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ATD 2011 Draft Thread IX

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Old
03-29-2011, 08:26 AM
  #526
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Agreed, also isn't Toews looking to get some Hart Consideration this season? Some posters don't understand that Toews plays more offensively for Chicago because he has to. He is their best offensive weapon and Kesler has the luxury of focusing more on the defensive end of the game with the Sedin twins providing the top end offensive talent.
How much better is toews' offense in the atd? Not much.


Last edited by seventieslord: 03-29-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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03-29-2011, 08:46 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How much better is toews' offense in the atd? Not much.
*Completely Misses point on Toews being Primary Scoring option for Chicago and Kessler being a Secondary Scoring Option*

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03-29-2011, 08:47 AM
  #528
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Perhaps the difference in offense in ATD terms isn't big. But at least Toews has achieved something. Kesler has achieved absolutely nothing (yet).

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03-29-2011, 08:48 AM
  #529
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*Completely Misses point on Toews being Primary Scoring option for Chicago and Kessler being a Secondary Scoring Option*
I understand that. I'm just not sure how that is relevant here. This is the first season that toews was the primary scoring option for the team.

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03-29-2011, 08:50 AM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How much better is toews' offense in the atd? Not much.
Neither one of them has much offense to speak of in an atd sense.

Toews has 1 70 point season.

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Old
03-29-2011, 08:51 AM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Perhaps the difference in offense in ATD terms isn't big. But at least Toews has achieved something. Kesler has achieved absolutely nothing (yet).
Three time selke finalist with a much better defensive game and penalty killing ability than toews. With more or less the same offense.

Agree that playoffs is a big gap in kesler's record, but he's more accomplished in the regular season, especially for a bottom 6 role.

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03-29-2011, 08:53 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Perhaps the difference in offense in ATD terms isn't big. But at least Toews has achieved something. Kesler has achieved absolutely nothing (yet).
Are you talking about team accomplishments? I am unsure if Toews' great playoff and Olympics overcomes the two extra high calibre seasons that Kesler has over Toews (at least in terms of defense). This year, Kesler looks like he'll finish with 70+ points, same as Toews, and in terms of overall career, I'm unsure how much of an edge, if any, Toews has over Kesler offensively. I guess it's there if you factor in playoffs, but Toews has always been his team's first line center.. Kesler has had to give up prime time scoring minutes to the Sedin line, and still he puts up incredible point totals with some pretty crap linemates compared to who Toews gets to play with


Last edited by seventieslord: 03-29-2011 at 12:18 PM. Reason: undrafted
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Old
03-29-2011, 08:54 AM
  #533
tony d
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Sorry for the delay here, was waiting on Dave to come on MSN, he's not there yet but I'm ready to make the pick.

We are proud to select Goalie Mikka Kiprusoff:



-Career Record of 273-176-58
-40 Career Shutouts
-3 40 Win Seasons

More on Kipper can be found here:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=18288

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Old
03-29-2011, 08:57 AM
  #534
TheDevilMadeMe
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Kipper is definitely an above average backup in this.

He might even be a borderline starter in a league this size.

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03-29-2011, 09:04 AM
  #535
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The thing about Kipper (and the main reason I passed over him) is that his career is pretty inconsistent. I needed a guy who played well every year. If we want to take the average of a guy's career and apply that to how he'd do in an ATD season, I see a guy like Kipper playing way over his head some nights, and losing the game for his team on others. Also, I felt like too much of his value was in the playoffs as well.

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03-29-2011, 09:07 AM
  #536
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The Fireworks are very proud to select D Paul Shmyr

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:09 AM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Three time selke finalist with a much better defensive game and penalty killing ability than toews. With more or less the same offense.

*Completely misses point on Kesler being able to focus more on being an elite defender and playing large PK minutes in Vancouver (is he on their 1st unit PP?)
Toews who is being penalized for his "less better defensive game" Doesn't play big PK minutes because he in on the 1st unit PP, is relied on too much offensively*

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03-29-2011, 09:10 AM
  #538
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Springfield selects: C Mike Richards and RW Cliff Koroll

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:11 AM
  #539
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The Red Wings select Craig Conroy, C.

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:12 AM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The thing about Kipper (and the main reason I passed over him) is that his career is pretty inconsistent. I needed a guy who played well every year. If we want to take the average of a guy's career and apply that to how he'd do in an ATD season, I see a guy like Kipper playing way over his head some nights, and losing the game for his team on others. Also, I felt like too much of his value was in the playoffs as well.
His career is more consistent than Vernon, Hextall, Richter, and probably most backups left to be drafted.

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:13 AM
  #541
tony d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The thing about Kipper (and the main reason I passed over him) is that his career is pretty inconsistent. I needed a guy who played well every year. If we want to take the average of a guy's career and apply that to how he'd do in an ATD season, I see a guy like Kipper playing way over his head some nights, and losing the game for his team on others. Also, I felt like too much of his value was in the playoffs as well.
Well we have Sawchuk so goaltending shouldn't be an issue for us here. Kipper though should be able to come in and serve us well as a pretty good backup. This was around where he went to last year in the drafts IIRC.

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:17 AM
  #542
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Dammit raleh! Couldn't you have stayed off the board for another day? Mike Richards was so mine.

Better career to date than kesler or Toews by any criteria I would use. I could see taking kesler if all you care about is even strength defense.

But Richards has one more season as a star player than kesler, more points, much better playoffs, and is already an all-time great short handed goal scorer.

For all intents and purposes, Richards basically already has a Selke - Datsyuk beat him for his second selke by the closest margin ever and Richards actually had more first place votes.

Now I have no idea who to pick

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03-29-2011, 09:22 AM
  #543
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You're funny, mark.

Toews doesn't play huge PK minutes? He's second on the Hawks among forwards in SH TOI/G. The Hawks just don't take a lot of penalties, but when they do, he's on the first unit. NEXT!

Also, Toews is being relied on too much offensively because of 1st unit PP time? How about Ryan Kesler, who LEADS HIS TEAM AMONG FORWARDS in PP TOI/G? Toews is 3rd on Chicago. The only difference between the two is that Kesler gets a bit more SH TOI/G, and Toews plays a lot more ES minutes (15:32 Toews vs 14:30 Kesler).

Actually, in terms of minutes played per game, both men lead their teams in TOI/G among forwards, and are remarkably close overall: Toews 20:38 per game, Kesler 20:35.


Last edited by jarek: 03-29-2011 at 09:31 AM.
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Old
03-29-2011, 09:31 AM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
The Red Wings select Craig Conroy, C.
lol, scooped by 1 pick. Bugger!!

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:36 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Dammit raleh! Couldn't you have stayed off the board for another day? Mike Richards was so mine.

Better career to date than kesler or Toews by any criteria I would use. I could see taking kesler if all you care about is even strength defense.

But Richards has one more season as a star player than kesler, more points, much better playoffs, and is already an all-time great short handed goal scorer.

For all intents and purposes, Richards basically already has a Selke - Datsyuk beat him for his second selke by the closest margin ever and Richards actually had more first place votes.

Now I have no idea who to pick
Unlike Toews and Kesler, Richards is brutal at faceoffs.

Kesler: 57.3%, taking team leading 30.9% of team's faceoffs
Toews: 56.7%, taking team leading 35% of team's faceoffs
Richards: 49.9%, taking team leading 25.1% of team's faceoffs

Richards IS 43-36 in SH faceoffs, but overall, his faceoff percentage is atrocious for a guy who leads his team in team faceoffs taken.

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03-29-2011, 09:37 AM
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Dammit raleh! Couldn't you have stayed off the board for another day? Mike Richards was so mine.

Better career to date than kesler or Toews by any criteria I would use. I could see taking kesler if all you care about is even strength defense.

But Richards has one more season as a star player than kesler, more points, much better playoffs, and is already an all-time great short handed goal scorer.

For all intents and purposes, Richards basically already has a Selke - Datsyuk beat him for his second selke by the closest margin ever and Richards actually had more first place votes.

Now I have no idea who to pick
Yeah, the Toews-Kesler debate was weird with Richards still on the board and clearly better.

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:39 AM
  #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Are you talking about team accomplishments? I am unsure if Toews' great playoff and Olympics overcomes the two extra high calibre seasons that Kesler has over Toews (at least in terms of defense). This year, Kesler looks like he'll finish with 70+ points, same as Toews, and in terms of overall career, I'm unsure how much of an edge, if any, Toews has over Kesler offensively. I guess it's there if you factor in playoffs, but Toews has always been his team's first line center.. Kesler has had to give up prime time scoring minutes to the Sedin line, and still he puts up incredible point totals with some pretty crap linemates compared to who Toews gets to play with (namely, Kane). I think Kesler's current linemates are Raymond and I have no idea.
Do you ever take into consideration that Kesler puts up more points because he doesn't play against opponents Top defensive pairings and Defensive lines (and plays against offensive heavy lines who play with offensive minded defenseman which inreturn heavily favours a guy like Kesler?

Do you ever watch hockey? Or just look up stats online and live in a make believe world.

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03-29-2011, 09:43 AM
  #548
TheDevilMadeMe
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I don't see how kesler getting more defensive zone draws and less PP time than toews would help his offense.

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03-29-2011, 09:43 AM
  #549
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Gwinnett selects Pierre Mondou, C

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Old
03-29-2011, 09:48 AM
  #550
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Unlike Toews and Kesler, Richards is brutal at faceoffs.

Kesler: 57.3%, taking team leading 30.9% of team's faceoffs
Toews: 56.7%, taking team leading 35% of team's faceoffs
Richards: 49.9%, taking team leading 25.1% of team's faceoffs

Richards IS 43-36 in SH faceoffs, but overall, his faceoff percentage is atrocious for a guy who leads his team in team faceoffs taken.
Are those career face-offs or this past season?

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