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ATD Chat Room III (all non-ATD topics here)

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Old
06-01-2011, 10:53 AM
  #876
vecens24
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
No. That would only give him 2 or 3 elite level seasons.
Those two or three elite level seasons would be comparable with almost any other goalie's top 2 seasons though.

I'd think he'd be one of the top 5 backups with a 40 team draft again. Which would mean he'd be close to borderline.

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06-01-2011, 11:54 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Those two or three elite level seasons would be comparable with almost any other goalie's top 2 seasons though.

I'd think he'd be one of the top 5 backups with a 40 team draft again. Which would mean he'd be close to borderline.
what's strange about all this, is that I would only be ready to call him a decent backup (not quite to the level you are saying, so let's say 50th-60th overall) in the ATD, but at the same time, I admit that it will be hard for the HHOF to keep out a guy with two Vezinas, a cup and (assumedly, if he wins the cup) a Smythe.

it's a better resume than Roger Crozier for sure, and having had Crozier just now, I can say he's an average backup, probably right at the #20 mark, so 60 overall.

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06-01-2011, 04:37 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
So if Thomas and the Bruins win the Cup (assuming he wins the Vezina) do we think he becomes an automatic starter in the ATD?
If he wins both, I think his 2 Vezinas and Cup helps him pass Vernon, who was an ATD starter this draft. Vernon is a multiple Stanley Cup champion who really wasn't the main reason either franchise won the cup despite his (weak) Conn Smythe trophy win.

But Vernon should not have been a starter, even in a 40-team draft. Hern should have been a starter!

Thomas would clearly pass in value these ATD 2011 backups who had won the Stanley Cup: Richter, Giguere, Fleury, Ward, Osgood and probably Roach.

Some goalies who never won the cup he will have surpassed in all-time value but, hardware aside, he certainly hasn't seemed better than, in terms of what one may think based on watching hockey. I am not at all convinced that in terms of career rather than peak, Thomas is as good as Vanbiesbrouck, Miller, Lundqvist, Kiprusoff or Vokoun. The latter have excelled based on their merits whereas Thomas has done well within a defensive system that supports his style of play. I think he's gotten more than his share of cred whereas the others haven't quite (yet?). Miller has a Vezina and Olympic MVP, Lundqvist is a three-time Vezina finalist and Olympic champion, the other aforementioned were simply spectacular but the team accomplishments didn't earn them deserving hardware and in the case of Vokoun playing in Nashville and Florida sure didn't help him with anything.

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06-01-2011, 05:02 PM
  #879
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Playing in Nashville and Florida definitely helped Vokoun's save percentages

Other than Vokoun, I more or less agree with what VI says.

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06-01-2011, 10:24 PM
  #880
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Thomas should go 1st overall next ATD draft if he would play like he did tonight.

Christ.

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06-01-2011, 11:46 PM
  #881
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That's what I've been saying.. Vancouver will dominate the series, but Thomas has the potential to steal it. Vancouver was dominating all night, more or less, but Thomas kept it 0-0 right until the end.. one mistake by Vancouver, and they're on the losing side of a game they by all rights should have won.

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06-02-2011, 12:06 AM
  #882
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That's what I've been saying.. Vancouver will dominate the series, but Thomas has the potential to steal it. Vancouver was dominating all night, more or less, but Thomas kept it 0-0 right until the end.. one mistake by Vancouver, and they're on the losing side of a game they by all rights should have won.
Vancouver was definately the better team tonight, but it wasn't dominating. Boston had their share of quality chances.

The referees played a huge part in the game, which nobody wants to see. Hopefully, they let them play, or at least call all the diving.

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06-02-2011, 12:10 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Vancouver was definately the better team tonight, but it wasn't dominating. Boston had their share of quality chances.

The referees played a huge part in the game, which nobody wants to see. Hopefully, they let them play, or at least call all the diving.
That dive by Thomas was hilarious..

Also, when can you tell me that Boston had ANY sustained pressure at EVEN STRENGTH? They had it on the PP, sure, but at ES? I barely saw them do anything in Vancouver's zone.

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06-02-2011, 12:29 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I didn't see it, but I do now. That is really too bad. At least we have what we have...
Hey All Time Draft folks how the heck is it going? Been a good while since I've been around these parts. Still going strong?

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06-02-2011, 12:33 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
That dive by Thomas was hilarious..

Also, when can you tell me that Boston had ANY sustained pressure at EVEN STRENGTH? They had it on the PP, sure, but at ES? I barely saw them do anything in Vancouver's zone.
Hey All Time Draft folks how the heck is it going? Been a good while since I've been around these parts. Still going strong?

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06-02-2011, 12:34 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
That dive by Thomas was hilarious..

Also, when can you tell me that Boston had ANY sustained pressure at EVEN STRENGTH? They had it on the PP, sure, but at ES? I barely saw them do anything in Vancouver's zone.
All this talk about Boston being the best 5 on 5 team in the league, too. The Canucks down to 5 D no less.

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06-02-2011, 01:01 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
All this talk about Boston being the best 5 on 5 team in the league, too. The Canucks down to 5 D no less.
The Bruins are not the best 5 on 5 team in the playoffs. Statistically, maybe.. and it breaks down entirely when you consider the teams they faced:

An inferior Canadiens team that was getting superior goaltending that took it to 7 games.

A Pronger-less Flyers team which has accounted for 18 of Boston's 48 even strength goals for (in other words, 37.5% of Boston's ES goals came in a very lopsided series sweep against a team without their best defenseman and badly outmatched goaltending).

A Tampa team that was allowing as many goals as they were getting.

Best even strength team my ASS.. 37.5% of those goals came in 21% of their actual games played. In other words, in every other game they have played, they have scored 30 ES goals in 15 GP.. or 2 goals per game.. that hardly inspires confidence when they're running a 7.5% PP against a far better offensive team.

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06-02-2011, 01:56 AM
  #888
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
Hey All Time Draft folks how the heck is it going? Been a good while since I've been around these parts. Still going strong?
Damn right it is!

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06-02-2011, 01:58 AM
  #889
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vancouver in 5 boys

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06-02-2011, 07:34 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by shawnmullin View Post
Hey All Time Draft folks how the heck is it going? Been a good while since I've been around these parts. Still going strong?
My ol' co-GM! Hope to see you drop by next January for ATD 2012!

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06-02-2011, 07:48 AM
  #891
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Next thing we'll hear, Shawn Mullin is actually Cognition..

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06-02-2011, 11:15 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
That dive by Thomas was hilarious..
It was pretty bad, but the Sedin dive was rediculous.

Quote:
Also, when can you tell me that Boston had ANY sustained pressure at EVEN STRENGTH? They had it on the PP, sure, but at ES? I barely saw them do anything in Vancouver's zone.
They had 5 or 6 shifts with sustained pressure at even strength.

The Bruins powerplay is just pathetic. They really need to stat using Seguin.

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06-02-2011, 12:17 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It was pretty bad, but the Sedin dive was rediculous.
Can you blame him? They're not calling dives, so they'd be idiots to not take advantage of that. I would dive, you would dive.. and don't tell me you wouldn't, either. Everyone dives when they don't call it.

Quote:
They had 5 or 6 shifts with sustained pressure at even strength.

The Bruins powerplay is just pathetic. They really need to stat using Seguin.
5 or 6 compared to 50 or 60..

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06-02-2011, 12:24 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Can you blame him? They're not calling dives, so they'd be idiots to not take advantage of that. I would dive, you would dive.. and don't tell me you wouldn't, either. Everyone dives when they don't call it.
Cheat whenever you can to get away with it to get ahead the easy way. See articles about it all the time with your line of thinking when people are ripping each other off, cheating on exams, and doing crap like last night.

More evidence of the slow erosion of our civilization.

You can speak for yourself, but I would never dive under any circumstances.

My dad would have kicked my ass for behaviour like that growing up.

It is dishonest. Not just to others but to yourself because even if you "win" you'll never know how you measured up if you didn't cheat. Makes victory a hollow thing.

I was always taught to try my best all the time and that way even if I ended up losing I would know I left everything out there. No questions to ask myself or regret later. There is truth in it. And that is what sport and sportsmanship is supposed to be about.


Last edited by BraveCanadian: 06-02-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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Old
06-02-2011, 01:27 PM
  #895
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Can you blame him? They're not calling dives, so they'd be idiots to not take advantage of that.
I do blame him. Anyone who dives has absolutely no pride. Seriously, who has so little pride that they are willing to flop around like that just to try to draw a dishonest penalty? If one of my team mates dove, I'd let him have it.

I also blame the referees. There shoul have been at least a dozen calls for diving last game. The reason they don't make the call is because they are affraid. That's partly the NHL's fault for not supporting them, but eventuall the referees have to grow a pair and get the game in order.

I also blame the coaches for allowing and encouraging it. There sure as hell is no diving on my team. If you draw a penalty by diving, you do not set foot on the ice for that powerplay. If you deliberately turn to suck a guy into a check from behind, you serve the same suspension he does. Nobody ever dives or turns more than a couple times per season, so I've never had to really crack down.

Lastly, I blame the fans. I would ever cheer for a guy who was a diver. Every time he drew a penalty, I'd boo him.


There's just no honor and no pride in sports anymore.....

Quote:
I would dive, you would dive.. and don't tell me you wouldn't, either. Everyone dives when they don't call it.
Most dives occur when a player has given up on a puck. They don't think they can get to a loose puck or beat a defenseman wide, so they give up an try to draw a penalty instead. Allowing, or worse, encouraging, players to give up like that is rediculous.

I pride myself in being a player who is very tough to knock of my feet. I woul never diver do draw a penalty.

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06-02-2011, 03:24 PM
  #896
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Anyone have any idea if and when the search function will work again?

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06-02-2011, 03:40 PM
  #897
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My ol' co-GM! Hope to see you drop by next January for ATD 2012!
Right in the middle of hockey season! Tougher now that I'm doing WHL games. Is it only once a year now?

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06-02-2011, 03:45 PM
  #898
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Right in the middle of hockey season! Tougher now that I'm doing WHL games. Is it only once a year now?
Only once per year

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Old
06-02-2011, 05:09 PM
  #899
jarek
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You're at a major competitive disadvantage if you're not diving and the other team is, and is getting away with it. You say that you won't know how your team measures up if you were to have played fairly.. well, guess what, if the other team isn't playing fairly, and you are, and they're getting away with it, then you also won't know how you measure up, because one side would be at a competitive advantage.

I don't care about pride or honor. If diving one or two times will win me the cup, damn right I'll do it. I would do it until the refs grew a pair of balls and started calling it.

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Old
06-02-2011, 06:20 PM
  #900
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I'm going to side mostly with jarek here. Why give the other team a competitive advantage? That's what you're doing if they are getting away with dives and you're not.

The other thing is, diving for no reason, yeah, I agree it's 100% dishonorable and I would handle it like Dreakmur says he does. However, there is also "honorable" diving, IMO, for example, if you are legitimately fouled and the only way the ref is going to call it is if you go down. This would not be a problem if the rules were called in the first place.

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