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Game 69 | Detroit Red Wings @ St. Louis Blues | 8:00 PM EST | FS-D (HD) |

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:42 PM
  #176
Yemack
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
not sure about it. the way he's playing it's all about energy. and usually when he creates havoc in the 1st, he's getting worse each shift and is barely seen later. i doubt he can play his game for more than 9min each night.
and he and his lines caused a bunch of ES goals against lately too. as much as i enjoy his shifts were he pins the opponent deep into their zone, if they score one and get two against it doesn't work.

so i'd rather see him as weapon for 9min per night than a liability when playing more minutes.
I think you have a mindset that Helm will never be anything more than a 4th liner this season. Maybe he is somewhat careless here and there but I don't think Helm experiment will just flop in an epic scale and cost this team hugely.

sure he caused some goals against but he scored couple himself as well. He brings hell alot more jump and inspiration to this team than guys like Filppula who is just a glorified and responsible $3 million dollar minute filler now. Also Helm does it with supposedly less 'talented' linemates... or he brings out more from his linemates.. whatever the case.

I say give him a chance like Filppula who seems to get every opportunity possible. I dont see much harm in switching 3rd and 4th line centre if you ask me.

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Old
03-15-2011, 02:08 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Because I don't agree that the D-Z connection has been "KILLED." Especially since.... it's still being used. I think it's still an option going forward. And besides, when I said, "middle-6 guy who can play center," I was thinking he would mostly be a winger, and be able to center a 3rd line when needed. I haven't really perused the FA list, so I don't even know how feasible it is.
Going from memory, Arnott and Sturm are the guys who seemed the best at being able to switch from one spot to the other and fill nearly any hole in the middle6. I think Arnott will still command a good chunk of dough, especially with the season's he's putting up. Sturm, on the other hand, might be more affordable. He's coming off injury and he's not lighting the world on fire in Washington.

I'd give up the versatility and just sign a straight up center if we can get a good one at a good price, though. Part of it is that I don't see Helm as a third line center yet, but there's also depth and versatility. We had Modano, Flip and Datsyuk all miss time this season. Depth to cover for those injuries is a nice thing to have.

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Old
03-15-2011, 02:46 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Going from memory, Arnott and Sturm are the guys who seemed the best at being able to switch from one spot to the other and fill nearly any hole in the middle6. I think Arnott will still command a good chunk of dough, especially with the season's he's putting up. Sturm, on the other hand, might be more affordable. He's coming off injury and he's not lighting the world on fire in Washington.

I'd give up the versatility and just sign a straight up center if we can get a good one at a good price, though. Part of it is that I don't see Helm as a third line center yet, but there's also depth and versatility. We had Modano, Flip and Datsyuk all miss time this season. Depth to cover for those injuries is a nice thing to have.
Flip is a lot closer to being a good 3rd line center than Flip is to being a good second line center, IMO.

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03-15-2011, 03:22 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Flip is a lot closer to being a good 3rd line center than Flip is to being a good second line center, IMO.
I think is the post cap lock out NHL with a salary cap Flip is fine as our 2nd line centre.

The way our team is set up I don't think Flip should be the one expected to carry that line.

When I look at our first line, its Datsyuk and Zetterberg's line, and whoever rides third wheel is just there for that, to tag along for the ride and be happy they are playing with our 2 most potent offensive lines.

When I look at the 2nd line, I feel that it is suppose to be Franzen's line, and as a scorer, he needs a support player to carry the puck and get him the puck in the right spots so he can make the other team pay. The problem is lately that Franzen seems so unwilling to engage and take the bull by its horns on offense when he has the puck that Flip's strengths aren't really being utilized.

I always wonder if at the end of the day did we make the right move keeping Franzen over Hossa. The way Hossa played, Flip's style seems like it was very ideal to have him as his centre, and I thought it looked that way when they did play together.

In the short-term we made the right choice for sure with the way Franzen plays in the playoffs, but if that only remains for another 2 or 3 years, maybe it will end up being the wrong move, but we won't know until it gets to that point. We just got to hope that Franzen goes into beast mode in the playoffs and at that point I'm sure Flip's style will be very useful in making sure Franzen gets the puck when he wants in

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Old
03-15-2011, 04:02 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Flip is a lot closer to being a good 3rd line center than Flip is to being a good second line center, IMO.
Honestly, I'd probably agree. Watching Flip play, he just doesn't pass the eye test on the second line. At the same time, his production is probably pretty close to what the majority of second line centers put up. And if he was noticeably better at anything, we probably wouldn't be able to re-sign him. As it is, he's just really solid and he'll probably be re-signed for something very similar to what he's making now.

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Old
03-15-2011, 05:29 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I think is the post cap lock out NHL with a salary cap Flip is fine as our 2nd line centre.

The way our team is set up I don't think Flip should be the one expected to carry that line.
The problem is you've got Datsyuk and Zetterberg on line, which isn't really even a good reflection of reality, which leaves Franzen to carry the line, if Flip can't. And we haven't see a ton of proof that Franzen can carry a guy like Flip for a sustained period.


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When I look at our first line, its Datsyuk and Zetterberg's line, and whoever rides third wheel is just there for that, to tag along for the ride and be happy they are playing with our 2 most potent offensive lines.
I wanted this to be the case, but I don't think D-Z belong together anymore. How many really great 5-on-5 Pavel-Hank shifts have we had this year? 4? 5? We used to get that in game, two or three times a week. Jaster doesn't think so, but Babcock killed the chemistry on this line.
I understand Babcock's rationale, to create to great lines instead of one great line. For a couple years, he'd reunited them and they went gangbusters. But last year and the season before, they stopped clicking the way they once did. Dominating shifts which were once commonplace became more and more rare.
Today, I don't see any improvement in Datsyuk or Zetterberg when together. In fact, I see a line where there isn't enough puck to go around.

So, I don't see how Flip needs to be a second liner when D/Z are separated.


Quote:
When I look at the 2nd line, I feel that it is suppose to be Franzen's line, and as a scorer, he needs a support player to carry the puck and get him the puck in the right spots so he can make the other team pay. The problem is lately that Franzen seems so unwilling to engage and take the bull by its horns on offense when he has the puck that Flip's strengths aren't really being utilized.
At the start of the season, it looked like Flip and Franzen might have giant seasons on the same line. But that all quickly went to hell.

Quote:
I always wonder if at the end of the day did we make the right move keeping Franzen over Hossa. The way Hossa played, Flip's style seems like it was very ideal to have him as his centre, and I thought it looked that way when they did play together.
It's no secret that I was a big Hossa fan. Statswise, it's tough to make the case for Hossa right now, but to me, he is head and shoulders above Franzen as a hockeyplayer. Having Franzen allows us to have a $2.8M Hudler instead of a $1.8M someone else. Not that big a deal, if you ask me.


Quote:
In the short-term we made the right choice for sure with the way Franzen plays in the playoffs, but if that only remains for another 2 or 3 years, maybe it will end up being the wrong move, but we won't know until it gets to that point. We just got to hope that Franzen goes into beast mode in the playoffs and at that point I'm sure Flip's style will be very useful in making sure Franzen gets the puck when he wants in
Again, thought, that depends on whether or not Flip and Franzen are together. If Z/D are separated, then one of them will play with Franzen.

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