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Greg Mckegg has more goals than Taylor Hall ever had in the OHL in 1 season

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Old
03-23-2011, 08:28 AM
  #51
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
no, he didn't. he did it as a 19 year old. lets try to get the facts straight so we can fully understand what we're talking about.
Yes, Caputi and Kadri should be the comparison being made since McKegg hasn't had his year as a 19 year old yet.

Caputi and Kadri are both October born kids so their draft year cannot be compared to a summer born who is draft almost a year earlier in age.

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03-23-2011, 08:53 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Darch View Post
You cannot extrapolate junior stats and say that a guy will be better than the next because of how many goals he's scored.
actually, in most cases you can do exactly that. its so funny how we spend all season following leafs' prospects at lower levels, and getting so happy and excited when they put up lots of points. but then as soon as the stats don't reflect what we'd like them to, all we hear is, "oh the stats in junior or college don't matter anyways".

lets stick to the example of tucker and ross. all we can compare right now is their respective whl careers to this date. judging from the stats, tucker was in another stratosphere. ross isn't even close to being the player tucker was at that age.

anyone here watch them both on a regular basis as 18/19 year olds in the whl? can anyone give us specifics on why brad ross projects to be a better nhler than tucker was? is there any true, real reason to believe ross will be better than tucker was?

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03-23-2011, 09:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
actually, in most cases you can do exactly that. its so funny how we spend all season following leafs' prospects at lower levels, and getting so happy and excited when they put up lots of points. but then as soon as the stats don't reflect what we'd like them to, all we hear is, "oh the stats in junior or college don't matter anyways".
So McKegg's junior stats are an important indicator that his future is much brighter than all those players who cannot score 49 goals as an 18 year old in the same league he plays in.

Can only really compare players in the same era in the same league against each other. Well, we could compare Tucker in a league where scoring leaders had 140-160 points against a player where league scoring leaders are 110-115 points, but how would that work? Does that even make sense? Would Gretz ever have 200 points in today's league?

McKegg tied for 3rd. in goals in the OHL, that's just a fact.

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03-23-2011, 09:10 AM
  #54
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If Mckegg was in this year's draft where would he go?

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03-23-2011, 09:21 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So McKegg's junior stats are an important indicator that his future is much brighter than all those players who cannot score 49 goals as an 18 year old in the same league he plays in.
yeah, i would think so. certainly better than if he had scored only 19 goals, or even 29 goals.

are we really going to try to suggest stats mean absolutely nothing? like, its pure coincidence that our big offensive hope, nazem kadri, just happened to lead his ohl team in scoring last year, and lead the whole league in ppg in the playoffs?

generally the high drafts picks are the guys who score the most at their age level. purely coincidence?

Quote:
Can only really compare players in the same era in the same league against each other. Well, we could compare Tucker in a league where scoring leaders had 140-160 points against a player where league scoring leaders are 110-115 points, but how would that work? Does that even make sense? Would Gretz ever have 200 points in today's league?
very good point. surely all leagues have changed over the last 20 years.

but where does one era end and another era begin? is it even fair to compare players in the same league, but one year apart?

it is fair to compare mckegg next year, as a 19 year old, to kadri last year at 19 in the same league?

we can go on forever and "lawyer" this to death. my point remains....i don't see any valid reason to think brad ross is going to be better than darcy tucker was. but i'm open to suggestions.

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03-23-2011, 09:28 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Caputi put up over 50 goals aswell and over 100 points, more then McKegg, how good is he doing right now?
take age into consideration, Hall is almost a full year older than McKegg... and as such got into the OHL a year earlier. Both have now played 3 OHL seasons, and in their respective 3rd seasons, McKegg had more goals. Hall also happened to have a far superior supporting cast.

Though this isn't to say that McKegg is equal to or better than Hall by any means, Hall's game was far more NHL-ready than McKegg, who's not the fastest guy out there.

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03-23-2011, 09:30 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by leafsrule123 View Post
Thats gotta be good right? lol

Greg Mckegg has 49 so far and counting...The highest Hall ever had was 45 in his first season in the CHL.

He also has more than Tyler Seguin in 1 season and in total.

Looks like he could be a top 6 for sure. Maybe top 3...Hoping!

Brad Ross also has 31 goals. More than last season.

These 2 were steals and a half.
What a silly comparison.

How did their 17yr old seasons compare?

lol

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03-23-2011, 09:31 AM
  #58
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It's awesome how some are taking the optimism of most and turning into the biggest exaggeration of the optimism.

Fan #1:"Man I'm pretty excited about McKegg, he's really dominating the OHL."

Fan #2 in reply to fan#1:"LULZ before you write his name on the Art Ross trophy, let's wait how he does at the pro level first. "

Who said anything about dominating the NHL?

Then when someone like Brad Ross is brought up, his point totals are mentioned and basically his potential is again thrown out because he isn't scoring at over a PPG.

Which is it? Are point totals useless or are they meaningful in judging a player's chances of becoming an NHLer? When is it OK to become somewhat excited or perhaps mention a prospect at the NHL level?

Heck even Kadri when he was clearly dominating the OHL, he was compared to other players in the past that put up good points but never amounted to anything at the NHL level.

Some Leaf fans can never win.

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03-23-2011, 09:34 AM
  #59
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2008 OHL Priority Draft:

ROUND 1:
1: Sudbury Wolves: John McFarland, RW/C, Jr. Canadiens
2. Erie Otters: Gregg McKegg, LW/C, Elgin-Middlesex Chief
3. Owen Sound Attack: Steven Shipley, LW/C, Elgin-Middlesex Chiefs
4. Kingston Frontenacs: Erik Gudbranson, D, Ottawa Jr 67's
5. Peterborough Petes: Ryan Spooner, LW/C, Ottawa Senators
6. Barrie Colts: Ryan O'Connor, D, Jr. Canadiens
7. Ottawa 67's: Tyler Toffoli, RW, Jr. Canadiens
8. Mississauga-St. Michael's Majors: Devante Smith-Pelly, LW/C, Jr. Canadiens
9. Plymouth Whalers: Tyler Seguin, RW/C, Toronto Young Nationals
10. Saginaw Spirit: Brandon Saad, LW, Pittsburgh Hornets Major Midget.
11. Sarnia Sting: Gregg Sutch, RW, York Simcoe Express
12. Guelph Storm: Cody McNaughton, RW, Jr. Canadiens
13. London Knights: Christian Thomas, RW, Toronto Marlboros
14. Niagara IceDogs: Freddie Hamilton, RW/C, Toronto Marlboros
15. Brampton Battalion: Sam Carrick, RW/C, Toronto Red Wings
16. Oshawa Generals: Kevin Bailie, G, Quinte Red Devils
17. Windsor Spitfires: Cam Fowler, team unavailable
18. Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds: Brock Beukeboom, D, Central Ontario Wolves
19. Belleville Bulls: Stephen Silas, D, Halton Hurricanes
20. Kitchener Rangers: Jeff Skinner, RW, Toronto Young Nationals.



Just a quick glance at that OHL Priority draft and how sought after McKegg was. He's always been viewed as a Top quality talent. To be taken that high in an OHL Priority draft, when the prospect pool was relatively deep that year...that really speaks volumes of how talented this kid really is. He had a few slow junior seasons, but the fact that he was drafted where he was in the OHL Priorty draft is something to be positive about.

The raw talent is there, some players just take more time to develop. McKegg has all the tools to be a Top 6, he always has.

And as he's getting older and more confident, that sheer raw talent is really starting to shine though. I wouldnt be shocked if he's a very good Top 6 player for us in the net few years.


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Old
03-23-2011, 09:35 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
actually, in most cases you can do exactly that. its so funny how we spend all season following leafs' prospects at lower levels, and getting so happy and excited when they put up lots of points. but then as soon as the stats don't reflect what we'd like them to, all we hear is, "oh the stats in junior or college don't matter anyways".

lets stick to the example of tucker and ross. all we can compare right now is their respective whl careers to this date. judging from the stats, tucker was in another stratosphere. ross isn't even close to being the player tucker was at that age.

anyone here watch them both on a regular basis as 18/19 year olds in the whl? can anyone give us specifics on why brad ross projects to be a better nhler than tucker was? is there any true, real reason to believe ross will be better than tucker was?
In most cases you can NOT do that because elite talent doesn't stay at the Junior level much longer then is absolutely required like Hall and Crosby.

Comparing a 19 or 20yr old player to a 17 or 18yr old draft eligible based on stats is no way to compare talent.

You need to look at the players, their age, how long they've been producing at that level, etc because there's a lot more guys who develop into players at 19 or 20 that never see an NHL rink then there is 17yr olds like Hall and Crosby who are just clearly better then everyone else in the country.

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03-23-2011, 09:38 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
It's awesome how some are taking the optimism of most and turning into the biggest exaggeration of the optimism.

Fan #1:"Man I'm pretty excited about McKegg, he's really dominating the OHL."

Fan #2 in reply to fan#1:"LULZ before you write his name on the Art Ross trophy, let's wait how he does at the pro level first. "

Who said anything about dominating the NHL?

Then when someone like Brad Ross is brought up, his point totals are mentioned and basically his potential is again thrown out because he isn't scoring at over a PPG.

Which is it? Are point totals useless or are they meaningful in judging a player's chances of becoming an NHLer? When is it OK to become somewhat excited or perhaps mention a prospect at the NHL level?

Heck even Kadri when he was clearly dominating the OHL, he was compared to other players in the past that put up good points but never amounted to anything at the NHL level.

Some Leaf fans can never win.
Great post. I have seen this as well. God forbid Leaf fans get excited about some of the prospects coming up through the system. Posting on these boards the last couple of years has led me to the conclusion that some people are just not happy unless they are complaining about something or other.

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03-23-2011, 09:44 AM
  #62
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simple question would be if the draft was redone, where would he have been picked now? ...not likely as late as he was, and not likely in the top 5, but, the fact that he would likely be in the top 20 (or perhaps top 10) bodes well for us.

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03-23-2011, 09:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
simple question would be if the draft was redone, where would he have been picked now? ...not likely as late as he was, and not likely in the top 5, but, the fact that he would likely be in the top 20 (or perhaps top 10) bodes well for us.
Its a little early for that question.

But if you're strictly looking at numbers alone and performance, he's earned his way into the 1st round. I'd say in the 20-25 range.

But the fact is some teams draft on positional need that deep into the first round, and they also draft on raw talent/size combined as well.

Those reasons are why McKegg was most likely sliding into the 2nd round...So to say he's a sure fire 1st rounder now isnt quite accurate. If the draft was replayed, we could very well see the same 1st round as it wasnt too long ago this draft was completed and the drafting teams had reason and confidence in the player they drafted. These players arnt even out of their ELC's, so its a bit of a stretch to assume.

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03-23-2011, 10:01 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
simple question would be if the draft was redone, where would he have been picked now? ...not likely as late as he was, and not likely in the top 5, but, the fact that he would likely be in the top 20 (or perhaps top 10) bodes well for us.
I think one of the main reasons he fell to the third round was because of an injury he had that really slowed down his skating. After he fully recovered his coach mentioned that he really wish the scouts could see McKegg skate now that the injury is behind him.

As for where he would be drafted in this years draft its not something I usually like to do because McKegg does have the advantage of having the extra year in jr. Having said that when you look at the age difference between McKegg and this years draft eligible players it's really not that much diference. I think I heard kypreos say on average the diference is only about 6 months.

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03-23-2011, 10:14 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
Considering the NHL will likely never allow another Tucker (in his prime anyway) I don't think your anywhere near right. Besides, he scored over 20g 5 times with the leafs, and over 50 pts 3 times, that seems better then the 20g, 40-50pt player your talking about.

But the league won't allow anyone to play like that anymore anyway. Not quite that reckless anyway.

I am excited for our prospects, but you guys gotta relax.

Tucker was an offensive force in junior. Ross is barely a PPG. He has a long way to go to be compared to Tucker, let alone be considered:

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03-23-2011, 10:24 AM
  #66
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Taylor Hall was told to focus on distributing the puck more which is why his goal total went down. I don't think we should be comparing our prospects to great prospects because it makes us Leafs fans look dillusional. When Greg McKegg scores more goals than Taylor Hall in a single NHL season, I'll eat my words...

I don't want to discredit McKegg's great season, but he's no Taylor Hall...

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03-23-2011, 10:32 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
It's awesome how some are taking the optimism of most and turning into the biggest exaggeration of the optimism.

Fan #1:"Man I'm pretty excited about McKegg, he's really dominating the OHL."

Fan #2 in reply to fan#1:"LULZ before you write his name on the Art Ross trophy, let's wait how he does at the pro level first. "

Who said anything about dominating the NHL?

Then when someone like Brad Ross is brought up, his point totals are mentioned and basically his potential is again thrown out because he isn't scoring at over a PPG.

The reason some of us are quick to shoot down expectations is that the same people who claim we have 4-5 stars in the making are the some of the same people that will freak out in CAPS LOCK when the have any semblance of a sophomore slump. The rollercoaster ride gets old.

The reason some of get aggressive in shooting down expectations is that the same people who claim we have 4-5 scoring stars in the making are some of the same sucks that will freak out in CAPS LOCK when they go through any semblance of a sophomore slump. The rollercoaster ride gets a little old.

Which is it? Are point totals useless or are they meaningful in judging a player's chances of becoming an NHLer? When is it OK to become somewhat excited or perhaps mention a prospect at the NHL level?

Heck even Kadri when he was clearly dominating the OHL, he was compared to other players in the past that put up good points but never amounted to anything at the NHL level.

Some Leaf fans can never win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionic View Post
Great post. I have seen this as well. God forbid Leaf fans get excited about some of the prospects coming up through the system. Posting on these boards the last couple of years has led me to the conclusion that some people are just not happy unless they are complaining about something or other.

With such a large fan base, you will get a decent representation of every character type.

There is nothing wrong with comparing McKeggs stats to Hall and saying "looks good!" I don't think the OP or anyone has claimed him to be better then anyone, right now. But another poster (Pi) made a bold claim that Ross is "going to be better then Tucker." It's a little far fetched to make that bold an assumption. IMO it seemed obvious that Pi was either too young to have watched him in TOR, or just didn't watch him. Nobody who knows better would've made that claim. Even comparing him to recent pest with skill like Downie, Clutterbuck, and Tootoo, he doesn't outpace any of them in their junior careers. And none of them are better then Tucker.

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03-23-2011, 10:54 AM
  #68
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NewFang up to Kadri bashing again. Kadri is a 7th overall pick who has been successful at the OHL and AHL level and is finally getting an NHL opportunity where he has looked decent in his last 3 games. Yet you still group him together with McKegg, a third rounder, and say he's no where near a blue chip prospect.
I said not a bluechip prospect yet. The jury is still out on whether Kadri and Mckegg can translate their games to the NHL in an impactful way. My point is that junior stats don't provide any certainty.

If either one of these guys turns into Dary Tucker I would be very very happy.

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03-23-2011, 10:57 AM
  #69
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taylor hall looks better then phil kessel even in his rookie season.

i can't see mckegg being that talented.

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03-23-2011, 12:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer View Post
In most cases you can NOT do that because elite talent doesn't stay at the Junior level much longer then is absolutely required like Hall and Crosby.

Comparing a 19 or 20yr old player to a 17 or 18yr old draft eligible based on stats is no way to compare talent.

You need to look at the players, their age, how long they've been producing at that level, etc because there's a lot more guys who develop into players at 19 or 20 that never see an NHL rink then there is 17yr olds like Hall and Crosby who are just clearly better then everyone else in the country.
yes, absolutely we can only compare players of the same age in junior.

12 months makes a massive difference in that age range.

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03-23-2011, 12:40 PM
  #71
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As good as McKegg is, I'll be shocked if Erie manages to get by Windsor in the playoffs. Even losing as many players as they did this off-season, Windsor is still powerful.

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03-23-2011, 12:44 PM
  #72
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As good as McKegg is, I'll be shocked if Erie manages to get by Windsor in the playoffs. Even losing as many players as they did this off-season, Windsor is still powerful.
Erie's been playing amazing the last little while, and are coming into the playoffs hot. Can't discount Windsor given they can turn it up at the right times, but I won't be 'shocked' if Erie wins given how they are playing.

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03-23-2011, 12:54 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
I said not a bluechip prospect yet. The jury is still out on whether Kadri and Mckegg can translate their games to the NHL in an impactful way. My point is that junior stats don't provide any certainty.

If either one of these guys turns into Dary Tucker I would be very very happy.
Kadri is a bluechip prospect. What else do you call a top 10-15 prospect in the league unless you only consider prospects like Hall to be bluechippers who have franchise potential?

Ross can certainly turn into a Tucker type player. I'm not sure why people are posting Tucker's WHL numbers, scoring back then was generally higher. Who posts numbers like 140 or 137 points nowadays anyways?

McKegg is not comparable to Hall and people have to stop using stats so often. Yes, McKegg has great stats but look at what Hall, elite speed, great vision, creativity... tools that will translate to NHL. McKegg doesn't have great tools, he has decent/good ones but nothing that jumps out at you. McKegg needs to work on his skating but he still has tools to become a top 6 forward but I don't see top line potential in him. Good to see him put up an impressive season though.

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03-23-2011, 12:56 PM
  #74
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Classic Stats Mistakes:

1) comparing prospects of different ages
2) looking at only goals, or only assists, instead of points
3) ignoring games played

If you do any ONE of these things, the stats comparison is pretty much useless.

if you do all THREE of them, the comparison is absolutely useless.

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03-23-2011, 01:16 PM
  #75
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I hope McKegg turns into a top 6. His numbers are impressive, but as said, you can't compare to Hall. I have no stats to back this up, but maybe Hall got less ice time because he was on such a dominant team that had incredible depth....?

I haven't seen Erie play against Windsor this year, as I pretty much sold my season tickets, and will not renew next year. He never really stood out the prior 2 seasons, but Erie was only in twice per season. I like what I saw on TV and in the papers during the prospect tournament, and seems like a good pick where he was taken.

re: Ross - Hard to say he'll be as good as Tucker. Same style for sure, but maybe stats will be more like Steve Ott. Ott scored 50 in the OHL, was a super pest, decent fighter for being small, and now is a super pest, decent fighter, and can score 10-15 goals per year in the NHL.

Look at guys who had great numbers in JR, but are average goal scorers in the NHL: Ott (50 goals), Cooke (45 goals), Carcillo (29, 30)..... Ross will likely be more like Ott, than Tucker. Hopefully not an idiot like Carcillo or Cooke.

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