamble says: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

General welfare of the people doesn't mean healthcare for all. I can explain in more detail if you are interested, even with the founders' own words about what they meant. The American dream is not that we all get equal stuff, but that we all have equal opportunity to pursue whatever we please. That we might become successes based on our own merits, not because we have everything handed to us without any effort. That we are responsible for ourselves and our families, not he government caring for families. Did you know the US didn't even have an income tax until World War I?

Any other country can try to do all these things for everyone, but not one that is based on our constitution. And, sadly, it will fail. Just like very other historical instance in which this has been tried"




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03-10-2011, 08:28 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by blahblah3 View Post
I am not sure what is difficult for you to grasp here. Basic jobs in the US have health coverage, 85% of Americans have access to the greatest health care the world can offer, and Canadian politicians would agree with me. Reference Danny Williams.
Some jobs in the US provide heath coverage and people on welfare have coverage. But many people cannot afford health insurance, the working poor and others.
Some have had health insurance but after having an illness can no longer get it or have to pay prohibitive amounts to get it and some cannot pay.

A friend of mine is a Dr in Florida. and he finds that more and more the health care there is being run for the benefit of the insurance companies.

And its not as though the insurance companies there don't give people the thumbs down sometimes so that they wind up having to pay for their treatment.

There may be better programs for health care in other countries but the US is not one of them

.

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Old
03-10-2011, 08:34 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
Funny thing is, its not actually true.

When it comes to specialists, many docs from the states come to Canada.

They do get paid less, but they can do more in Canada.

I work in a hospital, with 2 of the top 5 pediatric cardiovascular surgeons in the WORLD. Both from the states, chose to come to canada to work. The reason why... because they are able to do more research. Many of surgeries they do on people, are not 100% a cure for something, and in the States, if its not a cure, often people can't afford to do it. So these two surgeons have developed and almost perfected surgeries that are not as frequently done in the US.

And I do agree that the quality may be better IF (and only IF) you have the money. If you don't have the money, or have great insurance. They quality in the states falls drastically.

And frankly, someone shouldn't receive bad health care because they work a factory job to make ends meet.

So yeah, many family docs go to the states for the money, but research done in Canada is actually pretty good. And docs are allowed to do more here, simply because everyone gets the same care, not just those who can afford it.
Are you at SickKids?

Also, I don't know how important the extra cash is to doctors relative to other factors. I mean, they all make alot of money and the ones that I know aren't that motivated by it.

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03-10-2011, 08:36 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Some jobs in the US provide heath coverage and people on welfare have coverage. But many people cannot afford health insurance, the working poor and others.
Some have had health insurance but after having an illness can no longer get it or have to pay prohibitive amounts to get it and some cannot pay.

A friend of mine is a Dr in Florida. and he finds that more and more the health care there is being run for the benefit of the insurance companies.

And its not as though the insurance companies there don't give people the thumbs down sometimes so that they wind up having to pay for their treatment.

There may be better programs for health care in other countries but the US is not one of them

.

If you took the time to read my previous posts you would see I said that I am not saying the solution to our health care problems is a US system. But if you think that the average US hospital is equivalent to the average Canadian hospital, and if you think we do a similar volume of medical research, you are living in a fantasy world.

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03-10-2011, 08:37 PM
  #131
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I'm sure it was mentioned earlier but of course ours being free encourages abuses. I will point out another abuse I recently encountered. A colleague who is Russian wants to bring her old father over because she fears his health will fail in the coming years and she wants him to come to Canada and be able to access the free health care. He won't provide much to the economy at that stage given he is near retirement. Anyway, it's a reflection of our immigration policies as much as anything else. Interesting though because when we think of abuses we think of people going for the slightest of reasons and getting meds prescribed for every ache and not something like immigration.

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03-10-2011, 08:38 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Pangu View Post
Are you at SickKids?

Also, I don't know how important the extra cash is to doctors relative to other factors. I mean, they all make alot of money and the ones that I know aren't that motivated by it.
I am at sick kids. And honestly, the research that is done there, the doctors that work there, and the care thats given, is pretty great.

I've worked at other pediatric hospital's in the states, and I wouldn't think they are any different.

The reason why the surgeon's here (at sick kids) take a pay cut is because they can do more surgeries and gain more experience.

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03-10-2011, 08:42 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by enviro61 View Post
I'm sure it was mentioned earlier but of course ours being free encourages abuses. I will point out another abuse I recently encountered. A colleague who is Russian wants to bring her old father over because she fears his health will fail in the coming years and she wants him to come to Canada and be able to access the free health care. He won't provide much to the economy at that stage given he is near retirement. Anyway, it's a reflection of our immigration policies as much as anything else. Interesting though because when we think of abuses we think of people going for the slightest of reasons and getting meds prescribed for every ache and not something like immigration.
I do agree, that's something that will always be an issue. My dad (although has lived in canada 99% of his life), is just like that. Constantly goes to the doc. I always tell him to suck it up.

Although, I thought they had to be here a certain amount of time to receive canadian health benefits (although I may be totally wrong).

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03-10-2011, 08:58 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by blahblah3 View Post
If you took the time to read my previous posts you would see I said that I am not saying the solution to our health care problems is a US system. But if you think that the average US hospital is equivalent to the average Canadian hospital, and if you think we do a similar volume of medical research, you are living in a fantasy world.
Of course there is more research being done in the states. The States has 310 million people. Canada has 34 million.

There will never be a time that the states doesn't have more research being done. But honestly, ALOT of research that is being done in the states, is being done on a smaller scale in canada. For example, in the states they are growing rat hearts (which would allow someone to get a transplant without having rejection or post op meds). They are doing the exact same research in Canada as well. Its simply on a smaller scale.

To think that the Canadian health care system is useless, horrible and not doing anything to better the care is completely wrong. On the flip side, there is lots we could be doing to make our health care better. But to look at a USA system to make it better, honestly, I think that would make it much much worse.

I'd actually like to look at the numbers of medical research per capita though. It may be fairly similar in Canada as the states.

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03-10-2011, 09:04 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
Of course there is more research being done in the states. The States has 310 million people. Canada has 34 million.

There will never be a time that the states doesn't have more research being done. But honestly, ALOT of research that is being done in the states, is being done on a smaller scale in canada. For example, in the states they are growing rat hearts (which would allow someone to get a transplant without having rejection or post op meds). They are doing the exact same research in Canada as well. Its simply on a smaller scale.

To think that the Canadian health care system is useless, horrible and not doing anything to better the care is completely wrong. On the flip side, there is lots we could be doing to make our health care better. But to look at a USA system to make it better, honestly, I think that would make it much much worse.

I'd actually like to look at the numbers of medical research per capita though. It may be fairly similar in Canada as the states.
You do great work at Sick Kids, it's a great place & we are very lucky to have that in this community. I've had to take my kids there a few times. Thanks for all you guys do there for our children.

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Old
03-10-2011, 09:21 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
Of course there is more research being done in the states. The States has 310 million people. Canada has 34 million.

There will never be a time that the states doesn't have more research being done. But honestly, ALOT of research that is being done in the states, is being done on a smaller scale in canada. For example, in the states they are growing rat hearts (which would allow someone to get a transplant without having rejection or post op meds). They are doing the exact same research in Canada as well. Its simply on a smaller scale.

To think that the Canadian health care system is useless, horrible and not doing anything to better the care is completely wrong. On the flip side, there is lots we could be doing to make our health care better. But to look at a USA system to make it better, honestly, I think that would make it much much worse.

I'd actually like to look at the numbers of medical research per capita though. It may be fairly similar in Canada as the states.
That's also if you ignore research at University and research paid for by the American government because those are two huge things.

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03-10-2011, 09:32 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by blahblah3 View Post
If you took the time to read my previous posts you would see I said that I am not saying the solution to our health care problems is a US system. But if you think that the average US hospital is equivalent to the average Canadian hospital, and if you think we do a similar volume of medical research, you are living in a fantasy world.
Since I didn't mention Canada having equal research to the US your response is a bit odd..I guess you just pulled that one out of your hat.

However your enthusiasm over the "greatest health care system the wolrd can offer" and assertion that nearly eveyone is covered by their work would seem to indicate that your glasses are a little rosy.The US does not have the best figures for overall health care.

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03-10-2011, 09:49 PM
  #138
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That's also if you ignore research at University and research paid for by the American government because those are two huge things.
You also have to think about the economy and money spent and all of that.

If you look at things, the American government spends about 25% more per capita on health care than we do in Canada. And honestly, look at their economy.

I do get that more money goes into their health care system, but its not fair to all people. Also, government spending isn't just about health care, and I'm not sure I'd be happy for the Canadian government to spend an extra 25% on our health care, simply to have a little more research than we have here. And lots of that research will be nothing.

I do understand the importance of research, but I don't think we should spend endless money on it either. Of course we could probably allocate the money Canada uses for health care in a more efficient way.

Honestly, the way the States spends money, may end up biting them in the ass sooner or later. I'm happy I live in Canada, and can just reap the benefits of the states research.

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03-10-2011, 10:00 PM
  #139
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Well since the US is one of the richest country in the world then of course to stand to reason that there must be some hospitals for millionaires in some of the states. I bet those have it all, the latest and very best equipment with the best doctors in the USA. yep I just bet that is all true, but of course you need a Rolls to get into the parking lot. Now for the real world for the vast majority of the regular people in regular towns in the USA. Well it must be true that those hospitals are not quite on the same level. Now you have to factor in the population. Canada has 35mill total and wow spread all over the place. Do you actually think a small town in say New Brunswick has a world class hospital? or how about Newfoundland? do they have a world class hospital, of course not. A good hospital but NOT world class top hospital. SO if somebody has the money and want the very best he just might choose one of those super high end hospitals in the US. But you must also agree some of the best hospitals in Europe are just as good, it's a matter of choice if you have the money to spend. So are you saying every town and city has a world class hospital in the USA? If you you are going to have to explain that to me like i was a two year old.
Your statement that 85% of Americans have health ins? 50 million + don't have INS at all and that number is getting BIGGER ever minute.
Oh yes add to this, the Denial rate of claims in the USA, WOW that alone is a really sick thing. We fix you once but after that you ins goes up 100X because we sure don't want your business anymore.
The Canadian system sure in not perfect but I am old enough to remember before we had Health care. Some of my uncles went to backruptcy trying to save their kids and still just ran out of money and had to watch the kids DIE. Ask me now what system I like better.

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Old
03-10-2011, 10:12 PM
  #140
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First off I have to say that I do not understand how this thread has lasted so long. I am surprised by this because mods who have posted in this thread gave me infractions in the past for having an avatar of a politician. How is this thread not politically related when it starts off with "I have the unfortunate luck of having conservative friends?"

Second, its a falsehood that if you are poor you get no health insurance. In fact some of the best health care in this country is given to poor people. You think people on wellfare in this country just go without healthcare? Not a chance, they get free government paid health care that is good in any hospital and taken by most doctors. Of course it is up to each individual to fill out the appropriate paperwork and continue to correspond with their social worker. As long as they do this, they have the arguably the best coverage.

Wealthy people obviously can afford their own insurance. The people who get "screwed" in the USA are the working class (sub middle class, nut not poverty). Most middle class Americans get their health insurance paid for, at least in part, by their employer. Generally middle class people have decent jobs and work for a decent employer.

Working class people tend to work crappy jobs that offer no benefits. This is especially true for college kids who are no longer eligible on their parents plan, and have yet to get a job working for a good employer. So yes there are a lot of Americans who choose to go without health insurance because 1) they arent poor enough for the government to pay for it, and 2) they dont have an employer sharing the costs, and 3) its too expensive for them to pay for it out of their own pocket.

Now I say "too expensive" loosely because its funny that a lot (not all) of these same people own a smartphone and pay $100 dollar a month cell phone bill, have high speed internet access in their apartment, a nice car they pay $300 or more a month on, and an Ipod touch. For many of these people that fall into the uninsured it is simply a matter of choice that they do not have health insurance. They are young, rarely sick, feel invincible, and would rather have the nice car and phone then pay for something they are rarely going to use.

On top of that, almost every state has some kind of subsidized health care that does not cover doctors visits or medicine, BUT it will cover you in the event of needing to be hospitalized or have need hospital care procedures. On top of that, most pharmacies in the country have a pretty long list of generic meds where they only charge $7 for a months supply. Target, a national department store chain, is one of these.

On top of all that, there are numerous charitable organizations that run free hospitals and clinics, places like the Shriners hospitals, and innumerable catholic run facilities. Then there are VA hospitals which are free for any veteran. Which if you live in the USA thats like every third person since we are constantly killing some poor slobs somewhere.

All that being said, health care in this country is expensive. Government paid health care costs are out of control, health care costs for retired workers for companies like GM and Ford have crippled their business. More companies are passing on larger shares of health care costs to their employees for anything above the basic health care package (so if you want to see a specialist without a referral from your PCP, you will have to pay the extra money for the more expensive policy for example).

Yet, the bottom line is, health care in this country is free market which ultimately makes it the greatest health care system in the world in terms of service. Because people in the health care industry can get pretty filthy rich, competition for those health care dollars spurs innovation. Hospitals compete to be more modern, have better staffs, and use the latest technology. Manufacturers compete to make better machines that can save more lives and do it less intrusively, pharmaceutical companies compete to find the newest drugs to treat illnesses. Doctors from all over the world come to the USA to practice medicine and become wealthy.

You never have to wait for anything in this country in terms of procedures or being seen. You need an operation? How about tomorrow morning? Oh your sick and its Saturday night at 10pm? Come to one of our after hour health centers where you can walk in and see a doctor in under 15 mins, and then pick up your script at the 24 hour pharmacy down the street. Oh you just had knee surgery and need rehab? Here are some pamphlets to about 2 dozen facilities in the are that would love to have you stay with them starting tomorrow.

My uncle just had a heart attack last week. The same night he went in they gave him a cardio catheter and then performed quadruple bypass on him the next morning. Two days later he is recovering and beginning his rehab in a facility built specifically for this purpose.

Because there is competition, these things are made available to us. There is a reason why Philadelphia has more MRI machines than can be found in your entire country.

Canada's system has its upsides too, dont get me wrong. It is nice that no one ever has to worry about health insurance from birth to death. You never have to worry about paying premiums on health care, or where your going to get that money to pay for that surgery that is only partially covered by your middle class employee paid benefits. The downside to this of course is that Canadians are taxed way more than we are in the states. This is also why you have free college education, and I still owe $75,000+ in student loans.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is do you prefer never having to worry about these things knowing that the government ensures some level of equality for all Canadians, but receive less quality service and longer wait times, or do you prefer to keep more of the money you earn, be responsible for paying your own way in many things, but have access to leading world class services?

I prefer the later. I am also a hardcore conservative and tea party person. I am all for less taxes, less entitlements, and a smaller less intrusive government.


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Old
03-10-2011, 10:39 PM
  #141
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Also, here is a video by Steven Crowder (a Canadian living in the USA) who goes back to Canada to do an uncover video of what its like to get treatment if your sick or injured.

In the video he goes with his friend to a clinic to get a blood test. The nurse tells him they don't do it at the clinic and to call someplace and get a family doctor, he said he has been trying for three months already and she replies that it could take him several years to get a doctor!!!

She finally suggests that he go to a pay facility where he can get it done for $900.

This to me is insane. You can call a blood lab in the morning and get an appointment that afternoon for a blood test. If you need a family doctor, pick one out of the phone book and call. You will have an appointment the next day, regardless if you have insurance or not.


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03-10-2011, 10:46 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post

My uncle just had a heart attack last week. The same night he went in they gave him a cardio catheter and then performed quadruple bypass on him the next morning. Two days later he is recovering and beginning his rehab in a facility built specifically for this purpose.


Canada's system has its upsides too, dont get me wrong. It is nice that no one ever has to worry about health insurance from birth to death. You never have to worry about paying premiums on health care, or where your going to get that money to pay for that surgery that is only partially covered by your middle class employee paid benefits. The downside to this of course is that Canadians are taxed way more than we are in the states. This is also why you have free college education, and I still owe $75,000+ in student loans.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is do you prefer never having to worry about these things knowing that the government ensures some level of equality for all Canadians, but receive less quality service and longer wait times, or do you prefer to keep more of the money you earn, be responsible for paying your own way in many things, but have access to leading world class services?

I prefer the later. I am also a hardcore conservative and tea party person. I am all for less taxes, less entitlements, and a smaller less intrusive government.
Honestly, having an MI and getting a cardiac cath immediately isn't abnormal in Canada either.

If you were in Canada, you'd get a cath that night as well. And have a quad bi-pass the next day as well. And recovery time of 2 days is actually normal recovery time. You can have a transplant and be home in 3-4 days.

As far as leading class services, it does depend where you are. Canada has some aspects of its health care that is better than the states, and has better research as well. I've seen kids come for a specific surgery from the states because the surgeon in canada (who is american) has better stats than any other doc in the world. Canada has some of the best docs in the world as well. It just depends on what you area of health care you are looking at.

The thing is in canada, if you have a minor problem, you will wait. If you have a major issue, you won't. And frankly, I'd sit in that oh so awesome area of not making enough money to get great insurance, but making too much to have government coverage as well. I'm glad I don't have to worry about that.

|As far as taxes go, I don't actually think we pay a huge amount more than those in the states. I had a conversation while I was in Europe with someone from the states about this exact topic. He was wondering what I paid in taxes, as we had about the same salary, and I ended up paying only 2% higher than he did. In all fairness, thats not enough of a difference to have me pay a portion of insurance and a portion of my own health care. If I was rich, maybe I would think differently.

And honestly, I don't mind paying those taxes. I work with kids, who without a surgery would die, and with it can live a perfectly healthy life. To imagine that some would ahve to be sent home with chest tubes or rushed home, and to think some parents may be bankrupted or lose their homes because they needed about a huge amount of money for surgery, it makes my day that i live in Canada.

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03-10-2011, 10:49 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post
Also, here is a video by Steven Crowder (a Canadian living in the USA) who goes back to Canada to do an uncover video of what its like to get treatment if your sick or injured.

In the video he goes with his friend to a clinic to get a blood test. The nurse tells him they don't do it at the clinic and to call someplace and get a family doctor, he said he has been trying for three months already and she replies that it could take him several years to get a doctor!!!

She finally suggests that he go to a pay facility where he can get it done for $900.

This to me is insane. You can call a blood lab in the morning and get an appointment that afternoon for a blood test. If you need a family doctor, pick one out of the phone book and call. You will have an appointment the next day, regardless if you have insurance or not.

That seems INSANE. Any clinic I go to does blood work asap. I just walk into a blood lab and get blood taken in 15 min. Take a number, and its done. I have to get bloodwork done every time I have an immunization, and it takes no longer than 30 min to drive there, get blood work and go home. And I don't pay a dime.

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03-11-2011, 12:21 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post
Also, here is a video by Steven Crowder (a Canadian living in the USA) who goes back to Canada to do an uncover video of what its like to get treatment if your sick or injured.

In the video he goes with his friend to a clinic to get a blood test. The nurse tells him they don't do it at the clinic and to call someplace and get a family doctor, he said he has been trying for three months already and she replies that it could take him several years to get a doctor!!!

She finally suggests that he go to a pay facility where he can get it done for $900.

This to me is insane. You can call a blood lab in the morning and get an appointment that afternoon for a blood test. If you need a family doctor, pick one out of the phone book and call. You will have an appointment the next day, regardless if you have insurance or not.

That's completely false. Can go to a clinic and get a blood test on the same day. Results in 2 weeks.

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03-11-2011, 12:50 AM
  #145
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The downside to this of course is that Canadians are taxed way more than we are in the states. This is also why you have free college education, and I still owe $75,000+ in student loans.
We don't have free college education, unfortunately.

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03-11-2011, 05:45 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post
Also, here is a video by Steven Crowder (a Canadian living in the USA) who goes back to Canada to do an uncover video of what its like to get treatment if your sick or injured.

In the video he goes with his friend to a clinic to get a blood test. The nurse tells him they don't do it at the clinic and to call someplace and get a family doctor, he said he has been trying for three months already and she replies that it could take him several years to get a doctor!!!

She finally suggests that he go to a pay facility where he can get it done for $900.

This to me is insane. You can call a blood lab in the morning and get an appointment that afternoon for a blood test. If you need a family doctor, pick one out of the phone book and call. You will have an appointment the next day, regardless if you have insurance or not.

You have to be careful what people say i am not saying this person in question is not telling the truth but some have been known to twist the info just a bit.As for it takes years to get a docter if you wanta full time family docter some times yes it takes times does it take years as a rule no.There are some people in canada that would love nothing more then to see the canadian health system fail along with most of the social programs and turn everything into pay as you go yes some would love to see that.The biggest issue in canada is the lack of funding and the abuse the system gets which in the states you don't get abuse of the health care system to the degree it is in canada.

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03-11-2011, 06:21 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Romans12_12 View Post
First off I have to say that I do not understand how this thread has lasted so long. I am surprised by this because mods who have posted in this thread gave me infractions in the past for having an avatar of a politician. How is this thread not politically related when it starts off with "I have the unfortunate luck of having conservative friends?"

Second, its a falsehood that if you are poor you get no health insurance. In fact some of the best health care in this country is given to poor people. You think people on wellfare in this country just go without healthcare? Not a chance, they get free government paid health care that is good in any hospital and taken by most doctors. Of course it is up to each individual to fill out the appropriate paperwork and continue to correspond with their social worker. As long as they do this, they have the arguably the best coverage.

Wealthy people obviously can afford their own insurance. The people who get "screwed" in the USA are the working class (sub middle class, nut not poverty). Most middle class Americans get their health insurance paid for, at least in part, by their employer. Generally middle class people have decent jobs and work for a decent employer.

Working class people tend to work crappy jobs that offer no benefits. This is especially true for college kids who are no longer eligible on their parents plan, and have yet to get a job working for a good employer. So yes there are a lot of Americans who choose to go without health insurance because 1) they arent poor enough for the government to pay for it, and 2) they dont have an employer sharing the costs, and 3) its too expensive for them to pay for it out of their own pocket.

Now I say "too expensive" loosely because its funny that a lot (not all) of these same people own a smartphone and pay $100 dollar a month cell phone bill, have high speed internet access in their apartment, a nice car they pay $300 or more a month on, and an Ipod touch. For many of these people that fall into the uninsured it is simply a matter of choice that they do not have health insurance. They are young, rarely sick, feel invincible, and would rather have the nice car and phone then pay for something they are rarely going to use.

On top of that, almost every state has some kind of subsidized health care that does not cover doctors visits or medicine, BUT it will cover you in the event of needing to be hospitalized or have need hospital care procedures. On top of that, most pharmacies in the country have a pretty long list of generic meds where they only charge $7 for a months supply. Target, a national department store chain, is one of these.

On top of all that, there are numerous charitable organizations that run free hospitals and clinics, places like the Shriners hospitals, and innumerable catholic run facilities. Then there are VA hospitals which are free for any veteran. Which if you live in the USA thats like every third person since we are constantly killing some poor slobs somewhere.

All that being said, health care in this country is expensive. Government paid health care costs are out of control, health care costs for retired workers for companies like GM and Ford have crippled their business. More companies are passing on larger shares of health care costs to their employees for anything above the basic health care package (so if you want to see a specialist without a referral from your PCP, you will have to pay the extra money for the more expensive policy for example).

Yet, the bottom line is, health care in this country is free market which ultimately makes it the greatest health care system in the world in terms of service. Because people in the health care industry can get pretty filthy rich, competition for those health care dollars spurs innovation. Hospitals compete to be more modern, have better staffs, and use the latest technology. Manufacturers compete to make better machines that can save more lives and do it less intrusively, pharmaceutical companies compete to find the newest drugs to treat illnesses. Doctors from all over the world come to the USA to practice medicine and become wealthy.

You never have to wait for anything in this country in terms of procedures or being seen. You need an operation? How about tomorrow morning? Oh your sick and its Saturday night at 10pm? Come to one of our after hour health centers where you can walk in and see a doctor in under 15 mins, and then pick up your script at the 24 hour pharmacy down the street. Oh you just had knee surgery and need rehab? Here are some pamphlets to about 2 dozen facilities in the are that would love to have you stay with them starting tomorrow.

My uncle just had a heart attack last week. The same night he went in they gave him a cardio catheter and then performed quadruple bypass on him the next morning. Two days later he is recovering and beginning his rehab in a facility built specifically for this purpose.

Because there is competition, these things are made available to us. There is a reason why Philadelphia has more MRI machines than can be found in your entire country.

Canada's system has its upsides too, dont get me wrong. It is nice that no one ever has to worry about health insurance from birth to death. You never have to worry about paying premiums on health care, or where your going to get that money to pay for that surgery that is only partially covered by your middle class employee paid benefits. The downside to this of course is that Canadians are taxed way more than we are in the states. This is also why you have free college education, and I still owe $75,000+ in student loans.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is do you prefer never having to worry about these things knowing that the government ensures some level of equality for all Canadians, but receive less quality service and longer wait times, or do you prefer to keep more of the money you earn, be responsible for paying your own way in many things, but have access to leading world class services?

I prefer the later. I am also a hardcore conservative and tea party person. I am all for less taxes, less entitlements, and a smaller less intrusive government.
1. We don't get free college education in Canada, we pay.

2. Sarah Palin and her family used to sneak across the border into Canada and use our health care system, like so many Americans do, if you have the greatest health care system in the world, why is th Governor of Alaska using another countries system?

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03-11-2011, 06:28 AM
  #148
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You don't have to wait for blood tests here. He was tyring to get a test at the last minute without being referred by a docter

There is an excellent movie called Hospital made many years ago about people waiting and dying in the ER of an(American) hospital.Very funny in a dark way.

It would be interesting to show an American go in off the street and try to get tests and other prcedures done without being referred by and doctor and without being signed off by an insurance company.

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03-11-2011, 06:38 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
That seems INSANE. Any clinic I go to does blood work asap. I just walk into a blood lab and get blood taken in 15 min. Take a number, and its done. I have to get bloodwork done every time I have an immunization, and it takes no longer than 30 min to drive there, get blood work and go home. And I don't pay a dime.

Ya those are private clinics. The lack of MRIs, and waiting times which are idiotic and getting worse, over crowded hospitals with people waiting for beds out in the halls, hospitals which are old and falling apart (Queensway Carleton) simply are not a problem in the states. The cancer treatments being offered down there are not available anywhere else, due to the fact they do far more research than us.

Any ranking that puts the quality of US care above Canada is due to the fact that ours is covered, not because it is of comparable overall quality.

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03-11-2011, 06:41 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
You don't have to wait for blood tests here. He was tyring to get a test at the last minute without being referred by a docter

There is an excellent movie called Hospital made many years ago about people waiting and dying in the ER of an(American) hospital.Very funny in a dark way.

It would be interesting to show an American go in off the street and try to get tests and other prcedures done without being referred by and doctor and without being signed off by an insurance company.
The hell you don't. You have to wait for at least 2 hours to see a doctor, then you go get a blood test, then you wait some more.

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