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Old
06-18-2011, 12:54 PM
  #276
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairiehockey View Post
If Huberdeau, Ladeskog, and Couturier are still available this is an entirely different discussion. My point is, if it comes down to Strome, Zibanejad, Murphy, and Hamilton, picking the forward is not a slam dunk. Drafting for need instead of BPA is the recipe for perpetually picking in the top 10.

If your argument is that Strome and Zibanejad are clearly better players than Hamilton or Murphy, then this becomes a discussion of opinion on talent rather than draft strategy.
If I was rating BPA and what range they'd go...

Hamilton - 4-9
Strome - 6-9
Murphy - 6-9
Zibanejad - 6-10

Of course some teams will be drafting for need, BPA at a position of need and others draft BPA.

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06-18-2011, 03:12 PM
  #277
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Pretty much every mock draft I've seen has us drafting Strome and I think it's the right decision.

The only other player I might take above Strome is Couturier, depending on if he's still available.

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06-18-2011, 03:21 PM
  #278
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Based on last years stats, ATL's goals against was pitiful. Solidifying the blueline should be a priority either in the draft or free agency. We had 80pts and needed 91 for a playoff berth. That's 5 wins.

Right now we have a lot of offensive Dmen but very few stay at home D. We need to decrease our goals against while getting more aggressive along the wing.

Big wingers to open up some neutral zone ice and tough stay at home Dmen would be priorities for me during this draft.

IMO, after the first 20 overall picks, there is really no BPA type of scenario. If you look at the last 10 yrs of drafts you'll see that after 18-20 it's a crap shoot. BPA is more appropriate in the NFL or MLB where tens of millions are spent to ensure every player is tested. The testing that goes on in the NHL is embarrassing (situps, pushups). Notice that there was no wonderlick, etc that is used in the NFL.

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06-18-2011, 03:47 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
Right now we have a lot of offensive Dmen but very few stay at home D. We need to decrease our goals against while getting more aggressive along the wing.

Big wingers to open up some neutral zone ice and tough stay at home Dmen would be priorities for me during this draft.
Enström, Hainsey and Stuart all good defencively.

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06-18-2011, 03:49 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
Based on last years stats, ATL's goals against was pitiful. Solidifying the blueline should be a priority either in the draft or free agency. We had 80pts and needed 91 for a playoff berth. That's 5 wins.

Right now we have a lot of offensive Dmen but very few stay at home D. We need to decrease our goals against while getting more aggressive along the wing.

Big wingers to open up some neutral zone ice and tough stay at home Dmen would be priorities for me during this draft.

IMO, after the first 20 overall picks, there is really no BPA type of scenario. If you look at the last 10 yrs of drafts you'll see that after 18-20 it's a crap shoot. BPA is more appropriate in the NFL or MLB where tens of millions are spent to ensure every player is tested. The testing that goes on in the NHL is embarrassing (situps, pushups). Notice that there was no wonderlick, etc that is used in the NFL.
We don't neccessarily need to draft a D-man at 7 though. We have depth in the system at defense and have a couple of defensive types. We could easily add someone through a trade and would fix some problems by moving Oduya. Bogosian played in a more shutdown role last year and if he can get his head on straight, you have a guy that can shutdown opposing teams top lines and still put up 35-40 points.

I agree though some big wingers would be nice. I imagine RW will be addressed in the draft at some point. We have no one after Klingberg.

EDIT: We also have Mark Stuart who was very good for us when he came over. Physical defesive d-man that is good on the PK. But I don't think he'll average a lot of minutes. More of a good 3rd pairing ok 2nd pairing type guy. Hainsey can rack up minutes and showed last year that he is very dependable in a pure defensive role. Also want to note that our D as a group, can skate very well. Enstrom and Bogosian are phenominal skaters. Buff is good for his size. Oduya is very smooth and Hainsey is an above average skater as well.

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06-18-2011, 08:11 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
Based on last years stats, ATL's goals against was pitiful. Solidifying the blueline should be a priority either in the draft or free agency. We had 80pts and needed 91 for a playoff berth. That's 5 wins.

Right now we have a lot of offensive Dmen but very few stay at home D. We need to decrease our goals against while getting more aggressive along the wing.

Big wingers to open up some neutral zone ice and tough stay at home Dmen would be priorities for me during this draft.

IMO, after the first 20 overall picks, there is really no BPA type of scenario. If you look at the last 10 yrs of drafts you'll see that after 18-20 it's a crap shoot. BPA is more appropriate in the NFL or MLB where tens of millions are spent to ensure every player is tested. The testing that goes on in the NHL is embarrassing (situps, pushups). Notice that there was no wonderlick, etc that is used in the NFL.
So many things wrong with this post I do not know where to start.

First of all, yes team defense does need to improve. However problem one is that you limit this to ALL being a matter of not enough stay at home D. A very simplistic very best. Mason struggled last season, and Pavelec was in his first season as a starter. Both will be better next year. Secondly, there was lots of young players on the blueline that will keep getting better defensively with experience like Byfuglien(1st year on NHL defense), Bogosian, Enstrom, and a full year of Stuart will help. Thirdly, how about how defense is all about a mentality and that comes from coaching. Look at the Kings, one of the worst D defensive teams in the league every year until they hired Terry Murray and became one of the best.

Now let's look at your draft comments. You say NHL should not use BPA and NFL should. In the NHL draft you are drafting players who will make an impact in 3-6 years in general. There is no way to project which players will be needed by then. Whereas in the NFL you pick for position since the player will be joining the team the next year and be expected to make an impact. So reality is the exact opposite of what you just said. You pick the BPA at every selection, not on where your needs are since by the time the player is ready your needs could have completely changed. It is VERY unlikely that any player selected at 7 will play next year, in fact I'd be surprised if they played during 12-13. Only Nugent-Hopkins, Larsson, Landeskog and maybe Couturier have a chance of NHL time next year, IMO.

And you base this somehow(your logic here makes no sense) on testing? Pure physical tests tell you next to nothing. Ask NFL people, they are using the combine less and less, it tells you nothing about how good the player is. The only way to judge players is by how they play. Look at the players at the top of the draft in Huberdeau, Larsson, Nugent-Hopkins they all tested very poorly. You know what? That does not matter, they can play the game. Scouting is done in games, not in some random test about how many times they can lift a bar.

You seem to think that they will select 7 players and have them all step into the lineup next year and help the team. It just makes no sense. The worst part is you admit you are only basing all this on the the stats that Atlanta allowed alot of goals last year.

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06-18-2011, 08:12 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
Based on last years stats, ATL's goals against was pitiful. Solidifying the blueline should be a priority either in the draft or free agency. We had 80pts and needed 91 for a playoff berth. That's 5 wins.

Right now we have a lot of offensive Dmen but very few stay at home D. We need to decrease our goals against while getting more aggressive along the wing.

Big wingers to open up some neutral zone ice and tough stay at home Dmen would be priorities for me during this draft.

IMO, after the first 20 overall picks, there is really no BPA type of scenario. If you look at the last 10 yrs of drafts you'll see that after 18-20 it's a crap shoot. BPA is more appropriate in the NFL or MLB where tens of millions are spent to ensure every player is tested. The testing that goes on in the NHL is embarrassing (situps, pushups). Notice that there was no wonderlick, etc that is used in the NFL.
what in the good name of hockey does the NFL and the draft combine - which is very adequate in testing - have to do with drafting 7th overall?

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Old
06-18-2011, 08:28 PM
  #283
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I'd also like to point out that Atlanta losses pretty much went one of two ways last year.... Either we lost 1-0 or 2-1, or we lost 10-4. There were very few losses where 3 or 4 goals were allowed.

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06-19-2011, 03:57 PM
  #284
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Pros of Duncan Siemens:
-Good skating, physical player.
-Possibly the best hitter in the draft.
-Enormous slapshot.

Cons:
-Looks like a serial killer.
-Likes Nickelback.
-Will his offensive game translate to the NHL?
-Likes Nickelback.

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06-19-2011, 05:29 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headsigh View Post


Pros of Duncan Siemens:
-Good skating, physical player.
-Possibly the best hitter in the draft.
-Enormous slapshot.

Cons:
-Looks like a serial killer.
-Likes Nickelback.
-Will his offensive game translate to the NHL?
-Likes Nickelback.
.... pass.

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06-19-2011, 05:36 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headsigh View Post


Pros of Duncan Siemens:
-Good skating, physical player.
-Possibly the best hitter in the draft.
-Enormous slapshot.

Cons:
-Looks like a serial killer.
-Likes Nickelback.
-Will his offensive game translate to the NHL?
-Likes Nickelback.
Not interested in Siemans @7. He's to much of a reach before pick #10. I'd rate Larsson, Murphy, Hamilton and Bealieau above him. IMO He's in the same range as Morrow, Oleksiak and Klefbom, depending on team need.

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06-20-2011, 08:36 AM
  #287
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Bob McKenzie will release is annual draft rankings tonight at 7:30pm et on TSN. And TSN's annual mock draft will take place tomorrow (Tuesday) at 7:30pm et.

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Old
06-20-2011, 04:48 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Sorry, but I think this is a little rediculous.
The NHL should have allowed interviews to happen.
The BoG approval is supposed to be just a "rubber stamp" so I dont get this.
Let's just hope we don't draft Sergei Bautin 2.0. I'll be able to tell how management can handle things by their drafting ability. I'm starting to lose a bit of faith, with their lack of a uniform, name and such. I can only hope Chipman does a radio press conference, that guy is about as exciting as spit drying on the sidewalk on a hot summer day.

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06-20-2011, 05:02 PM
  #289
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A re-tweet from Pierre LeBrun, and originally tweeted by Chris Johnston of the Canadian Press.




So... a Jets jersey but not 'the' Jets jersey?
.. I see no way they don't have a name by now then, one way or another.

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06-20-2011, 06:31 PM
  #290
Guerzy
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Bob McKenzie is now releasing his rankings on TSN.

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06-20-2011, 06:34 PM
  #291
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Bob McKenzie's draft rankings.

Top 30

1. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2. Adam Larsson
3. Jonathan Huberdeau
4. Gabriel Landeskog
5. Sean Couturier
6. Dougie Hamilton
7. Ryan Strome
8. Ryan Murphy
9. Mika Zibanejad
10. Jonas Brodin
11. Nathan Beaulieu
12. Mark Scheifele
13. Duncan Siemens
14. Joel Armia
15. Tyler Biggs
16. Sven Bartschi
17. Jamie Oleksiak
18. J.T. Miller
19. Mark McNeill
20. Joe Morrow
21. Oscar Klefbom
22. Brandon Saad
23. Rocco Grimaldi
24. Nicklas Jensen
25. Ty Rattie
26. Boone Jenner
27. Matt Puempel
28. Zach Phillips
29. Tomas Jurco
30. Connor Murphy

Rankings 31-40 - http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44972

Rankings 41-50 - http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44973

Rankings 51-60 - http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44974

Honourable mentions- http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44975


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06-20-2011, 07:28 PM
  #292
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Strome to Winnipeg, Grimaldi to Pittsburgh.

That is a draft I would be extremely happy with.

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06-20-2011, 09:36 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Bob McKenzie's draft rankings.

Top 30

1. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2. Adam Larsson
3. Jonathan Huberdeau
4. Gabriel Landeskog
5. Sean Couturier
6. Dougie Hamilton
7. Ryan Strome
8. Ryan Murphy
9. Mika Zibanejad

10. Jonas Brodin
11. Nathan Beaulieu
12. Mark Scheifele
13. Duncan Siemens
14. Joel Armia
15. Tyler Biggs
16. Sven Bartschi
17. Jamie Oleksiak
18. J.T. Miller
19. Mark McNeill
20. Joe Morrow
21. Oscar Klefbom
22. Brandon Saad
23. Rocco Grimaldi
24. Nicklas Jensen
25. Ty Rattie
26. Boone Jenner
27. Matt Puempel
28. Zach Phillips
29. Tomas Jurco
30. Connor Murphy
Looks like Bob and I agree on BPA 1-9. Specifically in the 6-9 area where Winnipeg will be picking.

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06-20-2011, 10:00 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Bob McKenzie's draft rankings.

5. Sean Couturier
6. Dougie Hamilton
7. Ryan Strome
8. Ryan Murphy
9. Mika Zibanejad

Honourable mentions- http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44975
Who would you pick between Ryan Strome or Mika Zibanejad?

I like Z because of his size and physicality but Strome may be a better playmaker.

If Sean Couturier dropped would you choose him instead?

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06-20-2011, 10:37 PM
  #295
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Couturier would be too hard to pass up if he were still there at #7, but I doubt he would get past Ottawa.

Apparently several scouts believe the the gap between Larsson and Hamilton is not all that big. And I think it was a Senator's scout that said if a defenseman was the BPA they would have no hesitation picking him. Surprising seeing as the HF consensus is that Ottawa takes a forward.

I am starting to think that NYI may go with Hamilton.

Should be interesting to say the least. If we come away with Strome, Zibanejad or Hamilton, I will be happy

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06-21-2011, 07:43 AM
  #296
Guerzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
Who would you pick between Ryan Strome or Mika Zibanejad?

I like Z because of his size and physicality but Strome may be a better playmaker.

If Sean Couturier dropped would you choose him instead?
I think Strome is a great talent, and I believe he could become a solid NHL'er. He's got the tools, and he seems to be a pretty good kid from reports I've read. I really don't think you can go wrong with Strome. To me, it's really a crapshoot as to who develops and rounds out as the better hockey player between Nugent-Hopkins, Landeksog, Couturier, Huberdeau, Strome, Zibanejad. All of these forwards and kids could either make it, or break it. But, I think based on reports and what we know thus far, they seem like a good crop of kids and a good crop of talent. My personal favorite out of this mentioned group is Gabriel Landeskog. I believe he's got the tools, (though he's not deemed naturally talented as Nugent-Hopkins and Huberdeau) physical presence, leadership qualities and smarts to be a real solid player at the NHL level.

As far as Zibanejad goes, I don't know too much about him, to be honest with you. But, what I do know is there are some reports, mock drafts and even Bob McKenzie saying (last night) that he could very well go in the top 5, so that says something.

It seems as though Larsson may go top 2, and based on what Bob McKenzie is saying, the Oilers are really turning the tires on which way to go, forward or defense. They could really use that reliable presence on the blueline, and Larsson could be it.

If it comes down to Winnipeg potentially choosing a defesneman, I think Dougie Hamilton is their guy if available at 7th overall. A humble, stand up kid who is very, very intelligent in school and comes from an athletic family. These are traits I believe are big time selling points to Cheveldayoff and co.

It's going to be a very interesting and exciting draft more so than less because there really is no set order. In my personal opinion, I think it's set in stone that Nugent-Hopkins, Larsson, Huberdeau and Landeskog at locks in the top 4. After that, a team could very well take anybody from Hamilton, Murphy, Couturier, Strome, Zibanejad.


Last edited by Guerzy: 06-21-2011 at 07:52 AM.
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06-21-2011, 10:09 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
I am starting to think that NYI may go with Hamilton.
Good call, I agree with this.

My guess:

Edm - RNH
Col - Lando
Flo - Hoobadoo
NJ - Larsson
NYI - Hamilton
Ott - Couturier

...or, if the Oilers trade down:

Flo - RNH
Col - Lando
Edm - Larsson
NJ - Hoobadoo
NYI - Hamilton
Ott - Couturier

...I can see a few different scenarios where Strome is the BPA at #7.

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06-21-2011, 03:36 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Good call, I agree with this.

My guess:

Edm - RNH
Col - Lando
Flo - Hoobadoo
NJ - Larsson
NYI - Hamilton
Ott - Couturier

...or, if the Oilers trade down:

Flo - RNH
Col - Lando
Edm - Larsson
NJ - Hoobadoo
NYI - Hamilton
Ott - Couturier

...I can see a few different scenarios where Strome is the BPA at #7.
There's also a lot of talk about Ottawa really liking Zibanejad and possibly taking him at 6th. They sure love their Swede's there, lol.

That could mean that Couturier and Strome are both available at our 7th

We are in a good position in the draft to pick a high quality player.

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06-21-2011, 03:44 PM
  #299
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If Couturier is available at pick 7, we take him. He's NHL ready and could contribute right away. There's only a few players available that could make the jump to the NHL this season.

Nugent-Hopkins(he needs to bulk up IMO)
Landeskog
Couturier
Larsson

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06-21-2011, 06:29 PM
  #300
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For those interested, TSN's mock draft is about to begin.

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