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Burke says we need to get bigger

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Old
03-25-2011, 11:28 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by LoveRealHockey View Post
Schenn is NOT overvalued. He is already a difference maker on defense and his offense is really picking up. He reminds me of an old-school defender from the 60's along the lines of a Tim Horton. He just a really smart player, getting better and better.

Schenn is a Leaf for life and will be the future captain on this team and, which a little luck, hoisting up the Stanley cup in a few years.

Love Luke Schenn
BROtip: Phaneuf is the captain for a long while. Everyone praises his leadership and his play of late has been a godsend, but hey man..he has a big contract therefore he is a bust.

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03-25-2011, 11:37 AM
  #102
Baba Ganoush
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
get bigger.
Kadri: 170 ---> 195
Gunnarsson: 189 ---> 215
Aulie: 208 --->225
Grabovski 182 -->195

Laich --->205
Upshall --->195
i think he probably means bigger forwards, since our D is already quite large.

Kadri: 6'0"
Grabovski: 5'11"

Laich: 6'2"
Upshall: 6'0"

not exactly monsters.

we only have TWO forwards who are 6'2" + ... Orr & Armstrong.

ridiculous.

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03-25-2011, 01:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ramonajams View Post
what the hell you talkin about with this "upside" bs.. lol

look at schenn's pass last night to bozie. he's not here to score goals, but is capable of pitching in, has a nice point shot, etc. he's actually looked really good holding the line on several occasions in recent games, danglin a bit.

anyways, feel free to continue painting the picture black or white if you like.....

p.s. none of those trades are going to happen so I'm not sure why you would use some ridiculous hypothetical trade to justify schenn's weaknesses. strange argument.
you can believe he's got good upside but like I said every player is bound to make a few good offensive plays a year even the worse offensive players. I brought up those names because the guy I quoted said he wouldn't deal schenn for anyone, I went on to say there were atleast 30 or more players I would deal schenn for straigth up and his reply was still no he wouldn't deal him for anyone. So I brought up the names.

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03-25-2011, 02:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
I seriously love how we want to push Lupul down after he came off a major injury that sidelined him for months upon months and if he played a full season would be on pace for 17 goals, and if he played a full season at the pace he's been playing on the Leafs he would pick up 20 goals. That's ignoring his snakebitten slow start too.

Only issue on our top line is the centre, then it comes down to scoring depth on the bottom lines. DO NOT sign Laich/Richards because it shackles us and logjams with our near NHL ready prospect centers in Colborne/Kadri. In 2-3 years both of them could be up with the team, why do you want to put them on the 3rd/4th lines under [center] - Grabovski?
Pushing Lupul down has nothing to do with his goalscoring prowess, it has everything to do with his fit alongside Phil Kessel. Toronto needs to stop kidding themselves with his wingers by putting him with average-to-below-average sized players who are also primarily goalscorers.

Kessel has zero defensive game by NHL standards, so he's not going to be the guy that backchecks with any type of success. He's also not the kind of player who goes into the corners,because again, that's just not his game. The guy who Kessel plays with has to be a big crash and bang winger that can not only maintain posession of the puck down low, but make a decent pass to the centre or Kessel.

It can't be a guy like Joffrey Lupul, because he's not good enough on the cycle to do it without major support from Bozak (or whoever the centre is), nor is he good enough defensively to get a centre that you're comfortable letting get trapped down low.

So, when you accept the fact that Lupul & Kessel together is not a good idea for next season, and accept the fact that MacArthur-Grabovski-Kulemin are a damn good idea for next season.... which leaves Lupul on the 3rd line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
I don't think he was specifically talking about using the body to separate someone from the puck. I took it as using defensive positioning, angles, speed etc to keep a player from passing lanes, to get to loose pucks 1st etc. In a situation where "everyone covers their man" you get little puck support. If a player beats a man 1:1, you'd get a great scoring chance every time. This wingers cover the points scenario, which worked in minor hockey, will not work at an NHL level.

D-zone coverage is more like a zone in basketball, where everyone covers an area, but, what you have to remember is, the zone changes based on where the other teams players are. Winhgers move in and out based on passing lanes etc.

Don Cherry is archaic in his methods, and anyone who follows his mold is too. It might worked just fine at lower levels, but notice how at those levels, a good player will dominate the stat sheets.
Exactly. Like I said, it doesn't matter if you remove the puck from the guy or the guy from the puck, as long as the guy and the puck are separated, you're doing ok. The fact that Phil Kessel basically stands by his point man hoping the puck comes to him is not a good thing. He does it because he's not strong enough to get the puck away from the opposition, nor is his first step quick enough to change directions when you're pursuing the puck carrier.

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Old
03-25-2011, 02:58 PM
  #105
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Lupul arrives and Kessel is a consistent PPG player. I sure hope they find someone who really compliments him soon.

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03-25-2011, 03:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post
Lupul arrives and Kessel is a consistent PPG player.
Do you actually believe that?

Maybe he is just scoring and playing the way a 5 million dollar player should be playing. What is with you and sample size ? Players go on streaks and with this inference, why is Lupul not PPG? Is his puck possession, cycling, and forecheck that vital to the lines success? Or is Kessel simply zoning in on the PP?

The five on five numbers for the line are less than stunning.

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03-25-2011, 03:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Do you actually believe that?

Maybe he is just scoring and playing the way a 5 million dollar player should be playing. What is with you and sample size ? Players go on streaks and with this inference, why is Lupul not PPG? Is his puck possession, cycling, and forecheck that vital to the lines success? Or is Kessel simply zoning in on the PP?

The five on five numbers for the line are less than stunning.
No, it's because Lupul > Crabb or other useless wingers Kessel was playing with. He can create plays and space for Kessel like others couldn't. Did you see the pass Lupul made to Kessel on the PP?

Kessel is putting up good numbers because he is finally playing with a top 6 forward game in and game out.

Get him a #1 center and with Lupul, you will see Kessel put up even better numbers.

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Old
03-25-2011, 03:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
No, it's because Lupul > Crabb or other useless wingers Kessel was playing with. He can create plays and space for Kessel like others couldn't. Did you see the pass Lupul made to Kessel on the PP?

Kessel is putting up good numbers because he is finally playing with a top 6 forward game in and game out.

Get him a #1 center and with Lupul, you will see Kessel put up even better numbers.
Find out how many five on five points Lupul has assisted or scored from Kessel. Divide that by how many games he has played. You will be shocked. Then look at the minuses, and that will dispel any emergent ideas that he is helping the defence of the line. Or just watch the games without the blinders. Your choice.

It's just sooooo Leaf Nation to wait until Lupul helps out Kessel or vis a versa a few games and then make sweeping statements that Lupul is turning Kessel into a PPG player. Sample size folks. Sample size.

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03-25-2011, 03:29 PM
  #109
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Can Shaq skate?

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Old
03-25-2011, 03:38 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Find out how many five on five points Lupul has assisted or scored from Kessel. Divide that by how many games he has played. You will be shocked. Then look at the minuses, and that will dispel any emergent ideas that he is helping the defence of the line. Or just watch the games without the blinders. Your choice.

It's just sooooo Leaf Nation to wait until Lupul helps out Kessel or vis a versa a few games and then make sweeping statements that Lupul is turning Kessel into a PPG player. Sample size folks. Sample size.
On a line, you don't always have to get points to make your linemates better.

Are you really going to argue Kessel hasn't been better with Lupul and instead he is better off with someone like Crabb at his wing?

Kessel has been PPG since Lupul came but no one is calling him a PPG player. He needs to prove over the course of full season but undeniably, he has been better with Lupul.

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Old
03-25-2011, 03:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Find out how many five on five points Lupul has assisted or scored from Kessel. Divide that by how many games he has played. You will be shocked. Then look at the minuses, and that will dispel any emergent ideas that he is helping the defence of the line. Or just watch the games without the blinders. Your choice.

It's just sooooo Leaf Nation to wait until Lupul helps out Kessel or vis a versa a few games and then make sweeping statements that Lupul is turning Kessel into a PPG player. Sample size folks. Sample size.
Bozak is the bane of that line. Everything runs through the center of a line. Lupul can play a 1st line wing role. He has the creativity, speed, shot and cycle potential. Just needs to work on finish. Don't assume Lupul is the problem. Your loverboy Kessel has A LOT more significant deficiencies in his game than Lupul.

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:02 PM
  #112
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whoever said James Neal is a bust for Pittsburg...

Wait until James Neal plays with Crosby...This is going to turn out to be a great trade for Pittsburg!

I predict he scores at least 40 goals in a season with a healthy Crosby

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03-25-2011, 04:05 PM
  #113
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I'd be interested in seeing what the Rangers do with Boyle

He showed some promise this year and obviously has the size

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:22 PM
  #114
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Ryan Malone?
James Van Reimsdyk?
Brandon Sutter?
Patrik Berglund?
Jordan Staal?
Ryane Clowe?
RJ Umberger?

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:37 PM
  #115
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Call me fantasist (?), but I maintain that there is only 1 UFA available next summer; who'd be a true #1 C on a championship team. Odds are against us, but am hopeful.

Unless Burke pulls something from his hat of tricks and does a trade, chances of us getting a 1C are bleak, because as someone said; very few teams are willing to part with their #1 C.

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:41 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Leafsfan80 View Post
Call me fantasist (?), but I maintain that there is only 1 UFA available next summer; who'd be a true #1 C on a championship team. Odds are against us, but am hopeful.

Unless Burke pulls something from his hat of tricks and does a trade, chances of us getting a 1C are bleak, because as someone said; very few teams are willing to part with their #1 C.
Burke may go the trade route, he has the assets to do so,

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:45 PM
  #117
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Can Shaq skate?
Funny, because when I was in the US there's an awesome commercial for NHL Network with Shaq and Ryan Miller playing air hockey. Can't find it though.

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Old
03-25-2011, 04:46 PM
  #118
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we had bigger: sundin, antropov, ponikarovsky

how'd that work out again?

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03-25-2011, 04:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
we had bigger: sundin, antropov, ponikarovsky

how'd that work out again?
Pretty good, they were a good top line for us on a team without much secondary scoring.

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03-25-2011, 04:53 PM
  #120
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Burkes been saying this since day 1, our forwards haven't exactly grown, if anything I think they may have shrunk :/

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03-25-2011, 04:55 PM
  #121
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Pretty good, they were a good top line for us on a team without much secondary scoring.
no cup = fail

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Old
03-25-2011, 05:02 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by jomas View Post
Burkes been saying this since day 1, our forwards haven't exactly grown, if anything I think they may have shrunk :/
Hes been growing our goalie and defence. They are pretty freakin' huge now - except for Lebda, but I don't expect him to stick around.

Our forwards will grow now.

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03-25-2011, 05:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
no cup = fail
Anaheim won the cup with a big team, so your point is fairly useless.

Why chime in if you're views are this limited?

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Old
03-25-2011, 05:05 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
no cup = fail
We could only dream that a player like Sundin ever comes back to play for the Leafs, let alone come and center Kessel.

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Old
03-25-2011, 05:06 PM
  #125
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Burke is right on both counts. Size upfront has been an issue for awhile now. We could use some down the middle & the wing. Armstrong & Lupul was a start but the team still needs more.

With regards to a center, who we get is anyones guess. There are not alot of number one centers that are available. Lots of teams are looking for help down the middle.

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