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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IX

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:42 PM
  #476
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Selke votes in general are kind of a joke... Kesler has taken on a lot less of a defensive role this year, since Malhotra joined the team, and he's set to win it

btw, I agree that Hossa > Toews defensively, and I also put forward that Hossa has been the most under-rated two-way forward in the league
If I'm not mistaken, Hossa actually had the league's best CORSI rating last year after strength of opposition and linemates was taken into consideration.

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:43 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
It actually goes to the best two-way forward, I think. EVERYONE has to be a two-way player these days, it's not good enough to JUST specialize in offense or defense (unless you're absolutely elite at either), so the Selke rewards guys who are excellent at both.
It quite obviously does go to the best 2-way forward, but the definition is best defensive forward.

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:50 PM
  #478
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Who can take a list?

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:50 PM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Lol, that's hilarious.
keenan was obviously not an option for my coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
With our first skipped selection, the Toronto St. Pats are happy to select a tremendous power-forward who plays a perfect, tough, "typical fourth line" kind of game. He does this while also bringing a pretty solid offensive resume, including 4 years at above 60% of the 2nd place scorer in points (removing Gretzky and Lemieux), as well as being a one time SAST. He is LW Gerard Gallant.

Second pick to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
With our other pick, the Toronto St. Pats are happy to round out our fourth line with an incredibly tough and skilled competitor. In addition to a solid four years at above 50% of the 2nd placed scorer in points, he provided incredible toughness, particulary noted for being an agitating trash talker, man who can hond opposing stars, and a powerful body checker.

His toughness is so great, in fact, that Newsy Lalonde, before he died, named him to his "All-Time Mean Team" along with the likes of Joe Hall, Sprague Cleghorn, Eddie Shore, Ted Lindsay, Bill Cook, Ken Randall, Cully Wilson, and Bill Eznicki.

He is RW Leo Labine
both of those were on my list.

i think that article about lalonde's picks for dirty players says that nels stewart did not invent spitting tobacco into an goalie's face. apparently an undrafted goalie did it to F's.

i may post that article after all the players have been picked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Considering toews has never been the center getting the top defensive assignments in chicago, his selke votes are kind of a joke. Hossa > Toews defensively also.
in several games, toews has played against datsyuk and zetterberg.

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:50 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It quite obviously does go to the best 2-way forward, but the definition is best defensive forward.
Why can the definition not change to be more suited to the culture of the era?

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:54 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Who can take a list?
You're on the clock in 3 minutes. I can take one if you really need to leave

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Old
03-28-2011, 05:55 PM
  #482
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You're on the clock in 3 minutes. I can take one if you really need to leave
Oh, it's only 3 mins left? Then I can wait.

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:10 PM
  #483
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Winnipeg Falcons selects: Bob Probert, RW

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:23 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If it was easy to separate out secondary assists, I think goals + primary assists + secondaries/2 would be a good formula to estimate offensive contribution. And yes, I do think the 2 passes before an average goal are more valuable combined than the finish. Just my opinion there, and that's why no formula is perfect
.
FYI, I have first and second assists separated in the file with 1953-87 stats that I posted.

I haven't used it to analyze individuals, just made the general observation that great playmakers have their assist totals driven by first assists, and secondary offensive players (like Gillies or Tonelli with Trottier and Bossy) have a higher % of their points as second assists.

IMO a second assist is more like an on-ice goal withou a point awarded (whic also has value on average) than a goal or first assist.

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:28 PM
  #485
seventieslord
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Probert's a LW, isn't he?

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:31 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Probert's a LW, isn't he?
That he is.

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:35 PM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
FYI, I have first and second assists separated in the file with 1953-87 stats that I posted.

I haven't used it to analyze individuals, just made the general observation that great playmakers have their assist totals driven by first assists, and secondary offensive players (like Gillies or Tonelli with Trottier and Bossy) have a higher % of their points as second assists.

IMO a second assist is more like an on-ice goal withou a point awarded (whic also has value on average) than a goal or first assist.
My big issue with degrading secondary assists is that they are a great measure of a defenseman's outlet passing ability

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:55 PM
  #488
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The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Alexei Guryshev.

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:57 PM
  #489
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hello modo - an hour fifteen left
raleh to be autoskipped
then overpass will be up

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Old
03-28-2011, 06:58 PM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
My big issue with degrading secondary assists is that they are a great measure of a defenseman's outlet passing ability
I have no data to back this up, but I bet defensemen have a much closer ratio of 1st assists:2nd assists when on the PP as opposed to even strength. Therefore, I bet this change would probably hurt defenseman that get a lot of their assists at even strength and help defensemen that get a lot of their assists on the PP.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:16 PM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Alexei Guryshev.
Who?

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:18 PM
  #492
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I think he led the KHL in scoring in the lockout year...

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:22 PM
  #493
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god I'm bad with the none-NHL russian players in this thing , except the Kharlamov's of this world , I just don't know any of them , I should start reading their bios one by one just to have a clear picture for the next ATDs.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:23 PM
  #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I think he led the KHL in scoring in the lockout year...
He's a prolific 50s era Soviet goal scorer if you guys are being serious. He was compared to Esposito in style in that he scored many of his goals around the net and in the slot.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:26 PM
  #495
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
He's a prolific 50s era Soviet goal scorer if you guys are being serious. He was compared to Esposito in style in that he scored many of his goals around the net and in the slot.
I wasn't being serious. I was the first guy to ever select him, down in AAA10 as a 4th line center. I did back then, what is still a pretty good bio. I made the argument that "if Bobrov is a 1st line ATD winger, than Guryshev has to at least be a good AAA 4th line center" - The results of the finals of that draft between VI and I, are still pending...

Although he was a good pick down there, I'm not sure of him up here. It really has a lot to do with how seriously you take 1950s Russians.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:30 PM
  #496
TheDevilMadeMe
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I don't know why 50s USSR gets so much more respect than 50s Sweden, for example.

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:32 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I wasn't being serious. I was the first guy to ever select him, down in AAA10 as a 4th line center. I did back then, what is still a pretty good bio. I made the argument that "if Bobrov is a 1st line ATD winger, than Guryshev has to at least be a good AAA 4th line center" - The results of the finals of that draft between VI and I, are still pending...

Although he was a good pick down there, I'm not sure of him up here. It really has a lot to do with how seriously you take 1950s Russians.
I'm not sure how I feel about him as a 4th line center mostly because I don't think ive ever heard anything about his physical game. I think the 50s Russians are underrated around here and have been crusading the Lineup thread about Sologubov and Tregubov. However outside of the playing style and him being numerically the third most prolific Soviet scorer ever I honestly don't know a ton about him. Any chance you can link that bio 70s?

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:37 PM
  #498
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If Sologubov was worth picking ages ago then another early USSR great should be worth it now. Only, I think Sologubov should go on a third pair at best because the late fifties was a weaker era of Soviet hockey than the seventies and eighties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFA87-66-99 View Post
The Pittsburgh Bankers select C Alexei Guryshev.


6'0", 185 lbs, 4-time Soviet league leading scorer and four time all-star, gold medalist in the Olympics and worlds, averaging 1.26 goals/game compared to Bobrov's 1.8, but over a longer career. He is touted as the legend of the Soviet Wings franchise, trailing only Mikhailov and Starshinov in the club's career points. "Like Esposito, Guryshev often scored on rebounds and in the slot."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kings of the Ice
"Tall, well-built and resilient, his superb stickhandling and skaing resulted in a style that was both elegant and strategic. A player of exceptional control, he never resorted to battering ram-style charges or frenzied scuffles for the puck. His specialty was cutting through the confusion with split-second timing and sending the puck into the net... An uncanny instinct for goalscoring and a superb finishing shot were his trump cards, but Guryshev may best be remembered for his unusual slapshot... With no windup, it was a short, quick slap causing the puck to sail straight through midair like a bullet. Guryshev's control of the stick, holding it with a short grip in an almost horizontal position, enabled him to slap the puck on the fly with amazing speed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red Machine
"A big centre-man who hogged the slot area and got a lot of heavy traffic goals for his wings club...one of only three players to average more than a goal a game..."

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:38 PM
  #499
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Wow, he's really behind bobrov

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Old
03-28-2011, 07:39 PM
  #500
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Dawson City selects Allan "Scotty" Davidson, RW.

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