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Kovalev and Neal numbers discussion

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:07 AM
  #76
Illinest
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Square peg - round hole.

Kovalev anyways. We need less players like him - not more.

Neal is looking great on the other hand. His goal production does not accurately reflect his performance.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:21 AM
  #77
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They're new, + they've been playing with 2.5 line centers, not 1st line centers.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:22 AM
  #78
Hail Stannis
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I don't think it's really fair to say Neal hasn't been good. He's been by far one of our most noticeable forwards every night. The puck just isn't going in for him, it will eventually. Besides, I'm more looking forward to what he does with Sid than what's happening with him now.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:41 AM
  #79
gafel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Hossa only played 4 regular season games with Crosby.
Neal has played 0 regular season games with Crosby.
Thanks for proving my point.

Neal, 1 goal 3 assists, 4 points. In 12 games, Neal has 6 less points than Hossa (10) did.
Meanwhile, Hossa got 10 points playing by playing one-third of his games with Crosby.

Neal was playing with a center who just made the team from the AHL (a 3rd line center all season.)
Then he was playing with the WB/S's top-line center.

Do the math, bro.


Last edited by gafel: 03-23-2011 at 03:49 AM.
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Old
03-23-2011, 03:53 AM
  #80
gafel
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Originally Posted by JimLahey89 View Post
I don't think it's really fair to say Neal hasn't been good. He's been by far one of our most noticeable forwards every night. The puck just isn't going in for him, it will eventually. Besides, I'm more looking forward to what he does with Sid than what's happening with him now.
But... but.. but... Hossa was such a blockbuster! He tore it up! He is a proven winger who can create his own offense and only put up 10 points in 12 games while only playing 4 games with Crosby!
Don't you understand that James Neal sucks?! He is a young winger who struggles to create his own offense! He went from playing with Brad Richards to being centered by Mark Letestu and Dustin Jeffrey!
Don't you realize that Jeffrey and Letestu are so effing good?! They are obviously first or second line centers on ANY other team!
We just have so much depth that both of them can eclipse Staal!
NHL experience means nothing!
Duh.

But seriously, I agree. You can't judge the dude's production until he plays a decent amount of time with Crosby or Malkin.
I was just jobbing all the morons around here that are hating on him for not producing while he's centered by AHL'ers.

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Old
03-23-2011, 11:14 AM
  #81
Mordax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gafel View Post
But... but.. but... Hossa was such a blockbuster! He tore it up! He is a proven winger who can create his own offense and only put up 10 points in 12 games while only playing 4 games with Crosby!
Don't you understand that James Neal sucks?! He is a young winger who struggles to create his own offense! He went from playing with Brad Richards to being centered by Mark Letestu and Dustin Jeffrey!
Don't you realize that Jeffrey and Letestu are so effing good?! They are obviously first or second line centers on ANY other team!
We just have so much depth that both of them can eclipse Staal!
NHL experience means nothing!
Duh.

But seriously, I agree. You can't judge the dude's production until he plays a decent amount of time with Crosby or Malkin.
I was just jobbing all the morons around here that are hating on him for not producing while he's centered by AHL'ers.
jobber

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Old
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
  #82
Florentino Ariza
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Without a doubt, the system gets the most out of a team filled with grinders.

However, there is no basis for the claim made by the OP that it doesn't suit skilled players, unless you ignore all of the facts and variables surrounding Malkin's situation. These include: the way he played during the Cup run, his wingers, his injuries and his general poor play this year, which you can't attribute to a system. The only other finesse player on the team is Crosby, and he is doing just fine.

Neal's struggles have absolutely nothing to do with the system. He's a streaky player, and that's that. He will be, maybe his entire career.

It's laughable to suggest that Kovalev isn't producing due to anything except the fact that he's a 38 year old who doesn't put up many points anymore. That's just the way he is - but he'sm good for a few nice plays once Crosbitties comes back.

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Old
03-23-2011, 11:46 AM
  #83
JTG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gafel View Post
Neal has played 0 regular season games with Crosby.
Thanks for proving my point.

Neal, 1 goal 3 assists, 4 points. In 12 games, Neal has 6 less points than Hossa (10) did.
Meanwhile, Hossa got 10 points playing by playing one-third of his games with Crosby.

Neal was playing with a center who just made the team from the AHL (a 3rd line center all season.)
Then he was playing with the WB/S's top-line center.

Do the math, bro.
Haha. We got ourselves another one boys.


Neal not scoring has absolutely zero to do with who he is playing with. He's getting shots, and quality ones at that. He's just not scoring.

You bringing up Hossa makes as much sense as someone else bringing up Poni. And Hossa only got 3 of his 10 points playing with Crosby...bro


Last edited by JTG: 03-23-2011 at 12:01 PM.
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Old
03-23-2011, 12:08 PM
  #84
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Like most people have already said Neal needs to play off someone that will get him pucks in scoring positions. To his credit he's been very active, physical and better with the puck than I ever gave him credit for. Like we've seen at times with Malkin I think he's doing a little to much by himself right now. I would really like to see him play with Staal and TK, even though they're playing great with Kunitz, because I think that they can do a lot of the dirty work for Neal while he gets into scoing positions. I think that we can all see that once he gets to play with Sid or Malkin he'll be absolutely beastly.

Kovalev hasn't been bad IMO. He's just not putting up points. He is coming back deep to defend and is still really strong on the puck. I think that Kovy needs to get back to being the player that is up a little high in the defensive zone and is the player that gains the offensive blue line. I would also like to see him play a little more selfish. Like when he gets pucks on the half wall, he should be trying to get to the middle of the ice to get shots off instead of just throwing it back into the corner. Maybe putting him with Kunitz and Jeffrey, guys that go to the net, will have him shoot more and get pucks on or around the net.

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Old
03-23-2011, 01:28 PM
  #85
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kovalevs passing has been amazing, i dont know how people havent been puttin the puck in the net, kovy should prob have about 5 assists so far

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Old
03-23-2011, 01:28 PM
  #86
JTG
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Kovalev, just like Staal was, is probably playing in a position that's a little too big for him at this stage. He is more suited to be a 3rd wheel on a line where all he has to do is get opened for shots.

He's not a guy who can carry a load anymore.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:59 PM
  #87
Coach John McGuirk
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I just can't take a post seriously when a poster uses words like bro and jobbing. Add to that the overall condescending nature of the entire post and it's not even worth reading.

This isn't the Pensblog. Please stop acting like a 13 year old.

(And I agree with you)

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:20 PM
  #88
JTG
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And Jordan Staal, Mark Letestu, and Dustin Jeffrey are CLEARLY AHL'ers. They seem to be producing just fine...

Neal is snake bitten. It has zero to do with linemates, and everything to do with terrible luck.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:36 PM
  #89
Florentino Ariza
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It doesn't have anything to do with luck either. He's streaky. Look at this stats over his entire career.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:45 PM
  #90
BlindWillyMcHurt
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Yeah... I don't really see it being unlucky, either. It's a combination of him being a streaky player to begin with, playing on a new team and just not having much (offensively) to work with, around him. He's certainly making some things happen, sure... but so was Malkin earlier this season, with little result. And nobody ever made a peep about him being "snakebit."

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:59 PM
  #91
regard
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Chances are if a poster acts like a 13 year old.....he is a 13 year old.


Neal is streaky, my Fantasy Hockey stats will show that. lol
Hes still a great winger for our team, perfect for our system, and on an awesome contract.
I would be willing to bet that playing in our system and with Crosby or Malkin, will make him seem less streaky.


Besides everybody's "streaky" these days. If a guy scores 25 goals then theres at least 57 games where he doesnt score and people are going to be complaining that hes not doing anything.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:02 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regard View Post
Chances are if a poster acts like a 13 year old.....he is a 13 year old.


Neal is streaky, my Fantasy Hockey stats will show that. lol
Hes still a great winger for our team, perfect for our system, and on an awesome contract.
I would be willing to bet that playing in our system and with Crosby or Malkin, will make him seem less streaky.


Besides everybody's "streaky" these days. If a guy scores 25 goals then theres at least 57 games where he doesnt score and people are going to be complaining that hes not doing anything.
He's 23 too. Usually players that old are streaky, especially power forwards.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:15 PM
  #93
Coach John McGuirk
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Want a valid point that will put things into perspective for people arguing that Neal sucks?

He's a year and a half older than Tangradi.

He's still extremely young, and is a complimentary player. Be patient.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:23 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Illinest View Post
Square peg - round hole.

Kovalev anyways. We need less players like him - not more.
No, if anything we need one guy like him long term. Just someone that's a little more responsible and not old as hell. This team is looking really, really good for next year but I don't want every single winger to have play the same and have the same limitations. At least Neal breaks the mold since he can shoot and skate. It's not a sin to have one guy with a little risk/reward.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:38 PM
  #95
JTG
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Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
It doesn't have anything to do with luck either. He's streaky. Look at this stats over his entire career.
Maybe luck isn't the right word, but it does have to do with getting the bounces. The guy is getting shots, and he's not missing by much. Look at that disgusting play he made the other night behind the net.

It will come, and I have a feeling when it comes, the flood gates will open.

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Old
03-23-2011, 04:44 PM
  #96
Florentino Ariza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Maybe luck isn't the right word, but it does have to do with getting the bounces. The guy is getting shots, and he's not missing by much. Look at that disgusting play he made the other night behind the net.

It will come, and I have a feeling when it comes, the flood gates will open.
Yea, it's just two ways of talking about the same thing. But I think that even when he's playing with Malkin/Crosby, he'll be on/off.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:01 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
Yea, it's just two ways of talking about the same thing. But I think that even when he's playing with Malkin/Crosby, he'll be on/off.
No doubt.

Who he plays with doesn't particularly matter. That's the point I'm trying to make.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:17 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
No doubt.

Who he plays with doesn't particularly matter. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I understand what you are trying to say, I think, but the way you said it makes it seem like it matters little who Neal plays with and he will produce similarly regardless which I think is very incorrect. Neal will definitely produce more with Crosby or Malkin then he is now. A lot of it has to do with linemates now. Now sure how you can argue it isn't at least a factor in his lack of production.

edit: bad run on sentence and poor sentence structure aside, I stand behind the point of my post haha

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:24 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Kovalev, just like Staal was, is probably playing in a position that's a little too big for him at this stage. He is more suited to be a 3rd wheel on a line where all he has to do is get opened for shots.

He's not a guy who can carry a load anymore.
I agree. I think people are being too hard on Kovy. The fact is he's made some plays and he's been a plus player for us. He's not hurting us defensively and I know the points will come with our big guns in.

For a 7th round pick I'll take what Kovy has brought to us any day.


Plus he's always been a beast in the playoffs. I'm certain Kovy is going to make some people eat crow around here when he inevitably has a big game or two in the playoffs.

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Old
03-23-2011, 05:30 PM
  #100
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The Kovalev hate is due only to the hater's unrealistic expectations of him as JTG said. People were living in the past when they got him and then when he helped the team to that win versus Toronto they let themselves continue to believe this was some return to form.

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