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Old
03-13-2011, 11:46 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
While what you wrote make sense I don't think this is it - the Rangers are in the middle of play-off race where every 1 point is valuable so that I highly doubt that the management or coaching staff would look beyond this season at this point by purposely creating a defensive liability. It's either they geniunly think that Gilroy is better or Eminger is injured and there is no other option.

Re. Sauer, while I LOVE his play this season and especially now with everything on a line each game, I think he is 2nd - 3rd best defenseman behind Staal. And between 1 - 4, the drop-off is minimal, which is amazing in its own right because we have 2 rookies in this group. AMAZING!!!!
I think they still believe that Gilroy has the potential to turn into a major contributor, (I'm not saying that is MY opinion!) and they are determined to give him the ice time to develop or fail. Eminger is probably viewed as an expandable asset that will never have the upside of Gilroy's potential. I don't know how this is ultimately going to shake out, but it appears that they are running with him.

I am likeing Sauer's game a lot as well.

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Old
03-13-2011, 11:52 AM
  #27
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Sauer just continues to get better and better. His goal last night was no accident...for the last month he's been much more aggressive jumping into the play. He's got a chance to be a top pair guy. He's become one of my favorite players and a real stalwart on the team. Three years learning his trade in the AHL have paid off.

And until last night, I though Stall and to some degree Girardi were running out of gas. I could easily see the perception that Sauer was playing better than Staal or Girardi. Not so after last night.

And isn't this what we've dreamed about for years -- a young top four defense all home grown and Del Zotto (he will bounce back) to boot. This is the foundation of long term success. Right now the Rangers are getting close to being Stanley Cup Contenders for many years to come.


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Old
03-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #28
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Staal is definitely better IMO. However, we all expect Staal to be a monster night in and night out so its not really a surprise whereas we didn't know what to make of Sauer and now he is playing very, very well. I think he's the d man on this team who has most obviously defied the expectations for himself and has been playing far above where most thought he could all year. I don't think there's much of a comparison between him and Staal though. Staal is on another level.

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03-13-2011, 12:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
I think they still believe that Gilroy has the potential to turn into a major contributor, (I'm not saying that is MY opinion!) and they are determined to give him the ice time to develop or fail. Eminger is probably viewed as an expandable asset that will never have the upside of Gilroy's potential. I don't know how this is ultimately going to shake out, but it appears that they are running with him.

I am likeing Sauer's game a lot as well.
I think you're correct with regards to your posts about Gilroy vs. Eminger. I remember in one of Torts pre-game interviews someone asked him why he was playing Gilroy over Eminger and he said something like "We're running with the youth." Then he said quickly something like, "I know Emmy's(Eminger) not an old man but...." and he kinda just let the sentence die off.

I guess they think Gilroy can be a contributor in the future. I don't really understand why though.

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03-13-2011, 02:19 PM
  #30
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Crazy? Not at all. He's the Ryan Callahan of the defense. He's the best positioned, his decision making is top notch, and he almost never makes mistakes. No other blueliner on the team, including Staal, is as consistent when it comes to doing as much to force opponents to make mistakes as Sauer does. Staal is bigger, stronger and more experienced, but as far as the fundamentals are concerned, Sauer excels at all of them. Very solid first pass.

He's trustworthy in any situation against any opponent. He's going to be one of the league's best defensive defensemen, not to mention most underrated players, for years to come.

Give him another year of experience (and no injury problems) and he'll be a better player defensively than Girardi.

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Old
03-13-2011, 02:28 PM
  #31
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Not as good as Staal, but he's been the absolute definition of solid in every regard.

On another note, I've seen people lamenting the fact that none of our (hopefully) future top 4 of Staal, Girardi, Sauer, and McD are elite puck-movers. While this is true, I don't think it's necessarily as big of a problem as people are making it out to be. They all do a satisfactory job of getting the puck up to the forwards, and are pretty good at jumping up in the offensive zone.

So while none of them are Scott Niedermeyer or Dan Boyle in terms of offensive wizardry, I think they are all capable of getting the job done well at even strength. If we can somehow end up with a 3rd pairing guy who can also QB the PP well, I think we'll be all set. Hopefully that'll be MDZ.

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03-13-2011, 02:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
MDZ has been absolutley atrocious this season. No chance in hell he's been better than Gilroy.
Yes he has.

Gilroy looks completely lost on nearly every shift. Del Zotto has been much better, but both have been complete garbage.

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03-13-2011, 02:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Crazy? Not at all. He's the Ryan Callahan of the defense. He's the best positioned, his decision making is top notch, and he almost never makes mistakes. No other blueliner on the team, including Staal, is as consistent when it comes to doing as much to force opponents to make mistakes as Sauer does. Staal is bigger, stronger and more experienced, but as far as the fundamentals are concerned, Sauer excels at all of them. Very solid first pass.

He's trustworthy in any situation against any opponent. He's going to be one of the league's best defensive defensemen, not to mention most underrated players, for years to come.

Give him another year of experience (and no injury problems) and he'll be a better player defensively than Girardi.
IMO, both Sauer and McDonagh will end up better D-men than Girardi.

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03-13-2011, 02:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
IMO, both Sauer and McDonagh will end up better D-men than Girardi.
Are you ready to put Staal and Sauer together as the first pairing yet?

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03-13-2011, 02:58 PM
  #35
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Sauer's been very very good all year, but he still makes mistakes, and a lot of the time they're the same type of mistakes a Staal makes.

Someone said it above though, and Staal is on another level from Sauer right now. Staal plays against the best players and lines in the league every shift, every night. Sauer doesn't have to do that, and that's why they appear closer than they are.

I feel like that aspect of this is being underrated. Just my 2 cents.

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03-13-2011, 03:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Are you ready to put Staal and Sauer together as the first pairing yet?
My only concern with that is that this is Sauer's rookie season, and not sure about his ability to log the minutes Girardi does at this point in time. I do not worry about Sauer handling such responsibility

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03-13-2011, 03:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
IMO, both Sauer and McDonagh will end up better D-men than Girardi.
i agree with you, but they arent there yet.

and if you could get away with a Staal - Girardi pairing as a true top pairing like they have been, then keeping Sauer and McD together gives you a top 4 that is tough to beat.

right now our real problem is 2 fold. none of them are point men for the power play, and none of them are particularly great at the outlet pass.

its a great defensive quartet, but very lacking offensively.

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03-13-2011, 03:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
Yes he has.

Gilroy looks completely lost on nearly every shift. Del Zotto has been much better, but both have been complete garbage.

MDZ has been a liability practically every shift this season. That's the sole reason he's not playing right now. Whatever offensive advantage he has over Gilroy, isn't enough to justify his pathetic performance inside his own blue-line.

Both are mediocre at this stage of their career's, but one is a hell of a lot more serviceable than the other. And if you think that's MDZ, then I have no idea what you're paying attention to.

Day/Night difference between the two, defensively. And that's saying something considering Gilroy is barely an NHL player.

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03-13-2011, 03:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
MDZ has been absolutley atrocious this season. No chance in hell he's been better than Gilroy.
He has.

Gilroy maintains a fan base by making 1-2 decent defensive plays some games. MDZ did that but was crucified because of his lack of offensive production, which Gilroy also fails to bring. MDZ also went through like a 3-4 game streak where he made really bad decisions- Gilroy's been doing that consistently since the Kings game, where he spun around instead of taking the body (did that this game, too) and he's been absolutely horrendous since then, down from "really bad."

We should be seeing Eminger-McCabe with Gilroy on waivers and MDZ in the minors. They're both not NHL d-men right now but I don't see where you think Gilroy has been leagues better than MDZ- Gilroy has been getting exponentially worse the last few weeks.

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03-13-2011, 04:02 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
MDZ has been absolutley atrocious this season. No chance in hell he's been better than Gilroy.
He's for sure been better then Gilroy except for a 10 game burst in Gilroy's play this season and a slow start for Del Zotto. I thought when he got sent down, he was playing his best hockey of the season, defensively and offensively.

Oh, and if Torts is all about the youth movement, how come a 20 YO was being sat while a 27 YO is playing?

Del Zotto was playing against 2nd line players during the first part of the season, while Gilroy was facing 3rd and 4th liners for the most part on the 3rd pairing. That's also the reason Gilroy is a +5. DZ was paired with Roszival at first too, while Gilroy had Sauer. Since some people here think Sauer has been our best defender (I think he's been our 3rd best) that is part of the reason Gilroy is a +5 while DZ is a -5.

I'd much rather see DZ playing 3rd pairing minutes instead of Gilroy AINEC.

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03-13-2011, 04:04 PM
  #41
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You're not crazy. Sauer has been incredibly solid. Our most consistent defenseman in his own end for the entire season. Yes, more so than Staal.

However, Staal logs insane minutes against the best the opposition has to offer and can take over games--like when he dominates Ovechkin. He's still top dog on our defense, by a pretty good margin.

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03-13-2011, 04:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i agree with you, but they arent there yet.

and if you could get away with a Staal - Girardi pairing as a true top pairing like they have been, then keeping Sauer and McD together gives you a top 4 that is tough to beat.

right now our real problem is 2 fold. none of them are point men for the power play, and none of them are particularly great at the outlet pass.

its a great defensive quartet, but very lacking offensively.
No argument from me...ideally, you'd like a RH complement with the ability to play next to Staal, who can play on the PP.

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03-13-2011, 04:30 PM
  #43
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IMO you keep Staal-Girardi as the top pair, because they work well together. Chemistry. They can already shut down other teams top lines.

Then we will also have a great second pairing, and mix some offense into the bottom 2 and our defense is golden for years.

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03-13-2011, 04:31 PM
  #44
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Our top 4 D have all been phenomenal. A couple of weeks ago I said that McD had played his best game in the NHL so far. Sauer's best game might have been last night.

I've been under the impression that Torts has been very, very cautious about his defensive pairings recently. He's line-matching this season to a much further extent than he was last season, at least as far as the D-pairings are concerned.

I ran the shift charts last night and just did a casual check of what happened. I'm going to do this for some of our recent games. The format is bad but don't get intimidated:

http://timeonice.com/default.html?Ga...1032&submit=Go

What happened last night is that immediately after San Jose scored their second goal and tied the game, Torts rolled Staal/Girardi and McD/Sauer almost exclusively from that moment forward.

Gilroy played 9:37 last night. He had 14 shifts. 11 of those shifts came before San Jose's second goal. From that goal onward, Gilroy touched the ice three times. After around four minutes into the third, Gilroy had one 30 second shift. McCabe's game was very similar except he had about a minute on the PP.

If you track this shift chart all the way through and zone in on the Staal/Girardi pairing it's almost comical how heavy a load those guys are shouldering. They were on the ice for almost every single shift that Thornton/Marleau had. Seems like McD/Sauer got matched up against Heatley most of the game. Earlier in the game, when they were still getting somewhat regular shifts, Gilroy/McCabe were matched up against the Wellwood line most of the time.

This is an away game where Torts' line-matching abilities are hampered. I can't wait to check the shift charts for our home games. Torts feels the pressure of this playoff hunt just as much as we do. If games are close, I guarantee he stays away from the McCabe/Gilroy pairing like the plague. Sauer and McD are getting a baptism by fire right now. No opportunity to bring them along cautiously,

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03-13-2011, 05:30 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
Our top 4 D have all been phenomenal. A couple of weeks ago I said that McD had played his best game in the NHL so far. Sauer's best game might have been last night.

I've been under the impression that Torts has been very, very cautious about his defensive pairings recently. He's line-matching this season to a much further extent than he was last season, at least as far as the D-pairings are concerned.

I ran the shift charts last night and just did a casual check of what happened. I'm going to do this for some of our recent games. The format is bad but don't get intimidated:

http://timeonice.com/default.html?Ga...1032&submit=Go

What happened last night is that immediately after San Jose scored their second goal and tied the game, Torts rolled Staal/Girardi and McD/Sauer almost exclusively from that moment forward.

Gilroy played 9:37 last night. He had 14 shifts. 11 of those shifts came before San Jose's second goal. From that goal onward, Gilroy touched the ice three times. After around four minutes into the third, Gilroy had one 30 second shift. McCabe's game was very similar except he had about a minute on the PP.

If you track this shift chart all the way through and zone in on the Staal/Girardi pairing it's almost comical how heavy a load those guys are shouldering. They were on the ice for almost every single shift that Thornton/Marleau had. Seems like McD/Sauer got matched up against Heatley most of the game. Earlier in the game, when they were still getting somewhat regular shifts, Gilroy/McCabe were matched up against the Wellwood line most of the time.

This is an away game where Torts' line-matching abilities are hampered. I can't wait to check the shift charts for our home games. Torts feels the pressure of this playoff hunt just as much as we do. If games are close, I guarantee he stays away from the McCabe/Gilroy pairing like the plague. Sauer and McD are getting a baptism by fire right now. No opportunity to bring them along cautiously,
Outstanding post!

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Old
03-13-2011, 05:30 PM
  #46
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I love how Sauer's played this year, but I don't even consider him the best defenseman on his pair. McDonagh's ability to read the play in the neutral zone has trumped Sauer's quiet steadiness in the defensive zone, at least in my eyes. They each have those attributes to some degree, though and there is no criticism here. Sauer's been great. To me, he's number 4 of the top-4, but that's very very good.

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Old
03-13-2011, 06:25 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i still for the life of me cant figure out why Gilroy is in the lineup over Eminger...unless Eminger is hurt and they arent talking about it or something.
me too, maybe substance abuse or some internal feuds?

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03-13-2011, 06:32 PM
  #48
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Sauer is good,would have been a first rounder as well,if he wasnt injured or suppose to be injury prone...is this kid the best d-man now,no,but not far from it...Do i think he can be better than Staal,**** yes I do...the kid is damn good,and thihs is his first season.He is looking to be the steal of the draft maybe...I def like this kid,fav d-man along with Girradi

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03-13-2011, 06:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blue Line Monster View Post
I think you're correct with regards to your posts about Gilroy vs. Eminger. I remember in one of Torts pre-game interviews someone asked him why he was playing Gilroy over Eminger and he said something like "We're running with the youth." Then he said quickly something like, "I know Emmy's(Eminger) not an old man but...." and he kinda just let the sentence die off.

I guess they think Gilroy can be a contributor in the future. I don't really understand why though.
This way if he misses the playoffs he will have a "I was running with the youth" excuse.

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03-13-2011, 06:38 PM
  #50
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I know its great that we have a a solid top-4 now. I absolutely love Sauer and McDonagh together. They compliment each other very well because they play the game with the same high hockey IQ and they cover for eachother as well, if not better than Staal-Girardi.

However, with that said, next season this team needs to address their 3rd pairing. Its ridiculous that Torts HAS to rely so heavily on Staal, Girardi and 2 rookies to carry the defensive load. They have done an admirable job but that NEEDS to be addressed next season.

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