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PK Subban. Exceeding Expectations and Defying Stereotypes.

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03-21-2011, 09:25 AM
  #1
HabsNation514
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PK Subban. Exceeding Expectations and Defying Stereotypes.

He is a true phenom and last night was just the latest example. Most of his amazing play doesn't even show up on the stat sheet, which is true of many great players in sports and NHL defensemen in particular.

Overall, he has been one of the best storylines of the Habs since the playoffs last year, yet incredibly, has gone under the radar because of all the other compelling stories surrounding this exciting team. Although he had been hyped like crazy before his professional debut, he has surpassed most if not all of our unrealistically high expections.

Lastly, and I hate to end on a sour note, I strongly feel that some of the criticism leveled against him for his on-ice demeanor and style of play is both unwarranted and motivated by unconscious racial bias. This will only continue as he continues to turn heads around the league (literally and figuratively) and becomes more of a household name.

It is a fact that in all major sports, including those where black athletes constitute the majority, that bias and stereotypes exist. Hockey players, media, and fans are not immune from that. I don't have to spell these stigmas out for you but they have existed historically and sadly continue to exist today, albeit in more subtle forms. PK deserves praise for playing with the utmost skill and leadership, while refusing to adjust his game to appease his critics.

PK will continue to mature and thrive. He and the Habs will have the last laugh. Go PK go!


* A lot of posters have said that his antics, not his race, are driving the animus. That misses the point. If you put PK's 'antics' on a white guy, people would still be gunning for him. But the intensity of the hatred would be less. That's just my purely subjective, unsubstantiated, unscientific opinion.

* Other posters have rightly pointed out that P.K's alleged 'antics' are instead actually rather tame and are being blown out of proportion by his critics. He's a competitive guy who wants to win.


Last edited by HabsNation514: 03-21-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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03-21-2011, 09:28 AM
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Gary320
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What about Jarome Iginila?

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03-21-2011, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
What about Jarome Iginila?
I love when people use this kind of post as a means of trying to say racism no longer exists

Seriously though, what about him?


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03-21-2011, 09:36 AM
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Gary320
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I love when people use this kind of post as a means of trying to say racism no longer exists
Umm, don't put words into my mouth (posts)

When did I EVER say racism doesn't exist? I just said, what about Iginla, who pretty much is very well respected in the league and is one of the best players in the league.

I think it has more to do with his character than his skin color. I think people are just pissed off that here is this guy who talks a lot and yaps alot, first time in the league.. and he can play. People are just pissed off that he's that good and that he's a huge chirper. This kind of character that PK has is usually belonging to 3rd or 4th liners who are there to just cause trouble and draw penalties and play 4 minutes of ice time. PK plays near to 20 minutes and he will play D and create offensive.. so he's on the ice and in peoples faces FAR more than any typical 3rd or 4th line talker.

I use to think it's about race, now I just see it as players being jealous or upset that a rookie is acting like a vet. When he is supposed to be intimidated.


Last edited by Gary320: 03-21-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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03-21-2011, 09:42 AM
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beowulf
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Got to love the Habs fans, his rookie season is not even over and he is being crowned a phenom. And why the racial stuff has to be brought in is beyond me. I really hope he continues to improve and becomes an elite dman for years to come, but let's let him grow at the pace he requires and not put crazy expectations on him to early.

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03-21-2011, 09:45 AM
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I think race explains some of the criticism he's receiving as well. It's not like he's levelled any cheap shots at anyone. He's a great player who happens to be black, and that attracts a lot of attention in a league that's predominantly white.

The comparison with Iginla is only partially valid I would say. PK is full black. I know it's not politically correct to make that distinction but it happens to be relevant in people's perception of things (and is also one of the reasons Obama is president).


The other thing is that he plays for the Habs. We already receive a lot of negative attention.

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03-21-2011, 09:45 AM
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MooseOllini
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To show you how he he's hated, he got the 2nd star in the NHL yesterday with 3g 1a 4pts while Geoffrion got the 1st with 3g 0a 3pts. No respect

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03-21-2011, 09:45 AM
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or... he's just a good rookie who gets under players skin as part of his game.

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03-21-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Got to love the Habs fans, his rookie season is not even over and he is being crowned a phenom. And why the racial stuff has to be brought in is beyond me. I really hope he continues to improve and becomes an elite dman for years to come, but let's let him grow at the pace he requires and not put crazy expectations on him to early.
Because it's pretty evident that it's a factor. If you choose to keep the blinders on and believe otherwise, that's fine. Life is beautiful and everyone loves each other.

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03-21-2011, 09:48 AM
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Jack Bourdain
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To show you how he he's hated, he got the 2nd star in the NHL yesterday with 3g 1a 4pts while Geoffrion got the 1st with 3g 0a 3pts. No respect
That's actually very very funny. A defenseman with 3 goals/4 points > A forward with 3 goals/3 points.

EDIT: Btw, as much as I hate the race question (since he isn't the first and last Black player in the NHL), I just have a hard time finding a better reason for all the flack he gets from the media. There are guys who have done far worse than him and never get a spit mentioned.

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03-21-2011, 09:50 AM
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Gary320
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I think race explains some of the criticism he's receiving as well. It's not like he's levelled any cheap shots at anyone. He's a great player who happens to be black, and that attracts a lot of attention in a league that's predominantly white.

The comparison with Iginla is only partially valid I would say. PK is full black. I know it's not politically correct to make that distinction but it happens to be relevant in people's perception of things (and is also one of the reasons Obama is president).
Okay, Wayne Simmonds? He doesn't get anything close to the criticism that PK gets, and this guy is a scorer in L.A. What's the deal with him? He's "full black"

Anyway, let's not mix politics with hockey.

Just think if all PK did was play D and score goals. If PK's character was like Andrei Markov, and he still has the same talent.. than there is no criticism. But because PK plays on the edge, because PK likes to piss people off on every occasion he can.. he gets the criticism for being a rookie. That's how it is. Just think being black.. isn't the question.

Look at Crosby, in his first years.. a lot of players called him a whiner. So what, is it because Crosby is from Nova Scotia?

I think, because PK is black.. any criticism he gets, is automatically looked at as a racial thing.

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03-21-2011, 09:52 AM
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or... he's just a good rookie who gets under players skin as part of his game.
THis will be the 1st and only time I agree with you... I second this notion.

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03-21-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
or... he's just a good rookie who gets under players skin as part of his game.
That's exactly it.

Look at Mike Richards. You've played in the league for a few years, you've gone to the cup final.

Then some rookie comes here, starts calling you stuff, starts pushing you around and then he outplays you..

That's a piss off for him.. and for most people, it will be. In any league or any business. There are so many stories of people in business who've got promoted so fast because of work ethic, and people higher up who get pissed off. It's pretty much the same thing here.

It's not a knock on PK's game. It's just a show that people are lame and pissed that a rookie is out-manning them.

Like I said. The fact that he is black, is what leads people to think everything people say about him in a negative way, is because of his color.

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03-21-2011, 09:55 AM
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I don't think for the average fan or journalist race is a factor in the sense of pure old fashion racism. I doubt people love or hate him just because of the color of his skin.

However, it does make him more remarkable to the average fan and journalist. Simply put, he stands out on the ice. You never have trouble finding him on the ice and his skin color is a major reason for that. He stands out, just as Chara does due to size or some guy in a pink helmet would.

I watch every game and half the time, I cannot tell Pacioretty and Pouliot apart, due to their similar numbers. With the equipment, most players look a lot of like and as a result of race, that isn't true of Subban.

I think this is a major reason everything he does seems to be put under the microscope. It's not people saying "he's black, let's put him in his place" in some kind of Neanderthal kind of way, but rather that simply being a highly skilled rookie on a high profile team who physically stands out on the ice, every move he makes is more visible to everyone watching.

Thus all the controversies.

The above is more of a general observation. I am sure there is racism directed his way from some quarters, but I just think the above is the main reason it seems like he is on the news every time he sneezes.

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03-21-2011, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I think race explains some of the criticism he's receiving as well. It's not like he's levelled any cheap shots at anyone. He's a great player who happens to be black, and that attracts a lot of attention in a league that's predominantly white.

The comparison with Iginla is only partially valid I would say. PK is full black. I know it's not politically correct to make that distinction but it happens to be relevant in people's perception of things (and is also one of the reasons Obama is president).


The other thing is that he plays for the Habs. We already receive a lot of negative attention.
What about Kane, Byfuglien, Daley, etc.

I blame the magnification of playing in Montreal, and the Cherry effect.

If the old geezer hadn't farted out his dismissal of PK would we be having this thread?

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03-21-2011, 09:56 AM
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Iginla is like a Lady Byng candidate who fights.
If you want to bring up racism, I would compare PK to Emery.

Emery & PK are much more flamboyant players and get under opposing team's skins.
Opposing teams dislike of them is not based on racism - it is based on their perception of these players being agitators. However, I do believe the dislike is amplified by racism.

Meaning they dislike them because of their conduct but it turns to hate based on subliminal racism. How else to explain the obsession with hating on them ?

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03-21-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JimCareyPrice View Post
What about Kane, Byfuglien, Daley, etc.

I blame the magnification of playing in Montreal, and the Cherry effect.

If the old geezer hadn't farted out his dismissal of PK would we be having this thread?
Can't say I follow the news on those players, so I don't know. I definitely think this is about Cherry and his xenophobic views, coupled with the fact PK plays in Montreal. I'm not saying the racism is a general rule either, but it certainly feels like the attention this guy is receiving is a little too much, you know what I mean? That's all. You hear him talk and he's extremely well spoken, and I haven't really seen anything on the ice that warrants that much negative attention.

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03-21-2011, 10:04 AM
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I think, because PK is black.. any criticism he gets, is automatically looked at as a racial thing.
P.K. is the type of player who would get criticized irrespective of race. However, the criticism is more pronounced because he is black.

There are other black players who don't receive the same criticism because their style of play is different, but there are probably other white players with similar styles of play who don't receive the same level of criticism.

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03-21-2011, 10:05 AM
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You hear him talk and he's extremely well spoken
That sounds like something Cherry would say

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03-21-2011, 10:10 AM
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The only racism beeing shown towards Subban is against the Crest on his Chest. Get your head out of your ***** people there are many black players in the NHL. I will say though that the Jarome Iginla defence is mute since the guys half white and looks more like an indian guy then a black guy.

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03-21-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HabsNation514 View Post
That sounds like something Cherry would say
I understand what you're implying, but I wasn't implying that. I'm just in shock that he's "one of the most hated players in the league" when he's that happy go lucky and well spoken. He gives credit to his teammates, says nothing disparaging about other players, and basically looks like a really nice guy. Don't get it.

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03-21-2011, 10:13 AM
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Umm, don't put words into my mouth (posts)

When did I EVER say racism doesn't exist? I just said, what about Iginla, who pretty much is very well respected in the league and is one of the best players in the league.

I think it has more to do with his character than his skin color. I think people are just pissed off that here is this guy who talks a lot and yaps alot, first time in the league.. and he can play. People are just pissed off that he's that good and that he's a huge chirper. This kind of character that PK has is usually belonging to 3rd or 4th liners who are there to just cause trouble and draw penalties and play 4 minutes of ice time. PK plays near to 20 minutes and he will play D and create offensive.. so he's on the ice and in peoples faces FAR more than any typical 3rd or 4th line talker.

I use to think it's about race, now I just see it as players being jealous or upset that a rookie is acting like a vet. When he is supposed to be intimidated.
Not trying to put words in your mouth at all but when you make a post like that what else are you really trying to imply?

Also saying "what about Iginla". I could just as easily say "what about Ovechkin" as a similar response but in reverse. He does all the same things you just mentioned in the post above except only difference is he's white. (Obviously he's the better of the two players, but just because he's Ovy he gets carte blanche? I highly doubt that.)

Anyways if people don't want to believe that the underlying reason is race at least to some degree, they can keep on living in their world of naivety

Seriously though really not trying to put words in your mouth, I apologize if you feel I was doing that, I'm just annoyed with the fact that this is everyone's cliche response each time the race point is made.

So just because people weren't racist towards Iginla it automatically means others aren't towards PK? Plus we're operating on the assumption that people weren't racist towards Iginla, when I happen to know for a fact there are people out there who are.

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03-21-2011, 10:13 AM
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.... I strongly feel that some of the criticism leveled against him for his on-ice demeanor and skilled style of play is both unwarranted and motivated by unconscious racial bias.
I honestly think those who say the contrary are burying their heads in thesand or playing innoccent.

But, as my best friend (who is black man) told me, "you have to learn to live with that bias, but it cannot become a crutch for everything that does not go your way".

Yes there is bias. And those who have it are small minded and not worth the air they breathe, but you have to be bigger than that are you will be the STEREOTYPE that the OP commented on.

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03-21-2011, 10:13 AM
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To show you how he he's hated, he got the 2nd star in the NHL yesterday with 3g 1a 4pts while Geoffrion got the 1st with 3g 0a 3pts. No respect
I know you're joking, but to be fair, Geoffrion scored two goals in the third period to complete the Predators' comeback before they won in OT.

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03-21-2011, 10:14 AM
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so many young talented D-men in the league, it's hard to pin where he sits ... one thing for sure, he's got the swagger of a superstar.

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