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If Drury returns, he could help Rangers on draws

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Old
04-15-2011, 09:10 AM
  #376
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
Seems really disingenuous to accuse him of anything irrational when you took this much time and effort to make up excuses for Drury on this play. Viper is ignoring a few crucial stuff as well but also is making some good points. Dru failed to clear but it was certainly not as horrible as Staal's fail. If you couldn't pick up more than the two things you stated I think it's because of you're blind fanaticism towards Drury.
The only thing I'm fanatical about is objectivity, accuracy and impartiality. If these irrational complaints were being levied against another player, I'd be just as eager to defend him.

And they aren't excuses, buddy. They're facts, and I didn't have to come up with any of them. They're right there waiting for you. One just has to have the knowledge base to interpret them correctly.

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Also why can't he earn himself more ice time? He was hurt all year and when he hasn't been hurt he hasn't been good except as a defensive forward with the one glaring and great exception being the NJ game obviously. I could definitely buy the arguement we could try to give him some more ice time. Since he;'s back he's playing well and obivously with more play comes his chance to win some more FO but he's a risk right now based on the last two years. Dru's own failings have certainly contributed to getting 8 FO a game. Why leave that critical point and all the negative points about Dru out when you've considered every other good point?
Why did I leave it out? Because it ISN'T critical to the discussion. It has been discussed ad nauseam, and is not relevant to the point being discussed in there and the now.

The discussion isn't about whether or not Drury is deserving of more ice time (although I did indicate that he is, because he played well defensively). The discussion was about whether or not Drury made the most of his ice time, which he did. He won 75% of his faceoffs. The fact that he only took 8 faceoffs is not something to blame him for, as Viper would have you believe. Drury doesn't distribute icetime. The fact that he played well in his 1:35 of penalty killing time, likewise, should not be used as a negative point against him.

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04-15-2011, 11:34 AM
  #377
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I think the people that "defend" Drury (myself included) just accept him for what he is now, and dont associate his contract with performance - especially at this time of year.

The game winning goal is starting to get analyzed like the Zapruder film just because Drury was involved. Involved in a hockey play that occurs about 100 times a game and led to Staal's awful awful turnover. But if I hadnt seen the game and came to this thread, I'd be mislead into thinking Drury stunk and was even the reason we lost, which is just ********. And anyone trying to push that agenda just doesnt understand or doesnt care about what happened the rest of the game.

Mats Zuccarello and Erik Christensen, for instance, were absolutely brutal in game 1, probably the worst 2 players on the ice. These delusions of grandeur that they are going to contribute to the offense is something thats also fueling the Drury hate.

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04-15-2011, 12:16 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think the people that "defend" Drury (myself included) just accept him for what he is now, and dont associate his contract with performance - especially at this time of year.

The game winning goal is starting to get analyzed like the Zapruder film just because Drury was involved. Involved in a hockey play that occurs about 100 times a game and led to Staal's awful awful turnover. But if I hadnt seen the game and came to this thread, I'd be mislead into thinking Drury stunk and was even the reason we lost, which is just ********. And anyone trying to push that agenda just doesnt understand or doesnt care about what happened the rest of the game.

Mats Zuccarello and Erik Christensen, for instance, were absolutely brutal in game 1, probably the worst 2 players on the ice. These delusions of grandeur that they are going to contribute to the offense is something thats also fueling the Drury hate.
What is Drury now?

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04-15-2011, 01:31 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
What is Drury now?
Hes a veteran leader that can help out specifically on the defensive end, PK, and with faceoffs.

And, considering injuries and ineffectiveness elsewhere, hes certainly one of the 12 most valuable forwards on the roster. I dont know how people could argue otherwise.

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04-15-2011, 01:54 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
What is Drury now?
Sub for Callahan. There is no one better at the moment.

Hey, it's the game. For every attempt to clear there is usually attempt to keep the puck in. Some win, some lose. The key thing is not to be the last man b4 the net/G. He wasn't. Not to blame.

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04-15-2011, 02:16 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes a veteran leader that can help out specifically on the defensive end, PK, and with faceoffs.

And, considering injuries and ineffectiveness elsewhere, hes certainly one of the 12 most valuable forwards on the roster. I dont know how people could argue otherwise.
I see a guy who is washed up. He didn't attempt a shot on goal didn't compete hard enough when he had a chance to clear the zone and just seems like he doesn't care enough...kinda like Eric Christensen.

But that is my opinion...there are people who see him as an effective player and some will see that he is washed up...

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04-15-2011, 02:25 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I see a guy who is washed up. He didn't attempt a shot on goal didn't compete hard enough when he had a chance to clear the zone and just seems like he doesn't care enough...kinda like Eric Christensen.

But that is my opinion...there are people who see him as an effective player and some will see that he is washed up...
I think hes on the decline, no doubt. Completely washed up? Nope not ready to make that statement yet.

The ultimate sin in this thread is thinking that theres 12 better options at forward than Chris Drury right now, washed up or not.

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04-15-2011, 02:50 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think hes on the decline, no doubt. Completely washed up? Nope not ready to make that statement yet.

The ultimate sin in this thread is thinking that theres 12 better options at forward than Chris Drury right now, washed up or not.
I don't think there are 12 better forwards currently...he has a role but he is a shell of who he once was and I don't want him on the team next. We can pay a kid in hartford 650k for what he will provide.

He is a Ranger and when he scored in the last game of the season I was pumped and happy for him.

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04-15-2011, 03:22 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think the people that "defend" Drury (myself included) just accept him for what he is now, and dont associate his contract with performance - especially at this time of year.

The game winning goal is starting to get analyzed like the Zapruder film just because Drury was involved. Involved in a hockey play that occurs about 100 times a game and led to Staal's awful awful turnover. But if I hadnt seen the game and came to this thread, I'd be mislead into thinking Drury stunk and was even the reason we lost, which is just ********. And anyone trying to push that agenda just doesnt understand or doesnt care about what happened the rest of the game.

Mats Zuccarello and Erik Christensen, for instance, were absolutely brutal in game 1, probably the worst 2 players on the ice. These delusions of grandeur that they are going to contribute to the offense something thats also fueling the Drury hate.
What's his contract have to do with it? Aren't they all technically unpaid during the playoffs? Regardless of that, it seems there is a group that wants to blame Drury, then a group who wants to blame Staal. Staal's turnover was dreadful, if anyone ignores that they are doing their best to protect Staal and/or hate Drury.

Drury should have gotten that out, and after he didn't should not have left the defensive zone. The same applies here, if someone just ignores that, it's to protect Drury. I don't see why people have to pin a loss on an individual after every game. At the end of the day it was a team effort that came up with only one goal in about 75 minutes of play.

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04-15-2011, 03:28 PM
  #385
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One apparent thing to me--the Rangers minus Drury regular season--4 lines on any given night--not every night--any one of those lines were capable of scoring. When Drury was in the lineup--subtract one line from that equation.

Now we're in the playoffs and goals are going to be harder to come by. If Drury's going to get significant ice time I think he and whoever are his linemates need to produce something offensively. People can say all they want--yeah, he's good defensively, kills penalties and takes faceoffs but at the end of any given game--to win a team has to score goals. To deserve your ice time you have to produce. And in Drury's case--he doesn't produce very much any more and if the Rangers have a shutdown line it is really Boyle's. A player like Drury should see this as a test to prove he can still do it because of the money and because there are a lot of doubters including myself he needs to convince he deserves another chance. If there is going to be a reason to keep him on our team next year it's got to come right now in the playoffs. 0 point production is not going to do it and he's the captain--he needs to lead the team here.

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04-15-2011, 03:39 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
One apparent thing to me--the Rangers minus Drury regular season--4 lines on any given night--not every night--any one of those lines were capable of scoring. When Drury was in the lineup--subtract one line from that equation.
Im glad thats apparent to you, because I dont think it is to anyone else that watched the team all season. They had enough trouble having one line being capable of consistently scoring. All I hear about is how Christensen and Zuccarello are "capable of scoring" yet they hardly ever do.

Saying that the Rangers would roll 4 lines capable of scoring while Drury was out is just utter ********.

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04-15-2011, 04:35 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im glad thats apparent to you, because I dont think it is to anyone else that watched the team all season. They had enough trouble having one line being capable of consistently scoring. All I hear about is how Christensen and Zuccarello are "capable of scoring" yet they hardly ever do.

Saying that the Rangers would roll 4 lines capable of scoring while Drury was out is just utter ********.
To you maybe. You can prorate Christensen's numbers to close to 35 points this season which is what Drury produced last year. Arguing that Christensen is inconsistent is the same argument that could be made for Chris last year. As for this year what we saw from #23 was worse than inconsistent. BTW Christensen costs us $825 K in cap space--an affordable amount for an inconsistent performer. Is it worth your while comparing what either has brought to the team commensurate to their paychecks this season? As for MZA I can't even reason why you target a 5'6" rookie in his first NHL season for such abuse. We could prorate Zucc to a 45 point season or thereabouts.

I wonder if it's because I'm saying that Drury like others needs to lead--to step up his play for the Rangers to go any further in the playoffs? I think it's comfortable for people like you to keep lowering your expectations of him because now it's up to others to do the scoring--he'll just do the faceoffs--or your idea of all the plumbing. I'd rather not have our team develop a culture of underachievement--something we've done before--just because people see this guy or that guy as some kind of role model hero.

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04-15-2011, 04:50 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
To you maybe. You can prorate Christensen's numbers to close to 35 points this season which is what Drury produced last year. Arguing that Christensen is inconsistent is the same argument that could be made for Chris last year. As for this year what we saw from #23 was worse than inconsistent. BTW Christensen costs us $825 K in cap space--an affordable amount for an inconsistent performer. Is it worth your while comparing what either has brought to the team commensurate to their paychecks this season? As for MZA I can't even reason why you target a 5'6" rookie in his first NHL season for such abuse. We could prorate Zucc to a 45 point season or thereabouts.

I wonder if it's because I'm saying that Drury like others needs to lead--to step up his play for the Rangers to go any further in the playoffs? I think it's comfortable for people like you to keep lowering your expectations of him because now it's up to others to do the scoring--he'll just do the faceoffs--or your idea of all the plumbing. I'd rather not have our team develop a culture of underachievement--something we've done before--just because people see this guy or that guy as some kind of role model hero.
Other than the fact you obviously hate Drury, I dont get what you're trying to say here.

Drury has been injured the entire year, so I think its best to take any numbers with a grain of salt, wouldnt you agree? Then theres his role. Lets be honest here - if a healthy Drury got the same opportunities (PP, top 6 mins, etc) as a Christensen or Zuccarello, you really dont think he could produce a magical season of a "prorated 35-45 points?." And then you throw the contract in there - the telltale sign of a Drury hater. I thought we all agreed that contract figures mean **** at this time of year? The fact that you think the Drury situation promotes some sort of culture of underachievement with this team is just laughable if you've followed the type of player/personality Drury has been throughout his career. It actually doesnt even justify a response.

Im trying to keep my argument in the moment. And the fact of the matter to me is that Chris Drury can do several things better than 2 duds like Christensen and Zuccarello. Thats why I want him playing.

Save this garbage for the offseason when it really means something.

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04-15-2011, 05:07 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Other than the fact you obviously hate Drury, I dont get what you're trying to say here.

Drury has been injured the entire year, so I think its best to take any numbers with a grain of salt, wouldnt you agree? Then theres his role. Lets be honest here - if a healthy Drury got the same opportunities (PP, top 6 mins, etc) as a Christensen or Zuccarello, you really dont think he could produce a magical season of a "prorated 35-45 points?." And then you throw the contract in there - the telltale sign of a Drury hater. I thought we all agreed that contract figures mean **** at this time of year? The fact that you think the Drury situation promotes some sort of culture of underachievement with this team is just laughable if you've followed the type of player/personality Drury has been throughout his career. It actually doesnt even justify a response.

Im trying to keep my argument in the moment. And the fact of the matter to me is that Chris Drury can do several things better than 2 duds like Christensen and Zuccarello. Thats why I want him playing.

Save this garbage for the offseason when it really means something.
This. I've been in the anti-Drury camp but I don't understand how anyone who watched the game can argue for keeping EC and MZA in the line up ahead of Drury (even irregardless of intangibles like play-off experience and leadership).

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04-15-2011, 05:21 PM
  #390
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How many times have we read about people upset with gabby b/c of what he is getting paid in terms of production? Why doesn't that apply to captain joke? I'm sure most responses to that question would be something along the lines of "well, Drury has intangibles and has a great defensive game, he brings other things to the table like faceoffs and leadership, yada, yada, yada". To that response, I'd say well, even when gabby isn't scoring, since he is still our biggest offensive threat, he still garners a lot of attention by opposing teams...Gaborik always faces the opposing teams best shut down d-group. So in a way, he is still contributing when not scoring b/c in theory, that should open up space for others, right?

Drury being compared to EC is in terms of on ice performance....even though I see EC as a much bigger offensive threat, that's just my opinion. One way that they cant be compared is in terms of salary. Just like Blair Betts before him, EC can be compared to Drury in what he does on the ice. The reality is that what Dreary brings should only cost the team <1 million.....yet he is one of the highest paid players on the team and one of the most over paid in the league.

I suppose this may be another case of euro bias....only the American "proven winners' get a free pass for being overpaid while bringing practically NOTHING to the table.

This team lacks scoring......that is a given. Would that be much of an issue if Drury was replaced with a real superstar? Imagine if that cash tied up in that joke of a captain was given to say, Brad Richards. That is a player worthy of that money b/c he would actually help this team.

Do a simple cost benefit analysis of what was paid to Dreary in his time here and compare it to his on ice production.....not just this year, but his entire contract.....and tell me how he can be defended. Especially considering how much slack Jagr got for wanting 6 million while only being capable of putting up 70 points? Remember that deal? I sure as hell do. "Why would we want Jags for 6 million a year when he is only good for 70 points" lol. Yeah, those 70 points would have looked great for this team this year.....but no, when have a leader like Drury instead.

I'm sure I will hear something like it wasn't a case of Drury or Jagr.....and while that may be correct, that's not the point. Maybe back in the day, what he is getting paid wouldn't matter but today, we have a salary cap NHL. Having that much money tied up in such an in-effective player is crippling. He should be ashamed to cash his check every other week...he is a disgrace to the uniform.

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04-15-2011, 05:37 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Other than the fact you obviously hate Drury, I dont get what you're trying to say here.

Drury has been injured the entire year, so I think its best to take any numbers with a grain of salt, wouldnt you agree? Then theres his role. Lets be honest here - if a healthy Drury got the same opportunities (PP, top 6 mins, etc) as a Christensen or Zuccarello, you really dont think he could produce a magical season of a "prorated 35-45 points?." And then you throw the contract in there - the telltale sign of a Drury hater. I thought we all agreed that contract figures mean **** at this time of year? The fact that you think the Drury situation promotes some sort of culture of underachievement with this team is just laughable if you've followed the type of player/personality Drury has been throughout his career. It actually doesnt even justify a response.

Im trying to keep my argument in the moment. And the fact of the matter to me is that Chris Drury can do several things better than 2 duds like Christensen and Zuccarello. Thats why I want him playing.

Save this garbage for the offseason when it really means something.
Other than the fact that you obviously hate Christensen and Zuccarello blah, blah, blah. Drury has been hurt most of the year--not all year. He did come back and more or less played 22 games in a row with a handful of games he sat out--Torts not always happy with his performance--but a significant enough time to get back in game shape and he produced very little offense. We could make a comparison between him and Prospal--relatively the same age and with similar skating issues--yet Prospal did produce and wouldn't even you agree that he's far more likely to make a positive impact in this year's postseason? Or maybe you wouldn't. You know it strikes me that I'm far happier having someone like Sather (who I'm not a fan of) as a GM than someone like yourself or a few others here because at least when Redden goes to the minors or a Kotalik gets traded he's in some way acknowledging a mistake--something that as far as this sport goes I'm afraid you're not capable of.

Again I'm waiting to see whether Chris can step up his game. If he can do that 'now' then I could see something more in your argument--and I could see maybe some reason not to cut ties with him over the summer. This is his time to show he's worthy of getting another chance. Some of the good things I saw the other night was from rookies like Stepan, McDonagh and Sauer. I'm not looking for excuses for anyone. Gaborik has to step up as well. A team that doesn't win--doesn't win because it's not good enough and so some will have to go so some better need to replace them.

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04-16-2011, 08:46 AM
  #392
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The only thing I'm fanatical about is objectivity, accuracy and impartiality.
And they aren't excuses, buddy. .
When you start with gems like this I'm sorry but I can't even be bothered to read the rest b/c I know it;s going to be completely false, unobjective colored Sting rhetoric. You leave out anything that's negative b/c it isn't about being fair to a player it's about serving your own interest. Shame. And I'm not your buddy, guy!!! Btw they are excuses. Mingled with facts.

I already said I agree Dru had a more difficult play but he still failed. Staal's was much worse and was completely separate from Dru's play. Most people blaming Dru are blaming waaaay too much on him. Since I already said that I dunno why we need another lecture. Anyway game has been over quite awhile now. looks like we should be getting ready to watch us draft.

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04-16-2011, 09:34 AM
  #393
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Drury hasn't played poorly. He also hasn't done anything with his ice-time that would demand him getting any more. He's a PK player, and a defensive zone faceoff guy. It doesn't look like he lost the will or caring to succeed, but it is glaringly apparent he's lost the wheels that a player like him requires to succeed.

Not that this is relevant to his current game, but I remember the slash and drive to the net guy from Dru's Colorado/Calgary days. If a world class player like Gaborik turns into a big zero without the wheels going at 100%, you can imagine what Drury is going through. Some players play the style of game that is entirely dependent on that aspect.

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04-16-2011, 10:42 AM
  #394
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Drury hasn't played poorly. He also hasn't done anything with his ice-time that would demand him getting any more. He's a PK player, and a defensive zone faceoff guy. It doesn't look like he lost the will or caring to succeed, but it is glaringly apparent he's lost the wheels that a player like him requires to succeed.

Not that this is relevant to his current game, but I remember the slash and drive to the net guy from Dru's Colorado/Calgary days. If a world class player like Gaborik turns into a big zero without the wheels going at 100%, you can imagine what Drury is going through. Some players play the style of game that is entirely dependent on that aspect.
Drury came here to cash out...he has outside business ventures...this team played with more fire when he was out...he is sinking our ship!

Everyone was happy for him when he scored...what else are they are going to say.

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04-16-2011, 10:56 AM
  #395
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Christensen wasn't great in the first game, but was solid last night. Created some chances and won most of the faceoffs he took. I have no complaints about his play last night. If Gabby buries one of the numerous chances he's had in both games, we're not even talking about Eric at all. Gabby had a better game last night, but still can't get off a shot that isn't either right at Neuvirth's chest, or easily scooped up by his glove. There's nothing on his shot. Seriously wonder if there's something physically wrong there. His shot has no juice. His legs seem fine, he was hustling last night and back-checked well.

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04-16-2011, 01:10 PM
  #396
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Drury came here to cash out...he has outside business ventures...this team played with more fire when he was out...he is sinking our ship!

Everyone was happy for him when he scored...what else are they are going to say.
This I can't agree with completely either. Drury has not sunk any ships in the past two games--he just hasn't made any real positive difference. The overtime goal has played out ad nauseum--Drury made a not very good play and then Staal made an even worse one but I mean after 78 minutes of hockey someone was going to make a ***** somewhere--I mean can't say that Staal really had a bad game--it wouldn't have got into overtime without him and Girardi marking Ovechkin. And it's because the Rangers rely on them so much.

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04-16-2011, 01:19 PM
  #397
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How many times have we read about people upset with gabby b/c of what he is getting paid in terms of production? Why doesn't that apply to captain joke? I'm sure most responses to that question would be something along the lines of "well, Drury has intangibles and has a great defensive game, he brings other things to the table like faceoffs and leadership, yada, yada, yada". To that response, I'd say well, even when gabby isn't scoring, since he is still our biggest offensive threat, he still garners a lot of attention by opposing teams...Gaborik always faces the opposing teams best shut down d-group. So in a way, he is still contributing when not scoring b/c in theory, that should open up space for others, right?

Drury being compared to EC is in terms of on ice performance....even though I see EC as a much bigger offensive threat, that's just my opinion. One way that they cant be compared is in terms of salary. Just like Blair Betts before him, EC can be compared to Drury in what he does on the ice. The reality is that what Dreary brings should only cost the team <1 million.....yet he is one of the highest paid players on the team and one of the most over paid in the league.

I suppose this may be another case of euro bias....only the American "proven winners' get a free pass for being overpaid while bringing practically NOTHING to the table.

This team lacks scoring......that is a given. Would that be much of an issue if Drury was replaced with a real superstar? Imagine if that cash tied up in that joke of a captain was given to say, Brad Richards. That is a player worthy of that money b/c he would actually help this team.

Do a simple cost benefit analysis of what was paid to Dreary in his time here and compare it to his on ice production.....not just this year, but his entire contract.....and tell me how he can be defended. Especially considering how much slack Jagr got for wanting 6 million while only being capable of putting up 70 points? Remember that deal? I sure as hell do. "Why would we want Jags for 6 million a year when he is only good for 70 points" lol. Yeah, those 70 points would have looked great for this team this year.....but no, when have a leader like Drury instead.

I'm sure I will hear something like it wasn't a case of Drury or Jagr.....and while that may be correct, that's not the point. Maybe back in the day, what he is getting paid wouldn't matter but today, we have a salary cap NHL. Having that much money tied up in such an in-effective player is crippling. He should be ashamed to cash his check every other week...he is a disgrace to the uniform.
Don't get us all wrong I don't think a single person here will argue he's a positive impact on the team based on his salary. We're just discussin under the pretense of "Hey well he's here so since he's here and not going anywhere is he better option than an EC?" He def does not get a pass here for his contract. I can tell you that with certainty

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04-16-2011, 01:22 PM
  #398
Orr Nightmare
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This I can't agree with completely either. Drury has not sunk any ships in the past two games--he just hasn't made any real positive difference. The overtime goal has played out ad nauseum--Drury made a not very good play and then Staal made an even worse one but I mean after 78 minutes of hockey someone was going to make a ***** somewhere--I mean can't say that Staal really had a bad game--it wouldn't have got into overtime without him and Girardi marking Ovechkin. And it's because the Rangers rely on them so much.
Did you see Drury in the third period at all last night?

I think Torts doesn't trust his own captain.

Drury doesn't bring much to the table anymore...what can the kids possibly learn from him...

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04-16-2011, 01:43 PM
  #399
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Did you see Drury in the third period at all last night?

I think Torts doesn't trust his own captain.

Drury doesn't bring much to the table anymore...what can the kids possibly learn from him...
It's not that Torts doesn't trust him--IMO it's more that he knows that Drury is shot--that he's not going to bring any offense or make a big play when the team needs it. Again here is what I see--the Caps are running 4 lines--every single player knows what role he needs to fill. They're not just more talented on the top lines but they're outgrinding us on the bottom ones. Losing Callahan put Tortorella in the unenviable situation of trying to mix and match players to lines. The Rangers are not set in their roles the way the Caps are.

But talking of Drury--in hockey terms he's an old man. Specifically his skating lags behind almost all of his teammates--exceptions Prospal and McCabe. Drury is not a good fit as a grinding player which is where Torts has him now--he can take a hit okay but keeping the puck is another thing and he doesn't play a very physical game. Playoffs turn into wars of attrition. When Drury was a scoring threat a few years ago--he could do what he did best then--find seams in the D and knock in goals and he could get away with not having to be a physical player. He just doesn't seem to fit anywhere anymore.

Drury has not however made a bunch of big, huge blunders that have led to Capitals goals so I can't really see how he is sinking the ship. He's just not accomplishing anything meaningful for his team.

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04-16-2011, 05:57 PM
  #400
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Drury = zero impact on this team

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