I don't think they'd match that. But I also have a hard time seeing anyone doing that.
The Blues would get a 1st/2nd/3rd in compensation for that type of offer, I believe...and I think they'd take the picks in that case. Ask whether anyone would trade those 3 picks for Berglund and I think the unlikelihood of this type of offer becomes more clear.
I don't think they'd match that. But I also have a hard time seeing anyone doing that.
The Blues would get a 1st/2nd/3rd in compensation for that type of offer, I believe...and I think they'd take the picks in that case. Ask whether anyone would trade those 3 picks for Berglund and I think the unlikelihood of this type of offer becomes more clear.
question also becomes, since those draft picks MUST be the teams own draft picks, which teams currently own their 1st, 2nd and 3rd?
of course reaquiring them couldn't be that difficult.
I don't think they'd match that. But I also have a hard time seeing anyone doing that.
The Blues would get a 1st/2nd/3rd in compensation for that type of offer, I believe...and I think they'd take the picks in that case. Ask whether anyone would trade those 3 picks for Berglund and I think the unlikelihood of this type of offer becomes more clear.
Fair enough. I am just curious because I offered Clark Macarthur, BOS 1st, and I believe phi 3rd earlier in the year in this thread, and I believe the consensus was no, but I may not be right so dont quote me lol. Im too lazy to go find it.
The leafs board is thinking about Berglund as an offersheet target seeing as the blues are not in the greatest position financially. But you guys would likely match anything until it gets to the 1st / 2nd / third range.
question also becomes, since those draft picks MUST be the teams own draft picks, which teams currently own their 1st, 2nd and 3rd?
of course reaquiring them couldn't be that difficult.
Are you sure about that stipulation? I think they must have picks available, but they could be from other trades. I believe that if they have (say 2 2nds) that they must use their own pick. But if they only have one 3rd and its from another team, they can use it to compensate.
I'm no CBA expert. This is just how I understand it from wikipedia. I may be misreading it, too.
Fair enough. I am just curious because I offered Clark Macarthur, BOS 1st, and I believe phi 3rd earlier in the year in this thread, and I believe the consensus was no, but I may not be right so dont quote me lol. Im too lazy to go find it.
The leafs board is thinking about Berglund as an offersheet target seeing as the blues are not in the greatest position financially. But you guys would likely match anything until it gets to the 1st / 2nd / third range.
I don't remember that hypothetical offer, but the Blues are certainly not looking to exchange Berglund for picks. However, if the price is too high and the picks are good quality, they would allow an offer sheet to stand.
It would set back the team, however I'm sure Armstrong would start working on a way to convert those resources into a developed player that addresses a team need (which could easily be another Center). But if someone is paying 5M for Berglund, why would the Blues match? Maybe they can pay 7M and get Richards instead, plus the picks.
All of that offer sheet stuff can be avoided by signing him to a 3-year, $10.5m contract. ($3.5 per). It's a big jump, but an offer sheet may very well be more than that and without knowing whether Berglund actually wants to stay in St. Louis, a very good offer from Army before it gets too close to free agency will go a long way I think.
Perhaps, given his predicted escalated value over the life of the contract, it could be back-loaded. 1st year-$2.75m; 2nd year-$3.5m; 3rd year-$4.25m.
This structure would be able to account for Berglund's predicted growth and escalated value.
For an armchair GM, I think this looks pretty good.
All of that offer sheet stuff can be avoided by signing him to a 3-year, $10.5m contract. ($3.5 per). It's a big jump, but an offer sheet may very well be more than that and without knowing whether Berglund actually wants to stay in St. Louis, a very good offer from Army before it gets too close to free agency will go a long way I think.
Perhaps, given his predicted escalated value over the life of the contract, it could be back-loaded. 1st year-$2.75m; 2nd year-$3.5m; 3rd year-$4.25m.
This structure would be able to account for Berglund's predicted growth and escalated value.
For an armchair GM, I think this looks pretty good.
It also protects the team financially just long enough to have a new owner / group well established.
Are you sure about that stipulation? I think they must have picks available, but they could be from other trades. I believe that if they have (say 2 2nds) that they must use their own pick. But if they only have one 3rd and its from another team, they can use it to compensate.
I'm no CBA expert. This is just how I understand it from wikipedia. I may be misreading it, too.
MISCELLANEOUS
-- The numbers in the table above change at the same rate as the change in the Average League Salary.
-- Teams must use their own draft picks for the purpose of compensation, including picks that were traded and later reacquired. They cannot use draft picks acquired from other teams (which were not originally theirs) to offer as compensation.
I am sure it can be linked to an NHL.com CBA section but I am not a CBA person either. As I said though, re-acquiring traded picks is pretty frigging easy.
That's the whole point of a back-loaded deal. Next year he would not be worth more than $3m per, so he's paid less ($2.75m). But we are predicting that he will get better next year, which means his values increases for the following season. So, the 2nd year of the contract he gets paid accordingly; $3.5m. And so on through the end of the deal. I know it sounds simple in an almost elementary way, but it's kind of the way I see it playing out.
I just browsed through the UFA/RFA thread on the Toronto board. McDonald, Berglund, and Oshie are all mentioned multiple times. It's an, uh, interesting read to say the least.
Most of their proposals have them maxing out the cap next year. I'm not sure why they think they will go from a bottom half payroll to a maxed out one...especially with the CBA due to expire soon.
I'm also not sure why they think their GM will extend an offer sheet to a player that will probably overpay him by about 65% relative to his production for the duration of the contract (while simultaneously making him the third highest player on the team).
If they want him during his prime years they're going to have to sign him to another contract anyway, so they might as well let him finish developing on someone else's dime and then try and snag him later instead of overpaying (in terms of money and draft picks) in order to develop him themselves with no guarantee that he'll stick around after that contract is up. It just doesn't make much sense, especially since Toronto seems to be more than a Berglund away from being a serious contender.
Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-29-2011 at 07:36 PM.
nah. GM's can re-acquire their picks pretty easy if they need to.
Not always, and it's not ideal (i.e. it'll probably cost you an extra pick). When was the last time a team traded for their own pick to offer sheet a player? I can't think of any... there was speculation that Toronto was going to offer sheet Kessel as they traded a 2nd + 3rd for their 2nd rounder back IIRC, but they ended up trading for him in the end, so I'm not sure how much was achieved with that trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22
I just browsed through the UFA/RFA thread on the Toronto board. McDonald, Berglund, and Oshie are all mentioned multiple times. It's an, uh, interesting read to say the least.
Most of their proposals have them maxing out the cap next year. I'm not sure why they think they will go from a bottom half payroll to a maxed out one...especially with the CBA due to expire soon.
I'm also not sure why they think their GM will extend an offer sheet to a player that will probably overpay him by about 65% relative to his production for the duration of the contract (while simultaneously making him the third highest player on the team).
If they want him during his prime years they're going to have to sign him to another contract anyway, so they might as well let him finish developing on someone else's dime and then try and snag him later instead of overpaying (in terms of money and draft picks) in order to develop him themselves with no guarantee that he'll stick around after that contract is up. It just doesn't make much sense, especially since Toronto seems to be more than a Berglund away from being a serious contender.
From a Torontonian's perspective, my guess is that the fans know that since money is something that Toronto has no shortage of, and they'd rather spend money than trade valuable assets (which they aren't overflowing with). I haven't looked through the thread because I'm not a fan of trade proposals but they're probably aware of the Blues' financial situation, or at least know that the Blues probably won't match a ridiculous offer. Of course, they should also realize that Burke wouldn't make a ridiculous offer after the whole Penner situation.
edit: to be clear, I don't think Toronto will spend to the cap either, especially with the CBA expiring. But the point is that they can absolutely afford to, if they want to, and that financial stability/flexibility is a strength the organization has in the free agent market.
Anyway, I'm not overly concerned. The Blues have a lot of cap space, and offer sheets are a lot rarer than people make them out to be.
edit: to be clear, I don't think Toronto will spend to the cap either, especially with the CBA expiring. But the point is that they can absolutely afford to, if they want to, and that financial stability/flexibility is a strength the organization has in the free agent market.
I agree wholeheartedly. I didn't mean to imply that I thought they wouldn't because they couldn't...I just don't think that Burke is dumb enough to blow all his team's financial flexibility right before the CBA expires on a weak FA class and offer sheets.
Also, to be fair, that board has a ridiculous amount of traffic (to their credit) so any good sized thread is probably going to be chock full of things that are all over the map in terms of plausbility. We have our FIO to represent the...minority opinion...around here. They probably have 30 FIOs.
Well the front office has already shown they'll hit back with an offer sheet. If the Leafs spend to the cap and use one of our players to get there, they're completely screwed when it's time to fit their RFA's under the cap and we have a ton of space and new ownership. It might be a shrewd win-now move, but it'll just be one that haunts them when we can use their picks and then burn our later ones to take a player back.
For those of you who keep saying the Blues might not match bc of their financial situation you have to remember right now they are well below the cap and need to have a higher pay roll next season than they did at the end of last year to meet the cap floor.
Check out THIS ARTICLE for a VERY candid interview with Bergy in which he talks about how he partied too much which led to his sophomore slump and how he turned it around for this season. He talks quite a bit about what he and Oshie would do that they really shouldn't have been. Hopefully Osh gets the same wake-up call Bergy did as you could easily see the difference on the ice this season!
Check out THIS ARTICLE for a VERY candid interview with Bergy in which he talks about how he partied too much which led to his sophomore slump and how he turned it around for this season. He talks quite a bit about what he and Oshie would do that they really shouldn't have been. Hopefully Osh gets the same wake-up call Bergy did as you could easily see the difference on the ice this season!
Was just going to post that here.
Bergy had the epiphany, now he just needs to continue to work hard and he will get closer to be that number one center we all hoped he would become.
"I was crap psyched." ? Not sure what it means, but I like the expression.
Somewhere in there is a bit of vindication for Murray. I sure like how honest Bergie is. Makes it sound like there is some true maturity after all that. Also makes me wonder about Oshie, and hope he has the same awakening.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons Brewer is gone? The team needs a different kind of vocal leader who won't tolerate this stuff. When I hear some of the old timer NHL players talk about it, they make it clear that the players policed themselves as a team. Maybe its just a different era now, but I'd like to think good team leaders can make a difference.
Thanks for posting this. Very candid. Some of the translation is a little quirky, but you get the gist of it.
Well the good thing about Berglund and Oshie being such good friends is that he has the same opportunity to help Oshie mature as they did getting each other in trouble. We know if Oshie decides to step it up this summer he'll have a work out buddy every day. If those two create an internal rivalry to out score and out hit each other it would be awesome to see on the ice.
I remember a year and a half ago there was a Blues promo; sort of a "Get to the now the Blues" thingy. And Oshie was showing the audience around his place that he shared with Berglund in a Blues-Stylin' Crib--St. Louuuuis type thing.
Berglund was laying on the couch the whole time the camera operator was recording. He simply waved once and looked apathetic to the whole promo.
Not a very good impression of him and made me think that he and Oshie go out and party a lot. Pretty sure the video was during his down period.
I remember a year and a half ago there was a Blues promo; sort of a "Get to the now the Blues" thingy. And Oshie was showing the audience around his place that he shared with Berglund in a Blues-Stylin' Crib--St. Louuuuis type thing.
Berglund was laying on the couch the whole time the camera operator was recording. He simply waved once and looked apathetic to the whole promo.
Not a very good impression of him and made me think that he and Oshie go out and party a lot. Pretty sure the video was during his down period.
I remember that article. I think you are over thinking it. Bergy was prolly tired.
