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Old
03-21-2011, 12:58 PM
  #76
canadianeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Personally I would rather think about what our lineup will be come playoff time. Who will be back and at what point etc. I think next years lineup will have a lot to do with how far we make it this year and it is hard to predict who will be around next year, outside the core youngsters, until we are eliminated or win the cup....I prefer the latter.
Cammy-Plek-Halpern
Gionta-Gomez-Pacioretty(hopefully)/Moen
AK-Eller-White
Moen/Pyatt/Darche-DD-Pouliot
Pyatt/Darche

Subban-Gill
Hammer-Wiz
Mara-Sopel
Weber/Picard

Price

I don't think there are a whole lot of question marks. Is Patches can play, then Moen drops to the 4th line and Darche/Pyatt sit. If Patches can't play Moen is up on the line with Gomez/Gionta and Pyatt or Darche play on the 4th line.

Which is why next years lineup ideas are more interesting to talk about.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:01 PM
  #77
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The cap should be going up 2-3M next season with the new US TV deal and the new Molson-Coors deal already adds 400K direct to the cap so take that into account.


FA signings
Michael Rupp (1.1M) - Capable 4th liner / Light heavy weight
Ville Leino or Brooks Laich (3.8M) - both will be a popular player come Jul 1 Either would be a good 2nd line winger.

Gomez - You don't have to go home but you can't stay here
AK46 - 1 or 2 year deal max the guy is talented but inconsistent, not long term deal material.
Markov - 2-4 year deal cap hit going down as years go up (I went 3yr/5M)
DD - @1.5 Little higher than he should get but I say give a 2 or 3 year deal which I think will pay off in the long run

Cammy (6) - Pleky (5) - Gionta (5)
Patches (1.2) - DD (1.5) - Leino ( 3.8)
Pouliot (1.5) - Eller (1.3) - Kostitsyn (3.5)
Moen (1.5) - Halpern (1) - Rupp (1.1)
Darche (1) / White (.8) / Engqvist (.9)

14 forwards (34.2M)

Markov (5) - Subban (.875)
Gill / Hamr (2-3M) - Gorges (2.75)
Wisniewski (4.25) - Spacek (3.8)
Weber (.9)

7 Defensemen (20.6M)

Price (2.75M)
Backup (1M)

Goaltending (3.75M)

Total = 58M use remaining cap space to get rid of Gomez some how

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:04 PM
  #78
macavoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Really, how in these times and after the Pacioretty injury can you wish for a player like Cooke being part of this organisation.
I honestly believe it was a freak injury that happened on a hockey play that was a bit of a dirty hit. Dirty hits are part of the game imo. They happen every single game.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:07 PM
  #79
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I think the forward group will be a bit more predictable than the defense going into the off season. I see it shaping up as the following:

Cammalleri-Plekanec-XXXX
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Kostitsyn-Eller-Moen
Pouliot-Desharnais-White

YYYY
ZZZZ


For XXXX, would be nice to find a good winger for these two that can fill the role of a Pacioretty/Moen on that line. I saw a few suggest Eric Cole and I think he would be a great fit. Other possibilities (not sure if they play RW) could include a guy like Laich or Upshall, not sure what kind of $$$ we'll have to spend on that spot though.

YYYY and ZZZZ will most likely be filler... possibly one or two of Pyatt/Darche/Halpern will come back.

While this lineup doesn't boast any superstars, I'd be really comfortable with the depth/quality of all 4 of those lines.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:18 PM
  #80
canadianeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I honestly believe it was a freak injury that happened on a hockey play that was a bit of a dirty hit. Dirty hits are part of the game imo. They happen every single game.
Funny how those "accidents" seem to happen around Cooke a lot.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:19 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_habs_go View Post
Mike Cammalleri - Tomas Plekanec - Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty - David Desharnais - Brooks Laich
Andrei Kostitsyn - Lars Eller - Benoit Pouliot
Ryan White - Zenon Konopka - Travis Moen
Mathieu Darche/Tom Pyatt

Andrei Markov - Josh Gorges
P.K. Subban - Roman Hamrlik
James Wisniewski - Jaroslav Spacek
Alex Henry

Carey Price
Curtis Sanford
I love that line up. A bit weak at center but I feel the overall strength of the 3 lines and defense would make up for it.

Also love that 4th line, just the right mix of grinding, gooning and grit. With Konopka being a solid face offs guy too. If it were me, I'd try to find a taker for Spacek, and obviously Weber is missing from that line up, not sure where he went. Also, I'd go with someone else than Sanford. Possibly try to bring Auld back.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:19 PM
  #82
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First two things I would do:
Get rid of Gomez somehow?
Get rid of Spacek somehow?

Sign Brooks Laich as UFA and resign Halpern and our RFA's on forward. Get some discounts by offering Desharnais, Pacioretty and White to one way deals. Re-sign Markov, Wiz, Gill, Hammer and Gorges on D and sign Weber to a one way deal as the 7th d-man.


Pacioretty (1M) - Plekanec (5M) - Gionta (5M)
Laich (4.5M) - Eller (1.27M) - Cammalleri (6M)
Pouliot (1.35M) - Desharnais (0.5M) - Kostitsyn (3.5M)
Moen (1.5M) - Halpern (1M) - White (0.5M)
Darche (0.5M) - Pyatt (0.5M)
Forwards = $32.12M

Markov (5.5M) - Wizniewski (5.0M)
Subban (0.875M) - Gill (2.5M)
Hamrlik (3.0M)- Gorges (3.0M)
Weber (0.5M)
Defense = $20.375M

Price
Auld
Goalie = $3.75M

Total = $56.245M
Space = $3.155M

I think by deleting Gomez and adding Laich or someone similar we would be a much better team. I think Cammy needs size to open up space for him. Laich with Eller would be physical enough to open up room for Cammy and hopefully get him back to his fearless sniper game that he lacks this year.

The only question mark would be if Eller and Desharnais are ready for 2nd/3rd line duty. I think they can handle it.

Sprinkle in Dawes, Palushaj, Engqvist, Carle, Nash as callups.

Really not too many changes so we should be able to keep our chemistry.

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:20 PM
  #83
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I like the idea of Getting Rupp to fill out our forwards and then spending the money on our D, by resigning Wis and Gill, and giving Markov a 1 year, 5 million dollar deal for him to prove he can stay healthy. Send Spacek through waivers or send him down, whatever, get rid of him we have the money. Not that he's horrible but Wis makes him useless. We'd be well under the cap, leaving us with the chance to take on salary at the deadline if we need to.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.750m)
Max Pacioretty ($0.910m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.350m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.550m) / Michael Rupp ($1.250m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.000m) / James Wisniewski ($4.250m)
Hal Gill ($2.250m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Josh Gorges ($1.100m) / Paul Mara ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Alex Auld ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $53,512,976; BONUSES: $400,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $5,887,024

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Old
03-21-2011, 01:30 PM
  #84
Habs Icing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Kostityn - Eller - Cammalleri
XXXXXX - Desharnais - Pouliot
Moen - Engqvist - White
Extras: Pyatt, Darche


Markov - Subban
Wisniewski - Gorges
Gill - Weber
Nash
Wishful thinking on my part but I'll give it a try.

Patches - Pleks - Cammy
A.K. - Eller - Gionta
Pouliot - DD - White
Moen - Engqvist - MR. GRIT

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Hamrlik - Wiz

I would package Pyatt, Gomez, Spacek & Weber (Weber goes only if we can sign the above mentioned d-men). I would love to get a young power forward for the package and move him into White's spot and have White move to the 4 th line. But I think the Wiz will walk so we'll keep Weber and only have Pyatt, Gomez & Spacek to deal.

Darche would be the extra forward...Sopel & Mara would be the xtra d-men.

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Old
03-21-2011, 02:03 PM
  #85
Dan K
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For everyone wanting to get rid of Spacek (and I do too, believe me), it's not that easy. We can't just waive him or send him to Hamilton or have him retire. He's on a 35+ contract, meaning unless we can trade him to another team, we're stuck with the cap hit next year.

If we can have some aggressive, creative GM'ing, I think the best move would be to trade him for a similar problem contract but of a player we COULD bury in the minors. Something like Spacek for Souray. Both are on the final year of their deals. Edmonton won't care about the additional cap hit, saves some cash, and given their lack of depth on D, Spacek might help the team. Souray would be waived next training camp before we have to comply to the salary cap and would be a big boost to what could be a young/lacking offense Hamilton team next season. We eat the contract, but have no cap hit.

I would LOVE to field a defense like:

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Hamrlik - Wisniewski
Weber

next year, but it would be a very very tight squeeze under the cap. Gonna be tough to see some of these guys go.

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Old
03-21-2011, 02:36 PM
  #86
macavoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianeh View Post
Funny how those "accidents" seem to happen around Cooke a lot.
I don't think what Cooke has done have been accidents compared to Chara. I think there is considerable intent in Cooke's case but I'm old fashioned, I like that kind of stuff. I agree that hits to the head should be outlawed and people who break the rules should be punished harshly.

That being said, I like what Cooke brings to the table. I've always liked the rough stuff.

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Old
03-21-2011, 02:57 PM
  #87
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Here's what I think would be a good, solid lineup for next year...

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.250m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m)
Raffi Torres ($1.750m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Travis Moen ($1.500m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.350m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Tom Pyatt ($0.500m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.000m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Shane O'Brien ($1.750m) / Josh Gorges ($2.750m)
Roman Hamrlik ($2.500m) / Yannick Weber ($0.875m)
Jaroslav Spacek ($3.833m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Mathieu Garon ($1.200m)

BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)

CAP PAYROLL: $58,711,309

***

Up front, I would mainly stick with what we have. Save for Torres (or an equivalent), a decent scorer with lots of grit who can drop them if need be, I don't see the Habs making any splash on offense.

I am giving Gomez more of a defensive role on the 3rd line. Also he and Moen have good chemistry... I can see these guys scoring some 25-35 goals as a defensively responsible line.

Desharnais' line, though the 4th line would still get their 10-14 minutes as I think rolling 4 lines is the best way to have success during the course of an 82 games schedule. I also think this line can outperform Gomez' line and put up as many as 40 goals. I would give DD some PP time as well.

I can also see Plekanec playing with AK and Cammaleri and Gomez joining Max and Gionta to shake things up, dropping Eller to 3rd line duties if he fails to produce offensively.

I would keep Pyatt and Darche as they cost next to nothing and can compliment the bottom 6 nicely... If ever, we are in dire need for offense, I would give either Palushaj or Avtsin a call up, pending who's been the better of the 2 down in Hamilton.

As far as defense goes... I feel good with keeping things close to where they were supposed to be (injury forced us to do some serious patch work), adding O'Brien for muscle. I also think the Habs owe Markov at least one more year before moving on (if the injuries persist) and that Wiz will be too expansive for what he brings... Especially with Subban and Webber making huge strides this year.

I would also allow Hammer to finish his career with MTL and Spacek is a good insurance...

For back up goaltending, Garon stands out as my number one choice. If for some reason, we couldn't lure him back to MTL, then I would go for guys like Boucher or Lalime.

***

The salaries may not quite be on par with what the players will truly command but I think it's close... To me, the main goal should be to keep building team chemistry and to slowly bring the young guns into a more prominent role. Of course, this lineup is not a given contender, but seeing what we have accomplished this year, I think we could very well compete for the division and make noise in the playoff with a team along those lines.

Fire away!


Last edited by boomboommax: 03-21-2011 at 03:04 PM.
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Old
03-21-2011, 03:23 PM
  #88
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Get Laich and Rupp here



Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cammalleri
Laich - Gomez - Gionta
Pouliot - Desharnais - White
Kostitsyn - Eller - Rupp

Markov - Gorges
Wizniewski - Spacek
Subban - Gill


Last edited by odishabs: 03-21-2011 at 03:50 PM.
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Old
03-21-2011, 03:36 PM
  #89
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The one constant in this thread, sprinkled a little bit throughout is the technicolor glasses some seem to peer through as they gaze upon their beloved Montreal Canadien's future.

Above all else hockey is a business and thankfully its hockey minds and not fan-boys that make the tough decisions.

It is somehow a recurring theme that we are to get rid of Gomez and Spacek. Contract aside, Gomez is not the Gomez of the stretch and playoff run of last year. Players go thru this on a regular basis, get used to it. If we applied that formula to Plekanec, he would've been gone awhile ago.
As for Spacek, it amazes me how one can go from being lauded as a shutdown pairing D-man instrumental in the Habs drive of last year to chicken fodder this year. Need I remind you that it takes two parties to sign a contract. Start divesting of assets on a regular basis and watch the line-up of free agents queuing up to not sign here.

Will Gomez be moved? Most likely next year when his hit surpasses his salary. Will Spacek be moved? I doubt it, it being the last year of his contract.

Will Wiz be back? I don't think so.

Hamrlik / Gill? One of the two will return, but not both.

Will we keep our RFAs? Highly likely as this is cost control and this is what hockey has now become.

Hockey is a business and it is to be run like one if you aspire to success

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Old
03-21-2011, 03:54 PM
  #90
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I don't think we can go into next year after a summer of addressing our size issue with Eller and Desharnais as our bottom two centers. We'll be asking for more of the same next year. We'll do everything we can to get rid of Gomez, shift Eller to #2, Desharnais to #3 and a guy like Konopka at #4.

Pouliot, Desharnais and White is the ideal 3rd line, but we could also do with Kostitsyn in White's place. Guys who can score and play well defensively. Pouliot is a borderline 2nd line player but owns teams when playing on the 3rd line. I say leave him there. Same with Kostitsyn, just not consistent enough over a whole season to play on the top 2 lines.

Lock up Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, Cammalleri and Gionta and acquire a player with size to play with Cammalleri and Plekanec on the top line. Then you have:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - xx
Pacioretty - Eller - Gionta
Pouliot - Desharnais - AK
Moen - Konopka - White

Markov - Wisniewski
xx - Subban
Gill - Gorges

As much as I like Hamrlik, we need some change on the back end. We can't go into next season with the same D. Weber doesn't fit in that top 6 either given the need for more size and the organization of the pairings (but the other option is going Markov - Gorges, Wisniewski - Subban and Gill - Weber, but then we don't address the size issue). I'd re-sign Gill simply because of his leadership and PK. The way we've played this year with all of our injuries, you can't discount how much that leadership is worth.

Anyways, guys like Weber and Pyatt are young and expendable. We need to keep Wisniewski instead of Weber and Gorges coming back makes it hard to accommodate everyone.

Ideal guys for the two available positions are Dustin Brown and Robin Regehr. Those are exactly the types of players we need, but we'll need players in those molds.

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Old
03-21-2011, 04:06 PM
  #91
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I love the fact that we could potentially have 3 d-men with over 50 points next year with Subban, Wiz and Markov.

When was the last time we had that?

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Old
03-21-2011, 04:09 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
I love the fact that we could potentially have 3 d-men with over 50 points next year with Subban, Wiz and Markov.

When was the last time we had that?
A longgg time. But we have to complement them with guys with size and grit. We don't have that unfortunately.

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Old
03-21-2011, 04:17 PM
  #93
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Patches-Eller-any competent POWER RW(KNUBLE) would be a smashing 1st line, imho.

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Old
03-21-2011, 04:27 PM
  #94
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Subban - Subban - Subban
Subban - Subban - Subban
Subban - Plekanec - Subban
Subban - Subban - Subban

Subban - Subban
Markov - Subban
Subban - Subban


Subban
Price


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Old
03-21-2011, 04:46 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_habs_go View Post
Mike Cammalleri - Tomas Plekanec - Brian Gionta
Max Pacioretty - David Desharnais - Brooks Laich
Andrei Kostitsyn - Lars Eller - Benoit Pouliot
Ryan White - Zenon Konopka - Travis Moen
Mathieu Darche/Tom Pyatt

Andrei Markov - Josh Gorges
P.K. Subban - Roman Hamrlik
James Wisniewski - Jaroslav Spacek
Alex Henry

Carey Price
Curtis Sanford
+1 for Konopka. Perfect 4th line center for us.

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Old
03-21-2011, 05:03 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
A longgg time. But we have to complement them with guys with size and grit. We don't have that unfortunately.
True. While Gorges is a great d-man, he's not the nasty stay at home D-man that we'd need, neither is Hamrlik, or Gill or Spacek. The closest thing we have right now is Paul Mara (who probably won't be resigned, although he's worth a cheap contract), and hopefully Jarred Tinordi in a few years.

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Old
03-21-2011, 05:03 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I don't think we can go into next year after a summer of addressing our size issue with Eller and Desharnais as our bottom two centers. We'll be asking for more of the same next year. We'll do everything we can to get rid of Gomez, shift Eller to #2, Desharnais to #3 and a guy like Konopka at #4.

Pouliot, Desharnais and White is the ideal 3rd line, but we could also do with Kostitsyn in White's place. Guys who can score and play well defensively. Pouliot is a borderline 2nd line player but owns teams when playing on the 3rd line. I say leave him there. Same with Kostitsyn, just not consistent enough over a whole season to play on the top 2 lines.

Lock up Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, Cammalleri and Gionta and acquire a player with size to play with Cammalleri and Plekanec on the top line. Then you have:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - xx
Pacioretty - Eller - Gionta
Pouliot - Desharnais - AK
Moen - Konopka - White

Markov - Wisniewski
xx - Subban
Gill - Gorges

As much as I like Hamrlik, we need some change on the back end. We can't go into next season with the same D. Weber doesn't fit in that top 6 either given the need for more size and the organization of the pairings (but the other option is going Markov - Gorges, Wisniewski - Subban and Gill - Weber, but then we don't address the size issue). I'd re-sign Gill simply because of his leadership and PK. The way we've played this year with all of our injuries, you can't discount how much that leadership is worth.

Anyways, guys like Weber and Pyatt are young and expendable. We need to keep Wisniewski instead of Weber and Gorges coming back makes it hard to accommodate everyone.

Ideal guys for the two available positions are Dustin Brown and Robin Regehr. Those are exactly the types of players we need, but we'll need players in those molds.
100% in agreement with this reasoning and lineup. I think Spacek will still be here to start next year though, I doubt we can unload him, so he's likely going to be that 6th unfortunately. 7th to either Weber or Emelin would be my guess.

Still not sure if getting rid of Gomez is a possibility, doubt there's any GM remaining willing to take the gamble Gainey did.

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Old
03-21-2011, 05:07 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Patches-Eller-any competent POWER RW(KNUBLE) would be a smashing 1st line, imho.
Like somebody else had mentionned, if we could somehow get our hands on Laich...that would be ideal. He's a UFA, i'm just sure the Caps will do everything to get him to re-sign before July 1st. Ontop of that, Laich will be 28 at the start of next season. He'll be in his prime. Knuble is decent, but he's turning 39 in July, yikes!

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03-21-2011, 05:19 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Blame it on PK View Post
Patches-Eller-any competent POWER RW(KNUBLE) would be a smashing 1st line, imho.
In 3 to 4 years maybe... right now, it would be the weakest 1st line in the NHL.

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03-21-2011, 05:22 PM
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MoldyCakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
In 3 to 4 years maybe... right now, it would be the weakest 1st line in the NHL.
3-4? How about 2 years at the latest?
Eller is capable of rapid improvement and Pacioretty already had a deft scoring touch.

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