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Old
04-06-2011, 01:26 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by BigEyedPhish View Post
He is a streaky player because his ice time is streaky. Ryan Shannon is on a Corey Locke level of offensive awareness, and Corey Locke is a DAMN good playmaker, and better than O'brien or anyone else for that matter. Is he as a complete player as them? Absolutely not..

The only reason Shannon is in the NHL is because he can bring some Offense.. When Condra/Greening/O'Brien play, are they playing for that same reason? no
The offensive awarness is there but the ability to execute isn't. You are correct in the fact that both Shannon and Locke have higher offenisve IQ's than the other sens prospects listed. However those sens prospects will create more offense for the sens because they have a lot more intangibles to their game that in turn creates the opporutnities to put up points.

Shannon won't be given anywhere near the same opporutnities after Clouston is gone. Clouston loves him as a player and that is the reason why he is played as much as he is. I honestly think that Clouston is trying to live his dream of being an NHL player through Shannon. No other coach would play Shannon on the 1st pk, 1st power play, majority of 4-on-4 and most of OT as well play him a center.

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04-06-2011, 01:52 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
The offensive awarness is there but the ability to execute isn't. You are correct in the fact that both Shannon and Locke have higher offenisve IQ's than the other sens prospects listed. However those sens prospects will create more offense for the sens because they have a lot more intangibles to their game that in turn creates the opporutnities to put up points.

Shannon won't be given anywhere near the same opporutnities after Clouston is gone. Clouston loves him as a player and that is the reason why he is played as much as he is. I honestly think that Clouston is trying to live his dream of being an NHL player through Shannon. No other coach would play Shannon on the 1st pk, 1st power play, majority of 4-on-4 and most of OT as well play him a center.
Why does it matter who puts him out there? The fact is, once he's on the ice it's up to him to play and play well. The coach is not lacing them up. Over the past 22 games, when given the time and responsibility, Shannon has played well in all the situations you named.

All Shannon is doing is making it more difficult for the Sens organization in terms of whether to offer a contract while increasing his value to other interested teams. Not a bad situation to be in.

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04-06-2011, 01:56 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
The offensive awarness is there but the ability to execute isn't. You are correct in the fact that both Shannon and Locke have higher offenisve IQ's than the other sens prospects listed. However those sens prospects will create more offense for the sens because they have a lot more intangibles to their game that in turn creates the opporutnities to put up points.

Shannon won't be given anywhere near the same opporutnities after Clouston is gone. Clouston loves him as a player and that is the reason why he is played as much as he is. I honestly think that Clouston is trying to live his dream of being an NHL player through Shannon. No other coach would play Shannon on the 1st pk, 1st power play, majority of 4-on-4 and most of OT as well play him a center.
When you look at the lineup since the trade deadline there just wasn't anyone else to take up those minutes so I don't really blame CC. Butler, Greening & Condra have come along nicely but there are still a couple of positions where we need more talented players such as 2nd line center which is why Shannon is playing there. I'm not a fan of his, I like his skill level but IMO he is too small & too soft to make a significant difference on this team. It's very very difficult to play consistently at such a high level in every game & every team is searching for players that can, I don't think he is one of them.

He may score a few more goals or set up a few goals but I would much prefer a bigger guy who can compete on every shift, in every situation. I would be surprised if he is re-signed but who knows, it might depend on who they draft or who they target in free agency. I think Regin, Condra & O'Brien will eventually put him out of work here. If he needs to play with better players he needs to make the guys he is playing with better too. The cream always rises to the top, if they can't do well on the 4th line what makes anyone think he will do better on the 1st line. Good players find a way to win, they fine a way to score or setup goals, they don't blame their teammates or wish they had better players to play with, you do with what you got.

Not everybody can play on the 1st line, there are only 3 spots, so someone has to play on the other lines & it's up to them to succeed & exceed expectations & play better to move up. Also these are the players we have, as a player you have to find a way to succeed with these players, get him a winger or play him with this guy, you can't always do that. Great players make others around them better, the rest of the players are inter-changeable & should be in that search for that great player. I think Colin Greening will continue to get better & some day be a great player, he seems to have the intangibles & drive, he can play on any line in any situation. We need to find more players like that.

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04-06-2011, 02:06 PM
  #179
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Shannon is an excellent skater. Very fast, very smooth. He definitely lacks size but he's well worth the 625K we pay him.

But, since he's had a career year this year, he'll probably be looking for over $1 million, and I don't think he's worth that. Especially on our rebuilding team where prospects with higher ceilings should be given priority.

I think we should let him walk and just wish him all the best. With his skill set and skating ability, he'd probably do really well in the KHL.

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04-06-2011, 02:30 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
Shannon is an excellent skater. Very fast, very smooth. He definitely lacks size but he's well worth the 625K we pay him.

But, since he's had a career year this year, he'll probably be looking for over $1 million, and I don't think he's worth that. Especially on our rebuilding team where prospects with higher ceilings should be given priority.

I think we should let him walk and just wish him all the best. With his skill set and skating ability, he'd probably do really well in the KHL.
I agree with everything, but without the $1M caveat.

If Shannon is signed, for any amount, he takes the spot of someone younger and that hurts the rebuild. The only way I would sign Shannon is if there just aren't enough players in the system to fill out Ottawa and Binghamton.

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04-06-2011, 03:26 PM
  #181
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All I know is there are plenty of guys in the NHL whose stats are comparable or even worse than Shannon's and they are making $1mil to $3.5 a year. And there are many in the range of $600K to $925K too.

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04-06-2011, 03:30 PM
  #182
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For me is not the salary (it will be 700 or so), its the roster spot. If we sign him he takes at least the 13. Regin may not be ready so that might work out. However, Greening, Condra, Butler and probably Smith have made the team. Add in Alfie, Spezza, Michalek, Neil, Foligno, Regin, Winchester and any UFA will mean Draft picks and other prospects are up against it.

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04-06-2011, 05:30 PM
  #183
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Shannon makes a lot of good things happen out there with his speed.
We have a lot of guys that willbe quality 3rd and 4th line guys but none of them have anything resembling Shannon's speed, nor do they really seem the types that can jump up a line or 2 when needed.

Personally i think Shannon has earned his spot on this team.

I like Winchester and i like Condra but i now simply think Shannon is more valuable to us.

Smith, Foligno, Condra, Neil, Regin, Winchester im not sure how many clone-like players we need. i like all those guys but i think you need guys that can bring something a little unique.

Neil Can fight anyone and play on the 3rd/4th line on any team.
Foligno is an odd player with a really interesting skill set, if he puts it all together he's a great third liner.
Regin disappinted so much this year, i just dont know, but im inclined to believe he's quite a bit better than he was this year, just not as good as id hoped. Good speed, balance puck protection and tenacity.
Condra, Smith and Winchester are all nice players but dont do anything particularly distinctive. I'd likely keep Smith due to his size and toughness over the other 2.

Then Shannon over Condra or Winchester.

So Neil, Foligno, Regin, Smith, Shannon IMO should have 5 of those spots locked up.
Leaving 1 spot for Condra, Winchester or IMO Carkner.

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04-06-2011, 05:51 PM
  #184
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Shannon and Lessard
replaced by
Regin and Wick

Greening-Spezza-Butler
Michalek-Da Costa-Alfie
Foligno-Regin-Condra
Wick-Smith/Winnie-Neil

Forward Callups: Silfverberg, JOB, K-Dawg

Wick needs to play on the PP and earn his time on the top 9.

In terms of the direction of the team, I don't see a spot for Shannon - who is also due for a raise for his play in the last two months.

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04-06-2011, 06:19 PM
  #185
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UFA - Spezza - Michalek
??? - Regin - Alfredsson
Foligno - Shannon - Neil
??? - Smith/Winchester - ???

??? - Butler, Condra, Da Costa, Daugavins, Greening, O'Brien, Silfverberg, Wick
(Note that this is assuming Murray actually is going after a top-6 winger)

Either way, I think Shannon fits. He's a solid player, and I'd rather not just give out as many roster spots as possible. If Shannon comes into camp and earns a spot, let him keep it. Follow the Detroit model of 'overripening' prospects. Besides, there's going to be injuries, and that'll open up spots during the season for young guys to get a chance to play.

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04-06-2011, 06:30 PM
  #186
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The problem I have is that, if we sign Shannon and Svatos to one-way contracts, it effectively prevents some of the younger guys from getting on the team, since they will be on two-way contracts. Even if they deserve it more, they will be stuck in the AHL when they should be in Ottawa, just due to roster limitations.

And I really fear that Murray will do exactly that. Given his sense of "loyalty", he tends to resign older players rather than walking away when he should.

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04-06-2011, 08:38 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by HockeyTownUSA View Post
What does any of this mean?
He cannot handle the pressure of playing when it matters. He doesn't choose to not show up, he is a mental midget with confidence issues, his biggest barrier is his mental makeup worse than his size.

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04-06-2011, 09:28 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
The problem I have is that, if we sign Shannon and Svatos to one-way contracts, it effectively prevents some of the younger guys from getting on the team, since they will be on two-way contracts. Even if they deserve it more, they will be stuck in the AHL when they should be in Ottawa, just due to roster limitations.

And I really fear that Murray will do exactly that. Given his sense of "loyalty", he tends to resign older players rather than walking away when he should.
We only have 8 forwards signed. We can afford to sign one or two guys while still having 3-4 spots for young guys + injury callups.

I'm not saying Shannon is the best signing for one of those spots, but we don't need to leave five spots open for rookies.

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04-07-2011, 08:06 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
He cannot handle the pressure of playing when it matters. He doesn't choose to not show up, he is a mental midget with confidence issues, his biggest barrier is his mental makeup worse than his size.
This could not be any more wrong. The reason he has made it this far is because he is so mentally tough. At every level coaches have told him he would not make it, and at every level he has proved them wrong. Most guys would have packed it in long ago vs a guy who is confident and believes in himself. You have no clue.

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04-07-2011, 08:54 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armani View Post
Shannon and Lessard
replaced by
Regin and Wick

Greening-Spezza-Butler
Michalek-Da Costa-Alfie
Foligno-Regin-Condra
Wick-Smith/Winnie-Neil

Forward Callups: Silfverberg, JOB, K-Dawg

Wick needs to play on the PP and earn his time on the top 9.

In terms of the direction of the team, I don't see a spot for Shannon - who is also due for a raise for his play in the last two months.
Wick? The guy guy can't play on the forth line at all and doesn't seem good enough to be on the third. Da Costa needs at least a year in the A.

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04-07-2011, 09:07 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Wick? The guy guy can't play on the forth line at all and doesn't seem good enough to be on the third. Da Costa needs at least a year in the A.
Agreed, with that line up why not put Wick in bingo again so he can earn his playing time and move Smith to the LW. Other than that the line-up looks good other than maybe put Regin 2c and Da Costa 3c to start and she how he does.

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04-07-2011, 09:25 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Wick? The guy guy can't play on the forth line at all and doesn't seem good enough to be on the third. Da Costa needs at least a year in the A.
Wick isnt a 4th liner...Everytime he has been put with skilled guys he has created scoring chances...I would like to see him get a few shifts with Spezza to see what he can do scoring wise...you cant play a guy for 6 mins with Lessard and expect ANYTHING out of him

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04-07-2011, 09:35 AM
  #193
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Re-building teams need tweener guys, and that's where I see Shannon fitting in. It's not like he's an old man either. Give him a moderate pay raise, play him with skilled players, and you can probably get 20/20 out of him next season and the next. By that time the ship should be righted.

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04-07-2011, 09:42 AM
  #194
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Wick isnt a 4th liner...Everytime he has been put with skilled guys he has created scoring chances...I would like to see him get a few shifts with Spezza to see what he can do scoring wise...you cant play a guy for 6 mins with Lessard and expect ANYTHING out of him
This. I don't know why they're even playing Lessard. Just put him in the press box and let some of the kids play hockey. WTF does Lessard do out there anyway except try to run guys and fall down? His skating is just pitiful.

And don't even get me started on his stamina...

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04-07-2011, 10:42 AM
  #195
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This. I don't know why they're even playing Lessard. Just put him in the press box and let some of the kids play hockey. WTF does Lessard do out there anyway except try to run guys and fall down? His skating is just pitiful.

And don't even get me started on his stamina...
My guess: Add some toughness to protect the rookies, plus him getting called up doesn't hurt Bingo as much as us calling up another skilled guy.

But yeah, the guy is a bad hockey player.

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04-07-2011, 11:53 AM
  #196
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My guess: Add some toughness to protect the rookies, plus him getting called up doesn't hurt Bingo as much as us calling up another skilled guy.

But yeah, the guy is a bad hockey player.
I'm going to say its 99% about not hurting Bingo, which has been the right move to do.

About the question of the thread - I'm a little torn. He's a fairly useful guy to keep around as your 13th forward if he remains this cheap, but I also doubt we would miss him that much if he was gone and it meant more ice time for some of the young guys.

I do think people need to be a bit more realistic about which young guys are in the lineup next year though. Wick really hasn't done enough to be expected to start in the NHL.

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04-07-2011, 12:34 PM
  #197
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I'm going to say its 99% about not hurting Bingo, which has been the right move to do.

About the question of the thread - I'm a little torn. He's a fairly useful guy to keep around as your 13th forward if he remains this cheap, but I also doubt we would miss him that much if he was gone and it meant more ice time for some of the young guys.

I do think people need to be a bit more realistic about which young guys are in the lineup next year though. Wick really hasn't done enough to be expected to start in the NHL.
Shannon won't be on the Sens if he's the 13th forward. He's only productive in a top six role alongside an elite talent like Spezza.

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04-07-2011, 01:42 PM
  #198
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IMO either one of Winchester or Regin or both should be replaced with Condra, Greening, Butler and Da Costa.

Winchester should definately be dropped for one of the players above.

I believe BM will not resign Shannon and instead bring in an UFA(as he's talked about in some of his interviews).

I would love to see Richards land in Ottawa (pipedream), but instead I think BM goes after Leino, Cole,etc...

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04-07-2011, 10:51 PM
  #199
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This could not be any more wrong. The reason he has made it this far is because he is so mentally tough. At every level coaches have told him he would not make it, and at every level he has proved them wrong. Most guys would have packed it in long ago vs a guy who is confident and believes in himself. You have no clue.
Sure, to get here...then what? He does zip when he needs to perform and when nothing is at stake he performs. He doubts himself and plays with little confidence. When he is confident, he is effective. Problem is, those moments are few and far in between. He looks like Steve Sullivan or St.Louis at times and then he simply falls off the map. That's the difference between scrubs like Shannon and other small guys like Steve Sullivan. They are inconsistent and that tends to be confidence issues.

Maybe you need to get a clue and try and understand what it takes to be a legit NHLer.

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04-07-2011, 10:53 PM
  #200
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Sure, to get here...then what? He does zip when he needs to perform and when nothing is at stake he performs. He doubts himself and plays with little confidence. When he is confident, he is effective. Problem is, those moments are few and far in between. He looks like Steve Sullivan or St.Louis at times and then he simply falls off the map. That's the difference between scrubs like Shannon and other small guys like Steve Sullivan. They are inconsistent and that tends to be confidence issues.

Maybe you need to get a clue and try and understand what it takes to be a legit NHLer.
He looked pretty damn invisible against the habs as well. He is a streaky player and basically everything you said is an accurate depiction of him.

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