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March 17: Conference call update (post #236); Pronger, hand surgery, out 3-4 weeks

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:08 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
True story: Jeff Carter is currently 8th in the NHL for goals scored in the 2010-11 season.
Truer fact, he is 3rd in even strength goals scored

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03-16-2011, 02:10 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
True story: Jeff Carter is currently 8th in the NHL for goals scored in the 2010-11 season.
3rd in ESG.

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03-16-2011, 02:19 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
When the game and potentially your season are on the line? That's when players show their mettle.

Carter is simply not clutch at all. And for the status he has with this team, that's kind of not cool.
If you could manage to separate the narrative you (and a ton of others) think goes with being a really good player, you'd have a much harder time refuting what's being argued against your point.

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03-16-2011, 02:27 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
If you could manage to separate the narrative you (and a ton of others) think goes with being a really good player, you'd have a much harder time refuting what's being argued against your point.
My point is really simple: Carter does not do as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season, and doesn't score big goals when the game is on the line like our better scorers do.

Carter is still a good player; his durability and career numbers in the regular season validate that. I've never said he's bad, I've never said I don't want him on the team. But when the games count, he doesn't show up, and that bothers me. The dude has huge amounts of talent, but lacks the killer instinct and drive that really separates the good from the great in this league.

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03-16-2011, 02:33 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
My point is really simple: Carter does not do as well in the playoffs as he does in the regular season, and doesn't score big goals when the game is on the line like our better scorers do.
I think some of it has to do with coincidence.

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:35 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by galvo View Post
I think some of it has to do with coincidence.
Again, there are a number of contributing factors but at a certain point if he doesn't prove himself it has to fall on him. So far, it's always been some reason why our biggest natural scorer with all the talent in the world doesn't score when we need him to.

As I've said, hopefully this year he proves me wrong and goes on a tear and plays big for us, filling the clutch scoring that other guys provided last year. If that happens to be the case, I hope someone can bookmark my comments here and Jester can post one of his "I told you so" troll threads directed at me, and I'll gladly come say that Carter has defied my expectations.


But if he doesn't, then what?

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03-16-2011, 03:12 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
But if he doesn't, then what?
You will be branded the following...pick and choose b/c Carter seems to be beyond reproach on this board.

a. Hater
b. Cartsiephan's doppleganger
c. All of the above

For the sake of the team I do hope he has his coming out party in the playoffs...and stays healthy. If he has a bunion or whatever then we'll see the usual excuses get "cartsied" out....

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03-17-2011, 01:41 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
You will be branded the following...pick and choose b/c Carter seems to be beyond reproach on this board.

a. Hater
b. Cartsiephan's doppleganger
c. All of the above

For the sake of the team I do hope he has his coming out party in the playoffs...and stays healthy. If he has a bunion or whatever then we'll see the usual excuses get "cartsied" out....
slight difference between a bunion and 2 broken feet.
of course if he sat out you would of called him a *****, so whatever.

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Old
03-17-2011, 01:46 AM
  #234
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say what you want about carter he knows how to put pucks in the net

i'll come back to this post when he scores 8+ goals in the playoffs

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Old
03-17-2011, 10:00 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
slight difference between a bunion and 2 broken feet.
of course if he sat out you would of called him a *****, so whatever.
Really you read minds...whatever is right. He'll get his credit when the credit is due come playoff time when it really matters. So far he's been MIA and yes injuries have played a part so now that he's looking like he will be going into the playoffs on a hot streak..(hopefully it continues) we'll get to see if he puts up and the critics (or haters as some like to refer them as) shut up. Obviously, I'm hoping he does shut people up since we're going the need all the scoring we can get with some of the teams contending this year in our Conf. No cake walk this year...

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Old
03-17-2011, 11:17 AM
  #236
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(Thursday, March 17) Pronger had a conference call with media:

http://www.csnphilly.com/03/17/11/Pr...723&feedID=695

Quote:
ATLANTA -- Chris Pronger, feeling better following surgery to repair a small fracture in his right hand, says he hopes to get a few games in at regular season’s end before the playoffs begin.

The timetable for the defenseman’s return is 3-4 weeks. If Pronger utilizes the minimum three weeks of recovery, that takes him to April 5 with three games left.

He’s going to need games to get his hand working again and his shooting where it needs to be.

“That'd be nice,” Pronger said of a few games. “It’s never easy popping back in. The thing with this injury is that I’m going to be skating and practicing and doing all the rest of that stuff while I’m in the recovery stage, which helps.

“It’s a lot different than when I hurt my foot [in December] and wasn’t able to skate or do anything on the ice. This is a little different. I shouldn’t be that far off when I come back.”

Noted hand specialist Tom Graham performed Pronger’s surgery in Cleveland on Tuesday. Pronger had missed a full month (13 games) between mid-December and mid-January with a fracture in his right foot.

Asked if he’d be 100 percent for the playoffs, “That’s the way it looks right now,” Pronger said. “[My doctor] is very happy with the way surgery went and the way everything looked when he went inside there to fix it …

“As far as we can tell [I’ll be ready], but none of us are Kreskin. We don’t really know what is going to happen.”

Pronger said he “felt great” and had just completed a workout prior to his conference call with reporters.
http://www.csnphilly.com/03/17/11/La...859&feedID=695

Quote:
ATLANTA -- When the pain in Chris Pronger’s right hand wouldn’t subside, and X-rays and MRIs weren’t showing anything, sometimes, it takes that one last test to discover a problem.

Or at the very least, ease a player’s mind.

“Sometimes that last test does. And sometimes it doesn’t,” said Flyers coach Peter Laviolette.

Laviolette said Thursday he had concerns about Pronger’s hand but he didn’t interfere with the medical process as it played out.

“He’s one of our best players, and … I guess this is kind of a blanket answer, but anytime a player is dinged up or banged up and out my lineup it’s a concern,” Laviolette said. “I think it’s an opportunity for others and I always say that.”

Did the coach tell Pronger to seek more tests?

“It’s not my job,” Laviolette replied. “Like, we got great trainers in place, great doctors in place, and they got a lot more knowledge than I do. We’re talking about looking at X-rays, bone scans. Not me.”


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 03-17-2011 at 05:04 PM.
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Old
03-18-2011, 09:57 AM
  #237
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Jeff Carter is needed to get Philly into the POs with a good seeding. Agree, he is not clutch and not the best PO performer, but a hockey team needs all kinds. Clutch PO performers, and also a few that maybe dont do so well in the POs, but are absolutely required to get the team INTO the POs with a good seeding.

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03-18-2011, 10:55 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Jeff Carter is needed to get Philly into the POs with a good seeding. Agree, he is not clutch and not the best PO performer, but a hockey team needs all kinds. Clutch PO performers, and also a few that maybe dont do so well in the POs, but are absolutely required to get the team INTO the POs with a good seeding.
Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs. To win a Cup, Carter has to score.

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03-18-2011, 11:46 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs. To win a Cup, Carter has to score.
5/12 * 82 = 34.1

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03-18-2011, 11:51 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
5/12 * 82 = 34.1
I get it. You think Carter's disappearing in the playoffs is perfectly acceptable.

I don't.

Call it a difference of opinion; I just expect more from our so-called "best goal scorer." Namely, to be our best scorer when it matters most.

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03-18-2011, 11:53 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I get it. You think Carter's disappearing in the playoffs is perfectly acceptable.

I don't.

Call it a difference of opinion; I just expect more from our so-called "best goal scorer." Namely, to be our best scorer when it matters most.
I get it, you think 34 goal pace is "disappearing."

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03-18-2011, 11:58 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I get it, you think 34 goal pace is "disappearing."
Career Games Played: 41
Career goals: 12

12 (goals) / 41 (games played) = 0.2926829268

* 82 = 24.00


If you work out Jeff Carter's career goals per game for the NHL playoffs you get 24 goals over an 82 game pace. Which, for Jeff Carter, is bad. Not to mention, how many big goals did he score against Pitt or Chicago? You know, when we needed him to come through.

OH RIGHT! He didn't get the job done. But it's okay, because he was hurt and you love him anyway.

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03-18-2011, 12:05 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Career Games Played: 41
Career goals: 12

12 (goals) / 41 (games played) = 0.2926829268

* 82 = 24.00


If you work out Jeff Carter's career goals per game for the NHL playoffs you get 24 goals over an 82 game pace. Which, for Jeff Carter, is bad. Not to mention, how many big goals did he score against Pitt or Chicago? You know, when we needed him to come through.

OH RIGHT! He didn't get the job done. But it's okay, because he was hurt and you love him anyway.
Actually, it's alright because the importance you attach to "big goals" is misguided, thus how you end up using fallacies like "clutch" and "choking."

Lets throw out Carter's rookie year... because, he was a rookie and rookies have a tendency to hit the wall at the end of the year. Not to mention we were completely outmatched by the Sabres in that playoff series.

19 pts in 35 games isn't great, but it isn't bad given how dinged he was for over half of those games he played in.

You should also look into Gagne's first 41 playoff games.

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03-18-2011, 12:08 PM
  #244
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I don't think anyone can dispute Carter's playoffs haven't been quite up to par with his regular seasons. I also don't think he entirely disappears, and I'm not particularly a fan of "clutch" arguments. Briere is one of the like 10 people on earth that are genuinely clutch. I also don't discount Carter's injuries last year. I'm going to let this year's playoffs determine my verdict on Carter.

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03-18-2011, 12:11 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually, it's alright because the importance you attach to "big goals" is misguided, thus how you end up using fallacies like "clutch" and "choking."

Lets throw out Carter's rookie year... because, he was a rookie and rookies have a tendency to hit the wall at the end of the year. Not to mention we were completely outmatched by the Sabres in that playoff series.

19 pts in 35 games isn't great, but it isn't bad given how dinged he was for over half of those games he played in.

You should also look into Gagne's first 41 playoff games.
No, the importance isn't misguided. Big goals are the ones that, you know, win you hockey games and playoff series and ultimately championships.

How many times has Carter scored a big game tying goal or big game winning goal in the playoffs? How many times has he missed an open net or shot it right along the ice instead of elevating it in an opportunity where it could have swung a game and - who knows, maybe a series?

Carter doesn't get his job done in the playoffs when we need him to. Yeah, he's been pretty dinged up, but so have other forwards who managed to contribute with huge goals. It's really that simple.

I'm not saying he's a bad player or worthless, just that he needs to step the **** up in the playoffs and score when we need him to.


I look forward to revisiting this discussion when this year's run is over. Either he'll prove me wrong by actually playing like our best scorer, or you'll have an entertaining batch of fresh excuses.

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03-18-2011, 12:19 PM
  #246
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Mike Richards missed an open net in Game 6.

I don't really make "excuses," I live in the real world where distribution of goals happens in a predictable pattern and your reliance on a term like "big goals" is almost completely devoid of value. It's the same idiocy that leads to the "Jeff Carter only scores in blowouts" BS.

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03-18-2011, 12:22 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Mike Richards missed an open net in Game 6.
Everyone misses now and again. I can't think of anyone on this squad in recent years who's blown as many golden chances as Carter.

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03-18-2011, 12:31 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Everyone misses now and again. I can't think of anyone on this squad in recent years who's blown as many golden chances as Carter.
Simon Gagne used to be a playoff choke artist... remember that? Now he has multiple "big goals" on his resume. It's a ridiculous way to evaluate players because it's built entirely off of the fact that your brain detached from empirical data is *ing terrible at processing large volumes of information.

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03-18-2011, 12:38 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Simon Gagne used to be a playoff choke artist... remember that? Now he has multiple "big goals" on his resume. It's a ridiculous way to evaluate players because it's built entirely off of the fact that your brain detached from empirical data is *ing terrible at processing large volumes of information.
I don't really recall him being a playoff choke artist....

And yeah, he has plenty of big goals on his resume. OT winner against Tampa Bay, OT winner vs Boston, game 7 winner vs Boston all immediately come to mind.

Does Carter even have one goal with as much significance as any of those?

No.


Plus, Gagne's career GPG is also better, soo......



Carter is not as good in the playoffs as he is in the regular season, and pales in comparison to Gagne, Briere, and Richards. But his regular season numbers are so great! Too bad they don't translate to the postseason.

As I said, we'll see how it goes this year. He appears to be rolling well right now and healthy, so hopefully he gets nasty with it. I'm just not holding my breath, because I don't think he has the ability to bear down and get it done when the pressure's on.

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03-18-2011, 12:40 PM
  #250
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How about we just worry about our defense and the backend. Everything falls into place when you get that shored up.

At this point, we're turning into another version of the Caps from the last couple of years.

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