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Should the Wings trade Filppula in the off-season?

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Old
03-16-2011, 03:40 PM
  #76
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I'm back.

What's the verdict?


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03-16-2011, 03:47 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'm back.

What's the verdict?

Verdict of this thread:

On July 1st, trade Filppula, Ericsson, and a 1st for Bogosian.

I think that sums up this thread pretty well.


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03-16-2011, 04:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
You're actually going to argue that Homer is better than Filppula defensively because those numbers suggest it's true?

I'm going to give you the opportunity to save face and retract that statement....

I wasn't trying to argue Homer is better defensively, I just compared every player you did with there playoff points per game. I was not at all trying to compare Homer and Filppula, I was just trying to show stats to back my case that he turns the puck over all the time and that he isn't as greatly rounded player as everyone suggests.

Including all forwards that have played at least half the games on the Wings this year:
Filppula = last in hits per game
Filppula = second most in turnovers per game (How is that reliable??)

The Wings have played 23 different teams this year...

vs. top 15 teams(win%) the wings have played this year - 35GP 6G 9A 15P -3
vs. bottem 8 teams(win%) wings have played this year - 23GP 7G 10A 17P +4

Im sorry I don't know what else I can write to explain that Filppula is not half as good of a player as people give him credit for

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Old
03-16-2011, 04:24 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dangler1340 View Post
I wasn't trying to argue Homer is better defensively, I just compared every player you did with there playoff points per game. I was not at all trying to compare Homer and Filppula, I was just trying to show stats to back my case that he turns the puck over all the time and that he isn't as greatly rounded player as everyone suggests.

Including all forwards that have played at least half the games on the Wings this year:
Filppula = last in hits per game
Filppula = second most in turnovers per game (How is that reliable??)

The Wings have played 23 different teams this year...

vs. top 15 teams(win%) the wings have played this year - 35GP 6G 9A 15P -3
vs. bottem 8 teams(win%) wings have played this year - 23GP 7G 10A 17P +4

Im sorry I don't know what else I can write to explain that Filppula is not half as good of a player as people give him credit for
We're making progress - hits and turnovers are not the most reliable of stats because every arena's stat guy judges them different. But I think if you were to pull the production numbers for every player on the roster (I don't know which teams you're using for top and bottom), you'd see that EVERYONE produces more against bad teams and less against good teams. That's how it goes. It's easier to score against lousy teams. My point is that Filppula's career points per game is higher in the playoffs than in the regular season, and bad teams don't make the playoffs.

For example, Datsyuk has 2 goals and 2 assists the last 2 games - against Edmonton and St. Louis. The three games before that he was scoreless, when they played San Jose, Phoenix, and LA. And he makes more than twice what Flip does. By your logic, should we dump him too?

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03-16-2011, 05:35 PM
  #80
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I missed the part where progress was made. Dangler clearly has a strong bias against Flip, as evidenced by his distortion of stats and enormous lack of context.

I mean, in this specific example, he is trying to show that Filppula is not as good defensively as people think because of his number of giveaways. Please, anyone being taken in by this, take a moment to think about that.

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Old
03-16-2011, 06:30 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
There are teams out there with mediocre talent where he could be an improvement on what they have now. $3 million isn't a terrible amount for a player of his skill and experience. He might actually be better off playing somewhere else where he's utilized more.
I'm sure there are teams that would be willing to take a gamble on Flip just because of what happened with Leino.

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03-16-2011, 07:04 PM
  #82
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/endthread

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Old
03-16-2011, 07:14 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
/endthread
Agreed.

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Old
03-16-2011, 07:16 PM
  #84
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/endthread
I just got interested.

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Old
03-16-2011, 07:19 PM
  #85
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Agreed.
Haha, hypocrite!

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
We're making progress - hits and turnovers are not the most reliable of stats because every arena's stat guy judges them different. But I think if you were to pull the production numbers for every player on the roster (I don't know which teams you're using for top and bottom), you'd see that EVERYONE produces more against bad teams and less against good teams. That's how it goes. It's easier to score against lousy teams. My point is that Filppula's career points per game is higher in the playoffs than in the regular season, and bad teams don't make the playoffs.

For example, Datsyuk has 2 goals and 2 assists the last 2 games - against Edmonton and St. Louis. The three games before that he was scoreless, when they played San Jose, Phoenix, and LA. And he makes more than twice what Flip does. By your logic, should we dump him too?
So your telling me that every other rinks stat guys just give Filppula more turnovers and less hits then the rest of the Wings??? Ya your right all of his turnovers this year are just due to a faulty stat guy.

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
I missed the part where progress was made. Dangler clearly has a strong bias against Flip, as evidenced by his distortion of stats and enormous lack of context.

I mean, in this specific example, he is trying to show that Filppula is not as good defensively as people think because of his number of giveaways. Please, anyone being taken in by this, take a moment to think about that.
I don't like Filppula, yea weird, thats why I started this thread....but it didn't come from nowhere....I've watched just about every single game of the wings the last 10 years, and I'm sick of how soft Filppula is, how much he turns the puck over, and how overrated he is. And how are all of my stats distorted and out of context and yours aren't??
If you turn the puck over as much as he does, are as soft as he is in the corners and never wins battles as a CENTER, and doesn't play his body (as evidence of the distorted stats I posted earlier) he ISN'T THAT GOOD DEFENSIVELY and he doesn't belong as a 2nd line center....which is the whole reason why I opened this thread and what I posted at the beginning. So what I was trying to get across this whole time was if he isn't going to materialize into a 2nd line center trade him as a piece in a deal or free up cap space to get a good D man, winger, or a real 2nd line center.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Dangler1340 View Post
So your telling me that every other rinks stat guys just give Filppula more turnovers and less hits then the rest of the Wings??? Ya your right all of his turnovers this year are just due to a faulty stat guy.
Points are a much better indicator. Points are points, and some ridiculous Anaheim scorekeeper can't screw with them.

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Old
03-16-2011, 11:17 PM
  #89
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You definition of what makes a forward good or bad defensively is much different than the rest of the hockey world, Dangler.

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03-16-2011, 11:28 PM
  #90
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I would assess Flip as defensively responsible. He has the speed. At times, he shows really good backchecking work ethic. I think he's got a good general idea about he he's supposed to cover and where he should be. However, I think Flips defense gets considerably worse in certain areas of the ice (the tough areas): A long the boards in his own, in front of his net, and behind his net. He shies away from scrums, which might be acceptable if you're a 65-point guy, but not when you are a 45-point guy on a team where little guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg skate right into the storms with regularity.

I think the best way to describe Flip is that he's a solid two-way center who skates well and can pass the puck.

I think he has value. I think he's about average as second line centers go (which isn't all that great for recent Wings' second liners). I don't think he's overpaid. But I also think that if you could trade him to fill another lead (scoring winger), then I think it makes sense.

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Old
03-17-2011, 06:21 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I would assess Flip as defensively responsible. He has the speed. At times, he shows really good backchecking work ethic. I think he's got a good general idea about he he's supposed to cover and where he should be. However, I think Flips defense gets considerably worse in certain areas of the ice (the tough areas): A long the boards in his own, in front of his net, and behind his net. He shies away from scrums, which might be acceptable if you're a 65-point guy, but not when you are a 45-point guy on a team where little guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg skate right into the storms with regularity.

I think the best way to describe Flip is that he's a solid two-way center who skates well and can pass the puck.

I think he has value. I think he's about average as second line centers go (which isn't all that great for recent Wings' second liners). I don't think he's overpaid. But I also think that if you could trade him to fill another lead (scoring winger), then I think it makes sense.
I think it depends on how much we would have to pay that winger. If we have to go up to 5M then I am not so sure, because I think Filppula produces quite well for his cap hit.
I also think it will be interesting to see how he does in the playoffs, cause it seems like he is doing better in the playoffs than regular season.

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03-17-2011, 07:42 PM
  #92
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Upping his trade value a little bit. :-P

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03-18-2011, 04:36 AM
  #93
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Flip is about as average as you can get on this team along with Cleary. Average cap-hit, decent enough in all areas of the ice, scores an average amount of points. Can play in all situations without truely excelling, but also without being a liability. I'd say he's a decent enough guy with a decent cap-hit. You need those guys on your team as well, and I for one am really glad that our average players are as versatile as they are.

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Old
03-21-2011, 08:53 PM
  #94
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Trade Filppula? Yeah, okay.

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03-21-2011, 09:22 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Trade Filppula? Yeah, okay.
To be fair, this thread would not have been started if he played like this more than once or twice a year. I'm a big fan of his, but he's got to figure out how to bring this game consistently. Clearly he's got the skills.

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03-21-2011, 09:33 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
To be fair, this thread would not have been started if he played like this more than once or twice a year. I'm a big fan of his, but he's got to figure out how to bring this game consistently. Clearly he's got the skills.
Yeah, really. We've seen Fil's movie before and we have a pretty good idea of how it's gonna end.

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Old
03-21-2011, 09:36 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
To be fair, this thread would not have been started if he played like this more than once or twice a year. I'm a big fan of his, but he's got to figure out how to bring this game consistently. Clearly he's got the skills.
He looked as dominant as I've ever seen tonight, especially in the 3rd. He was insane, now to me it seems he only brings that level when one of Dats/Hank are out because he feels like he needs to step up. Why doesn't he bring that every night because clearly he's capable of being a dominant player if he wants. His speed, skill and strength tonight were all very evident.

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Old
03-21-2011, 09:48 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Trade Filppula? Yeah, okay.
if only you've been so quick to point out how terrible he was last couple months.

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Old
03-21-2011, 10:05 PM
  #99
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Invisible for months on end and all of a sudden everything's peachy because he gets a couple tap-ins and has a single dominant period. The knock on Filppula isn't his talent, it's his work ethic and consistency.

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03-21-2011, 10:07 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Dogkota View Post
Invisible for months on end and all of a sudden everything's peachy because he gets a couple tap-ins and has a single dominant period. The knock on Filppula isn't his talent, it's his work ethic and consistency.
Really??

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