HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-29-2011, 07:52 PM
  #251
PitbulI
Registered User
 
PitbulI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
So.... does anybody have anything new to say?

Phoenix bad market. Relocation good.

Canada evil. Hockey will thrive in the desert if A,B,C and D happen. It has become rather silly at this point, IMO.

The truth is, no one knows what is going to happen and very little about the business side of hockey can be discussed in this thread because there is very little new information.

I'm going to go to the hockey game tonight to hopefully see a Phoenix Coyote/Winnipeg Jet win that will secure a playoff spot. Peace out all.
Looking at the standing, it won't secure a playoff spot but barring a major slump combined with 9th/10th place going on an improbable win streak, the Coyotes are in the post season.

I have to say this. No matter who buys the Coyotes, they're getting a good team.

PitbulI is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 07:56 PM
  #252
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
1.) Self Made
2.) Has to have a good product on the ice or his venture fails miserably

Pretty safe bet to say he will keep Phoenix competitive. Every day that passes in this fiasco is another day Bryzgalov isn't signed to an extension. He is probably the only reason the Coyotes are staying, actually.
Was the sale to Hulsizer announced today? bonds sold, GWI backed off?

blues10 is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:08 PM
  #253
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,277
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Wouldn't it be wild if the Yotes won the Cup this year and ended up in Winnipeg? What a slap in the face. The NHL loses the Phoenix market, and every owner in the league helped fund a team that beat them all? What a story.

Retail1LO is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:16 PM
  #254
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
So.... does anybody have anything new to say?

Phoenix bad market. Relocation good.

Canada evil. Hockey will thrive in the desert if A,B,C and D happen. It has become rather silly at this point, IMO.

The truth is, no one knows what is going to happen and very little about the business side of hockey can be discussed in this thread because there is very little new information.

I'm going to go to the hockey game tonight to hopefully see a Phoenix Coyote/Winnipeg Jet win that will secure a playoff spot. Peace out all.
Have a good time at the game, Goyotes. Wish I were you! Nanu Nanu!

Mork is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:23 PM
  #255
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
Wouldn't it be wild if the Yotes won the Cup this year and ended up in Winnipeg? What a slap in the face. The NHL loses the Phoenix market, and every owner in the league helped fund a team that beat them all? What a story.
Or worse yet, a repeat of the QC-Colorado Cup Win ('s). 72hrs notice their teams gone; 12mnths later their team in another city hoists the SC.

Killion is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:26 PM
  #256
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,277
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
I was JUST going to comment on that. That would be somethin' else. Can you imagine if a league owned team, moves to CANADA...then wins a cup??? My goodness. I'd pay to see it.

Retail1LO is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:30 PM
  #257
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
When Glendale refused Balsillie's $50-million offer I expected the NHL would demand a very incentive-laden deal on behalf of a new owner to keep the team at jobing.com. I think the reasons almost don't matter now, because it looks more and more likely that the deal won't fly. We'll probably never know what would have happened if push had come to shove.

I do wonder if a bit more reasonable approach on all sides could have made something work: Glendale with Moyes; the NHL with Hulsizer; Hulsizer with Glendale; and, yes, Goldwater with Glendale. I work with conflict every day, as do so many other posters on this board, and when there is no give and take a train wreck is almost always the most predictable result.

Having mulled over the various respones to my last post. . .


Last edited by Mork: 03-29-2011 at 08:58 PM.
Mork is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 08:41 PM
  #258
WpgJets
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
When Glendale refused Balsillie's $50-million offer I expected the NHL would demand a very incentive-laden deal on behalf of a new owner to keep the team at jobing.com. I think the reason's almost don't matter now, because it looks more and more likely that the deal won't fly. We'll probably never know what would have happened if push had come to shove.

I do wonder if a bit more reasonable approach on all sides could have made something work: Glendale with Moyes; the NHL with Hulsizer; Hulsizer with Glendale; and, yes, Goldwater with Glendale. I work with conflict every day, as do so many other posters on this board, and when there is no give and take a train wreck is almost always the most predictable result.

Having mulled over the various respones to my last post. . .
i hope you meant 250 million, well when you piss off the commissioner of the NHL in where your wanting to buy a franchise from your kinda screwed from the ankles and up. Balsillie would of done better if certain things were changed.

WpgJets is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 09:27 PM
  #259
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
I get the feeling the ship has sailed on this one. Does anyone else share that sentiment?

IMHO, the NHL and Hulsizer just pushed too hard on Glendale to reach a workable agreement. If they had made a less one-sided deal, it would have had a better chance of getting off the ground. Glendale was at too much of a disadvantage. Dare I say its business partners were much too greedy?

If it is the case that Hulsizer would have merely shifted to Glendale some of the business risks that he himself would not accept, with Glendale paying a higher-than-market price that no other purchaser would pay, then I wouldn't like the chances of Glendale successfully defending this transaction in court. I think the courts would look at the substance over the form of the transactions, and at the purpose of the legislation without getting too wrapped up in the syntax of previous court decisions. I found the railway analogies very relevant and persuasive in sorting out my thoughts on this. However, I am also much too wrapped up in the outcome to give any objective analysis, and I will be looking forward to a team returning to Winnipeg if that is the ultimate result.

This is what it feels like waiting for the jury to return with its verdict: all the evidence is in; all the arguments have been made; everything there is to say has been said; and you think you know what's going to happen but you're never really sure. Then, when it does happen, it's all so utterly anticlimactic.

Cheers, everyone!

Mork is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 09:34 PM
  #260
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
That and about 40 ounces of single malt. Of course, I can rarely find my car keys let alone the car much past noon.
That single malt and a good sauna would hit the spot now. With a few beer chasers, and a roll in the snow or a dip in the lake. That would get the creative juices flowing again to write the saga of the Desert Dogs . . . good luck to whoever takes that on! (It won't be me.)

Mork is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 09:54 PM
  #261
peter sullivan
Winnipeg
 
peter sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitbulI View Post
I have to say this. No matter who buys the Coyotes, they're getting a good team.
if they cant sign the key free agents they wont (bryzgalov)....if this team moves to winnipeg, it will not be the same team next season.

my personal guess is that they do have a buyer for the bonds at a rate that they will pay, but they would rather try and get it lower.....the NHL has told them they have until some specified date to sell them, so they are waiting out the storm hoping time changes things....if it doesn't, so be it...but if it does then the wait was worth it.

they have waited this long, there is nothing to gain by selling the bonds now if they have a buyer lined up....lay low and fire out a few PR salvos to see if any of them can sink GWI's battleship...

this is why the NHL is so quiet...if they know its done by a specified date, they can move on to other business.

just my guess.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 03-29-2011 at 10:12 PM. Reason: not needed
peter sullivan is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 09:59 PM
  #262
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgJets View Post
i hope you meant 250 million...
The poster may have been referring to Balsillie's offer to cut CoG a check for $50M even if he wasn't allowed to buy/move the team, if they'd nod his bankruptcy purchase.

It was one hell of an offer...

 
Old
03-29-2011, 10:10 PM
  #263
OthmarAmmann
Money making machine
 
OthmarAmmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The poster may have been referring to Balsillie's offer to cut CoG a check for $50M even if he wasn't allowed to buy/move the team, if they'd nod his bankruptcy purchase.

It was one hell of an offer...
A testament to the value of the parking rights of Copps Coliseum.

OthmarAmmann is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 10:12 PM
  #264
WJG
Running and Rioting
 
WJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 13,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
I get the feeling the ship has sailed on this one. Does anyone else share that sentiment?
I do.

I think the game is over, but the NHL recognizes that there's no point in announcing relocation of the team until after the playoffs. At least that way they can make up for some of 40 million in losses this year.

If things stay the status quo until the team leaves, it will end exactly the way the NHL wanted all along in terms of optics:

-GWI is painted as the villain; the sole reason the Coyotes could not stay in Glendale
-MH is seen as a hero for going above and beyond what he was willing to do to buy the team and for his commitment to Glendale.
-COG is seen as doing the best they could have done in a bad situation.
-Bettman and the NHL are seen as fighting long and hard for Phoenix, leaving the door open to re-exploration of the Phoenix market again the future.

WJG is offline  
Old
03-29-2011, 10:53 PM
  #265
crazed323
Registered User
 
crazed323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I do.

I think the game is over, but the NHL recognizes that there's no point in announcing relocation of the team until after the playoffs. At least that way they can make up for some of 40 million in losses this year.

If things stay the status quo until the team leaves, it will end exactly the way the NHL wanted all along in terms of optics:

-GWI is painted as the villain; the sole reason the Coyotes could not stay in Glendale
-MH is seen as a hero for going above and beyond what he was willing to do to buy the team and for his commitment to Glendale.
-COG is seen as doing the best they could have done in a bad situation.
-Bettman and the NHL are seen as fighting long and hard for Phoenix, leaving the door open to re-exploration of the Phoenix market again the future.
I concur. I definately feel and have felt since MH's letter to GWI that all that remains to this is saving face and waiting until the most opportune time for a decision (announcement).

While I will acknowledge that if they do have a buyer lined up they don't have much to lose by trying to wait things out. However, they could possibly have more to gain by selling them now. I'm thinking about increased ticket sales and productivity within the organization that would come from announcing the sale of the bonds. Players are probably more relaxed, the fans are more excited about the possibility of the team staying. Possibly leading to more confidence from the players etc.

The NHL also gains by getting them sold earlier. Think about Atlanta. If they could focus on them they could possibly help along a sale to local interests there. Everyday this goes on more and more people start to believe that the deal isn't going to work. No one has anything to gain from that.

crazed323 is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 12:21 AM
  #266
davemac1313
Registered User
 
davemac1313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Keewatin, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 524
vCash: 500
From what I am reading, it appears the Fiesta Bowl/Grant Woods controversy is adding additional concern to the Coyotes deal and that his and McCains endorsement of the deal has now raised eyebrows. Is this just the media play or would this actually translate into another nail in the coffin for this deal?

davemac1313 is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 12:25 AM
  #267
WJG
Running and Rioting
 
WJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 13,234
vCash: 500
Brad Richards and Brenden Morrow add their thoughts:

Quote:
“As players, we want to be as successful as we can, because of the revenue sharing,” Stars captain Brad Richards said, Tuesday. “So if it’s an empty building or it’s not working in a city, we’re always asking why and how can we make it better."

“We’ve talked about it as players many times. As a union, you never want to see a team be in trouble, or leave. But for the good of the game, if that’s the direction it has to go ... you never want to not have a team in a city that could support it.”

Richards, who’s from P.E.I., figures Winnipeg probably could. At least, the building would usually be full.

So as much as he and his teammates love visiting Phoenix in the winter, going to Winnipeg instead wouldn’t bother him in the least.
Quote:
Stars forward Brenden Morrow, a product of Carlyle, Sask., agrees.

“If the team’s losing money, the franchise isn’t having success, hasn’t for a number of years, maybe it is time for it to move,” Morrow said. “But we never like to see teams leave cities. And Phoenix is a nice destination to come. But if there’s a better alternative, a team that will have success and make a profit, the players are understanding and want to see a change.”
http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/co.../17802551.html

WJG is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 12:27 AM
  #268
AllByDesign
Thomas who?
 
AllByDesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Location, Location!
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I posted this quote earlier but it bears repeating & consideration as to me its content speaks volumes....;

"I dont need the COG's credit to buy the franchise".
Matthew Hulsizer

Sir, you very actions', in every single solitary way indicate otherwise. By any modicum of common sense & measurement this act is beyond being tiresome. The very rich do not engage in braggadocio, making empty & disingenuous promises. Your eyes exceed you grasp.
I disagree. He doesn't need the COG's credit to buy the franchise. He, however, has no interest of financing his losses over the next five years while he executes his plan to turn things around. Whether he has the means to bankroll the losses or not, he has clearly shown no quarter on backing away from the template.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Do you think that Jerry Moyes would have accepted the arena management fee and terms and stuck around? Remember that he gave up after they couldn't get more concessions of Glendale.
It is a shame that it was never made public, as to what the tipping point was that made Jerry walk. None of our business I am sure, but to go from having a deal in principle to a grenade being detonated sure would have some intersting discussion in looking at MH's deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
I get the feeling the ship has sailed on this one. Does anyone else share that sentiment?
I don't. I have a very strong feeling this deal will get done. I of course have no logic to back up my feelings... but that's never stopped me before!

AllByDesign is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 01:22 AM
  #269
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
 
MAROONSRoad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Maroons Rd.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,069
vCash: 500
Wasn't Tuesday the day GWI was supposed to get back to MH? And no news about that? Nothing?

GHOST

MAROONSRoad is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 02:02 AM
  #270
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
I have a very strong feeling this deal will get done.
You know this how?. The actual evidence orbits in a diametrically opposed rotation to such a supposition. I want Tangible evidence, not the Tantric variety you seem to be selling here; a souvenir of feelings you brought back from some Parallel Universe you visited on your Astral Travels.

Killion is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 02:13 AM
  #271
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 23,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
Wasn't Tuesday the day GWI was supposed to get back to MH? And no news about that? Nothing?GHOST
Oh, Im sure we'll be hearing about that fairly shortly. Have you or anyone else checked the GW site?. I couldnt fint anything. They were supposedly preparing a written report on his offer to guarantee the shortages, should they occur of course, on the debt service charges pursuant to the Bonds. I would expect GW would make that public, though they may not make haste in meeting todays date to furnish him with it.

Killion is offline  
Old
03-30-2011, 04:05 AM
  #272
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Oh, Im sure we'll be hearing about that fairly shortly. Have you or anyone else checked the GW site?. I couldnt fint anything. They were supposedly preparing a written report on his offer to guarantee the shortages, should they occur of course, on the debt service charges pursuant to the Bonds. I would expect GW would make that public, though they may not make haste in meeting todays date to furnish him with it.
Yah, I'm sure that the GWI lawyers are busy poring over the page of document that Hulsizer dumped on them 10 days ago. They are still trying to figure out what he meant, and having internal debates about whether they should use the term "guaranty" in some of their legal documents.

Whileee is online now  
Old
03-30-2011, 04:22 AM
  #273
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
You know this how?. The actual evidence orbits in a diametrically opposed rotation to such a supposition. I want Tangible evidence, not the Tantric variety you seem to be selling here; a souvenir of feelings you brought back from some Parallel Universe you visited on your Astral Travels.
I'm not sure if this deal will ever get done, but here's why I think it might (Killion, you're going to hate this).

I'm reading between the lines on the NHL's public discourse about the Coyotes and Thrashers, and find an unmistakable preference for the Coyotes. Anytime there is some apocalyptic statement out of Atlanta, Daly or Bettman shrug and say things like "for some reason, Atlanta seems to be a tough sports market". Meanwhile, the ASG folks are running down the school halls pulling all the fire alarms, and are now poised to sell the Thrashers to the highest bidder. The media is all over rumors of a sale and relocation to Winnipeg, but nary a firm statement of denial from the NHL head offices, other than a few soporific platitudes about wanting to stay in current markets.

Meanwhile, down in Glendale, Daly and Bettman are showing up at freakin' city council meetings with the likes of our avuncular councilman Lieberman, jaws set, steely-blue determination in their eyes.

They can't lose both Atlanta and Phoenix in the same year, and I am not sure that they can save both. For whatever zany reason (insert conspiracy theories here), they seem to be dead-set on Phoenix.

Well, you might ask, how could they possibly do a deal. Well, one way would be for the NHL to make a dramatic gesture by lowering the purchase cost. How can they afford this? By extracting a handsome relocation fee from whoever purchases Atlanta, of course. I expect that if the NHL threw $40-50 million into the pot for the Phoenix deal, it might ease things along.

Of course, the above is strictly a myth (in the Socratic sense), but it would explain a lot of strange doings with the NHL.

Whileee is online now  
Old
03-30-2011, 04:40 AM
  #274
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
In an unrelated matter, Woods finds no evidence of wrongdoing in another matter, which is now subject to further investigation and possible prosecution.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz1I1IcUt6I

GHOST
I just read through the article. Suffice to say, it would probably be in the COG's best interest not to have Grant Woods front and center of their anti-Goldwater PR campaign hereafter.

Whileee is online now  
Old
03-30-2011, 06:18 AM
  #275
OthmarAmmann
Money making machine
 
OthmarAmmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
In an unrelated matter, Woods finds no evidence of wrongdoing in another matter, which is now subject to further investigation and possible prosecution.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz1I1IcUt6I

GHOST
Quote:
Bill Hancock, executive director of the Bowl Championship Series, said the Fiesta Bowl could be removed from the elite group that hosts a national championship game every four years.
That wouldn't be good for parking

OthmarAmmann is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.