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Leafs to honour Sundin next season

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03-28-2011, 11:20 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by snruB View Post
Sundin sucks
Stop trolling.

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03-28-2011, 11:39 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
I don't understand why people talk about Vaive getting honored. Is there any reason at all to retire Vaive's number besides the fact that he scored 50 two or three times in an era where that was relatively common.

If Phil Kessel scores fifty a couple times, in this era in which it's much more difficult, and the Leafs don't get anywhere in terms of winning, are people going to expect him to go to the rafters?

I mean I'm too young to have really watched Vaive, but I really don't hear anything about the guy besides the fact that he scored 50.
Spot on, thats exactally why Mats shouldn,t be honoured. What has he done in Toronto to make him such a God? Leadership? nope. making players around him better? nope. Showing up for the big games ? nope. The most positive thing that can be said about him was being a consistant point producer, but so were the guys you mentioned above. There were some players who scored far better than Sundin around the league . Bernie Nichols, Pat LaFontaine, Steve Larmer and Bernie Federko just to name a few. Nothing to get excited about there. He simply represented the best we had for that era. With his speed, size and skill set he should have been able to contribute a lot more than he did. Mats was the softest point a game player in the league.

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03-28-2011, 11:39 AM
  #178
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Sundin sucks
Wow...if Sundin sucks...I cannot say one good word about any of the current Leaf roster at all....couldn't find one of them to sharpen Sundin's skates let alone compare them. Talk about out to lunch. I hope this is sarcasm.

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03-28-2011, 11:42 AM
  #179
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Great, he is the all-time leading scorer on one of the oldest franchises in the league. He should have been honored the moment he announced his retirement.

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03-28-2011, 11:49 AM
  #180
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Spot on, thats exactally why Mats shouldn,t be honoured. What has he done in Toronto to make him such a God? Leadership? nope. making players around him better? nope.
I had to burst out laughing and quit reading after this gem. Couldn't get any better.

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03-28-2011, 11:52 AM
  #181
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Spot on, thats exactally why Mats shouldn,t be honoured. What has he done in Toronto to make him such a God? Leadership? nope. making players around him better? nope. Showing up for the big games ? nope. The most positive thing that can be said about him was being a consistant point producer, but so were the guys you mentioned above. There were some players who scored far better than Sundin around the league . Bernie Nichols, Pat LaFontaine, Steve Larmer and Bernie Federko just to name a few. Nothing to get excited about there. He simply represented the best we had for that era. With his speed, size and skill set he should have been able to contribute a lot more than he did. Mats was the softest point a game player in the league.
Ahahahahahahaha.....how can anybody take you seriously..really. Then you have the nerve to ask why you can't have a different view on Sundin....absolute garbage.

It isn't very hard to find that Mats Sundin is the 26th all time leading scorer in the HISTORY OF THE NHL.....why don't you shut up already?

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03-28-2011, 12:43 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Ahahahahahahaha.....how can anybody take you seriously..really. Then you have the nerve to ask why you can't have a different view on Sundin....absolute garbage.

It isn't very hard to find that Mats Sundin is the 26th all time leading scorer in the HISTORY OF THE NHL.....why don't you shut up already?
I believe that some of the posting rules are being broken with name calling, and personal attacks, at least that is what i was led to believe when i was reported for having a different opinion.

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03-28-2011, 12:47 PM
  #183
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I disagree with the poster who said Mats didnt show up in big games. Mats may not have always been great in the playoffs, but there were many times when we needed a goal and he gave it to us. Mats was a guy who, no matter how bad he was playing, could come down the ice and put one top shelf.

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03-28-2011, 12:49 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by shack23 View Post
I believe that some of the posting rules are being broken with name calling, and personal attacks, at least that is what i was led to believe when i was reported for having a different opinion.
Which is why I didn't specifically call you a name that I think you deserve...Why don't you try going to the Wings board and badmouthing Yzerman or Howe...how about the Habs board and badmouth Richard or Lafleur? Maybe go over to the Bruins board and tell them how over-rated Phil Esposito was or Bobby Orr? I think this board has been rather gentle with you considering how you have tried to discredit and even belittle Sundin. Why?

Check again...nobody called you any names..I just asked you to shut up already...as in "alright...we've heard your opinion and nobody cares."
You are saying that the all-time Leafs leading scorer and 26th in the history of the NHL doesn't deserve recognition or to be honored....

What do you think you deserve?

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03-28-2011, 12:49 PM
  #185
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woot
great news!!
hope its against the habs that he'll get honoured

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03-28-2011, 01:11 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by shack23 View Post
Spot on, thats exactally why Mats shouldn,t be honoured. What has he done in Toronto to make him such a God? Leadership? nope. making players around him better? nope. Showing up for the big games ? nope. The most positive thing that can be said about him was being a consistant point producer, but so were the guys you mentioned above. There were some players who scored far better than Sundin around the league . Bernie Nichols, Pat LaFontaine, Steve Larmer and Bernie Federko just to name a few. Nothing to get excited about there. He simply represented the best we had for that era. With his speed, size and skill set he should have been able to contribute a lot more than he did. Mats was the softest point a game player in the league.
Nearly everyone ever associated with Sundin has said he's a great leader.

He made Darcy Tucker and Jonas Hoglund ~30 goal scorers. Didn't make players around him better? Come on. He turned fourth liners into stars.

Showing up for big games? He's a point per game in the playoffs, he is tied for the record for overtime goals, he's 6th all time in game winning goals behind Jagr, Hull, Shanahan, Selanne and Lafleur. That's ahead of guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, Kurri, and a lot of guys who played a lot more games than Mats. If there's one thing he did, it was show up.

And how was he soft? Outside of Jagr, he might have been the strongest player I've ever seen down low. The guy knew how to use his body, and he threw some big hits, never avoided corners and always went to the net.

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03-28-2011, 02:37 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by ToddGillForever View Post
It's a hockey argument; it's ALWAYS subjective. Nobody's arguing the facts here. Sundin clocked a lot of points and was in Toronto a long time. He had some great games, had real impact on the lineup for many years.

But some people have real problems with him refusing a deal that would have accelerated a rebuild. He could have done that, then come back in the summer for a farewell year or two with a much better team on the rise. And, sorry, it's a fair opinion. Why does that entitle loyalists to throw out insults?

I don't really care either way, because I never liked Sundin during his entire tenure. I never got over the trade, because getting rid of Clark and Lefebvre destroyed the 93-94 Cup run teams for a guy who just didn't fit in with the roster back then. I still think the Leafs just needed to sign Bernie Nicholls as the number-two centre in the summer of 94 and otherwise keep the lineup intact. If he'd come in and had the same next couple of PPG seasons he had in Chicago, the Leafs might have won a Cup in 94 or 95. Losing Clark's impact up front and Lefebvre's steadying work in the back end just killed that team, which never recovered and led to Burns and Fletcher being canned in pretty short order.

Anyways, long time gone now. Give Sundin his night. Then finally wrap what was in the end a really disappointing era that began with awful hockey in the mid and late 90s, peaked for a few years, and then collapsed again. I'll never be nostalgic for the Sundin era.
EXACTLY my thoughts except never liking him during his tenure. I cringed when the trade to acquire him went down and he really didn't fit in at the time. He did, however; put up some serious points and had some good moments so I will not commit to never liking him. Again, it's done and I am glad as well that we are entering a new era with some new favs and a bright future.

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03-28-2011, 02:43 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by xxClearTheCreasexx View Post
Fantastic!

For those wanting to turn this into a "why didn't he waive his....." thing. Please go away.



Ok. I wont turn it into that. I will just say that it must be because of all the Stanley Cups he won or how he got us into the playoffs his last 5 years of his contract.


Sucky captain that was barely a PPG player. He is a liar and a smuck who said he wouldn't go for the money and he did. He only gets honored because he was here the longest. What happened to all the other great players that deserve the honor? This paragraph was not sarcasm, just realism.

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03-28-2011, 02:51 PM
  #189
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Great player, great teammate, great leader, loads of character, the type of guy you go to war with.

Honouring him was as much a given as his HOF Induction will be.

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03-28-2011, 03:11 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
[/B]

Ok. I wont turn it into that. I will just say that it must be because of all the Stanley Cups he won or how he got us into the playoffs his last 5 years of his contract.


Sucky captain that was barely a PPG player. He is a liar and a smuck who said he wouldn't go for the money and he did. He only gets honored because he was here the longest. What happened to all the other great players that deserve the honor? This paragraph was not sarcasm, just realism.
How many cups did anyone post-Armstrong lead the Leafs to?

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03-28-2011, 03:30 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by shack23 View Post
A warning from the mods, for having an opinion ? Well thank you for making me see how obtuise i have been for not understanding how great Sir Mats has been in leading this team to the promised land. For shame that i was not awair of ' The big sweeds awesome awsomness . I dont feel that people who do not agree with YOUR opinion on Mats are brain dead, we are the ones that suffer most from all the **** that has surrounded this team in the last seven years. I just want to put that era safely behind us and to keep playing the way we have been. Im sure the players know all about the controversy of Mats breakup with the Leafs. Weather we love him or hate him we are all fans, We finally have a hard woorking, semi talented team with a good looking future. Concentrate on letting these guys do what needs to be done to rebuild this abortion. I conceed that Mats was at times an incredable player and he will be honoured at some point, and deservedly so. But next years too soon, The media would drive these players insane with questions about someone they have never played with, or against . The last thing these guys need are more distractions . Three beer and counting ! Go Leafs Go !
Agreed. He was the captain of Maple lose nation. I don't want him back in the area cancering our players. He is the existing mayor of loserville. It was during the losing regime that Sundin was the captain of a team that created a resort mentality. I will be very happy to never see his lieing mug again.

No worries dude. Most of the Sundin lovers grew up in the Sundin era. It is only natural that they would have Sundin as their fav players.

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03-28-2011, 03:31 PM
  #192
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I still love my Sundin jersey.

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03-28-2011, 03:43 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Agreed. He was the captain of Maple lose nation. I don't want him back in the area cancering our players. He is the existing mayor of loserville. It was during the losing regime that Sundin was the captain of a team that created a resort mentality. I will be very happy to never see his lieing mug again.

No worries dude. Most of the Sundin lovers grew up in the Sundin era. It is only natural that they would have Sundin as their fav players.
They also know better than anyone else how the Leafs need a player like Sundin now.

The Leafs beat the better-on-paper Senators consistently because they pounded the crap out of them. To some geniuses this is a "resort mentality".

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03-28-2011, 03:43 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
How many cups did anyone post-Armstrong lead the Leafs to?
How many players port or pre armstrong were paid millions of dollars to play a game? How many of those players were signed to NMC's so they could not be traded when management wanted to upgrade?

The only Sundin love here is from fans that grew up watching him play. That is the player they followed the most. That is just a fact of the hockey enviroment. I have seen many other leaf players bleed for this team.

Sundin leads in goals correct? Well, the puck had to be passed to him for those goals right? He leads in assists too. Well, again players had to be able to score for him to get those assists. (see mogilny).

Therefore, it is simply longevity that Sundin got the points that he did. Fans who constantly say he never played with any talent are looking at this one sided. He had a ton of great players or he would not have gotten those goals and assists. Simple really. Then, as an adult, I look at how he left and came back to the highest bidder. The constant hypocritical lies about how he believed a player should only be part of a team from training camp on, and how he didnt believe in rentals, yet went as a rental. He also constantly stated how it wasnt about the money and he wanted to go to a place to win. Then he goes to vancouver, who by the way, wasnt the team they are today. Detroit was the best team and offered him a sheet. Sundin went to the highest bidder and laughed all the way to the bank.

you can believe what you want. I choose to go with the facts.

ps. I like Sundin before he did all that bs.

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03-28-2011, 03:48 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
How many players port or pre armstrong were paid millions of dollars to play a game? How many of those players were signed to NMC's so they could not be traded when management wanted to upgrade?

The only Sundin love here is from fans that grew up watching him play. That is the player they followed the most. That is just a fact of the hockey enviroment. I have seen many other leaf players bleed for this team.

Sundin leads in goals correct? Well, the puck had to be passed to him for those goals right? He leads in assists too. Well, again players had to be able to score for him to get those assists. (see mogilny).

Therefore, it is simply longevity that Sundin got the points that he did. Fans who constantly say he never played with any talent are looking at this one sided. He had a ton of great players or he would not have gotten those goals and assists. Simple really. Then, as an adult, I look at how he left and came back to the highest bidder. The constant hypocritical lies about how he believed a player should only be part of a team from training camp on, and how he didnt believe in rentals, yet went as a rental. He also constantly stated how it wasnt about the money and he wanted to go to a place to win. Then he goes to vancouver, who by the way, wasnt the team they are today. Detroit was the best team and offered him a sheet. Sundin went to the highest bidder and laughed all the way to the bank.

you can believe what you want. I choose to go with the facts.

ps. I like Sundin before he did all that bs.
Dollars are irrelevant. He was making a ton of money before the cap, so it meant nothing. Then when the cap came, he took less than market value and the NMC was just a security thing.

The fact that you're unwilling to give him credit (in fact, you give OTHER players credit for his goals and assists. How does that work?) is disgusting. You have something against the guy, cool. But bringing up irrelevant arguments is pointless.

Also, mind telling me what it is with the love for Gilmour? I don't ever remember Sundin saying he wanted to be traded. Dougie's a different story.

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03-28-2011, 03:50 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
How many players port or pre armstrong were paid millions of dollars to play a game? How many of those players were signed to NMC's so they could not be traded when management wanted to upgrade?

The only Sundin love here is from fans that grew up watching him play. That is the player they followed the most. That is just a fact of the hockey enviroment. I have seen many other leaf players bleed for this team.

Sundin leads in goals correct? Well, the puck had to be passed to him for those goals right? He leads in assists too. Well, again players had to be able to score for him to get those assists. (see mogilny).

Therefore, it is simply longevity that Sundin got the points that he did. Fans who constantly say he never played with any talent are looking at this one sided. He had a ton of great players or he would not have gotten those goals and assists. Simple really. Then, as an adult, I look at how he left and came back to the highest bidder. The constant hypocritical lies about how he believed a player should only be part of a team from training camp on, and how he didnt believe in rentals, yet went as a rental. He also constantly stated how it wasnt about the money and he wanted to go to a place to win. Then he goes to vancouver, who by the way, wasnt the team they are today. Detroit was the best team and offered him a sheet. Sundin went to the highest bidder and laughed all the way to the bank.

you can believe what you want. I choose to go with the facts.

ps. I like Sundin before he did all that bs.
You really have a poor understanding of what went on.

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03-28-2011, 03:51 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
They also know better than anyone else how the Leafs need a player like Sundin now.

The Leafs beat the better-on-paper Senators consistently because they pounded the crap out of them. To some geniuses this is a "resort mentality".
The Sens were the only team we pounded the crap out of. Name one other team that we had their number?

You cannot possibly disagree that there was a resort mentality here for the last 15 years. He was the captain, was he not?

He didnt do much against teams that had our number like the Sabres, did he? Howabout boston, calgary, LA, etc. If he was so good, how come we missed the playoffs the last 5 years of his contract? Riddle me that one....

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03-28-2011, 03:57 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
The Sens were the only team we pounded the crap out of. Name one other team that we had their number?

You cannot possibly disagree that there was a resort mentality here for the last 15 years. He was the captain, was he not?

He didnt do much against teams that had our number like the Sabres, did he? Howabout boston, calgary, LA, etc. If he was so good, how come we missed the playoffs the last 5 years of his contract? Riddle me that one....
Team game, maybe ask a grownup to explain how that works and where the Captain fits in.

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03-28-2011, 03:58 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
The Sens were the only team we pounded the crap out of. Name one other team that we had their number?

You cannot possibly disagree that there was a resort mentality here for the last 15 years. He was the captain, was he not?

He didnt do much against teams that had our number like the Sabres, did he? Howabout boston, calgary, LA, etc. If he was so good, how come we missed the playoffs the last 5 years of his contract? Riddle me that one....
It was the last three years and few centremen could make up for the lousy goaltending the Leafs had over that stretch. Also, in that stretch he outscored the second place point getter on the team by 10, 18, and 22 points respectively.

The Leafs had other team's numbers also and routinely beat the Bruins which you don't seem to remember. I imagine you are one of those guys who were 5 in 2004.

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03-28-2011, 04:02 PM
  #200
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Stop trolling.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Wow...if Sundin sucks...I cannot say one good word about any of the current Leaf roster at all....couldn't find one of them to sharpen Sundin's skates let alone compare them. Talk about out to lunch. I hope this is sarcasm.
As far as I'm concerned Sundin is a turncoat

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