HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2011, 01:35 PM
  #251
billy blaze
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Who cares if Hulsizer is worth $300M, $600M , $1B, or even $50B Enough of the guessing.

The bottom line is that regardless of how much Hulsizer may be worth... The only thing anyone should care about is that he is nothing but a cheapskate and is not willing to spead anything on this team.

"I love hockey, I have played hockey, and I love the Coyotes" SO WHAT! Your still a cheap (fill in the blank ). If Hulsizer actually cared about keeping the team in Glendale he would have wrote a cheque for whatever Bettman was asking for, and he would already be the owner. No fuss, no muss, no bonds, not GWI.

Compare Hulsizer to Chipman who at last count was willing to pay $170M for the Coyotes, or to Basillie who was going to pay $250M for the team. Why? Because they wanted to own the team. Sure they didn't want it in Glendale, but they still wanted it. Hulsizer doesn't care one bit about the team, he's just looking for a deal to get his hands on a team. Why do you think Hulsizer is only offering $70M of his own money for the team? Because according to most experts, that's all it really worth. ( For comparison there was an offer for Dallas of $110M ) But the NHL wants more than that for the team and the potential owner thay have is just too cheap. Hulsizer could end this mess with one stroke of a pen. Anyone who thinks Hulsizer is doing this out of the goodness of his heart is delusional.
not all his own, apparently his partners would be putting some "beaucoup dolares" into the deal

billy blaze is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 01:47 PM
  #252
DekeTretiak
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: State of Expectation
Country: Canada
Posts: 62
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitbulI View Post
The NHL will own this franchise for as long as it takes as long as there is some positive movement going on. They do not view moving to Winnipeg as "Positive" movement.
The NHL is all 30 member clubs. Their financial ability to own the franchise at the current burn rate of money is not infinite. I believe the other 29 owners were OK with taking over the Coyotes on a strictly time-limited basis.

How long do you think that the Blue Jackets, Panthers, Islanders, Thrashers, Predators, and Stars can afford to support the Coyotes before their own financial well-being is threatened?

The End is Nigh. Shoalts believes until the end of this year's playoffs.

DekeTretiak is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 01:53 PM
  #253
King Woodballs
Registered User
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 34,014
vCash: 500
Been gone for three days and looks like nothing has changed haha

King Woodballs is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:14 PM
  #254
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 33,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpz View Post
With all due respect, there's 15 yrs of imagination at work here. What's that resulted in?
Aye, thats where you and I differ I guess Grumpz. I havent seen anything even remotely imaginative or creative at play in Phoenix with the exception of Ellmans real estate development & Moyes' accounting practices. The team itself was just a prop. A Charlie McCarthy puppet whose strings were being pulled by self serving ventriloquist's.


Last edited by Killion: 03-13-2011 at 02:37 PM.
Killion is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:21 PM
  #255
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
I removed the geography comments. There's plenty of business fodder here without having to go there.

 
Old
03-13-2011, 02:23 PM
  #256
XX
It's finally over
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jump City!
Country: United States
Posts: 43,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeTretiak View Post

How long do you think that the Blue Jackets, Panthers, Islanders, Thrashers, Predators, and Stars can afford to support the Coyotes before their own financial well-being is threatened?
What does this have to do with anything? None of those teams inherently support the Coyotes, or have anything to do with the team, than the other clubs in the NHL. Everyone pays into the revenue pot and gets a cut. That's it. It's not as if the Thrashers have a gun to their head demanding they give money to Phoenix.

XX is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:24 PM
  #257
Jesus Christ Horburn
Registered User
 
Jesus Christ Horburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 13,942
vCash: 500
Was John Shannon the one who reported that March 15th was some sort of internal deadline?

Coincidentally, COG hasn't put up the agenda for their March 15th meeting.

Jesus Christ Horburn is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:26 PM
  #258
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Yes, I think there were some figures about the net worth of guys like Koules, Barrie, and Del Biaggio. Barrie's is negative at this point, I believe.

GC-- what you're ignoring is that generally very wealthy people are attached to an entity that is recognized for generating a lot of revenue and profit. Thomson is attached to Thomson-Reuters. Balsillie is attached to RIM. Gates is attached to Microsoft. Anschutz has a group of companies, including AEG--- so you can follow the trail. Ilitch owns Little Caesar's Pizza and some teams, and Entertainment businesses. Laurie's had wealth coming from the Walton family; and Leipold's wife is of SC Johnson fame. Molson is Molson. Melnyk and Katz? Yes, we can "dig up" the entities, can't we?


You tell me what Vinik or Hulsizer owned. How about Barrie or Koules?


In other words, if you can't find one large company or a group of companies, you're not going to find many billionaires, are you?
1. Respecfully, I think you are working from a view of the financial world circa 1980 or so. You seem to thnk that the only way to amass gigantic wealth is by owning some kind of big business. While that is certainly true, that stopped being the only way a long, long time ago. John Paulson is worth $12 billion, but you can't go into one of his shops on the corner. There are many hedge fund managers who are on the published list of billionaires, despite owning nothing but the companies that run their funds. THere are tons of those guys that fly under the radar because neither Forbes nor anyone can truly know what their net worth is. If you are a public company founder, it is easy. Many, many times, it is impossible to know, especially in the murky world of hedge funds. That was my point. That does not even count the folks who own private business or private equity investment firms. And most of the public would have never heard of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Good grief, GSC.

The "Business of Hockey" in Glendale, AZ is as inextricably linked to the finances and politics of the municipality as could ever have been imagined. Consider that to support the "Business of Hockey", this city of 250,000 has the following issues to concern itself with: a) trying to float a bond for $116 million; b) has had recent downgrading of their credit status due in large part to increasing commitments on their tax base and; c) has not identified the source of another >$100 million in likely commitments for the "arena management", much of which is likely to come from the same tax base. Still, if you think that the fact that the City of Glendale will likely need to make choices about how to cut "what may be a bloated city budget" to serve the financial interests of a new NHL franchise owner is not relevant for the "Business of Hockey", then I must disagree.
I was cavalier in addressing this before. It is an unsupportable POV from any reasonable perspective IMO. What difference does it make to hockey business if CoG has to lay off firemen or close pools. I will be frank with you - this entire line of discussion has been raised by people with a clearly stated agenda that has nothing to do with the plight of the CoG taxpayer. Maybe you have some small-government preference that you wish to raise here (giving you the benefit of the doubt), but the vast majority of discussion about city services or budgets is as disingenuous as can be. I would bet real folding money that, after this is all said and done, none of the people screaming about CoG swimming pool closures and budget pressures, etc., etc. will ever pay the slightest attention to it again. That is why the poster who admitted as much a few threads ago really deserves kudos.

What matters here is whether the bonds will sell (as I freely conceded in my initial post). Whether the COG needs to close swimming pools or raise taxes (which they can always do) or sell land or cut other costs is of no consequence to the transaction. None.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Frankly, I think its time for the man to make a public declaration, tell us who his minority partners are, explain why the deal was crafted the way it was, why he's seemingly unwilling to finance the purchase of the team himself etc. He's raised a lot of hackles, more questions than answers.
Here is the thing, K.

Exactly what does that serve? Does anyone seriously think that GWI would hear him, and suddenly announce "we give!"? Would it sell another ticket, now or in the future, or would his future corporate partners (to whom, as you note, he has probably already spoken) have heard it already?

THe general rule in making public statements/appearances is this - what is the purpose, and what likelihood is there that it would serve that purpose?

I see none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacon25 View Post
I think it is funny that the thread titled, "Can we all just get along" has the most fighting in it. Everyone seems to be reading in between the lines of other comments and creating their own conclusions from what is written.
You said a mouthful htere, brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I disagree that he could be worth that much. He doesn't own and has never owned anything close to being worth that much on its own. Money doesn't grow on trees. It may grow on cacti in CoG's garden, but that's about it.

My quick research shows that PEAK6 has $720m of assets under management.



Edit: A bit more digging......

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...-56286562.html
From about 2006:


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...O5KdjA&cad=rja

Cites rapid growth for PEAK6 Advisers, a subunit of PEAK6 Investments, $595m in 2006, with plans to top out at $1b.
And not a thing in respect of his personal net wealth. See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Well, I dont think he was or is "arrogant and smug" bacon, he's a smart, pretty much down to earth & regular guy. ... I wouldnt presume to judge the man, he's extremely successful & by all accounts a terrific individual.
That is not what I hear, BTW. BY accounts I have heard, he is not the easiest guy to work for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Who cares if Hulsizer is worth $300M, $600M , $1B, or even $50B Enough of the guessing.
That is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Huzzah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The bottom line is that regardless of how much Hulsizer may be worth... The only thing anyone should care about is that he is nothing but a cheapskate and is not willing to spead anything on this team.

"I love hockey, I have played hockey, and I love the Coyotes" SO WHAT! Your still a cheap (fill in the blank ). If Hulsizer actually cared about keeping the team in Glendale he would have wrote a cheque for whatever Bettman was asking for, and he would already be the owner. No fuss, no muss, no bonds, not GWI.

Compare Hulsizer to Chipman who at last count was willing to pay $170M for the Coyotes, or to Basillie who was going to pay $250M for the team. Why? Because they wanted to own the team. Sure they didn't want it in Glendale, but they still wanted it. Hulsizer doesn't care one bit about the team, he's just looking for a deal to get his hands on a team.
A cheapskate? Not willing to spend anything on the team? As to the first, i guess TNSE are cheapskates for not forcing the NHL's hand by offering $750 million or, heck, even $1 billion (although why stop there)? THat is silly, of coure, as is the suggestion that anyone is a cheapskate by allocating risk in a way that is good enough for all parties to agree on.

Quote:
Why do you think Hulsizer is only offering $70M of his own money for the team? Because according to most experts, that's all it really worth. ( For comparison there was an offer for Dallas of $110M ) But the NHL wants more than that for the team and the potential owner thay have is just too cheap. Hulsizer could end this mess with one stroke of a pen. Anyone who thinks Hulsizer is doing this out of the goodness of his heart is delusional.
Most experts? Really? I didn't realize that Whileee, ABD or Fugu were most experts. As for Dallas' offer, BTW, that is a cash offer, with >$100M of assumption of debt. That is just as much part of a purchase price as cash. Surely you don't think a purchase price is only what one writes a cheque for, do you? If you buy a house for $250,000 and put down $50,000 in cash, what is the price? $50,000?

Yada yada, see above. Let me know when you get some information. While you're at it, let me know what you find out about Vinik as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leoleo3535 View Post
You buy the bonds subj. to the sale going thru.
If it doesn't go thru your money remains in your wallet.
Nope. Still waiting about that one phone call, though. I am seriously intrigued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpz View Post
You don't have to read between my lines. 15 yrs, over $300 million in losses, an ownership change every 3-4 yrs, a bankruptcy, the NHL paying the bills prior to bankruptcy, breaking the top 20 in attendance once and being in the bottom 5 in attendance 7 times since 2000 and no one willing to take any financial risk in owning the team in Phoenix all point to one simple fact.

Deserts don't have ice for a reason.
Your views are well established. Of course, all of those characteristics apply to another market, more or less, except it is not in the desert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj8000 View Post
Sure, blow my speculation within too posts.
Ah, read more carefully! I don't think Fugu confirmed or denied your speculation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Not caring about Glendale's budget does not make it irrelevant to the "Business of Hockey" in Glendale, in my opinion. I expect that city councilors are very mindful of the future budget realities as they consider how high they might go on the interest rates for the bonds.

I like "trenchant" too.
No, you are right. Not caring about Glendale's budget does not make it irrelevant to the "Business of Hockey" in Glendale. THe reality that it is irrelevant is what makes it irrelevant.

GSC2k2* is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:45 PM
  #259
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Was John Shannon the one who reported that March 15th was some sort of internal deadline?

Coincidentally, COG hasn't put up the agenda for their March 15th meeting.
The COG is in "vacate" mode until March 22. There will be no meeting unless an emergency meeting is called.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/meetings/

blues10 is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:46 PM
  #260
billy blaze
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,480
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=GSC2k2;31640863]1


Quote:
That is not what I hear, BTW. BY accounts I have heard, he is not the easiest guy to work for.


BTW, I have many friends who have graduated from Mac and Waterloo who work at RIM and love it- as well as the management team- so I guess to each his own

billy blaze is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 02:55 PM
  #261
AllByDesign
Who's this ABD guy??
 
AllByDesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Location, Location!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,317
vCash: 500
For the record, I have never based my valuation of the franchise on equity offered by the purchaser.

Also for clarification, the only thing I will claim "expertise" in is the "E minor" pentatonic scale.

AllByDesign is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:01 PM
  #262
Grumpz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Aye, thats where you and I differ I guess Grumpz. I havent seen anything even remotely imaginative or creative at play in Phoenix with the exception of Ellmans real estate development & Moyes' accounting practices. The team itself was just a prop. A Charlie McCarthy puppet whose strings were being pulled by self serving ventriloquist's.
If a professional sports team is going to succeed, how much effort do think is required? Don't get me wrong, every team has it's success and failures so I don't suggest any one team is immune to a bad run. But 15 yrs?

The success of Canadian teams and the US original six speaks volumes. Looking at those markets, I think you'd be hard pressed to find $25 tickets that include food, drink and parking.

Grumpz is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:03 PM
  #263
Jet
Buff Basher
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orlando
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I love hockey and would love to own a team too. The difference is that most people have insufficient net worth to consider it. That's why it's relevant.
I also think people calling Hulsizer a cheapskate is unfair. Even with the 'subsidies', this deal is risky for him and he could stand to lose a lot of money. That is why people weren't lined up to get in on the action.

Jet is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:18 PM
  #264
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 33,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Here is the thing, K. Exactly what does that serve? Does anyone seriously think that GWI would hear him, and suddenly announce "we give!"? Would it sell another ticket, now or in the future, or would his future corporate partners (to whom, as you note, he has probably already spoken) have heard it already? The general rule in making public statements / appearances is this - what is the purpose, and what likelihood is there that it would serve that purpose?
I think it might, might mind you, serve to lower the heet of discourse & bring all of the parties to the table to try & thrash out a resolution. I feel he should be taking a leadership role. Pro-actively explaining why the deal is structured the way it is, justifying & quantifying its provisions; the risk he's assuming, his belief in the market & plans for turnaround, what his short & long-term plans might be, who his partners are. Based on his acceptance of the Goldwaters invitation to have an open & recorded meeting including the COG & the NHL, he seems quite willing to do so. I would also recommend he book & pay for some full page ads in AzCentral, the PBJ & other publications, do radio & TV rounds, explaining whats at stake, what he hopes to achieve, how he needs peoples support at the Gate. Glendale is losing (or already lost it) the war as a result of its inarticulate explanations & ongoing obfuscations. IMO, he's gotta grab the Bull by the Horns or its over. Stop watching it unwind, step in, be The Closer.


Last edited by Killion: 03-13-2011 at 03:23 PM.
Killion is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:19 PM
  #265
Grumpz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
I also think people calling Hulsizer a cheapskate is unfair. Even with the 'subsidies', this deal is risky for him and he could stand to lose a lot of money. That is why people weren't lined up to get in on the action.
If this deal goes through, and he does in fact receive $197 million for a team that'll cost $170 million. He's up $27 million.

Even if we make the assumption that team continues to lose $30 million a season and he legally has to wait 7 yrs to sell/relocate the team, all he has to to is sell the team for $183 million to break even.

MH is risking next to nothing.

Grumpz is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:20 PM
  #266
zapy
Registered User
 
zapy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Richmond Hi
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,822
vCash: 500
I wish I had 70 million; so that I can get paid 30 million to buy the team.

zapy is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:20 PM
  #267
Jesus Christ Horburn
Registered User
 
Jesus Christ Horburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 13,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
The COG is in "vacate" mode until March 22. There will be no meeting unless an emergency meeting is called.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/meetings/
Fair enough. I figured there was a meeting because I read an article about how the Tea Party was planning a protest on the 15th outside a meeting where Scruggs was to discuss the Coyotes.

I also just realized that, just like the middle of every month, we just got our monthly dose of good news regarding the Coyotes (that the bond market is getting better).

Jesus Christ Horburn is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:24 PM
  #268
Grumpz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Fair enough. I figured there was a meeting because I read an article about how the Tea Party was planning a protest on the 15th outside a meeting where Scruggs was to discuss the Coyotes.

I also just realized that, just like the middle of every month, we just got our monthly dose of good news regarding the Coyotes (that the bond market is getting better).
Does a "better" bond market suddenly make this less of a gift?

Question of the day.

Grumpz is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:25 PM
  #269
bleuet
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
I can't wait to buy one of this bonds, I'll sell it on ebay after or to a sports museum..

 
Old
03-13-2011, 03:30 PM
  #270
zapy
Registered User
 
zapy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Richmond Hi
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleuet View Post
I can't wait to buy one of this bonds, I'll sell it on ebay after or to a sports museum..
lol

this is such a financial disaster; and this is when the coyotes are doing good, imagine if they were a lottery team

everyone has lost on this team; the owner, the city, and the NHL

why don't they consider completely different options (ie. coverting the arena into something else)

it's not working; stop throwing cash into it

if the only person that wants to buy the team wants to get paid $30 million to buy the team then I think that should tell you something

zapy is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:38 PM
  #271
The Pouzar
Registered User
 
The Pouzar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Kop
Country: Canada
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
What does this have to do with anything? None of those teams inherently support the Coyotes, or have anything to do with the team, than the other clubs in the NHL. Everyone pays into the revenue pot and gets a cut. That's it. It's not as if the Thrashers have a gun to their head demanding they give money to Phoenix.
The other 29 owners are on the hook for the line of credit which was used to secure the purchase of the Coyotes out of the BK. So the teams do have an interest in seeing the resolution of the situation in PHX sooner rather than later. As a result the fate of the Coyotes needs to be resolved this season as I believe that the NHL is unwilling to sink anymore money into that franchise as it would increase the asking price to a level that is unreasonable for that particular franchise.

The Pouzar is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:38 PM
  #272
peter sullivan
Winnipeg
 
peter sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I think it might, might mind you, serve to lower the heet of discourse & bring all of the parties to the table to try & thrash out a resolution. I feel he should be taking a leadership role. Pro-actively explaining why the deal is structured the way it is, justifying & quantifying its provisions; the risk he's assuming, his belief in the market & plans for turnaround, what his short & long-term plans might be, who his partners are. Based on his acceptance of the Goldwaters invitation to have an open & recorded meeting including the COG & the NHL, he seems quite willing to do so. I would also recommend he book & pay for some full page ads in AzCentral, the PBJ & other publications, do radio & TV rounds, explaining whats at stake, what he hopes to achieve, how he needs peoples support at the Gate. Glendale is losing (or already lost it) the war as a result of its inarticulate explanations & ongoing obfuscations. IMO, he's gotta grab the Bull by the Horns or its over. Stop watching it unwind, step in, be The Closer.
i agree completely with this....MH's ringside seat through all of this has been odd to say the least.

peter sullivan is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:45 PM
  #273
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 33,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpz View Post
If a professional sports team is going to succeed, how much effort do you think is required? Don't get me wrong, every team has it's success and failures so I don't suggest any one team is immune to a bad run. But 15 yrs? The success of Canadian teams and the US original six speaks volumes. Looking at those markets, I think you'd be hard pressed to find $25 tickets that include food, drink and parking.
With the exception of the first couple of years in Phx, when the team was competitive running on the fumes from the numerous players from Winnipeg's astute moves, they did manage to pack the house & were gaining momentum. Presto-diggio, new owners, new mgmnt, new players, new found depths of mediocrity & an arena deal that guaranteed losses. Doomed. IMO, they shouldve' moved into the Az Veterans Coliseum & retro-fitted the place, hung tough & consolidated their fan base with a consistent & competitive team, looked at building in Scottsdale or right downtown when conditions were right. Shoulda/coulda/woulda....... Comparing costs to attend a game in Canada or the NorthEastern US?. So Im thinking your not only a Relocationist but also a Contractionist Grumpz?. As a "purist" myself, I actually agree, however, Phoenix & Atlanta (along with Winnipeg, QC & Hamilton) would be included in my new & improved league.

Killion is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 03:55 PM
  #274
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 10,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpz View Post
Does a "better" bond market suddenly make this less of a gift?

Question of the day.
Not to the GWI. To them it doesn't matter if the bonds sell and have 2%, 5%, 9%, or 20% interest, the bottom line is the GWI considers the $100M a gift. A "better" bond market may result in the bonds being sold, but it won't change how the GWI looks at this transaction.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
03-13-2011, 04:12 PM
  #275
LeftCoast
Registered User
 
LeftCoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,558
vCash: 500
RE: why isn't CoG suing Goldwater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Someone asked that a while back, and I gave an answer which I thought was straightforward enough. The short version:

2. Suiing a purported "taxpayer watchdog" (regardless of whether they are or not) is a political goldmine for the political opponents of Scruggs et al. It would be catnip for the GOP or tea party, even if justified.
A local government suing an outspoken critic of their policies to shut them up has chilling first amendment implications. See post #11 in this thread if you disagree.

LeftCoast is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.