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Game #70: vs San Jose, 3/15 (7:30 PM, Fox Sports Southwest, 1310 AM)

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Old
03-16-2011, 01:24 AM
  #201
The Nemesis
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to the visiting Sharks fans: Please stop riling up the locals. It is their board and they have a right to express their views and not have you attack them for it.

to the home-team Stars fans: Outside posters are permitted to view and post in team GDTS provided they are not doing it maliciously or attempting to troll and flame. And please be aware that disagreement does not equal trolling. if Sharks fans want to come here and debate the nature of the hits they are able to do so provided they are not actually attempting to flame or maliciously provoke you. A lot of content that was deleted would've been acceptable were it not fruit of the poisonous tree.

and please, if you see something that you feel violates the rules, report it then leave it alone. reporting and responding makes more work for the mods (and potentially gets you in trouble for flaming too) and if the mods do nothing, do not take it as a sign that you should take the law into your own hands and attack the poster. the mods doing nothing is a sign that either it hasn't been seen yet or it's not a rules violation, and neither of those situations warrant you playing the role of moderator yourself.

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Old
03-16-2011, 01:47 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post

Boarding happens. It sucks and is dangerous and is the responsibility of the hitter, but in this as in most situations, it's a hit that, had the guy who received the check not lost his balance, would not be considered dirty. Murray's elbow on Vincour has no other purpose than to make an illegal hit on somebody's head. There's nothing hockey about an elbow to the face.

I am curious as to what you think Murray was protecting himself from, Vincour's face?
Kritter - Murray has been a target this year. He's starting <edit that, he IS getting a reputation as a punishing hitter/physical defenseman and people tend to try to hit him now when he's vulnerable as payback. I think his hit on Vincour was him thinking that Vincour was going to take a run at him, and when Vincour didn't, he already had too much force coming his way and it resulted in a high hit.

Murray is most certainly NOT a dirty player. Some of the cleanest players on the team IMO are Marleau, Murray, and Vlasic.

You can give your opinion on Murray's intent, but I'd point you to his history - the guy is about as stand up as they come, and most of his hits come from people targeting HIM.


Last edited by BrianSmith: 03-16-2011 at 01:56 AM.
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03-16-2011, 01:58 AM
  #203
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I agree Murray's not a dirty player in general (though as I said early in the thread re: the Eriksson hit, I think the way he follows through high with his elbows is eh and will become illegal in the near future with the emphasis on headshots).

But that was still a stunningly dirty play, and it basically knocked Vincour from the game as well. If what I read is correct, Vincour tried to play one shift after but did not continue because of his head. Reputation does not have any bearing on what the play actually was.

It was an elbow to the face, and there's no way around that. He might not have meant to do it, but the fact remains he did it. And unlike boarding, where you can say in most cases (like tonight's) it was a reckless attempt at a hockey play that would have been legal save for the launching result, elbowing is never a legal hockey play. Your elbows should not be raised period, especially not head high, and if a guy is coming to clean you out, that's still no excuse for getting your elbows up. Either lower your shoulder and let him run into that (and Murray's solid enough that's the easiest option) or don't put yourself in the vulnerable position to begin with. Sticking your elbows up is at best knowingly dangerous and at worst malicious.

I really need a YT of this hit though, because I could have sworn Murray initiated the contact while Vincour was trying to go around him, which makes any "self defense" type of explanation even more silly.

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:16 AM
  #204
rn277
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can we all agree that if heatley or murray gets suspended then langenbrunner should be too?

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03-16-2011, 02:37 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
I agree Murray's not a dirty player in general (though as I said early in the thread re: the Eriksson hit, I think the way he follows through high with his elbows is eh and will become illegal in the near future with the emphasis on headshots).

But that was still a stunningly dirty play, and it basically knocked Vincour from the game as well. If what I read is correct, Vincour tried to play one shift after but did not continue because of his head. Reputation does not have any bearing on what the play actually was.

It was an elbow to the face, and there's no way around that. He might not have meant to do it, but the fact remains he did it. And unlike boarding, where you can say in most cases (like tonight's) it was a reckless attempt at a hockey play that would have been legal save for the launching result, elbowing is never a legal hockey play. Your elbows should not be raised period, especially not head high, and if a guy is coming to clean you out, that's still no excuse for getting your elbows up. Either lower your shoulder and let him run into that (and Murray's solid enough that's the easiest option) or don't put yourself in the vulnerable position to begin with. Sticking your elbows up is at best knowingly dangerous and at worst malicious.

I really need a YT of this hit though, because I could have sworn Murray initiated the contact while Vincour was trying to go around him, which makes any "self defense" type of explanation even more silly.
All of the sharks hits are on the highlights on tsn.

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:39 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rn277 View Post
can we all agree that if heatley or murray gets suspended then langenbrunner should be too?
Three very different plays that should be considered independently of each other.

Heatley's was the dirtiest attempt but least illegal actual action, if that makes any sense. That would have been a really, really dirty elbow if it connected as hard as he swung it.

Personally, I think Murray's was the most egregious violation. Like I've laid out, there's no reason at all to have a head-high elbow, let alone one you slam into a guy's face. Of the three, this is by far the most suspendable to me. There's no in-game reason to have your elbows chin high, and the action itself is completely illegal for a good reason.

Langenbrunner's boarding was typical inadvertant but stupid boarding - reckless and a dangerous result but not egregiously illegal hit in and of itself. Boarding is a penalty of the result, not the action, and IMHO, the action in this case was not as egregiously illegal as either elbow.

Murray's hypothetical suspension would be the longest in my book, in the neighborhood of 3 games. I don't see how that isn't a suspendable penalty, particularly given the crackdown on headshots. If I thought it was intentional, I would want more, but putting an elbow into a guy's chin for any reason has to be punished.

The other two depend on your suspension criteria.

If you suspend on the outlandishness of illegal attempt and maliciousness, Heatley gets a game because that was so.... just stupid and illegal even if it didn't connect. If you suspend on the injury resulting because of recklessness, Langenbrunner gets a game.

Given the new standard set with the Chara non-suspension, I'd be hard pressed to give Langenbrunner a game. That was very violent boarding that broke a guys neck but because it was deemed to be part of a hockey play, it was considered to warrant no supplemental discipline. Generally, what Heatley did would not get a suspension either because it did not connect hard (at least, they won't call it if you use your body - sticks get different treatment).

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:52 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
Murray is most certainly NOT a dirty player.....You can give your opinion on Murray's intent, but I'd point you to his history - the guy is about as stand up as they come, and most of his hits come from people targeting HIM.
I don't know about people targeting him, but he has no prior incidents of dirty play from what I recall. Definitely will play a factor in a hearing, if there is one.

As for Heatley: That elbowing attempt was deliberate, no doubt. However, will his previous history (which appears to be clean) be considered and will they consider that it was Ott (someone with a dirty reputation) who got hit? They might.

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03-16-2011, 03:06 AM
  #208
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Just saw the hits on TSN (thanks for the info Hiddenpsyche) and the Murray/Eriksson collision didn't look dirty at all, but the Vincour hit looked pretty bad. However, the worst of them was Heatley because he went out of his way to chicken-wing Ott.

I don't care if it's the Sedins (who I loathe), Pronger (who I also loathe), or Ott that gets hit by that kind of blatant attempt, Heatley needs to be suspended for a few games for intent alone.

If anything Murray should get 2 games for the elbow given that he really isn't a dirty player (heavy hitter sure, lol), but Heatley should be looking at 5 for that kind of sickening nonsense.

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03-16-2011, 03:07 AM
  #209
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Not the first time Heatley has tried to kill somebody, at-least it wasn't his teammate this time.


Last edited by SpinTheBlackCircle: 03-16-2011 at 04:46 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
03-16-2011, 04:43 AM
  #210
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As clean as can be, I hope Eriksson is back the next game.

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03-16-2011, 07:22 AM
  #211
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I finally got a decent look at the Murray hit on Vincour and that would be a weak call if they do something to Murray for that. Murray did not get the elbow up at all. Vincour put himself in a vulnerable position reaching for the puck. Look at the height of Murray's arm throughout the sequence. It doesn't raise until after contact when he's trying to skate through the player to continue on with the puck. There isn't anything that Murray is going to be able to do there to avoid the contact made due to Vincour reaching and lowering himself by going after the puck.

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03-16-2011, 09:44 AM
  #212
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Woywitka sucks. Don't care about anything else.

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03-16-2011, 12:34 PM
  #213
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I just want Heatley to get suspended for that B***S*** elbow. No place for that in the NHL.

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03-16-2011, 01:15 PM
  #214
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Murray on Eriksson was just a hockey play. It's going to happen.

I hope Heatley gets a couple game suspension just for the intent on the cheap elbow. No room in the game for head hunting like that.

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03-16-2011, 04:13 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Murray on Eriksson was just a hockey play. It's going to happen.

I hope Heatley gets a couple game suspension just for the intent on the cheap elbow. No room in the game for head hunting like that.
He's scheduled for a hearing. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'All Star' is disciplined with a warning and chump-change.

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03-16-2011, 04:31 PM
  #216
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Quote:
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Heatley definitely threw the elbow up but there is absolutely no way that he intended to injure as he didn't even follow through on it. Ott took a graze and sold it.
Ummmm...lol

Why in the hell would Heatley throw the elbow to the head when the puck was nowhere near Ott? Sounds like intent to me! The thing is he should get a game or two based on the fact that he was obviously headhunting with the INTENT on delivering an elbow to the head!

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03-16-2011, 05:20 PM
  #217
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I never really had any issues with the Sharks until this game.
Stars deserved to lose after blowing that 2-0 lead. Although, it was fun watching Benn make the sharks players around him look like beer leaguers.

Jumbo Jacka** heavily showering Lehtonen with ice was a pretty dick move. I wished Lehtonen responded by punching Joe-ke in the face with his blocker glove but Kari's too much a nice guy.

Langenbrunners boarding of Wallin was stupid and reckless and should have be penalized. Murray's head shots on Eriksson and Vincour were also stupid and reckless plays. Funny how none of the sharks tried to get Langenbrunner back but instead target a non-physical scoring forward and a smaller 20 year old rookie. Sad that only Ott had the balls to stand up to Murray despite the size advantage Murray has.
Heatleys elbow on Ott was so painfully obvious it was pretty pathetic to see that come from a player of his caliber. Sharks were very fortunate that the only player on our team who has the size and ability to properly hit opposing players was scratched because Crawford is a moron, and the fact that Grossman doesn't have big enough balls yet to use his size more.

But whatever, the Stars aren't going to go very far anyway unless we're completely healthy and the rest of the scoring forwards wake up, because as awesome as Benn is, I don't know how much longer they can rely on him to carry this team game by game. Even then they'd probably just fall in the first round.

As for the Sharks, have fun facing Detroit or Vancouver in the playoffs granted you don't have your yearly playoff choke in the first round instead of the second or third.

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03-16-2011, 05:20 PM
  #218
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Heatley gets 2 game suspension.

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03-16-2011, 05:24 PM
  #219
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Heatley gets 2 game suspension.
****** All-Star's rep didn't work for him, eh? I bet the Guppie-trolls are gone now.

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03-16-2011, 07:26 PM
  #220
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****** All-Star's rep didn't work for him, eh? I bet the Guppie-trolls are gone now.
Pretty sure most reasonable sharks fans knew Heatley was going to get a suspension of some sort. Both of Murray's hits were clean.

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03-17-2011, 05:17 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
to the visiting Sharks fans: Please stop riling up the locals. It is their board and they have a right to express their views and not have you attack them for it.

to the home-team Stars fans: Outside posters are permitted to view and post in team GDTS provided they are not doing it maliciously or attempting to troll and flame. And please be aware that disagreement does not equal trolling. if Sharks fans want to come here and debate the nature of the hits they are able to do so provided they are not actually attempting to flame or maliciously provoke you. A lot of content that was deleted would've been acceptable were it not fruit of the poisonous tree.

and please, if you see something that you feel violates the rules, report it then leave it alone. reporting and responding makes more work for the mods (and potentially gets you in trouble for flaming too) and if the mods do nothing, do not take it as a sign that you should take the law into your own hands and attack the poster. the mods doing nothing is a sign that either it hasn't been seen yet or it's not a rules violation, and neither of those situations warrant you playing the role of moderator yourself.

thank you
Troll..

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03-17-2011, 05:23 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by starsfan4ever View Post
Not the first time Heatley has tried to kill somebody, at-least it wasn't his teammate this time.
What did it say before the DB mod edited it?

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Old
03-17-2011, 12:09 PM
  #223
StarsFan74
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Quote:
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Pretty sure most reasonable sharks fans knew Heatley was going to get a suspension of some sort. Both of Murray's hits were clean.
Reasonable fans:

-don't come on GDT's to "argue technicalities" shortly after the said GDT is fuming with a loss. You can wait after the anger has subsided, can you not?

-neither do they bawl about how dirty Ott is or how Heatley's infraction was a regulation elbowing. If you cannot dissociate yourself from emotion, you are not arguing logically.

-nor do they try instigating the populace here about how crappy the Stars organization is, employing the likes of Ribeiro (for goodness sakes, grow the **** up!!) and Ott.

Honorable Global Moderator, Nemesis, who also happens a Sharks fan, apparently failed (surprise, surprise!!) to account for the timing of the hordes of his fan-base swooping in and the prevalence of the instigatory nature of arguments posted by the "reasonable Sharks fans" who came here, while defending their stance. Needless to say, he is wrong in his assessment. Those who came here that night, came with the intention to gloat and troll...period!

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03-17-2011, 01:31 PM
  #224
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In all of that I think there was only 1 real dirty hit.....

Murray on Eriksson was clean, and he let up on him too. No fault on Murray for that. Good god, Loui, get better.

Langenbrunner on Wallin was tough. Wallin spins, but I could totally have seen 5 and a game out of that against Langs. I think 5 major would have been the right call. I hope he gets better soon.

Murray on Vincour was another tough one. Vincour was in a bad spot. I think Murray was just trying to go through him, for sure, but he did get the elbow on the head. Intent is such a tough thing to judge, and it was absolutely arguable in this one. I am not surprised there is no call with the league from it, but I think there should have been a major called. tough, tough, call.

Aaaaaaaaand the dirty one. This is just such a ridiculously stupid play from Heatley. He probably could have punched Ott in the chest or gave him a solid cross check and got away with just a penalty. He clearly targets the head. Intent is irrelevant when the head is clearly targeted.

enjoy

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Old
03-17-2011, 01:59 PM
  #225
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Ok, so it's two days later and I finally decided to read through the last few pages of this thread (that apparently had to be edited?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtylerjr View Post
Apparently not the homer-feed.

Heatley may have intended a decapitation, but for all intents and purposes, he missed.

Ott should have gotten a diving-call there, for his ridiculous embellishment. And heatley's attempted hit was standard hockey retaliation for ott's shenanigans that earned him 17 minutes of penalties. That's what happens in hockey. You pull what Ott pulled in the first, and people take down your name. The sharks may have a reputation for being soft, but they will protect their players.

4:12 Steve Ott: 2 Minutes for Instigator Douglas Murray (Served by Tomas Vincour)
4:12 Steve Ott: 5 Minute Major for Fighting Douglas Murray
4:12 Steve Ott: 10 Minute Misconduct Douglas Murray

There is a reason Ott got 12 more minutes of penalties there than Murray. Don't make be have to explain it to you.
The above bolded part is just silly. Throwing random elbows is not "standard hockey retaliation" for Ott's actions earlier in this game. As you so astutely point out, Ott received 12 more minutes in penalties than Murray. That is the hockey punishment. Beyond that, if some brave Shark had something to say about about it then hockey protocol would dictate a retaliatory fight, not an errant elbow.

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