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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IX

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Old
03-25-2011, 06:33 PM
  #26
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I agree that we diminish the greatness of players with long, productive careers by considering someone who was good at something for a year or two to be good at it in an all-time sense.

Disagree that tikhonov should be selected right behind Keenan. Keenan is arguably a top 15 all time coach and was a huge steal when selected. His weaknesses make him drop a lot, but tikhonov has similar weaknesses and then some.
Keenan has too many problems associated with him that prevent him from being a top 15 all time coach. As you said, Keenan has pretty much every weakness that Tikhonov has, but to a lesser degree. Keenan made plenty of enemies, but Tikhonov probably made a few more. But with both, the players admit that the coach knew what he was doing.

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Old
03-25-2011, 06:44 PM
  #27
vancityluongo
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edit: nvm.

However, since I already am taking up this post space and I can't delete it, might as well add me to the boat that think Toews went a tad bit early. His accomplishments make him better suited to center a MLD 2nd line, IMO, even with 40 teams. However, he does have INTANGIBLES. (can't believe I just made a main board reference here...)

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:04 PM
  #28
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Tikhonov handled players like cannon fodder, he couldn't care less about them and didn't respect them, if he didn't like somebody his career in the NT was over, a nd it didn't matter, how talented the was. He admitted, that he wanted to replace the most talented forward he had - Makarov with Fetisov's little brother, only the tragic death of the later averted that. His players didn't play for him, they played fearing him. Another point is, he was never succesful after the end of Soviet Union.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:06 PM
  #29
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
2). The time windows will be tight but reasonable.

12 hour clock for the first two rounds, (shortlists PM'd to me highly encouraged here)
then 8 hour clock for rounds 3-8,
then 6 hour clock for rounds 9-25
**** that.

It's 4 hour limit starting in round 19.

Nobody agreed to change it, so it's not getting changed.

edit: Not directed at you Velo.... I know seventies changed it.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:09 PM
  #30
jarek
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We agreed, before the draft began, to have a 4 hour clock starting from round 19. NOT A SINGLE PERSON made a fuss about it. As far as I'm concerned, we're running on 4 hour clocks.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:11 PM
  #31
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
**** that.

It's 4 hour limit starting in round 19.

Nobody agreed to change it, so it's not getting changed.

edit: Not directed at you Velo.... I know seventies changed it.
Hopefully, it was just a protest edit by someone, and not something they actually expect to be followed...

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:11 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
His players didn't play for him, they played fearing him.
That's what Mike Keenan wanted as well, it's just harder to do that in the NHL.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:15 PM
  #33
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
We agreed, before the draft began, to have a 4 hour clock starting from round 19. NOT A SINGLE PERSON made a fuss about it. As far as I'm concerned, we're running on 4 hour clocks.
I know I'm making my picks according to the GM ahead of me having a 4 hour clock.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:16 PM
  #34
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Hopefully, it was just a protest edit by someone, and not something they actually expect to be followed...
The rule was not changed. It's a 4 hour clock.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:19 PM
  #35
seventieslord
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I guess you will be very surprised to hear, then, that I did not change that, and I didn't tell anyone to change it either.

But let it be said again. I decided on 4 hours myself, no one "agreed" on it in the first place.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:26 PM
  #36
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I guess you will be very surprised to hear, then, that I did not change that, and I didn't tell anyone to change it either.

But let it be said again. I decided on 4 hours myself, no one "agreed" on it in the first place.
Sorry for assuming it was you.

Please change it back to the way it should be in the OP.

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:29 PM
  #37
Hawkey Town 18
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Keenan seems to have a pattern of early success for a short time, but then wears out his welcome quickly and loses the players. How does this apply to the ATD? Is it a good thing for him because the ATD is only one season or is that not how we're suppose to look at it?

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Old
03-25-2011, 07:56 PM
  #38
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We have a 4 hour clock for the last six rounds of the draft. Don't unilaterally change them now.

I am the 5th voice of protest at the unfairness of changing the rules midway through, especially to lengthen the clocks!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur
I know I'm making my picks according to the GM ahead of me having a 4 hour clock.
Me too then!

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:00 PM
  #39
TheDevilMadeMe
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Punch imlach would be just as much of a short term coach as Keenan or pat burns in today's game. I think it's more important to have Players who can deal with it.


Speaking of Keenan, how do people think Esposito will get along with him? I can't think of a more perfect coach for cleghorn though.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-25-2011 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
03-25-2011, 08:10 PM
  #40
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sorry for missing my picks folks - i'm currently on a scandanavian hockey trip with my team and haven't had much opportunity to access the internet.

keep skipping my picks and i'll make them up when i get home (a couple days) if not before then.

cheers

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:19 PM
  #41
vecens24
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Wasn't me who switched the hour limit thing either.

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:22 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Punch imlach would be just as much of a short term coach as Keenan or pat burns in today's game. I think it's more important to have Players who can deal with it.


Speaking of Keenan, how do people think Esposito will get along with him? I can't think of a more perfect coach for cleghorn though.
Are you saying Imlach is a problem as a coach?

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Old
03-25-2011, 08:31 PM
  #43
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I'm another one in the ''don't change the rules midway camp''

edit: arent we still in the 18 th round though?

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Old
03-25-2011, 09:56 PM
  #44
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm pretty sure he played LW when he was in Chicago. Doug Bentley at center and Mosienko on RW.
Makes sense. Thanks. His scoring resume is pretty similar in both New York and Chicago, so I think he'd be equally effective at both. I'm planning on using him mainly as a center, but it's nice to have so many multi-positional forwards in case of injury. Basically means it doesn't matter what forward position my spares play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Are you saying Imlach is a problem as a coach?

I'm saying he's a "my way or the highway" totalitarian coach like Keenan and Tikhonov and to a slightly lesser extent Pat Burns. But in the Original 6 era, they fired the players, not the coaches like they do in the modern NHL. So I think it's unfair to modern coaches to fault them for bouncing from team to team. Just my opinion.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-25-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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Old
03-25-2011, 10:49 PM
  #45
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Sorry fellas, I only changed it because I thought we had reached an agreement, I know that rules aren't supposed to be changed, but it seemed that something several people had come to agreement on. I'll change it immediately. Also seventies are you sure that you are penalized for last night? You made the pick under the allotted time window, and traded the selected player after picking him. I don't think that should warrant an hour deduction penalty. Would appreciate if someone could clarify, thanks!

Quote:
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Anyone know when nik's pick expires?
You're up in 20 minutes! His clock expires at 11:10 PM ET.

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Old
03-26-2011, 12:18 AM
  #46
Dwight
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Sorry for the delay

Battle Creek will round out their 12-man forward unit with...

Bob Davidson, LW

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Old
03-26-2011, 12:32 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Speaking of Keenan, how do people think Esposito will get along with him? I can't think of a more perfect coach for cleghorn though.
Heh, that is interesting. Keenan was a pioneer in introducing short shifts, and didn't like players who stayed on too long. Espo took loooonnngg shifts, even for his era. I've read that sometimes he would play through all three sets of wingers in Boston.

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Old
03-26-2011, 12:44 AM
  #48
jarek
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I read somewhere (I think Espo's LoH interview), that he was just getting warmed up after 3-4 minutes on the ice.. haha.

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Old
03-26-2011, 12:46 AM
  #49
TheDevilMadeMe
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Swamp Devils Powerplay

Now that I have all the pieces, I think it's time to explain how the Swamp Devils powerplay will work.

First Unit

On the faceoff: Vyacheslav Starshinov - Henri Richard - Maurice Richard - Babe Pratt - Dan Boyle

In the offensive zone:

The first powerplay will involve constant movement by the Richard brothers in the offensive zone, which will confuse and tire out the defense.

Point Men:

Babe Pratt (left handed) - Dan Boyle (right handed, primary QB)

Dan Boyle isn't an elite PP QB in the All-Time draft, but he is still a very good one, in my opinion he is very slightly behind Zubov and Housley as a PP QB. He will be the primary QB of the Swamp Devils PP. Since he is only playing bottom pairing minutes at even strength, this frees him up to play massive minutes on the powerplay.

I chose Pratt over Quackenbush for the first unit because I think his skillset works better for the powerplay. Their overall offense is close to even I think, but anecdotes suggest they got their points in different ways. Quack's profiles rave about how he "controlled the pace of the game like Doug Harvey," "rushed the puck like Eddie Shore." These are transition abilities. I expect Quack to put up more points at even strength than Pratt. But Pratt's LOH profile raves about his ability to keep play pinned in the offensive zone - a huge advantage on the powerplay. This also allows Quack to focus on a more defensive role.

Forwards:

Henri Richard (roaming) - Vyacheslav Starshinov (net) - Maurice Richard (moving/high slot/half boards)


Henri Richard might have never gotten PP ice time on the stacked Canadiens back when teams only had one 5 man PP unit. But I think his skillset is perfect for what I would call a "roamer" on a certain modern powerplay setup. Basically, he will have no set position on the powerplay, and will use his speed, smarts, and tenacity, to roam at will in the offensive zone - chasing and retrieving pucks and looking to create 2-on-1s down low. This is similar to the role Patrik Elias played for years on the NJ Devils, including when they had the league's best PP.

Henri Richard is an excellent playmaker and will have many options when he gets the puck on his stick:

The first option is to pass to his brother, Maurice. Maurice won't have a set position either, but won't roam as much as his brother - he'll usually be found in the high slot or along the half boards. Maurice's job without the puck is to move around and look for openings in the coverage to get his deadly shot off. With someone as dangerous as Maurice on the move, I wouldn't be surprised if an opposing defenseman basically shadowed him on the penalty kill, which of course means only one defenseman will be covering the other two forwards. When Maurice does get open, he has one of the most accurate shots of all time from any area of the ice.

The second option is Starshinov in front of the net. Starshinov might be the most physically strong Soviet forward of all time, and goals in front of the net are his bread and butter (compared to Phil Esposito in style).

Third option is to send the puck back to the points. And of course, Henri Richard can also shoot the puck himself, finishing top 10 in goals twice while receiving no powerplay time.

Second Unit

On the faceoff: Todd Bertuzzi - Clint Smith - Zigmund Palffy - Bill Quackenbush - Boyle / Art Coulter

In the offensive zone:

This unit will show the penalty killers a different look, with Smith and Palffy taking more stationary positions along opposing half boards.

Point Men:

The pointmen from the first unit always stay on longer than the forwards (since their job is less tiring). So the second unit forwards will see significant time with Pratt/Boyle. Pratt will change at a set time (sometime after the first 1:20 or so) and Boyle will have the option to stay on or change.

Bill Quackenbush (left handed) - Dan Boyle / Art Coulter (right handed)

Quackenbush will replace Pratt and has quite a bit of skill with the puck himself. Coulter will do mop up duty on the right side once Boyle changes. He's not great offensively in this context, but he's not awful. This allows me to have my top shutdown pair (Quackenbush - Coulter) on the ice at the conclusion of an unsuccessful power play, a huge plus for obvious reasons.

Forwards:

Clint Smith (left half boards) - Todd Bertuzzi (net) - Zigmund Palffy (QB from the right half boards)

Palffy will more or less run the second PP from the right side halfboards, like he did in the NHL (and like Markus Naslund did for Bert from the left side).

This unit is simple - Bert will put his big body in front of the goalie. For 3 years, Bert was an amazing power play goal scorer, including leading the league in power play goals once.

Palffy and Smith will take their spots on opposing half boards, and both men can both shoot and pass at a high level.

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Old
03-26-2011, 01:49 AM
  #50
jarek
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With 40 teams, I don't know how good that 2nd unit may or may not be. It seems pretty horrible, to me.

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