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Old
03-27-2011, 07:14 PM
  #101
Nihiliste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafssss View Post
To Leafs:
Paul Stastny
- PPG Centre, Relatively young
2nd/3rd Round Pick 2012 (depending on Mac's point totals, 50+ = 2nd)

To Avs:
Clarke MacArthur
Both first rounds 2011 (BOS,PHI)
Luca Caputi
Ben Scrivens
Allow me to translate:

Schenn
Phil 1st (27-30 overall)

David Jones
Avs 2nd 2011 (32nd overall probably)
STL 1st 2012 (could potentially be higher than Bos 1st)
Kevin Porter
Calvin Pickard

How do you feel about that proposal as a Leafs fan? That's how Avs fans feel about yours

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:18 PM
  #102
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If I am Columbus I offer up...

Vermette + 1st (top 10 pick)
or
Umberger + 1st (top 10 pick) + John Moore

BOOM.

Both of these trump the leaf proposals and I am sure Avs say yes and Columbus gets a bonafide #1 guy to play with Nash.

It's either...

A) Pony up with something good

or

B) Continue to window shop

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:24 PM
  #103
HappyGilmourr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
If I am Columbus I offer up...

Vermette + 1st (top 10 pick)
or
Umberger + 1st (top 10 pick) + John Moore

BOOM.

Both of these trump the leaf proposals and I am sure Avs say yes and Columbus gets a bonafide #1 guy to play with Nash.

It's either...

A) Pony up with something good

or

B) Continue to window shop

Kadri >> Top 10 pick

Mac > Vermette

nice try

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:29 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Kadri >> Top 10 pick

Mac > Vermette

nice try


Kadri and the first round you can say is a wash, perhaps advantage Kadri. Even though he has failed to crack an NHL lineup on a consistent basis, you can see skills are present and one day he should get there. Maybe even next year.

However, Vermette is definelty better than MacArthur... before this season Mac's career high was 35... there is a chance he could be Jason Blake\Cheechoo 2.0... Vermette has been a better player consistently and for longer than MacArthur.


Last edited by Seguins Dragon*: 03-27-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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Old
03-27-2011, 07:34 PM
  #105
HappyGilmourr
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How the hell is a top 10 pick worth more then Kadri when Kadri was a 7th overall pick that is making huge strides in his development? Kadri definitely has more value then a pick in the 7-10 range and it's not even close either.

Macarthur has 56 points and Vermette is on PACE for 44 points

I question the sanity of some people on these boards...

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:41 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
If I am Columbus I offer up...

Vermette + 1st (top 10 pick)
or
Umberger + 1st (top 10 pick) + John Moore

BOOM.

Both of these trump the leaf proposals and I am sure Avs say yes and Columbus gets a bonafide #1 guy to play with Nash.

It's either...

A) Pony up with something good

or

B) Continue to window shop
I offered:
Gunnarsson
phil 1st
Bost 1st
Macarthur/Lupul
Colborne
Scrivens
Komisarek

For
Stastny

You offered

Vermette + 1st (top 10 pick)
or
Umberger + 1st (top 10 pick) + John Moore

Mac + gunnar+ scrivens> vermette/umberger + Moore
They recieve 3 needs, a top 6 forward, a minute eating young versatile d-man, and our second best goalie prospect after reimer.

Phil 1st + Bos 1st + Colborne > Columbus 1st (especially considering bob Mac said that 7-25, prospects are of the same caliber)

Komisarek was conditional. You dont have to take him but 3.5 for him isnt that big of a dump if your looking for a defensive d-man...

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:45 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
I offered:
Gunnarsson
phil 1st
Bost 1st
Macarthur/Lupul
Colborne
Scrivens
Komisarek

For
Stastny

You offered

Vermette + 1st (top 10 pick)
or
Umberger + 1st (top 10 pick) + John Moore

Mac + gunnar+ scrivens> vermette/umberger + Moore
They recieve 3 needs, a top 6 forward, a minute eating young versatile d-man, and our second best goalie prospect after reimer.

Phil 1st + Bos 1st + Colborne > Columbus 1st (especially considering bob Mac said that 7-25, prospects are of the same caliber)

Komisarek was conditional. You dont have to take him but 3.5 for him isnt that big of a dump if your looking for a defensive d-man...
I didn't see that to be honest... it's a really good offer.

You could even make it Scrivens/Colbourne because you are giving lots of depth up.

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:52 PM
  #108
ManOnTheMoon
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I might be in the minority, but I take Umberger, 1st, and Moore for Stastny all day. Better than the original offer, by far.

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:59 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon View Post
I might be in the minority, but I take Umberger, 1st, and Moore for Stastny all day. Better than the original offer, by far.
Of course. That's because Umberger can easily step in on the second line for Avs right away. There is pretty much zero question mark about his ability.

I doubt Blue Jackets would do it. It always seems to me that Umberger is very important to them.

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Old
03-27-2011, 08:30 PM
  #110
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I hate you dater

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Old
03-27-2011, 08:41 PM
  #111
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Dragon View Post
I don't know if MacArthur is better than:
Hejduk
Fleishmann
Jones
Mueller.
Hejduk no

Fleishman yes

Jones maybe

Mueller yes yes Macarthur is better then Mueller Macarthur can actually stay healthy.

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Old
03-27-2011, 09:13 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
That is what I am saying. Schenn fits current needs for the Avs. Komisarek doesn't. They aren't interchangeable.

If Avs were looking for a bottom pairing shutdown guy, they wouldn't have to trade Stastny to get one. There are loads of them to be had for free every summer.
If Schenn fits a current need for the Avs, so does Komisarek. They are very similar type and calibre of defencemen, one is excelling under Ron Wilson, the other is underachieving.

Could they get a guy like Komisarek without giving up Stastny? of course. But, what they couldnt' get is a prospect like Kadri and a first round pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post
Kadri is Ribeiro light... chances are, Kadri will be an average 2nd line center with possible 65-70 point upside.

Komisarek is junk, may as well be considered cap dump with his toxic salary.

and a first is a first.

Not enough for a young, proven NHL star.

I will give you a hint... S_henn

No Schenn, I see no reason for Aves to trade with Leafs if Leafs are unwilling to pony up, I am sure some other team could top that offer if Stastny was being traded.
Who's going to offer more to pay Stastny $6.6m? And what are they going to offer? The offers of Vermette or Umberger don't do anywhere near as much for the Avs as getting Kadri + a 1st + Komisarek, especially when you listen to Avs fans about their desire for a shutdown guy. To a team like Colorado, a prospect of Kadri's calibre is easily more valuable than any pick outside the top 5, because he's 2 years ahead in development.

Far too often, people get obsessed with #th line forward + #th pair defenceman doesn't get you #th line forward, but completely ignore the fact that isn't how deals are done. Contracts come into consideration, and at the end of the day each team does a deal because it works with what they want to accomplish.

If Colorado does not want to pay Stastny $6.6m for the next 3 years, doesn't want him blocking the development of Sean Couturier, wants to get a top prospect, first round pick, and shutdown defenceman, this goal accomplishes all of that.

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Old
03-27-2011, 09:31 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
If Schenn fits a current need for the Avs, so does Komisarek. They are very similar type and calibre of defencemen, one is excelling under Ron Wilson, the other is underachieving.

Could they get a guy like Komisarek without giving up Stastny? of course. But, what they couldnt' get is a prospect like Kadri and a first round pick.



Who's going to offer more to pay Stastny $6.6m? And what are they going to offer? The offers of Vermette or Umberger don't do anywhere near as much for the Avs as getting Kadri + a 1st + Komisarek, especially when you listen to Avs fans about their desire for a shutdown guy. To a team like Colorado, a prospect of Kadri's calibre is easily more valuable than any pick outside the top 5, because he's 2 years ahead in development.

Far too often, people get obsessed with #th line forward + #th pair defenceman doesn't get you #th line forward, but completely ignore the fact that isn't how deals are done. Contracts come into consideration, and at the end of the day each team does a deal because it works with what they want to accomplish.

If Colorado does not want to pay Stastny $6.6m for the next 3 years, doesn't want him blocking the development of Sean Couturier, wants to get a top prospect, first round pick, and shutdown defenceman, this goal accomplishes all of that.
Haha, I love this response because it is so full of funny. It's like you are trying to convince Avs fans that Stastny is some throw away and that Komisarek is some golden prize that we desperately need.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:09 PM
  #114
falconski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
If Schenn fits a current need for the Avs, so does Komisarek. They are very similar type and calibre of defencemen, one is excelling under Ron Wilson, the other is underachieving.

Could they get a guy like Komisarek without giving up Stastny? of course. But, what they couldnt' get is a prospect like Kadri and a first round pick.



Who's going to offer more to pay Stastny $6.6m? And what are they going to offer? The offers of Vermette or Umberger don't do anywhere near as much for the Avs as getting Kadri + a 1st + Komisarek, especially when you listen to Avs fans about their desire for a shutdown guy. To a team like Colorado, a prospect of Kadri's calibre is easily more valuable than any pick outside the top 5, because he's 2 years ahead in development.

Far too often, people get obsessed with #th line forward + #th pair defenceman doesn't get you #th line forward, but completely ignore the fact that isn't how deals are done. Contracts come into consideration, and at the end of the day each team does a deal because it works with what they want to accomplish.

If Colorado does not want to pay Stastny $6.6m for the next 3 years, doesn't want him blocking the development of Sean Couturier, wants to get a top prospect, first round pick, and shutdown defenceman, this goal accomplishes all of that.
this is like trying to give a team Matt Hunwick instead of Mike Greene and claim it's the same

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:14 PM
  #115
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Why does this have to be on draft day?

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
THIS.

Why are all offers spare parts offers??
I wouldn't necessarily call them spare parts, but I agree with you. Avs would want more of a package surrounded a single (+) talented player.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:19 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
If Schenn fits a current need for the Avs, so does Komisarek. They are very similar type and calibre of defencemen, one is excelling under Ron Wilson, the other is underachieving.

Could they get a guy like Komisarek without giving up Stastny? of course. But, what they couldnt' get is a prospect like Kadri and a first round pick.
I feel you misidentify role with caliber. There's no doubt Schenn and Komisarek play a similar, even identical, style of hockey. But the fact is that one is a 21 year old playing monster minutes on an improving blue line, while the other is a seasoned veteran who's essentially been walking on egg shells the entire year.

Your assertion that "if the Avs could use one, then they could use the other" may be true, but that doesn't mean both are players they'd want coming back if they moved their highest paid (and usually highest scoring) player. Luke Schenn is a core piece; Mike Komisarek is a reclamation project.

Until that's understood throughout this thread, any discussions about a potential off-season move of Stastny to Toronto aren't going to go far. If the Avs move Stastny, it will be for a Luke Schenn/Jack Johnson type defenseman, or a really good young goalie. Colorado cannot afford to gamble on upside return when moving one of their best assets.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:26 PM
  #118
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Schenn + Kadri/Bos 1st for Stastney

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:28 PM
  #119
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If stansty was to get dealt I don't think avs fans would like the return usuallu star players don't bring in as mmuch as you'd think

I mean look at the Phaneuf trade Stajan Mayers hagman white for Phaneuf Aulie sjostrom looking back the flames didn't get full value.

How about the Thorton trade

Joe Thornton for Brad stuart Marco Sturm Wayne primeu (sp?)

Dany Heatley for Milan Michleak Chechoo 2nd

Marian Hossa, dupis for Christen esposito armstrong and a 1st

Brad Richards for Jussi Jokenin, mike simth Jeff Halpern and a 4th.

now I know in the Hossa example he was a UFA but none of the other ones were and looking back on all those deals how many of them can you say got the value you thought they would considering the players involved? not many.

Based on that a deal for Stansty could proabaly look like this

To Leafs Stansty.

To Avs Kadri one of Marcarthur or Grabovoski a 1st Jesse Blacker and a 2nd or 3rd.

So thats a top prospect a 1st a top 6 forward on either C or wing depending on what you perfer a prospect and another pick

Avs fans might not like that some might but when you look back and some of the other deals that have involved star players thats proabaly close to what it would look like.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:31 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
If stansty was to get dealt I don't think avs fans would like the return usuallu star players don't bring in as mmuch as you'd think

I mean look at the Phaneuf trade Stajan Mayers hagman white for Phaneuf Aulie sjostrom looking back the flames didn't get full value.

How about the Thorton trade

Joe Thornton for Brad stuart Marco Sturm Wayne primeu (sp?)

Dany Heatley for Milan Michleak Chechoo 2nd

Marian Hossa, dupis for Christen esposito armstrong and a 1st

Brad Richards for Jussi Jokenin, mike simth Jeff Halpern and a 4th.

now I know in the Hossa example he was a UFA but none of the other ones were and looking back on all those deals how many of them can you say got the value you thought they would considering the players involved? not many.

Based on that a deal for Stansty could proabaly look like this

To Leafs Stansty.

To Avs Kadri one of Marcarthur or Grabovoski a 1st Jesse Blacker and a 2nd or 3rd.

So thats a top prospect a 1st a top 6 forward on either C or wing depending on what you perfer a prospect and another pick

Avs fans might not like that some might but when you look back and some of the other deals that have involved star players thats proabaly close to what it would look like.
or they can just not trade him for Leafs trash?

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:32 PM
  #121
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parise09 View Post
Schenn + Kadri/Bos 1st for Stastney
Schenn would not be involved Kadri would be but not Schenn

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:33 PM
  #122
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To Leafs:
Paul Stastny

To Avs:
Clarke MacArthur
1st Round Pick (BOS)
1st Round Pick (PHI)
Ben Scrivens
Andrew MacWilliam

is still the best offer suggested in this thread. The general consensus is that Scrivens is Reimer 2.0. Replaced Caputi with MacWilliam to fulfill your proposed need for young bottom pairing shutdown defenceman.

Still, when considering what better C's got in trades (Thornton, B. Richards), this offer comes off as an overpayment from the Leafs

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:34 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
Schenn would not be involved Kadri would be but not Schenn
Stastney won't be involved unless Schenn is going the other way.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:37 PM
  #124
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Still, when considering what better C's got in trades (Thornton, B. Richards), this offer comes off as an overpayment from the Leafs
And then you consider what the Avalanche got for Chris Stewart/Shattenkirk (Erik Johnson/1st), as well as that both GM's that gave up Thornton/Richards were fired shortly after each deal, it doesn't come off as overpayment.

Adding Andrew MacWilliam or Luca Caputi or Player X is essentially saying "oh, don't really need this guy, may as well throw him in". It makes the trade offer look like more of a mess than it really is.

The particular offer that you've proposed would only happen if the Bruins/Flyers made early exists in the playoffs (and even then, it's highly unlikely). Clarke MacArthur isn't enough of a long term piece of the Avs to move Stastny in a deal built around him.

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Old
03-27-2011, 10:51 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Luke View Post
To Leafs:
Paul Stastny

To Avs:
Clarke MacArthur
1st Round Pick (BOS)
1st Round Pick (PHI)
Ben Scrivens
Andrew MacWilliam

is still the best offer suggested in this thread. The general consensus is that Scrivens is Reimer 2.0. Replaced Caputi with MacWilliam to fulfill your proposed need for young bottom pairing shutdown defenceman.

Still, when considering what better C's got in trades (Thornton, B. Richards), this offer comes off as an overpayment from the Leafs
it's top pairing shutdown defensemen we need, not bottom pairing...we have 2 guys named Ryan (O'Byrne and Wilson) on our blue line that can fill the bottom pairing shutdown role fine.

which still goes with if Stastny is traded to Toronto, Schenn's coming back

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