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How good could it be if we were healthy?

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Old
03-18-2011, 01:20 AM
  #26
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think it's a tough question to ask cuz we wouldn't have had cap to get wiz, sopel, mara....
We would've still been able to get Wiz, but we simply wouldn't have needed Sopel and Mara.

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03-18-2011, 01:23 AM
  #27
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Man do I miss the guys wearing #79 and #26.. especially Markov, haven't seen him much in the last year.

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03-18-2011, 01:32 AM
  #28
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I don't really like to think about it. Not that I wouldn't love to have Markov back, for instance. But at the same time we have all these new guys wearing our jersey, who would not be here. Not that anyone replaces Markov or Gorges, but I like those new guys too. And I am going to cheer for them. I like Sopel a lot. Seems like a great guy. I don't want to talk about a situation that is basically the same as saying what if Sopel (or whoever) wasn't here. They are here. They are Habs. No one really knows where we would be "if" whatever....but we can get behind what we have got and see where we can get to.

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Old
03-18-2011, 01:39 AM
  #29
SergeConstantin74
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Remember the last few years when Markov was always our best player, always named in the three stars? This guy is one of the best in the league. When he is healthy, he is a top 5 defenseman. He is reliable on defense and played big minutes on the PK. He also upgrades our offense at 5-on-5 and on the PP. He was everything for us. Habs miss him A LOT. Bruins wouldn't be the same without Chara. Philly wouldn't be the same without Pronger. We aren't the same without Markov.

Sorry, I feel sentimental tonight.

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Old
03-18-2011, 02:59 AM
  #30
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If all the best players in our organization were healthy including the guys for whom we traded, if we had the cap space, I think we would be contenders.

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Old
03-18-2011, 04:13 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
We haven't had a constantly, or relatively healthy lineup in ages.
in 2007-2008, when we won the conference, we had one of the fewest man-games lost in the league (maybe THE fewest)...

I'd argue that virtually any team that has no significant injuries during a given season is bound to end up as a playoff team, and likely a high seeded one...

does anyone have the recent numbers on that?

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Old
03-18-2011, 09:45 AM
  #32
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We'd be at the top of the conference and we'd still get hate. Other team's fans would still say that teams X-Y and Z are better because they play in tougher divisions, because they have injuries, (because they don't have 24 cups and the best fanbase in the world)...

Yeah, I went there.

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Old
03-18-2011, 11:38 AM
  #33
Poulet Kostopoulos
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How good? 9th place, according to TSN "experts" panel, if I remember correctly.

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Old
03-18-2011, 11:49 AM
  #34
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I don't buy the argument..."if so and so was healthy, we wouldn't have this player" for two reasons: The first is that we are just dreaming and I don't see why we should limit dreams. The second is that you could make the argument that if Markov and or Georges came back the week before playoffs (which they wont), you could fit their salaries under the cap and use them for the playoffs.

My lineup would therefore be:

Cammalleri Plekanec Kostitsyn
Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Pouliot Desharnais Eller
Moen Halpern White

Markov Subban
Hamrlik Wisniewski
Georges Sopel

Price

This could be next years lineup. Basically, your resigning the players that were there at the begining of the year, replacing Spacek and Gill by Wis and Sopel, and keeping five of the six rookies that have joined the team this year (DD., Eller, Pacioretty, White and PK...leaving Webber as the 7th d.)

The only thing missing in this picture would be to replace Gomez by a 7 million dollars center that plays up to his contract, and we would have a team that should be considered a contender.

The other problem is that I don't think you can give Spacek away or get rid of his cap hit by any means.

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Old
03-18-2011, 11:52 AM
  #35
Joe Cole
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Durability and consistancy is an important element in what makes a player/team better than another.

This is one of the reasons larger bodies are prefered over smaller players. Wear and tear is such a huge factor.

While it is fun to think of a Habs team with no injuries, but there are so many factors in what makes a season a season. Plus, every other team has injuries too. So, it's such an incredible moving target.

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Old
03-18-2011, 11:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou View Post

My lineup would therefore be:

Cammalleri Plekanec Kostitsyn
Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Pouliot Desharnais Eller
Moen Halpern White

Markov Subban
Hamrlik Wisniewski
Georges Sopel

Price
Placing Eller on the wing is a bad idea, look at how he is flying now. I get rid of Gomez and keep Plek, Eller, DD and Halpern @ centre and sign a top line winger instead.

Splitting Eller and AK is also a bad idea IMO for the very same reason.

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:05 PM
  #37
SergeConstantin74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
How good? 9th place, according to TSN "experts" panel, if I remember correctly.
If we had told them we would lose Markov and Gorges for the season, plus several players for multiple games, they would have said 14th!

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:22 PM
  #38
boubou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Placing Eller on the wing is a bad idea, look at how he is flying now. I get rid of Gomez and keep Plek, Eller, DD and Halpern @ centre and sign a top line winger instead.

Splitting Eller and AK is also a bad idea IMO for the very same reason.
I agree with both your coments but I just tried to do something with the players at hand (or injured).

Therefore I had to choose between Eller or DD as third center, and then decide if the loser of that choice was better playing wing or fourth center. Like you, I prefer Eller at center...maybe DD could play the wing even if he is small and more of a playmaker.

As far as Kostitsyn is concerned, it might be better to leave him on the third line and play Pouliot with Plekanec, because I don't see Moen as a first or second line center. But will Pouliot be able to succeed on a line with Cammallerri and Plekanec ?

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:28 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
If we had told them we would lose Markov and Gorges for the season, plus several players for multiple games, they would have said 14th!
But that's because of the gaping hole we had in net

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:31 PM
  #40
King Woodballs
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well
we wouldnt have had to trade those picks to fix the D
they could have been used for a goal scorer or two
which would have improved this team

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Old
03-18-2011, 12:35 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
Who is to say? Maybe part of our moderate success is the fact that this team has really gelled because of the adversity.
I agree... same reality last year and we've seen the results. That's exactly why I am optimistic for the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
we are very comfortably 6th in the east within 4 points of boston with 9 regulars out and no markov all year.

i think martin (amongst others) deserves mad props from the people here who call for him to get fired every time we lost 3 in a row.
Agreed. Just like Bylsma is doing an awesome job with Crosby and Malkin out.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 03-18-2011 at 12:56 PM.
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Old
03-18-2011, 12:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
How much better would we be if we were completely healthy?
About the same. The team plays a system where 6 players gather in front of our net. It doesn't really matter who the players are and we're seeing it with the team missing Plekanec and Pacioretty up front, in addition, without 4 of our top d-men.

I'll be very, very concerned if Price goes down to injury not because Auld isn't a good backup, but because it's a system that relies heavily on Carey Price being well above ordinary, but needs him to be amongst the best in the NHL. We say it last year with Halak and we're seeing it again with Price, who has won the Molson Cup every month but one, and the team struggled that month. Anything less than Price in goal and we're out of the playoffs' picture.

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Old
03-18-2011, 01:45 PM
  #43
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With Markov/Gorges we might have another 6-8 pts...bottom line is Price, he has made this happen with or without those 2 Dmen...

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Old
03-18-2011, 02:56 PM
  #44
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If Rangers don't want him, I'd sign Vaclav Prospal to a 1-2 yrs contract.

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Old
03-18-2011, 05:45 PM
  #45
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I think we are right about where we are now. What I'm excited about is next year if the Habs keep a healthy line-up. Could be a very solid team if our young guys continue to develop as well as they have.

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Old
03-19-2011, 07:57 AM
  #46
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I bet the Flyers,Pens,Rags,Booins and 90% of the other teams are saying the same thing.Injuries happen.And even more so to small and/or old player. Deal with it.

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Old
03-19-2011, 09:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
About the same. The team plays a system where 6 players gather in front of our net. It doesn't really matter who the players are and we're seeing it with the team missing Plekanec and Pacioretty up front, in addition, without 4 of our top d-men.

I'll be very, very concerned if Price goes down to injury not because Auld isn't a good backup, but because it's a system that relies heavily on Carey Price being well above ordinary, but needs him to be amongst the best in the NHL. We say it last year with Halak and we're seeing it again with Price, who has won the Molson Cup every month but one, and the team struggled that month. Anything less than Price in goal and we're out of the playoffs' picture.
You can't possibly be serious.

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Old
03-19-2011, 11:49 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You can't possibly be serious.
No I'm not serious, that's why I wrote it.

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Old
03-19-2011, 06:06 PM
  #49
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
No I'm not serious, that's why I wrote it.
I apologize. Maybe I give you more credit than I should and simply didn't believe you could be so far off as your post was leading me to think. I thought perhaps you forgot the sarcasm icon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
About the same. The team plays a system where 6 players gather in front of our net. It doesn't really matter who the players are and we're seeing it with the team missing Plekanec and Pacioretty up front, in addition, without 4 of our top d-men.

I'll be very, very concerned if Price goes down to injury not because Auld isn't a good backup, but because it's a system that relies heavily on Carey Price being well above ordinary, but needs him to be amongst the best in the NHL. We say it last year with Halak and we're seeing it again with Price, who has won the Molson Cup every month but one, and the team struggled that month. Anything less than Price in goal and we're out of the playoffs' picture.
It's one thing to say a few players can temporarily step in and perform the system as others have, but it's another to say Markov, Gorges, Spacek, MaxPac, Plekanec, Gill, Sopel, Halpern, wouldn't improve our team a whole much. It's actually quite idiotic to believe that, and you're not an idiot, hence my ''you can't possibly be serious comment''.

If you truly believe that losing Plekanec and Halpern alone doesn't hold much of an impact, than I have to question just how attentive you were during our past couple games.

Our team would be significantly better without our injuries. Perhaps we feel the effect of our injuries less under Martin's system, but our team would be imo, without a doubt, leading the division if Markov, Gorges and Spacek were healthy.

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Old
03-19-2011, 07:15 PM
  #50
Habsterix*
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I apologize. Maybe I give you more credit than I should and simply didn't believe you could be so far off as your post was leading me to think. I thought perhaps you forgot the sarcasm icon.

It's one thing to say a few players can temporarily step in and perform the system as others have, but it's another to say Markov, Gorges, Spacek, MaxPac, Plekanec, Gill, Sopel, Halpern, wouldn't improve our team a whole much. It's actually quite idiotic to believe that, and you're not an idiot, hence my ''you can't possibly be serious comment''.

If you truly believe that losing Plekanec and Halpern alone doesn't hold much of an impact, than I have to question just how attentive you were during our past couple games.

Our team would be significantly better without our injuries. Perhaps we feel the effect of our injuries less under Martin's system, but our team would be imo, without a doubt, leading the division if Markov, Gorges and Spacek were healthy.
Defensively, under Martin's system, the only player that would be greatly be missed would be Carey Price as nothing but a top 5 goalie could sustain the constant pressure in their zone. You can put just about any 5 dummies collapsing in front of Price and defensively, the results would be similar. Offensively, Markov and Plekanec are missed.



Last edited by Habsterix*: 03-19-2011 at 08:18 PM.
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