HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2011, 09:35 PM
  #76
TheHMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,426
vCash: 500
The ball is in GI's court and I heard that they plan on sticking a nail in it. Game over.

TheHMan is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:36 PM
  #77
wpgJetsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAgIn View Post
So essentially, Hulsizer is going to give the COG $25 million back of it own money, once the bond sale closes. Why doesn't he just put up an extra $25 million in the purchase price. Im baffled by this. By not doing so, is he trying to avoid in saying that it ain't a subsidy. Because this action seems to make that assumption.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Wasn't the 25 Million suppose to pay for season losses? That was the whole point for the deposit.

So how can it be used for the BONDS now when it was used for the losses? Does not make any sense.

wpgJetsfan is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:37 PM
  #78
CorbeauNoir
Registered User
 
CorbeauNoir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I have a degree in history... I know who Will Rogers is, I just don't understand the "old enough to remember" line.
lol, gotcha

CorbeauNoir is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:37 PM
  #79
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
This situation is absurd, why is Hulsizer negotiating via some fanboy during the intermission?

Wham City is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:38 PM
  #80
wpgJetsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingbrutis View Post
I'm @ the game. Where r u seeing empty seats? 17000 + . A lot of hawk fans, but not 14K. You guys really hate us.
I'm watching it on tv. I see empty seats in the lower bowl.

wpgJetsfan is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:39 PM
  #81
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
...people who have taken history classes? :X
He wasn't in any of my history classes, I guess it's a U S, Quebec thing.

Confucius is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:39 PM
  #82
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
final option. relocate the residents of Winnipeg to Glendale!

obsenssive* is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:41 PM
  #83
DocBrown
Registered User
 
DocBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,303
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
final option. relocate the residents of Winnipeg to Glendale!
lol, thats hilarious. Solves the housing problem, glendale gets taxes, and guaranteed sell outs.

DocBrown is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:41 PM
  #84
SuperDave21
Hockey Paradise
 
SuperDave21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Glendale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phxprods View Post
That doesn't address Goldwaters objection. it does perhaps make the bonds more attractive in that 3/4 of the principal is being guaranteed .
It satisfies their objection completely. GWI's complaint is that the "Gift Clause" is violated because the value of the parking spaces is disproportional to the monies being given. With Hulsizer's contribution of $25M, the total sum of money being given is $75M, which is less than or equal to the value of the parking spaces as evaluated by three different firms.

The judge in the CityNorth case (Turken v. Gordon) ruled...

"...that the economic activity generated by CityNorth is “undoubtedly” in the public interest."

The same goes in this case as well. The parking spaces, and the team, are in the public's interest and therefore do not violate the "Gift Clause" in Arizona's Constitution.

May I remind everyone on these forums that GWI lost the CityNorth case in which they are claiming precedent for the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes. They also lost the following appeal as well. Not only that, but their professionalism was criticized during the case...

"The CityNorth filing argues that the Institute “compounded the length and complexity of the litigation with irrelevant ‘experts’ who hadn’t even read the agreement, and displayed a reckless disregard for the enormous fiscal and business interests with which it was interfering.” [8] According to the City of Phoenix’s filing, “Not only did the Goldwater Institute proceed with this action knowing that it might be ordered to pay the city’s fees and costs, it litigated this case in a manner that increased its scope and expense far beyond that which was required to fully litigate the dispositive issues therin.” [9][10]"

This is off Wikipedia, but I confirmed it in the actual filing. I cannot attach the filing since it is too large, but anyone is free to view it here. Simply click on the PDF file labeled "Developer Petition for Attorneys' Fees" and it will download for you.

I can't stress enough the kind of reputation GWI has in the state of Arizona and in the legal community. They are seen as "ambulance chasers" and only bog down anything they disagree with politically. They are scum and the above attachment explains the reason why. CityNorth was supposed to be a luxury shopping complex until GWI stepped in. Even though they lost the case, the damage was done. The prospective firms that were to move into CityNorth bailed and now it sits practically empty...on the taxpayers hands. I drive by it everyday and it's a reminder of what GWI does to our state. I'm not against GWI because of the Coyotes; far from it actually. I'm against them because I'm a taxpayer of Glendale, AZ, and I do not want an empty arena sitting on my dime.

EDIT: The former Attorney General of Arizona, Grant Woods, just reiterated my statement on Fox Sports Arizona during the second intermission. Senator John McCain also agreed with Grant Woods and his opinion. Goldwater Institute does not have a leg to stand on.


Last edited by SuperDave21: 03-20-2011 at 09:49 PM.
SuperDave21 is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:42 PM
  #85
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
final option. relocate the residents of Winnipeg to Glendale!
haha, now that's a win for everyone.

Ernie is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:42 PM
  #86
TGOTC
Yer a wizard Oliver
 
TGOTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On the couch
Country: United States
Posts: 2,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
final option. relocate the residents of Winnipeg to Glendale!
No thanks. Snowbirds can't drive for **** over here.

::

and they smell funny.

TGOTC is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:43 PM
  #87
87turbobuick
Registered User
 
87turbobuick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
I'm watching it on tv. I see empty seats in the lower bowl.
Like at MSG, Joe Louis and the AC in Toronto.

87turbobuick is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:43 PM
  #88
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
 
Gump Hasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 222 Tudor Terrace
Posts: 7,960
vCash: 2043
In this video John Loewen said Bettman told him that the reason MEC couldn't buy the Jets in the mid-90's was because their group didn't have a single person with a net worth of 600 million dollars to sign on the line and guarantee the future of the franchise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tdvmhBMUCI


Yet in this case the NHL are bending over backwards to try to allow a guy with a net worth estimated to be near 300 million dollars (per ESPN) to buy Phoenix.

Double standard at play?


Gump Hasek is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:44 PM
  #89
NODLR
The Dog House
 
NODLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Margaritaville
Posts: 2,410
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
Wasn't the 25 Million suppose to pay for season losses? That was the whole point for the deposit.

So how can it be used for the BONDS now when it was used for the losses? Does not make any sense.
Quote:
Under shell 1. CoG 25 million (Escrow for NHL losses 2010/2011) )Of which 10 mil is now going into a 4th shell and the CoG is putting the remaining back into the "general fund"

Under Shell 2. M.H.'s 25 million (Escrow, "good faith")

Under shell 3. Ellman/CoG 25 million - Parking garage (12.5 CoG \ 12.5 S.E.)

Keep your eyes on shell number 1

NODLR is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:48 PM
  #90
TheWestWing
Registered User
 
TheWestWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Valley of the Sun
Posts: 297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Exactly. Be prepared to brace for phase II of Goldwater's challenge. The extremely dispropotionate arena management fees. It is very obvious that at this point in time there is not a single individual or group on planet Earth willing to invest the entire purchase price of this team. The NHL looks like fools and Hulsizer a cheapo.
Monsieur Balsillie. Purchase Price +.

TheWestWing is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:48 PM
  #91
wpgJetsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnatibaH View Post
Perfect example. It's a slide of hand

wpgJetsfan is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:48 PM
  #92
DocBrown
Registered User
 
DocBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,303
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
In this video John Loewen said Bettman told him that the reason MEC couldn't buy the Jets in the mid-90's was because their group didn't have a single person with a net worth of 600 million dollars to sign on the line and guarantee the future of the franchise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tdvmhBMUCI


Yet in this case the NHL are bending over backwards to try to allow a guy with a net worth estimated to be near 300 million dollars (per ESPN) to buy Phoenix.

Double standard at play?


thats life man, we'll let a hot chic get away with more, and dump an uggo immediately. FYI: phx is the hot chic.

DocBrown is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:49 PM
  #93
NODLR
The Dog House
 
NODLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Margaritaville
Posts: 2,410
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by theguyonthecouch View Post
No thanks. Snowbirds can't drive for **** over here.

::

and they smell funny.
Funny, every time I've been down there I come across numerous accidents, all the vehicles seem to be sporting AZ plates though.

NODLR is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:53 PM
  #94
87turbobuick
Registered User
 
87turbobuick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix
Country: United States
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnatibaH View Post
Funny, every time I've been down there I come across numerous accidents, all the vehicles seem to be sporting AZ plates though.
Try Mesa at 4 when the blue hairs go grocery shopping instead of the morning or early afternoon when everybody is working.

87turbobuick is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:55 PM
  #95
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
So, you're right, we are probably done on this, although not for the reason you may have intended.
First, you argue that Coyotes Team costs cannot be claimed for the arena management fee, then you shift your argument to say that the business performance of the arena will remain as pathetic as ever, so there will be no scope for substituting Team costs in place of direct arena management costs. I expect that your legal adversaries have to stay on their toes for your redirections.

If the arena business remains as pathetic as you project, so much for the parking projections, and the extended management fees (i.e. beyond 5.5 years) are going to greatly increase the overall cost of the deal to Glendale. Conversely, if the arena meets the financial performance suggested by Glendale's parking projections, the losses on arena management will be substantially reduced and Hulsizer can still claim the full management fee by substituting Team costs. If there is no intention of substituting Team costs for arena operation costs, it begs the question as to why they are not fully excluded from the lease. Over, and out....

Whileee is online now  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:56 PM
  #96
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
Are these Arena management fees comparable to what other tenants get in othe NHL venues?

If its that easy, just say, okay MH, don't pay the Arena management fees, we will. Case closed. yet, that doesn't seem to be an option?
What the case is for other NHL deals is quite irrelevant. Whatever deals are available in other NHL markets has nothing to do with what is available in PHO.

On the rest of your post, I am afraid I cannot make heads or tails out of it.

GSC2k2* is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:56 PM
  #97
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,042
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
According to the Hawks broadcast, about 50% of the fans at the arena are in support of the Hawks.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:59 PM
  #98
NODLR
The Dog House
 
NODLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Margaritaville
Posts: 2,410
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87turbobuick View Post
Try Mesa at 4 when the blue hairs go grocery shopping instead of the morning or early afternoon when everybody is working.
Oh, I didn't realize that there were specific times for individuals to go shopping...what time slot do the non snowbird "just visiting" crowd have? Just so I know when not to go out.

NODLR is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 09:59 PM
  #99
TGOTC
Yer a wizard Oliver
 
TGOTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: On the couch
Country: United States
Posts: 2,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
According to the Hawks broadcast, about 50% of the fans at the arena are in support of the Hawks.
I wouldn't doubt it. Spring Training is going on right now. There is a TON of Cubs and White Sox fans over here in AZ. Many of them live over here because of Spring Training.

TGOTC is offline  
Old
03-20-2011, 10:00 PM
  #100
razorsedge
West Town Sports
 
razorsedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Sask, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theguyonthecouch View Post
No thanks. Snowbirds can't drive for **** over here.

::

and they smell funny.

Thats because they're all senior citizens. We get sick of their driving here, so we send them south.

razorsedge is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.