The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
St. Louis Blues officially for sale (1/12 NHL "very involved" in finances)
I've heard differently than some of the glowing reports portrayed in this thread. I'll preface my comments by saying that I most certainly doubt they'll ever be up for relocation. That said, it is my understanding that a number of their season tickets this year were sold at only 50% down, balance due if they made the playoffs, a sort of a guaranteed win promo. Well, they aren't making the playoffs and from what I've heard the Blues are taking a bath in part due this promotion.
The reported number of tickets sold in that promo was less than 1000, and most people believe the number is more realistically 400 to 600.
Also, these were seats that were offered much later in the process and more than likely would not have been sold to season ticket holders with out this promotion.
On the other hand, the blues have announced sell outs of 19k + for every game this season. Where those ticket sales are really at and how many they sold or gave away to brokers might be a more relivent question.
[*]A few teams are for sale. I don't know much about Dallas, heard the Leafs are up sfor sale, heard something about the Devils...There's a mess in Phoenix, Atlanta can't or couldn't find a buyer for the past fear years, and now the Blues. If Bettman is still holding onto his "30 healthy franchises", what does the fact that these teams are for sale, and a few can't find buyers? If they are healthy investments and/or franchises, shouldn't there be people willing to step up? (Yes, I know the "30 healthy franchises" could be a work in progress. I also understand the difference between buying a team and being an investor and/or puchasing a chucnk of the team.)[/LIST]
The events you describe makes me think not too many owners feel there is a large TV deal at the end of the rainbow.
If the price for 80% - 90% of the team is $110M, this could prove embarrassing for Gary Bettman. That puts the value of the Blues at about $122M to $137M. The NHL paid $140M for the Coyotes out of bankrupt team, with tepid attendance, virtually no local broadcast audience, the right to assume a horrible lease and, ahem, .... parking rights.
He has convinced Hulsizer to purchase the 'Yotes for $170M + this years losses - but only if the City of Glendale gives him $100M for parking. If the Blues change hands for less than $140M, why would Michael Hulsizer complete this deal? And if the Hulsizer deal fails, why would TNSE in Winnipeg offer more?
This will also effect the sale prices of Dallas and Atlanta.
If the price for 80% - 90% of the team is $110M, this could prove embarrassing for Gary Bettman. That puts the value of the Blues at about $122M to $137M. The NHL paid $140M for the Coyotes out of bankrupt team, with tepid attendance, virtually no local broadcast audience, the right to assume a horrible lease and, ahem, .... parking rights.
He has convinced Hulsizer to purchase the 'Yotes for $170M + this years losses - but only if the City of Glendale gives him $100M for parking. If the Blues change hands for less than $140M, why would Michael Hulsizer complete this deal? And if the Hulsizer deal fails, why would TNSE in Winnipeg offer more?
This will also effect the sale prices of Dallas and Atlanta.
But we do not know how serious the Stillman offer was, it might have been him trying to force checketts out by drawing attention to checketts not listening to any offers that did not involve himself. It would not be surprising if they put in a larger more realistic offer soon
We also do not know if towerbrook wants to keep part of the team bc they keep changing their mind so it could have been anywhere between 10% and 90%. When the offer was made the media/fans were under the impression towerbrook wasnt selling all 70% and checketts was not selling his 10%. We have no way of knowing what % Stillman was offering to buy. If the offer was only 75% of towerbrooks 70% then it was 110 million for 52.5% of the team making the team worth 209 million. So with only knowing the dollar value of Stillman's offer we can conclude the team is worth somewhere between $122 and $209 million
Weird question/thought. Stan Kroenke now owns the NFL's Rams, to gain that ownership he had to divest himself of the Avs and Nuggets due to the NFL's cross-ownership rules (his son Josh is now the owner of the Avs and Nuggets). Isn't the NFL cross-ownership rule that you can't own a franchise in another NFL city? So, therefore, couldn't Kroenke buy the Blues if he so wished?
Weird question/thought. Stan Kroenke now owns the NFL's Rams, to gain that ownership he had to divest himself of the Avs and Nuggets due to the NFL's cross-ownership rules (his son Josh is now the owner of the Avs and Nuggets). Isn't the NFL cross-ownership rule that you can't own a franchise in another NFL city? So, therefore, couldn't Kroenke buy the Blues if he so wished?
Yes, Kroenke could theoretically own the Blues without violating the NFL's cross ownership rules - but Josh would likely have to sell the Avs (so as to not violate the NHL's conflict of interest rules) in order for the League to approve the sale.
Yes, Kroenke could theoretically own the Blues without violating the NFL's cross ownership rules - but Josh would likely have to sell the Avs (so as to not violate the NHL's conflict of interest rules) in order for the League to approve the sale.
To prevent the start of the Norris House League part deux.
Relocate this team to a hockey market that will be excited to have a team and please make sure an owner willing to spend money gets them.
St. Louis hasn't done much in their hockey history and aren't very entertaining anymore to say the least so I hope they go elsewhere.
If you used that criteria, how many other teams would need to be relocated? The issue isn't a lack of fan support; the issue is finding an owner who is committed to winning and spend above the salary cap floor. The Blues are the type of team and St. Louis is the type of market that the NHL needs to succeed.
Last edited by TheFountain16: 04-10-2011 at 11:33 AM.
Relocate this team to a hockey market that will be excited to have a team and please make sure an owner willing to spend money gets them.
St. Louis hasn't done much in their hockey history and aren't very entertaining anymore to say the least so I hope they go elsewhere.
What would you consider a market that wants to have a team? There is only 7 teams that had a higher % of capacity on the season and 2 other teams that were tied with STL. So if the you think the city does not support the team then you must think 23 teams need relocated including 2 Canadian teams. The only reason the Blues % was not higher is because they do not sell standing room only tickets, and the 7 teams ahead of the Blues all do sell standing room only. 34 games last season were sell outs so there was only 6 games in the past 2 years that were not, and thats without being in playoff contention either. They have also set tv ratings records this year. But your right teams that sell out every game on the year even when they have no chance at making the playoffs don't deserve a team.
They haven't dont anything in their history? they went to the stanley cup finals their first 3 years in the league. Made the playoffs 25 years in a row the 3rd longest streak ever out of all major sports. Presidents trophy in 2000. Notable players- Gretzky, Hull, Federko, Macinnis, Pronger, Tkachuk, Mullen, Plante, Hall, Fuhr, Stevens. But once again your right the team has no history.
You obviously do not follow the blues so please do not comment on things you know nothing about
If you used that criteria, how many other teams would need to be relocated? The issue isn't a lack of fan support; the issue is finding an owner who is committed to winning and spend above the salary cap floor. The Blues are the type of team and St. Louis is the type of market that the NHL needs to succeed.
Relocate this team to a hockey market that will be excited to have a team and please make sure an owner willing to spend money gets them.
St. Louis hasn't done much in their hockey history and aren't very entertaining anymore to say the least so I hope they go elsewhere.
Mod: deleted.
OK, then, the concept that St. Louis is not a "hockey market," and the concept that St. Louis "hasn't done much in it's hockey history," AND the concept that the Blues "aren't very entertaining any more," are not just ridiculous, but incredibly ridiculous.
Expressing one's opinion by saying "I hope they go elsewhere" is one thing. It's kind of a silly thing for someone to say, as the NHL is not going to allow a hockey market with almost 50 years of NHL tradition behind it to be displaced... but people are entitled to their opinions.
What's egregious about this post is that it was made with no evident knowledge of the Blues' present or their history.
To say that St. Louis is not a "hockey market" is to overlook not only the Blues' presence in the city for 45 years -- many of those games played to sellout crowds at the old Arena and the new one, including virtually every home game this year -- but also to overlook the original NHL franchise in town, the St. Louis Eagles, and the long tradition of St. Louis minor-league teams in the 40's, 50's and early 60's, when Chicago was as far west at the NHL went.
Last edited by Fugu: 04-12-2011 at 02:47 PM.
Reason: ...
Fan support in the inevitable bad times is precisely what enables/motivates owners to make that kind of commitment.
Fan support is not an issue in St. Louis. Check attendance figures for the last 45 years.
The only issue in St. Louis is that the last time the Blues had an ownership group that was willing to spend big money to bring championship-caliber players to town, the NHL slapped them down for it. You had big-city pontificators like Stan Fischler blaming the first lockout directly on the Blues, and biased "arbitrators" awarding world-class players to other teams as a punishment for the Blues' willingness to spend the money necessary to build a winner.
Now, teams spend like sailors on shore leave, but since the spending is taking place in big TV markets, it's "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" from the NHL offices. Meanwhile, the Blues just keep rolling along with one of the best player development organizations in the NHL, after being taught the expensive lesson that only the NHL's little favorites get to buy a championship.
There have been rumblings out there regarding Dave Checketts and his continuing effort to land investors and maintain control of the St. Louis Blues.
While I have heard the same rumors, I can also confirm this is not the case.
Sources close to the sale tell me Checketts is not looking for investors as his focus remains on selling the team.
...
While no new names have surfaced I am told the search for new Ownership is progressing. Most fans are aware of minority Owner Tom Stillman’s ongoing attempt to buy the club. I’m also told at least one other individual/group who has business interests in St. Louis has expressed interest in buying the club.
Sources tell me it would not be fair to characterize any group as the frontrunner.
I do find it interesting that the Peabody Opera House, scheduled to open later this year, is not part of the package. ... The package for sale includes the Blues, the lease to the Arena, and the Blues AHL affiliate in Peoria, Illinois.
