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Old
03-13-2011, 12:12 AM
  #76
snoop244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
Miller seems to be coming waaaayyyy out of the crease a lot more than seasons past, no? It scares me to death when he comes like 50 feet out to challenge the shooter during a 2-on-1 situation
This.

Boston figured him out in the playoffs last year and teams have gone to school on that. Draw him out deep, put a guy on the post and turn on the red light.

Personally, I really like a goalie that attacks, but you need an amazing defensive pair to clean up the trash around the net or rebounds will go in while Miller floats around the faceoff dots. As far as I can tell, Miller needs to come out because he just isn't a strong goalie with reaction saves.

Not only was the first goal soft, I thought the Grabovsky goal needed to be saved too.

All-in, he is an average to slightly below average goalie in my opinion.

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03-13-2011, 12:15 AM
  #77
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I think many, many people are discounting how much more of a stylistically defensive team we were during the first half of the season last year (pre-West Coast) when Miller put up his truly eye-popping numbers.

It was a team that went into the eventual Stanley Cup Champions building and won 2-1 with Lalime in net. A team that fell behind 3-0 on one of Miller's true stinkers last year, and came back to not allow another goal with Lalime in net to win 4-3. The team defense was so much better - from the forwards (the bottom 6 was great during that span, and a big reason the team won the division) to the defense (Replacing Lydman-Tallinder with Morrisson-Leopold makes the team FAR worse defensively, and Sekera/Weber's emergence doesn't really come close to making up the difference.

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Old
03-13-2011, 12:22 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
Let's play what if's, if Vanek sniped the top corner on the semi break away? Is Reimer at fault? Or is Vanek a better player than Clarke M?

This is the NHL, the excuse making for could of, should of's, is mind bobbling. Miller steals a goal from Lupul point blank, the d-coverage was average all game. Name a goalie that does not let in a soft goal.


I don't think you interpreted what I said the way I wanted you to. I don't understand what you're getting at.

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Old
03-13-2011, 12:24 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop244 View Post
All-in, he is an average to slightly below average goalie in my opinion.
Whoa there.

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Old
03-13-2011, 12:32 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Bet Hasek doesn't put up a .910 over the course of a season if he had to play in front of an AHL lineup every night.

A few of those Sabres teams were underrated defensively.
They only had a Selke winner up front, a brilliant shutdown pair in McKee/Warrener, among other offensively challenged guys who's only business being on a NHL roster was they weren't defensive liabilities...and a Lindy Ruff (or even Ted Nolan for that matter) system that was 100% focused on defense first.

Hasek was definitely a huge reason for the team's defensive success (I think he would have gotten well over a .910 with an AHL lineup, I mean the guy was flat out brilliant), but the team was still decent enough defensively for the backup (be it Biron, Shields, Roloson, etc) to post ~.910 save percentages. There are starters (and decent ones at that) who didn't post .910 during that era.

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Old
03-13-2011, 12:58 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop244 View Post
I thought the Grabovsky goal needed to be saved too.
I'm glad someone actually agrees with me here. It's a difficult save...but if you watch it, he's there, it goes under him.

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:07 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Bet Hasek doesn't put up a .910 over the course of a season if he had to play in front of an AHL lineup every night.

A few of those Sabres teams were underrated defensively.
were you busy in the mid 90s?

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:10 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
Miller seems to be coming waaaayyyy out of the crease a lot more than seasons past, no? It scares me to death when he comes like 50 feet out to challenge the shooter during a 2-on-1 situation
In doing so, he moves himself INTO traffic.

That being said, I'm notoriously tough on Miller but I can't really hate his play tonight. He made some excellent saves. The MacArthur goal was a perfectly placed shot that got the lucky bounce off the far post. The Grabovski goal was a wide open cross ice one-timer in the slot by a guy who is going to score 30 this year, that's a prime chance for a real goal scorer. The Kessel goal was just unlucky, and the Bozak goal was also a great chance, I was impressed Miller even got a piece of it.

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03-13-2011, 01:18 AM
  #84
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gotta get 2 tomorrow. anything less is fail

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:21 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
were you busy in the mid 90s?
Nope. I just understand how the team around a goaltender affects their numbers. Hasek was obviously great (and maybe an AHL team would be good enough that that was a bit of an overstatement), but there's only so much ANY goaltender can do.

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03-13-2011, 01:21 AM
  #86
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The game tonight obviously wasn't Miller's fault, but I also think it's obvious he's not quite the same goalie he was last year. His numbers are very average this year. Yes, the team defense hasn't been as good this year either, but he's also clearly not been as focused night-in and night-out and has let the bad goals get to him. The bad body language that we used to see after a goal earlier in his career has been more prevalent again this year.

Unfortunately, it seems like everyone here has an opinion on one extreme or the other. Either Miller is just an average goalie or the defense is 5 levels below where it was last year. In these situations, the middle ground is almost always the most correct.

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:28 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
Is this when the newsgroup collectively declares that Miller is fatigued?
Miller is fatigued? To the newsroom!






BREAKING: MILLER IS FATIGUED.

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:46 AM
  #88
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Leafs are pretty dead. Reimer is awful. I wouldn't worry.

The Devils, they make me worry.

Leopold, he makes me worry.

Montador, he makes me worry.

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Old
03-13-2011, 01:47 AM
  #89
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There's two things about low percentage shot systems.

One, they don't always work. The fact that all 5 defenders have to commit to the system and play it at every turn is not the easiest task in the world, not to mention rebounds/carems/deflections and getting tired because you're playing a passive system and giving up zone time.

Two, a goalie still needs to stop every low percentage shot, which, when watching Miller lately, isn't always happening. Any shot on any play can turn into a goal (Lucic's WTFer from earlier in the year, for example) and it takes a tremendous amount of focus to stop upwards of 30 shots a game regardless of where they're coming from.

Additionally, if Hasek's team was so awesome defensively then why did his backups in Buffalo post a 79-95-21 record, with a 2.96 GAA and a .900 save percentage?

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03-13-2011, 01:52 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
There's two things about low percentage shot systems.

One, they don't always work. The fact that all 5 defenders have to commit to the system and play it at every turn is not the easiest task in the world, not to mention rebounds/carems/deflections and getting tired because you're playing a passive system and giving up zone time.

Two, a goalie still needs to stop every low percentage shot, which, when watching Miller lately, isn't always happening. Any shot on any play can turn into a goal (Lucic's WTFer from earlier in the year, for example) and it takes a tremendous amount of focus to stop upwards of 30 shots a game regardless of where they're coming from.

Additionally, if Hasek's team was so awesome defensively then why did his backups in Buffalo post a 79-95-21 record, with a 2.96 GAA and a .900 save percentage?
Where'd you find those numbers? A brief skim of Sabres stats during that period shows me that almost ALL Sabres backups posted save % above .900. During his best years, his backup's numbers were closer to .915.


Last edited by jflory81: 03-13-2011 at 03:02 AM.
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03-13-2011, 01:54 AM
  #91
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http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/...ven-close.html

Quote:
Hasek's backups were 79-95-21, with a 2.96 GAA and a .900 save percentage. Brodeur's backups were 58-62-12 with a 2.63 GAA and a .900 save percentage, facing 3.4 fewer shots per game. Hasek's backups were more talented goalies, as most of them had been or became starters in the NHL: Grant Fuhr, Martin Biron, Dwayne Roloson, Steve Shields, Manny Legace. Brodeur had two decent backups, Mike Dunham and John Vanbiesbrouck, and they combined for a .911 save percentage. The mediocre Chris Terreri, backup for 5 of the seasons, was at .898, and the rest were minor-leaguers (.882).

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03-13-2011, 01:56 AM
  #92
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The Good:
-Vanek
-Outshooting the Leafs badly
-Myers

The Bad:
-I wasn't a fan of breaking up Sekera-Montador. They were playing great together. Weber should've been playing with Myers.
-Hecht had a nice goal tonight, but should've had more.
-Mancari and Parrish. A never-will-be and a has-been. I'm praying that both Goose and Stafford are healthy and can play tomorrow.
-That shift on the 2nd Leaf goal was putrid.
-Boyes looked liked he was on another planet on Kessel's goal. That miscue really enabled him to get that momentum going down the wing on the GWG.

The Ugly:
-I wish this team was as good at protecting leads as last year's team.

Overall, the team had a good road trip, finishing up with a 4-2-1 record. It just sucks that they couldn't make it 5-1-1 against the Laffs, oh well. Hopefully, they'll take care of business at home tomorrow against the Sens to put themselves back in 7th.

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03-13-2011, 03:08 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Where'd you find those numbers? A brief skim of Sabres stats during that period shows me that almost ALL Sabres backups posted save % above .900. During his best years, his backup's numbers were closer to .915.
The sample size is from like 94 to 2000 or something like that.

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03-13-2011, 03:14 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
During his statistical prime, I'd wager those backup numbers are much higher.

If you take out 94-95, (when Biron played two games and was clearly unready for the NHL; he didn't see the league until 3 years later), his save percentage as Hasek's backup was .920 in his first year in pretty limited action, and .910 with a large portion of the action in 99-00 and also .910 as the primary backup in 00-01. The year Biron put up a .920, Roloson was the primary backup, and put up .910.

Before that, Steve Shields put up consecutive .910 seasons as the primary backup to Hasek.


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Old
03-13-2011, 03:33 AM
  #95
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So is every loss from now until the playoffs and beyond going to become a Miller is overrated thread?

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03-13-2011, 03:42 AM
  #96
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Any loss where he puts up a sub-.900 SP, perhaps.

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Old
03-13-2011, 04:03 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by PuckSim8 View Post
So is every loss from now until the playoffs and beyond going to become a Miller is overrated thread?
Yup, Ryan did not steal the game. He has to stop those deflections off skates and

he must clear his crease so he can see the puck. Finally, he must not allow a goal

off the post and in.

Besides that, I think we'll make the playoffs.

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03-13-2011, 04:44 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpaff View Post
Yup, Ryan did not steal the game. He has to stop those deflections off skates and

he must clear his crease so he can see the puck. Finally, he must not allow a goal

off the post and in.
I don't think people are saying "he sucks", but he's not the guy who played lights out last season.

Deflections, shots of the post or not, IMO Ryan Miller would've had at least one (if not more) of the pucks tonight before they went in the net.

That said...
While Sekera and Weber have "arrived", and Butler's been much like the Butler we knew 2 years ago in his recent stint, for all the flak Tallinder and Lydman got, that duo is missed in the Sabres own zone, especially on the PK.
(16th in the NHL this season, #1 last season)

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Old
03-13-2011, 08:58 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
I don't think people are saying "he sucks", but he's not the guy who played lights out last season.

Deflections, shots of the post or not, IMO Ryan Miller would've had at least one (if not more) of the pucks tonight before they went in the net.

That said...
While Sekera and Weber have "arrived", and Butler's been much like the Butler we knew 2 years ago in his recent stint, for all the flak Tallinder and Lydman got, that duo is missed in the Sabres own zone, especially on the PK.
(16th in the NHL this season, #1 last season)
Well said. I agree on both counts.

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Old
03-13-2011, 09:50 AM
  #100
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Folks,

1. Do not change what someone said if you quote them, even if it's obvious that it's not something they said, unless they are ok with it.

2. If you think a post breaks the site rules, report it. Do not get into a debate about it.

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