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Offseason: Would you trade Edler for Weber?

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Old
03-20-2011, 01:30 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by EskemoJoe View Post
A 3 million increase in cap so you just let hoff go and move some small assets around.
If only adding Weber was that simple.

I am really sick of the Weber talk. I just wish he would sign in Nashville long term so we could stop with the absurd Weber to Vancouver hypotheticals. He's not going anywhere.

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03-20-2011, 01:31 AM
  #27
Vancouver_2010
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Originally Posted by EskemoJoe View Post
A 3 million increase in cap so you just let hoff go and move some small assets around.
not just defense though, both Salo and Bieska are UFA after this season, Torres, Hansen, Lapierre and Higgins are up for raise as well.

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03-20-2011, 03:25 AM
  #28
deckercky
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I would do it without a second thought, and I'm a huge Edler fan. Weber is the type of franchise defenseman that we all hope Edler will grow into.
Agreed. We would be taking a big cap hit for now, but in 2 years, Weber would still be better, and the cap hits wouldn't be as far apart.

If we got Weber, Ballard would probably have to be traded too, to free the cap space.

The cap hell from taking on Weber would be a good problem to have.

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03-20-2011, 03:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JamesBond View Post
If only adding Weber was that simple.

I am really sick of the Weber talk. I just wish he would sign in Nashville long term so we could stop with the absurd Weber to Vancouver hypotheticals. He's not going anywhere.
I am as against the idea as much as anyone else. As i said before, the picks you would have to give up to sign him as an RFA put the whole thing out of the question anyway.

And as far as trading edler, no way. He is my favorite player on the team

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03-20-2011, 03:47 AM
  #30
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How about some loyalty, or would you guys trade every single player on the Canucks if you could replace them with more efficient terminator robots? Rooting for a certain team kind of loses its meaning if you view all the players on it as replaceable at any time. Sure Weber is better right now than Edler, but that's not the point.

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03-20-2011, 05:20 AM
  #31
JohnShorthouse
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our blueline is deep as it is - when everyones healthy of course - so there really is no need for weber in vancouver. Besides, Edler is a beast. Love that mofo.

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03-20-2011, 05:32 AM
  #32
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All things being equal, I guess yeah. But at a year younger, much lower cap hit for the next 2 years, much more underrated in his overall game...I would not. I seriously think Edler is a top 10 defenseman in the league today.

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03-20-2011, 08:36 AM
  #33
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If salary cap didn't exist, sure.

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Old
03-20-2011, 10:55 AM
  #34
JuniorNelson
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Originally Posted by Inker View Post
If we want to sign Weber to an offersheet that Nashville can't match then we're going to have to clear a lot of room off the defence anyways.
I do not refer to Weber as an RFA, I mean, wait until he is actually a free agent. His team will keep him for next year, IMO.

As far as keeping Weber under the cap, I think Ballard can be moved, Salo will retire and Ehrhoff will test FA. There would be feasible options if some deal was made this offseason.

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Old
03-20-2011, 10:59 AM
  #35
VanEric
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I do not refer to Weber as an RFA, I mean, wait until he is actually a free agent. His team will keep him for next year, IMO.

As far as keeping Weber under the cap, I think Ballard can be moved, Salo will retire and Ehrhoff will test FA. There would be feasible options if some deal was made this offseason.
Sure but you're sacrificing a lot of overall team depth.

I'm not convinced Weber is at Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara levels of being able to control a game and worthy of the type of $$$ he's likely going to get. I've never seen it when the Canucks play Nashville or when I've seen Nashville play against other teams.

He's arguably not even the best defenseman on his team.

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03-20-2011, 11:05 AM
  #36
Tiranis
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Sure but you're sacrificing a lot of overall team depth.

I'm not convinced Weber is at Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara levels of being able to control a game and worthy of the type of $$$ he's likely going to get. I've never seen it when the Canucks play Nashville or when I've seen Nashville play against other teams.

He's arguably not even the best defenseman on his team.
And this is why I would never give up Edler for Weber. Weber looked Bieksa-bad when Suter was out of the lineup. He gets so overrated because he's a very flashy type of defenseman, but his defensive game is not particularly great.

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03-20-2011, 11:25 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
he's a very flashy type of defenseman, but his defensive game is not particularly great.
Really?

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Old
03-20-2011, 11:27 AM
  #38
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I like Edler as much as the next guy but anyone seriously proposing that he is a better d-man than Shea Weber, is out to lunch, imo.

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03-20-2011, 11:27 AM
  #39
VanEric
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Really?
Not at a Chara or Pronger type levels. Or at a Ryan Suter level.

He's very good but people overrate him in their minds because they don't watch him play a ton.

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Old
03-20-2011, 12:35 PM
  #40
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No. In cap terms, is Shea Weber twice the player of Alex Edler? No, he's not. Nobody could make that argument with a straight face.
This is a hollow argument. Weber is a #1. Is Edler? Close, but he maybe near his peak also. A #2 d-man never makes half the money of a #1 so why use that measuring stick?
Edler is signed to a great contract for the Canucks, but a bad one for him.

Weber for Edler, hell yes.

And Weber gets Keith/Seabrook money. Not $7.5m a year. He is good but not THAT good.

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Old
03-20-2011, 12:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
And this is why I would never give up Edler for Weber. Weber looked Bieksa-bad when Suter was out of the lineup. He gets so overrated because he's a very flashy type of defenseman, but his defensive game is not particularly great.

I think we may be in the minority, but I agree with you.


Still, that is a stunning statement to make about an olympian, right shot, behemoth, good skating, booming shot, decent defensively dman in his prime. Likely, few are going to step out of that concept to accurately judge him.


He is not a stalwart defensively. Meaning, he's not going to carry a team from back there. But that's ok for Nashville because they have Suter. To contrast, Edler has greatly improved defensively. You can tell it's him that carries Ehrhoff, and the defense as a whole. He is the team's #1, and is slowly piecing his game together in increments. This year, prior to the injury, he was poised to have his best season. I don't watch Weber closely enough to understand if he is making the same increments himself. Is he slowly getting better at all facets of the game? I'm not sure.


And like you said, Weber has not seemed all that consistent to me every time I watch him. To me, consistency is the attribute most people should be contemplating in this debate. Interesting question though.

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03-20-2011, 12:48 PM
  #42
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I'm hoping he Bouwmeesters Nashville. Or someone gets him to sign a one year offer sheet which Nashville matches.

We'd have as good a chance as anyone at picking him up if he was UFA.

Edler for Weber? No thanks.

Edler + Weber? Yes please.

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03-20-2011, 12:51 PM
  #43
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I'd rather be loyal to our players and hold on to Edler to see how he continues to develop. I think he has the potential to be great.

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03-20-2011, 12:56 PM
  #44
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
He is not a stalwart defensively. Meaning, he's not going to carry a team from back there. But that's ok for Nashville because they have Suter. To contrast, Edler has greatly improved defensively. You can tell it's him that carries Ehrhoff, and the defense as a whole. He is the team's #1, and is slowly piecing his game together in increments. This year, prior to the injury, he was poised to have his best season. I don't watch Weber closely enough to understand if he is making the same increments himself. Is he slowly getting better at all facets of the game? I'm not sure.

And like you said, Weber has not seemed all that consistent to me every time I watch him. To me, consistency is the attribute most people should be contemplating in this debate. Interesting question though.
I hope nobody thinks that I think Weber doesn't have any good qualities or whatever. He's clearly excellent offensively, has an amazing shot, loves to hit, is a good leader, and many other things. However, he has the luxury of playing with another #1 guy in Suter, a guy who is excellent defensively and can cover for Weber.

There's a reason so many Nashville fans say that Suter is more important to their team. Also, of note, I have yet to see Weber dominate a series like Edler did against the Kings. Would anyone trade the Edler we have seen in the playoffs for Weber?

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03-20-2011, 01:26 PM
  #45
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I would not.

1) Cap
2) I don't believe Edler has peaked quite yet
3) I know this isn't of prime importance when putting together a winning team, but I like the idea of holding onto our players--guys that have come up through our system, learned everything they know from our coaches, and turned into great players in front of our eyes. Just like the Sedins are a distincly Vancouver product.

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Old
03-20-2011, 01:42 PM
  #46
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I hope nobody thinks that I think Weber doesn't have any good qualities or whatever.
Did my post intimate that this was what you were saying?

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03-20-2011, 01:47 PM
  #47
VanEric
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
This is a hollow argument. Weber is a #1. Is Edler? Close, but he maybe near his peak also. A #2 d-man never makes half the money of a #1 so why use that measuring stick?
Edler is signed to a great contract for the Canucks, but a bad one for him.

Weber for Edler, hell yes.

And Weber gets Keith/Seabrook money. Not $7.5m a year. He is good but not THAT good.
Are you sure about that? Keith's contract is artificially low because of the length. I don't think this team needs another 10-15 year type contract.

Edler's contract is reasonable because he signed it before he got this good. He could have regressed and it would've been seen as an overpayment.

The cap is all about getting the most value out of the dollars you allocate. I don't feel the difference in talent between Weber and Edler is as big as the difference in cap space will be.

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Old
03-20-2011, 02:13 PM
  #48
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No. Weber is obviously the better defenceman right now, but I firmly believe that Edler is actually better offensively and the superior PP quarterback. What Weber has going for him, offensively speaking, is his shot. He can fire cannons on the PP and they either result in a goal for him or a rebound for another player, which gives Weber an automatic assist.

I'm not saying Weber has a big shot and nothing else, I just feel like Edler fits the Canucks system better with his extremely effective outlet pass and PP quarterbacking skills.

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Old
03-20-2011, 02:29 PM
  #49
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One billion percent yes.

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Old
03-20-2011, 03:07 PM
  #50
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Did my post intimate that this was what you were saying?
Sorry, I used your post as a "launching pad". Wasn't meant as a direct reply.

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