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Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ

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Old
03-08-2011, 07:06 PM
  #1
Fugu
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Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ

By popular demand.

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03-09-2011, 12:37 AM
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Bittco
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i really wonder how much longer the nhl will let this drag on- on one hand it seems like the writing is on the wall---of course we have all been thinking that for a while

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03-09-2011, 12:39 AM
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As these threads may end imminently (or not), I think it's time we thank the BoH board lackeys:

Our thread title author is Royal Payne-Diaz

Our public opinion pollster is Paul Murky of Murky Research, assisted by statistician Marge Innovera.
Our consumer care representitive is Haywood Jabuzoff.
Our personal make up artist is Bud Tuggli.
Our director of top secret strategy is Donatello Nobatti.
Our Russian chauffeur is Picov Andropov.
Our seat cushion testeris Mike Easter.
The head of our working mothers support group is Erasmus B. Dragon.
And our chief counsel, from the law firm of Dewey Cheetham, and Howe, is GSC2K2 Hugh Lewis Dewey - known to the "they really need a life" posters on the BoH board as Huey Dewey Louie.

Thanks for posting, and remember, don't post like my brother.

12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ

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Old
03-09-2011, 12:41 AM
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themish
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Awesome, love the title. works very well. I'm new to the board, and I guess I'm a little biased because I live in Winnipeg and want the Jets to come back where it belongs. This whole mess is such a gongshow, words can't really explain it.... hopefully it all ends soon and everything can work out.

I did get the vibe that Bettman was conceding, and now he's just saving face.

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03-09-2011, 12:47 AM
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Bettman's presser tonight might as well had him holding up a white flag....and since they'll be back in the peg soon he probably should have been dressed in all white as well

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03-09-2011, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bittco View Post
i really wonder how much longer the nhl will let this drag on- on one hand it seems like the writing is on the wall---of course we have all been thinking that for a while
Like most other teams that move, it comes down to the Arena. Coyotes were not able to get one built in Scottsdale, where the bulk of their core fans are located, and accepted the deal with Glendale, a 45-60 drive for their core fans in Scottsdale. Too much to ask for 41 times a season and on weekdays.

It is odd to see a team with a 8 year old arena, but no fans because the arena is not in the right city.

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03-09-2011, 12:49 AM
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i really hope that the end isnt imminent, or even in two weeks.

I was really looking forward to episode 30.



WFP has full coverage of tonight. If you think it's biased reporting due to the source, ignore the text, just watch the videos.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...117582273.html

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03-09-2011, 12:50 AM
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Here is the 1st period intermission interview with Bettman.


For a guy who says he isn't angry, he sure seemed terse. I'd say he sounded defeatist tonight.

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03-09-2011, 12:52 AM
  #9
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One question I pose is, Is there a chance that Goldwater steps aside and lets this deal pass?

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03-09-2011, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
Bettman's presser tonight might as well had him holding up a white flag....and since they'll be back in the peg soon he probably should have been dressed in all white as well
Well if Glendale*Phoenix wanted to display their fan support for the Coyotes, the COG and Hulsizer, yesterday, I think it's safe to say that it was a definite mission failure. Bettman was in attendance, so I'm sure he was quite pleased by the numbers.

http://twitpic.com/47p5te


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03-09-2011, 12:55 AM
  #11
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One question I pose is, Is there a chance that Goldwater steps aside and lets this deal pass?
I don't think they'll back down now. Their crediblity was brought out tonight by the NHL-Bettman. It's all over every major news outlet. Their in it for the long haul. Lawsuits and everything. The only thing that's left is the result. 2 weeks? May? June? Who the heck knows. Im sure Bettman and the BOG will figure that out next week.

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03-09-2011, 12:57 AM
  #12
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Sooooooo... is this the last thread? It sure seems like Glendale is out of options


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03-09-2011, 01:08 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by RAgIn View Post
I don't think they'll back down now. Their crediblity was brought out tonight by the NHL-Bettman. It's all over every major news outlet. Their in it for the long haul. Lawsuits and everything. The only thing that's left is the result. 2 weeks? May? June? Who the heck knows. Im sure Bettman and the BOG will figure that out next week.
That seems to be Bettman's end game, doesn't it? He poked the hornet's nest with a stick to see how many are inside. If Goldwater takes it to court, the league can then look into a declaratory judgment etc. while also (potentially) blowing their case apart. But as Bettman said, so long as GWI stands on the sidelines and talks a good game, the cloud will exist indefinitely.

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03-09-2011, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themish View Post
One question I pose is, Is there a chance that Goldwater steps aside and lets this deal pass?
no chance....GWI has 3 major issues
1. who owns the parking rights - this one can be solved if glendale can provide documents that clearly demonstrate that they dont own the rights, and that someone else such as the owner of the coyotes owns them. So far they havent provided documents to goldwaters satisfaction. If they had that documentation which clearly shows they dont own the parking they would have given it to goldwater by now.
2. value of the parking lots - glendale must demonstrate that the parking rights are worth 100 million. gwi has reviewed the parking reports and has major issues with them and doesnt feel that they are worth that amount - including hiring their own consultants to review the parking reports.
3.who is backing the bonds - GWI does not want tax payers on the hook if parking revenues fall short of covering bond...they want Hulsizer to take that risk and not taxpayers - im not sure if they have a legal case for this point or not but it adds to their objection to the deal

they also arent happy with the lack of transparency, and are also against the arena management fees.


if these issues were solvable it would have already happened.....unless glendale can find documents that clearly demonstrate they dont own the parking rights, and Hulsizer is wiliing to pay an additional 30 mill to lower the bond to 70 mill, and hulsizer is willing to pay for the shortage in bond payments, this deal is dead.

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03-09-2011, 01:09 AM
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End of the road for Bettman.

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03-09-2011, 01:28 AM
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I noticed two things during Bettman's press conference:

1) He continually called the meeting requested by Goldwater as a 'Joint-Press Conference' until much later on in the Q&A period where he actually called it a 'meeting'. From what I understand Goldwater asked for a meeting and to promote transparency said the media would be permitted to sit-in on this meeting. Why would Bettman refer to that as a 'Joint-Press Conference'? It seemed kind of obvious to me he was attempting to downplay the offer so he could further blame Goldwater for their 'game playing'.

2) He often said 'I have been told' and 'What I have been told', to the point where it seemed weird. Is this to limit the NHL's liability in some way? Even if just to save face when this blows up and people ask 'How did you not know this?' then he can say 'We were TOLD otherwise.' He never really said 'We believe this deal is legal under the Arizona Constitution' did he? I just recall him saying that the NHL has 'been told' that it is.

And one more thing.....why on earth does Bettman act so stupid when it comes to Goldwater? He obviously must know a reasonable amount about them...but he plays stupid. And then mocked a reporter for saying 'Their letter...isn't enough'...by saying 'You like to talk in cryptic things that only you know about.' and asked 'Letter WHO put out'?. He did this on a few occasions when it was painful obvious that everyone was talking about Goldwater.

Overall....I think this move by Bettman was a final 'Leave us alone!' scream at Goldwater before Hulsizer and the NHL run for the hills. He didn't do anyone any favours by admitting a) Goldwater can 'tough it out' and the unknown deadly will eventually arrive and b) stating that a lawsuit by Goldwater would likely kill the deal on its own. I imagine Goldwater could then retract the lawsuit right? Since there is no longer a deal to sue over?

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03-09-2011, 01:44 AM
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wow, sports media are really bloody stupid.

How do they let Bettman maintain that it's "personal" on the part of Goldwater Institute and that's why they're behaving as they do?

One, simple, question, for Bettman.

Do you think, given the economic situation, that it is appropriate for Glendale to underwrite the team with taxpayer money?

Given that the bonds are backed up with city revenues, that's exactly what the situation is, and what Goldwater objects to.

Of course, the NHL feeds off of cities and states, getting public funding for the stadiums in which their franchises play. And when someone objects to this setup, they call it personal?

Get ONE decent reporter in that news conference, and Bettman would be torn to shreds. Why should the public be subsidizing a league where the millionaires are employed by billionaire owners?

Whether you like them or not, Goldwater IS providing a public service. I'm FAR from a right winger, but I wish we had the equivalent here in BC.

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03-09-2011, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
End of the road for Bettman.
haha, what?

even if the league is force to eat $10m - $15m here, that's not near enough to bring Bettman down. I very much disagree with how he and the league have handled this situation, but this is a flash in the pan compared to things like CBA negotiations, etc.

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03-09-2011, 01:50 AM
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So, to clarify the situation, if GWI dosen't back down from this the Coyotes are essentially ****ed? Or can that be circumvented? Given the League's increasingly impatient tone I can't believe they'll continue babysitting the team if GWI and the CoG get into a legal battle regardless of the outcome.

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03-09-2011, 01:54 AM
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How can "time be short" if there is "no deadline"?
You need to watch NHL Network's On the Fly. (Convo between Amber and Bettman about 45 minutes into the show.)

Bettman said that they won't state a deadline as that would give GWI ammunition to "hold out" until after the deadline.

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William Cooper is the man! Read his book.
Agatha Christie's book is better.

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03-09-2011, 02:00 AM
  #21
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The only two scenarios in which the Coyotes stay


1.) The bonds are sold. Not likely unless someone steps up and assumes an inordinate amount of risk for some strange reason.

2.) GWI backs down, either through concession or Glendale modifying the deal to their taste. Not likely, but more likely than #1.

Anything else, barring a miracle, and it's so long Yotes.

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03-09-2011, 02:02 AM
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Agatha Christie's book is better.
If you like fiction then I guess it would be.

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03-09-2011, 02:07 AM
  #23
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Question perhaps to some of the legal experts on here. Let's assume for a minute that the Coyotes do indeed relocate, to wherever is irrelevant. How would the CoG be able to claim damages due to the loss of a franchise that was in itself losing money? How could one conduct an accurate valuation on that? I understand there would be local economical implications, but when factoring in the unlikeliness that the parking revenues would have been enough to cover the bonds in the first place, would the CoG have much to stand on?

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03-09-2011, 02:11 AM
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Forgive my arrogance as I havent done any research in regards to this subject.

Question?

If the Coyotes leave, could the city of Glendale entertain another solution? An AHL team, an AFL team, indoor soccer? I do realize the Coyotes would be the large draw, but could there be something else that could keep the economy going?

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03-09-2011, 02:33 AM
  #25
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Quote:
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Forgive my arrogance as I havent done any research in regards to this subject.

Question?

If the Coyotes leave, could the city of Glendale entertain another solution? An AHL team, an AFL team, indoor soccer? I do realize the Coyotes would be the large draw, but could there be something else that could keep the economy going?
I find no arrogance in your question; quite the opposite actually.

In answer to your question, when Mayor Scruggs was asked about this topic a few months ago she stated the city had not contemplated any Plan B for the use of the arena should the Coyotes leave. On the contrary, we have all heard how the arena will basically have to be "mothballed" if the NHL team leaves. I believe that with the right arena management company and the right mix of other tenants, visiting acts and other events the attendance and traffic of Coyotes fans could be largely replaced at a fraction of the amount the city is planning on spending on the Hulsizer deal. Perhaps Glendale needs to use their imagination a bit more.

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