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ATD 2011 Lineup Advice Thread II

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Old
04-04-2011, 02:31 PM
  #276
Sturminator
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Well, it's probably more like 5.5 minutes, but I didn't want to get into decimals....

Is 1:40 on the PP too much for a guy playing easy 3rd pairing minutes at even strength? I'll see what others think.
Playing low even strength minutes doesn't mean Boyle won't get gassed at the end of a long powerplay shift. He's not great defensively by ATD standards to begin with, and while I see your motivation here, I do think that leaving Boyle out there for those kind of PP minutes leaves you pretty vulnerable to counterattack from strong 2nd unit PKers.

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04-04-2011, 02:32 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
I really like the ice-time chart. Is it reasonable to expect Dan Boyle to be playing 6min out of 7 on your PP's though?

If you are estimating 7 minutes, then I'm assuming that's 3 PP's of not scoring and 1 PP where you score after a minute. Assuming Boyle is out there for the full minute on the PP that scores, that gives him 5min out of 6 on the remaining 3 PP's, for an average of 1min 40sec for a full PP. This seems too high to me.
Why does it seem too high? Brad Richards does it. I'm sure some other players do it too.

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04-04-2011, 02:37 PM
  #278
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Boyle would have a fresh quackenbush next to him towards the end of his shift. Maybe I'll actually get into decimals then - I do want him staying out there longer than Pratt on occasion, and 4/7 is too low for a guy on the top pairing I think (though it's probably what top PP forwards will play)

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04-04-2011, 02:38 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Playing low even strength minutes doesn't mean Boyle won't get gassed at the end of a long powerplay shift. He's not great defensively by ATD standards to begin with, and while I see your motivation here, I do think that leaving Boyle out there for those kind of PP minutes leaves you pretty vulnerable to counterattack from strong 2nd unit PKers.
Hmm.. you might have a point, actually. Dallas is 29th in SHGA, and Richards plays 80% of PPs. That might not necessarily have anything to do with Richards specifically, though. Regardless, as long as you have a fast partner to cover for him if he gets caught giving the puck away, I think you're OK.

A certain Ottawa forward recently also played almost the entire PP against Toronto (and scored twice), but that might have been out of necessity. Granted, he also plays a ton at even strength as well.

I think you're OK as long as the guy you want to play almost the entire PP doesn't get many ES minutes (like my Liapkin). But if you're expecting a guy to play the full PP as well as 1st unit ES minutes, you're in trouble.

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04-04-2011, 02:43 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Well, it's probably more like 5.5 minutes, but I didn't want to get into decimals....

Is 1:40 on the PP too much for a guy playing easy 3rd pairing minutes at even strength? I'll see what others think.
The obvious answer is that it depends on what happens during the PP.


I would say that on those occasions that a powerplay starts out at a pretty easy tempo or without much work done by Boyle (so he gets left out there) and then suddenly for whatever reason it becomes high tempo or needs a lot of work done by him.. he'll be in trouble against the types of penalty killers available in this draft.

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04-04-2011, 02:48 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Why does it seem too high? Brad Richards does it. I'm sure some other players do it too.
For one, the Stars get more than 7min of PP time per game, and have a worse PP%, so Richards is actually playing a smaller percentage of his team's total PP time than Boyle is in the ATD situation.

Secondly, Richards is a star player in the NHL, while Boyle is a bottom pairing defenseman in the ATD.

I think around 5.25/game is more realistic

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04-04-2011, 02:52 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
For one, the Stars get more than 7min of PP time per game, and have a worse PP%, so Richards is actually playing a smaller percentage of his team's total PP time than Boyle is in the ATD situation.

Secondly, Richards is a star player in the NHL, while Boyle is a bottom pairing defenseman in the ATD.

I think around 5.25/game is more realistic
I guess you missed it. I worked it out earlier and determined that Richards receives about 80% of his team's PP time (taking into account PP% as well).

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04-04-2011, 02:54 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
OK, I'll do Brad Richards, who DOES play the point on the PP all the time:

279 PPs, 75 GP = 3.72 PP/G, 17.9% on PPs
Richards 5:19 PP TOI/G

3.72 * 2 / (1 + (0.179 / 2)) = 6.83 PP time per game = 6:50~ PP time/game

5.32 (Richards TOI/G as fraction) / 6.83 = ~78%, which is almost dead on with TDMM's thoughts on defensemen playing both PPs.
PP TOI/G Richards.

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04-04-2011, 03:18 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
OK, I'll do Brad Richards, who DOES play the point on the PP all the time:

279 PPs, 75 GP = 3.72 PP/G, 17.9% on PPs
Richards 5:19 PP TOI/G

3.72 * 2 / (1 + (0.179 / 2)) = 6.83 PP time per game = 6:50~ PP time/game

5.32 (Richards TOI/G as fraction) / 6.83 = ~78%, which is almost dead on with TDMM's thoughts on defensemen playing both PPs.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how does this take into account that the Stars PP's that result in a goal can be different time lengths?

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04-04-2011, 03:25 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but how does this take into account that the Stars PP's that result in a goal can be different time lengths?
I explained that earlier. I assume that a successful PP lasts an average of 1 minute (over a large sample size, that's how it'll work out to be).

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04-04-2011, 03:28 PM
  #286
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There is also the fact that not all PPs will last 2 minutes due to overlapping penalties. Also, a PP at the end of the period means the first unot might play the whole thing, even the forwards bit especially the defensemen.

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04-04-2011, 03:31 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There is also the fact that not all PPs will last 2 minutes due to overlapping penalties. Also, a PP at the end of the period means the first unot might play the whole thing, even the forwards bit especially the defensemen.
I would be pretty confident in saying that this encompasses less than 5 or 10% of PPs.

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04-04-2011, 04:07 PM
  #288
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My options for my second PK unit:

Mike Richards - Danny Gare
Behn Wilson - Dit Clapper

OR

Bun Cook - Mike Richards
Behn Wilson - Dit Clapper

I like the idea of having a second unit that can jump on the ice and actually be an offensive threat which is why I'm toying with the idea of Gare. Think it's suicide to actually be thinking about scoring with my second PK unit?

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Old
04-04-2011, 04:17 PM
  #289
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Dawson City Nuggets


Coach: Herb Brooks

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Glen Skov - Metro Prystai - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Steven Stamkos - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Doru Tureanu, Ray Ferraro

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Goulet-Perreault-Bossy-Machac-Wentworth

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Ciccarelli-Prystai-Pospisil

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Abel-Ludwig

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Volchenkov



Thoughts on my lineup/special teams combinations?

I realize my blueline is average at best, and won't provide much in the way of offense. But how does the rest of my team look?

Barring any changes of heart, I think my last pick is going to be an Asst. coach.

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04-04-2011, 04:19 PM
  #290
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Raleh, how often was Gare used on the PK in real life?

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04-04-2011, 04:24 PM
  #291
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Modo -

1) I really don't see what stamkos is doing on the fourth line. He is basically just a young gun with a good one-timer in an all-time sense, and his wingers aren't exactly the type of guys to set him up.

2) Dino needs to be on the first PP I think.

3) Did Skov play a regular shift ever or was he mostly just a PK specialist? I'd try to put him on the 4th lime if he was just a specialist in real life.

4) you could really use a forward who can ply the point on the PP - not sure who thatbwpuld be though.

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Old
04-04-2011, 04:39 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Modo -

1) I really don't see what stamkos is doing on the fourth line. He is basically just a young gun with a good one-timer in an all-time sense, and his wingers aren't exactly the type of guys to set him up.

2) Dino needs to be on the first PP I think.

3) Did Skov play a regular shift ever or was he mostly just a PK specialist? I'd try to put him on the 4th lime if he was just a specialist in real life.

4) you could really use a forward who can ply the point on the PP - not sure who thatbwpuld be though.
1) Yeah, like I said in the draft thread, I'm not quite sure what I want to do with Stamkos just yet....I don't see him in a top 6 role on this team, maybe he's better left as an extra.

2) Who would you remove from that line to make room for him? Bossy? Or go with 4 forwards and 1 d-man?

3) Not sure what Skov's TOI/game was, just knew he was regarded as a shutdown specialist. So I figure he'd be a solid PK guy.

4) Duly noted. Not sure who else I can add either, will do some scouting. How 'bout Stamkos?


Last edited by Modo: 04-04-2011 at 04:46 PM.
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Old
04-04-2011, 04:46 PM
  #293
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2) i would drop Goulet to second unit. I don't think it matters what side Dino lines up on, since he's just going to crowd the goalie anyway.

3) I know that for at least part of skov's career, he got basically zero even strength time and was used to kill penalties extensively. Not sure if this role changed for him though.

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04-04-2011, 04:46 PM
  #294
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I would keep Stamkos as an extra, IMO

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04-04-2011, 05:03 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
3) Did Skov play a regular shift ever or was he mostly just a PK specialist? I'd try to put him on the 4th lime if he was just a specialist in real life.
Tommy Ivan liked to match his checking line against opponents' top line, which means Skov got much more icetime than a PK-specialist. But AFAIK he was centre and not LW, and he was third best player on that line, and Pavelich was matched up against top RWs, so i'm not sure if Skov can play LW on a shutdown line.

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04-04-2011, 05:23 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post


Dawson City Nuggets


Coach: Herb Brooks

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Glen Skov - Metro Prystai - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Steven Stamkos - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Doru Tureanu, Ray Ferraro

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Goulet-Perreault-Bossy-Machac-Wentworth

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Ciccarelli-Prystai-Pospisil

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Abel-Ludwig

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Volchenkov



Thoughts on my lineup/special teams combinations?

I realize my blueline is average at best, and won't provide much in the way of offense. But how does the rest of my team look?

Barring any changes of heart, I think my last pick is going to be an Asst. coach.
***UPDATED***

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Ray Ferraro - Glen Skov - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Metro Prystai - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Doru Tureanu, Steven Stamkos

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Ciccarelli-Perreault-Bossy-Machac-Wentworth

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Goulet-Stamkos-Pospisil

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Abel-Ludwig

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Volchenkov



Better chemistry, perhaps?

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Old
04-04-2011, 05:27 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
***UPDATED***

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Ray Ferraro - Glen Skov - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Metro Prystai - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Doru Tureanu, Steven Stamkos

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Ciccarelli-Perreault-Bossy-Machac-Wentworth

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Goulet-Stamkos-Pospisil

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Abel-Ludwig

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Volchenkov



Better chemistry, perhaps?
You should write a bio on Doru Tureanu, I know he's a spare. But I'd like to learn about "The best hockey player I've never heard of"

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Old
04-04-2011, 05:32 PM
  #298
TheDevilMadeMe
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Stamkos and volchenkov can't play on special teams ifnthe are scratched

I think Skov played LW more often than Ferraro, no?

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Old
04-04-2011, 05:43 PM
  #299
Modo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stamkos and volchenkov can't play on special teams ifnthe are scratched

I think Skov played LW more often than Ferraro, no?
They can't? Damn!

Alright, will make more adjustments. Would Stammer look out of place in my top 6? Doesn't say much about my offense if I'm adding a top sixer this late, but would he fit?

And I moved Skov off LW because DoMakc regarded him more as a center....when I drafted him, he was considered both, though. Decisions, decisions.

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04-04-2011, 05:46 PM
  #300
TheDevilMadeMe
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Lehtinon can definitely play both sides. Not sure if that helps

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