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10/11 - Marlies/Prospects Thread - Gardiner Express is here.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:26 PM
  #51
Michael Gary Scott
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Originally Posted by KesselPhaneufTML View Post
TBH, i don't see Colborne developing into a #1 centre. At best he could be a lesser Ryan Getlzlaf and at worst I see him being a third line guy, but to be that he would need to learn how to use his huge size to be more physical. Kadri is looking more and more likely like he's going to be a permanent winger, hopefully top line.

I still think we need a top line centre, preferably a playmaker.
Im just thinking best case scenario. Alot of people see him as a second line center, but has the potential to be a #1

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03-23-2011, 02:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pitch154 View Post
Im just thinking best case scenario. Alot of people see him as a second line center, but has the potential to be a #1
Oh i see. I think best case scenario he could be number one centre but I think to be safe it would be smarter to go out and get a more likely potential number one centre from the draft or trade. I would trade our two first rounders + Joe Colborne to move up to 7th-9th in the draft to hopefully get someone like Ryan Strome. I love that kid

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03-23-2011, 02:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by javier View Post
Dude, unless you have watch the Marlies all season long, then I dont know how you can comment on the job Dallas Eakins have done down there. People here on HF are amazing, they pawn off their opinions on stuff with the most minimal information and do it as though their experts. Here's an idea, why dont I give a reveiw on a movie that I didnt see, but I saw the trailer and couple of commercials on TV.
I have watched the Marlies all season long.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by KesselPhaneufTML View Post
Oh i see. I think best case scenario he could be number one centre but I think to be safe it would be smarter to go out and get a more likely potential number one centre from the draft or trade. I would trade our two first rounders + Joe Colborne to move up to 7th-9th in the draft to hopefully get someone like Ryan Strome. I love that kid
Thank god you're not managment then.

This club would be in a world of hurt after that.

There is no need for Toronto to trade two first rounders, let alone two first rounders and a former top 20 pick for a centre.

This teams blueline has some serious depth and IMO, I dont think Strome is worth both first rounders when you can add more upfront where this team is sorely lacking. Kadri and Colborne make Strome a little redundant. IMO, you use both picks and really pack your prospect pool. And if you are going to deal those picks/prospects, you do it for someone established, not someone thats a question mark.

Defensive depth and goaltending depth is this teams strong suit, and to throw 2 firsts and a potential Top 6 centre for just one piece really depletes this teams potential.

This team may be able to grab two of Jenner/McNeil/Jensen/Peumpel/Scheifele/Jurco/Rakell ontop of having Colborne and Kadri. That would look much nicer than Kadri and Strome.

Two of those players are going to fall to our respective picks, and that could seriously stock our prospect cupboards up front.

Burke has fast tracked this rebuild yet again by dealing Beauch and Versteeg for the pieces he's aquired and to throw it all away for a someone like Strome really doesnt suit this teams needs now or in the future.


Last edited by ChuckWoods: 03-23-2011 at 03:10 PM.
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Old
03-23-2011, 02:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Thank god you're not managment then.

This club would be in a world of hurt after that.

There is no need for Toronto to trade two first rounders, let alone two first rounders and a former top 20 pick for a defender.

This teams blueline has some serious depth and IMO, I dont think Strome is worth both first rounders when we still have the likes of Blacker and Gardiner being groomed in their respective leagues.

Defensive depth and goaltending depth is this teams strong suit, and to throw 2 firsts and a potential Top 6 centre for more defensive depth really depletes this teams potential.
And thank god you're not our head scout. Hes a centre and a hell of one at that

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03-23-2011, 02:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KesselPhaneufTML View Post
I can give you more than one good reason. Many role players on the team have been called up including Boyce, Crabb, Rosehill and Brent (though he's been up for awhile now) have been called up. Not to mention the best offensive D-man, Lashoff and defensive D-man, Aulie have been called up. And worst of all, the top skilled player on the Marlies, Kadri has been called up twice this season and the number one goalie Reimer has been called up.
i'm not sure that's much of an excuse. that's simply life in the ahl.

did the marlies lose more players to injuries and call-ups than most other ahl teams did?

its tough to get a read on what's going on with the marlies because they play in toronto. they don't have any fans or media that actually follow the team. it'd be great to be able to read some reports or reviews about what's going on with the team.

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Old
03-23-2011, 02:55 PM
  #57
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What do you think the plan should be for Joe Colborne next year?

Personally, I think he should start with the Marlies and barring any injuries on the big club, be called up at the 41 game point. Give him half a season of the minors to gain confidence, and half a season with the big boys to see where he is in the development cycle.

Also, side question, with Joe Colborne and Nazem Kadri both having the potential to be number 1 centers in the future, do we necessarily need to get a #1 center ala Brad Richards this summer? Especially knowing that he'll be wanting a long term contract? I think a rental 1st line center would be in our best interests for a year or two until Kadri and Colborne develop. Thoughts?
I think it all depends on what Burke does during the offseason, and what happens come camp in September. If Burke doesn't bring in anyone to center the top line, then I can see Colborne being brought in to be the third line center. I have a hard time imagining Burke not either picking someone up in free agency, or making a trade to fill the top line center role.

Forward lineup if a top line center is acquired:

Lupul - ????????- Kessel
Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur
______ - Bozak - Armstrong
Rosehill - Brent - Brown

Forward lineup if no center is acquired:

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabo - MacArthur
______ - ______ - Armstrong
Rosehill - Brent - Brown

On the top example there is really only one roster spot available, the bottom, two. I think there are a couple of guys that could challenge for the available spots next year. Frattin, Caputi, Kadri, and Colborne are all guys who realistically could have a shot. I have a hard time imagining Kadri not being on the team next year one way or another.

If Burke doesn't acquire any forwards over the offseason, I could see a third line of:

Kadri - Colborne - Armstrong

Which wouldn't be too bad of an option, though going into next season with Bozak, Grabovski, and Colborne as the top 3 centers might not be the best idea for a team looking to make the playoffs. Obviously at this point all this speculation is nearly pointless. Who knows what kind of moves Burke is going to make during the offseason.

If there isn't room for Colborne on the roster immediately out of camp, then I think he will be one of the first call ups in case of injury. I don't think it would be a bad idea for Colborne to spend another season down in the AHL. Also, I don't think Colborne has top line center potential. I think he could potentially be a great second line guy, but from what I have seen, albeit limited, I just haven't seen anything that gives me the impression he could center a top line in the NHL.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Thank god you're not managment then.

This club would be in a world of hurt after that.

There is no need for Toronto to trade two first rounders, let alone two first rounders and a former top 20 pick for a centre.

This teams blueline has some serious depth and IMO, I dont think Strome is worth both first rounders.

Defensive depth and goaltending depth is this teams strong suit, and to throw 2 firsts and a potential Top 6 centre for just one piece really depletes this teams potential.

This team may be able to grab two of Jenner/McNeil/Jensen/Peumpel/Scheifele/Jurco/Rakell.

Two of those players are going to fall to our respective picks, and that could seriously stock our prospect cupboards up front.

Burke has fast tracked this rebuild yet again by dealing Beauch and Versteeg for the pieces he's aquired and to throw it all away for a someone like Strome really doesnt suit this teams needs now or in the future.
you might be confused? Strome is an offensive-minded Centre and matched Seguin and Hall's OHL totals from last season.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
you might be confused? Strome is an offensive-minded Centre and matched Seguin and Hall's OHL totals from last season.
Corrected immediatly after I re-read my post. Everyones just too quick on the trigger here.

I was thinking Murphy and talking Murphy just a second ago with a co-worker and have been on a rant ever since. Im not a fan of at all.

Strome is a nice piece, but not at the cost of two first and Colborne.

If I deal that package its for someone established.


Both firsts, isnt going to get you Strome tho.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Corrected immediatly after I re-read my post. Everyones just too quick on the trigger here.

I was thinking Murphy and talking Murphy just a second ago with a co-worker and have been on a rant ever since. Im not a fan of at all.

Strome is a nice piece, but not at the cost of two first and Colborne.

If I deal that package its for someone established.


Both firsts, isnt going to get you Strome tho.
I figured you were thinking Murphy. But I still think Colborne + two bottom picks are worth Strome. He reminds me alot of Marc Savard, before his injurys. A great playmaking centre with a really good shot to top it off.

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:27 PM
  #61
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But I hesitate to give the credit for the performances of 27 year old Crabb, and 26 year old Brents, Boyces, and Rosehills to their 20-30 games played under Eakins. and by "hesitate" I actually mean "don't". Boyce had a well-earned callup 2 years ago cut short by injury, well before he played for Eakins. Burke went out and grabbed the other three with an obvious eye on them being able to play on the bottom lines for the leafs, and their minimal time on the marlies under eakins can't be the reason why they're up here now.
As has been said, the callup of these players isn't a credit to his skills as a developer, but speak to the lack of a consistent veteran presence on the Marlies this season.

Quote:
Aulie, Reimer, and Kadri are all top prospects, and all looked good long before Eakins got a hold of them.

Meanwhile, guys like hanson, caputi, mueller, holzer, d'amigo have shown no progress under him.
I don't think you can crap on Eakins for the lack of development in a player like Caputi, while not giving him any credit for Aulie or Reimer (though goalies are a different breed of development, so I'll leave that one). It's pretty clear to me that Caputi's struggles this year are the result of injury, while Aulie has come back strongly from a separated shoulder last season. Seems like a wash to me.

Hanson may have stagnated offensively, though I never thought he had much high-end potential anyways. He's had some injury issues too.

Mueller and Holzer are in their first years with the Marlies, so Eakins ultimately may not have had much to work with there in the first place.

I think it's pretty well accepted that D'Amigo was rushed into the AHL by management, though it's difficult to get a read on his development comparing him across the AHL, OHL, and NCAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie
did the marlies lose more players to injuries and call-ups than most other ahl teams did?
By my rough estimation (not including callups and trying to accommodate for healthy scratches), the Marlies have lost 300 man games due to injury so far this year.

Using this as a basis, the Marlies are on pace to finish about 2nd among NHL teams in man games lost to injury for 2010.

The AHL may be a different animal, but as a rough comparison it shows you how decimated the Marlies have been, no?

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KesselPhaneufTML View Post
I figured you were thinking Murphy. But I still think Colborne + two bottom picks are worth Strome. He reminds me alot of Marc Savard, before his injurys. A great playmaking centre with a really good shot to top it off.
He'd be an interesting piece to slide in beside Kessel thats for sure. You put a LW Power Forward beside them, or someone like Kulimen and thats a fantastic line (potentially).

But this teams long term success in todays NHL really depends on prospect depth, which ultimately leads to young affordable talent that can be placed on the roster on a rotating basis for years to come.

Burke has finally built a foundation of depth in the prospect pool starting from the back end out, and his focus should now be on forward depth in the prospect pool.

If you can add a Jenner and Jensen (for example) and add it to the likes of:

Centre: Kadri, Colborne, (Jenner)
Wings: McKegg, Caputi, Ross, (Jensen), D'Amigo, Frattin, Nicholls

Its actually a lot easier to swallow, and it gives you a lot more flexability than a prospect pool of:

Centre: Kadri, Strome
Wings: McKegg, Caputi, Ross, D'Amigo, Frattin

Imo, thats a pretty week crop of prospects up front....just to name a few. And Burke has worked hard to even bring it to this point.

If Strome was a sure thing, then of course (who wouldnt take it). But thats a huge gamble to take for someone so unestablished at this point. Its almost as if we're rewinding our strategy to the pre-lockout era where youth and picks didnt matter because we could buy our roster. Look where it got us.

I understand its a little different because you're trying to upgrade for a more "dynamic" talent. But that really thins out your prospect pool and greatly reduces the chances someone panning out on your prospect pool to be a good NHL player.

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03-23-2011, 03:47 PM
  #63
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Anyone else think Eakins should be fired?

Even with elite goaltending and a very deep roster, he's managed to coach them out of the playoffs.

Literally every single player on the team has suffered a significant drop in production this year.
Now you stop it, we don't like Facts like that here, fairy tailes are welcome though.

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03-23-2011, 03:48 PM
  #64
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He'd be an interesting piece to slide in beside Kessel thats for sure. You put a LW Power Forward beside them, or someone like Kulimen and thats a fantastic line (potentially).

But this teams long term success in todays NHL really depends on prospect depth, which ultimately leads to young affordable talent that can be placed on the roster on a rotating basis for years to come.

Burke has finally built a foundation of depth in the prospect pool starting from the back end out, and his focus should now be on forward depth in the prospect pool.

If you can add a Jenner and Jensen (for example) and add it to the likes of:

Centre: Kadri, Colborne, (Jenner)
Wings: McKegg, Caputi, Ross, (Jensen), D'Amigo, Frattin, Nicholls

Its actually a lot easier to swallow, and it gives you a lot more flexability than a prospect pool of:

Centre: Kadri, Strome
Wings: McKegg, Caputi, Ross, D'Amigo, Frattin

Imo, thats a pretty week crop of prospects up front....just to name a few. And Burke has worked hard to even bring it to this point.

If Strome was a sure thing, then of course (who wouldnt take it). But thats a huge gamble to take for someone so unestablished at this point. Its almost as if we're rewinding our strategy to the pre-lockout era where youth and picks didnt matter because we could buy our roster. Look where it got us.

I understand its a little different because you're trying to upgrade for a more "dynamic" talent. But that really thins out your prospect pool and greatly reduces the chances someone panning out on your prospect pool to be a good NHL player.
you've got a good point. I guess its whether you look at it as quantity or quality. Although after thinking about it more i'd be happy if we just kept colborne and our two picks. I think that since we have two low picks we should use one of them to take the risk on Tomas Jurco. He's got amazing skill, but he could turn out like Schremp.

I also wanted to add that right now the International Scouting Report has Jensen ranked as 11th, so I don't see us ending up with him, but maybe Matt Puempel or one of those European players (Rask, Nermark)

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Old
03-23-2011, 03:50 PM
  #65
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Aulie, Reimer, and Kadri are all top prospects, and all looked good long before Eakins got a hold of them.

I guess if guys like Lashoff, Hodgman, Scott turns into a useful players, I'll give Eakins some credit for that.

Meanwhile, guys like hanson, caputi, mueller, holzer, d'amigo have shown no progress under him.

I can't give him much credit for any special player development, but I can criticize him for running a very ugly team down there in the AHL, and runnning them right out of the playoffs.
I wouldn't say Aulie was a 'top prospect' nor was Reimer. I think many agreed Aulie was an intriguing player, but never considered a top prospect. He came in with his warts. Reimer was never considered a top prospect prior to this season. Whether you considered him one or not is a different story - in such a case it's likely goaltending coaches that aided him. Kadri, is a top prospect. You can argue he's aided in his development by putting him in key situations with the Marlies and having him focus on his defensive faults.

Lashoff has already proven to be a useful player for the Maple Leafs. He's playing on the Maple Leafs and contributing in wins. He's also one of the more productive Marlie defenders. The big issue with Lashoff was his non-existent defensive game - I haven't seen that yet at the NHL level.

Hanson has shown progress under him. He came in last year and turned into a top player for the team - still is today when he's healthy IMO. It depends on what your expectations of him as a player are.

You can't judge Mueller's progress under Eakins unless you watched him all year in the DEL to compare. Maybe Mueller just isn't a player? Sure he scored well in the DEL, but maybe he just doesn't have what it takes to play in NA? (Not saying this is the case, just for arguments sake).

In Holzer's case, I think he's shown strong development as a Marlie. I certainly don't see how he hasn't shown 'any' progress. He's been a consistent defensive defender all year for the squad to the point here he's likely on the radar for an NHL call-up.

Why do Scott and Hodgman have to be useful players for that to be a credit to Eakins? Are they useful to the Marlies? I'd say yes. If you expect them to be NHL players that's extremely unfair to Eakins - they are undrafted and one of them doesn't even have an NHL contract. They can't turn chicken scratch into chicken dinner.

Eakins isn't without his faults, but I think you're being overly critical. This also coming from someone who's watched the majority of Marlie games this year.

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03-23-2011, 03:54 PM
  #66
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Anyone else think Eakins should be fired?

Even with elite goaltending and a very deep roster, he's managed to coach them out of the playoffs.

Literally every single player on the team has suffered a significant drop in production this year.
Now you stop that, facts are not welcome around here.

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03-23-2011, 04:41 PM
  #67
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Eakins shouldn't be fired, he himself said that winning with the Marlies is 1B not 1A. 1A is to prepare the prospects so they are either:

1) Developed to play for the Leafs.
2) A good asset to move.

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03-23-2011, 04:58 PM
  #68
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Eakins shouldn't be fired, he himself said that winning with the Marlies is 1B not 1A. 1A is to prepare the prospects so they are either:

1) Developed to play for the Leafs.
2) A good asset to move.
I think he is doing an excellent job of both.

Going off point production alone (I know its not a good idea) you can really see Colborne has stepped his game up since the trade, hopefully meaning he has developed. This is just one example of the developement that has been done. Aulie and Reimer are both other examples of an excellent job, they have both satisfied any previous expectations above and beyond what I had.

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03-23-2011, 05:06 PM
  #69
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Dallas Eakins is one of the strengths of this organization. Ask his current and former players.

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03-23-2011, 05:55 PM
  #70
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Now you stop that, facts are not welcome around here.
Yeah right. Just more Leafs homers desperately reaching for excuses for their players sucking.


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03-23-2011, 05:58 PM
  #71
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Anyone know if the Marlies game is online/t.v. anywhere tonight?

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Old
03-23-2011, 06:42 PM
  #72
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Just started watching the game, Marlies are without Luca Caputi and Zigomanis (who they lost during the warm up).

The Marlies are up 3-0 so they found some offense that was lacking the last few games.

Scoring summary after 1:

Ryan Hamilton, (10) (Hanson, Foster)
Aaron Voros, (2)
Ryan Hamilton, (11) (Hanson, Gardiner)

First AHL point for Gardiner. Third AHL game for Gardiner.


Last edited by John-Eric Iannicello: 03-23-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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Old
03-23-2011, 06:54 PM
  #73
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Another note:

Former Maple Leafs prospect Tyler Ruesegger has found his way into the AHL. He's playing in the Marlies division with Abbotsford Heat. He has two assists in two games with the club.

He was playing in the ECHL this year until he signed a PTO.

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03-23-2011, 07:14 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
Just started watching the game, Marlies are without Luca Caputi and Zigomanis (who they lost during the warm up).

The Marlies are up 3-0 so they found some offense that was lacking the last few games.

Scoring summary after 1:

Ryan Hamilton, (10) (Hanson, Foster)
Aaron Voros, (2)
Ryan Hamilton, (11) (Hanson, Gardiner)

First AHL point for Gardiner. Third AHL game for Gardiner.
Tuned in a little bit ago to listen to something (other than Modest Mouse) while I write my essay.
Great to see Gardiner get his first apple
Scrivens sounds like he's on his game tonight.*

*Marlies on PK. Hope this doesn't work as a jinx.
EDIT: 5 on 3 for 1:09s now. Engels in the box.

GR scores. My bad.

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Old
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by TheDreaming View Post
Tuned in a little bit ago to listen to something (other than Modest Mouse) while I write my essay.
Great to see Gardiner get his first apple
Scrivens sounds like he's on his game tonight.*

*Marlies on PK. Hope this doesn't work as a jinx.
Cowan did an exceptional job on the PK. He owned the puck down low in the Griffins zone battling 3 Griffins.

2 man advantage now for Griffins.

Meech blasts one home to make it 3-1.

Marlies getting into penalty trouble. 3 penalties in a row now.

*Even up type call now as Meech gets a call holding Hanson.

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