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RW Valeri Nichushkin - Chelyabinsk, KHL (2013, 10th overall, Dallas)

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Old
11-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #126
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lets have a look

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11-17-2012, 11:08 AM
  #127
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Really impressed by him in the subway series.

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11-17-2012, 12:57 PM
  #128
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whats the difference how good he is. where is the points one may ask

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11-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
well even sadder is best of CSKA's 97's being lured away from home to some midget Canadian leagues....some left a year ago, some a rebeing worked on to leave (Kashtanov primarily a rising star) This has got to stop and will stop. a lot of things I don't like about medvedev/efimov, but one thing is certain, they are TRYING to keep our prospects from wasting away the talent.
Who is doing the luring? Their agents? Who? Who benefits from destroying the careers of the most promising Russian players?

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11-17-2012, 02:28 PM
  #130
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Saw some new posts in the Nichushkin thread so I was hoping I'd be able to read more impressions of his subway series performance. Instead I have to read yet another series of posts about Russians coming to NA to develop vs. staying in Russia. Seriously, please put your agendas aside and talk about the player.
This should be discussed here if there is even a remote chance of Nichushkin leaving Russia too early. It will ruin him, mark my works. It will ruin him.

This topic cannot be discussed too much because this is one of the biggest problems of Russian hockey right now. Canadian junior leagues have ruined dozens of Russian hockey players. Russian hockey ends up losing players that would otherwise benefit their national team. As cska78 said THIS HAS TO STOP. I don't want to see any Russian player to play in the CHL ever again.

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11-17-2012, 02:31 PM
  #131
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I see Stanislav Galiev is playing in the ECHL right now. Wasn't he supposed to be as talented as Kuznetsov? He choose the North American route for his development. Too bad for him.

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11-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #132
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This should be discussed here if there is even a remote chance of Nichushkin leaving Russia too early. It will ruin him, mark my works. It will ruin him.

This topic cannot be discussed too much because this is one of the biggest problems of Russian hockey right now. Canadian junior leagues have ruined dozens of Russian hockey players. Russian hockey ends up losing players that would otherwise benefit their national team. As cska78 said THIS HAS TO STOP. I don't want to see any Russian player to play in the CHL ever again.
But everyone knows your song and dance, so why does it even need to be said? It has nothing to do with Nichushkin as a prospect right now and your views will not have any impact on what he ultimately decides to do.

I don't want to put you and a number of other Russian posters on ignore because I do actually want to read your insight about the players themselves from time to time, particularly with players in the Russian leagues. But there comes a point where I would prefer to have you on ignore if all I read is this jingoistic crap.

I feel the same with the major junior vs. college route banter, by the way.

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11-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #133
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Maybe these Russian kids come to North America because they see only 24 Russians played in the NHL last year and want to try to raise their chances instead of being career KHLers.

I've liked Nichuskin, too bad he wouldnt come to a Canadian junior league so he can learn how to play on the small ice and become a better NHLer because of it

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11-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
had he been a Canadian, top-3 selection, the guy is a wall and a future star-shut down d-man, too bad they all keep making this mistake leaving to NA.
The guy is a talent forsure. Top 3 no way.

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11-17-2012, 04:51 PM
  #135
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The guy is a talent forsure. Top 3 no way.
Biased aside, top 5 would be reasonable IMO .

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11-17-2012, 05:13 PM
  #136
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Biased aside, top 5 would be reasonable IMO .
I can't see a guy whom projects to be a shutdown dman going in the top 5 of a draft like this one. Last year maybe.

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11-17-2012, 05:32 PM
  #137
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I can't see a guy whom projects to be a shutdown dman going in the top 5 of a draft like this one. Last year maybe.
Really? I think he projects to be a 2-way defensemen. And even if he does develop into an elite defensive defensemen, I think a team would take him. Sort of like Karl Alzner, but who knows.

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11-17-2012, 05:39 PM
  #138
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Maybe these Russian kids come to North America because they see only 24 Russians played in the NHL last year and want to try to raise their chances instead of being career KHLers.
How does going to the CHL increase their chances of becoming NHL'ers?

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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I've liked Nichuskin, too bad he wouldnt come to a Canadian junior league so he can learn how to play on the small ice and become a better NHLer because of it
Too bad Malkin and Datsyuk never came to the CHL or North America to play junior hockey. They should have followed the example of Stanislav Galiev and Kirill Kabanov.

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11-17-2012, 05:51 PM
  #139
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How does going to the CHL increase their chances of becoming NHL'ers?


Too bad Malkin and Datsyuk never came to the CHL or North America to play junior hockey. They should have followed the example of Stanislav Galiev and Kirill Kabanov.
I didnt realize that Galiev and Kabonov were busts? Seems theyre still pretty young.

Kabanovs head, not his talent level are what hold him back

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11-17-2012, 06:19 PM
  #140
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Really? I think he projects to be a 2-way defensemen. And even if he does develop into an elite defensive defensemen, I think a team would take him. Sort of like Karl Alzner, but who knows.
Any chance you and other Russian supporters would make a top ten?

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11-17-2012, 06:43 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
How does going to the CHL increase their chances of becoming NHL'ers?


Too bad Malkin and Datsyuk never came to the CHL or North America to play junior hockey. They should have followed the example of Stanislav Galiev and Kirill Kabanov.
Malkin came over at 20, Kovalchuk came over at 18, Ovechkin came over at 20, Radulov came over to play in the Q before being drafted, these guys all turned into some of the best Russian players on the planet "despite" coming to North America early in their careers. The trend of top Russian prospects coming to the CHL in large numbers is a pretty recent one, it's too early to say how it'll work out for them. Personally I think guys like Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Kulikov, Grigorenko, Burmistrov, etc. are going to turn out quite well, but we'll just have to wait and see. For some Russians the CHL is probably a good choice, for others developing in Russia could be the better it's probably a better choice, it really depends on the player.

Nichushkin is currently playing in Russia, and will likely continue to do so for the next couple years (at least), so he'd be taking a similar path to guys like Malkin and Ovechkin (assuming he comes to the NHL at all). I don't see how your CHL rant really applies to him, has there been any indication that he'll play in the CHL?

Also, your logic is horribly flawed in the first place. The vast majority of players taken in the NHL entry draft will never become impact NHL players, regardless of nationality. The fact that plenty of Russian prospects are taken in the NHL draft, but fail to make it in the NHL really means nothing. That's the norm for any prospect, not just Russians. Some of the biggest Russian stars came over to North America when they were 17-20, so again, I don't really get your point.

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Old
11-18-2012, 02:03 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
Any chance you and other Russian supporters would make a top ten?
1. Mackinnon
2. Jones
3. Barkov
4. Drouin
5. Zadarov
6. Monohan
7. Ristolainen
8.Shinkaruk
9.Pulock
10. Lindholm
11. Lazar
12. Nichushkin
13. Nurse
14. Burakowsky
15. Lehkonen

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11-18-2012, 04:01 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by thrillhous View Post
But everyone knows your song and dance, so why does it even need to be said? It has nothing to do with Nichushkin as a prospect right now and your views will not have any impact on what he ultimately decides to do.

I don't want to put you and a number of other Russian posters on ignore because I do actually want to read your insight about the players themselves from time to time, particularly with players in the Russian leagues. But there comes a point where I would prefer to have you on ignore if all I read is this jingoistic crap.

I feel the same with the major junior vs. college route banter, by the way.
If I have understood correctly, the poster you were quoting is not even Russian but a Finnish Russophile and a disturbingly passionate one at that. But yes indeed, it's same old song every single time
and it has gotten so very tiring so I totally get your point.

Obviously something is making these guys want to leave so perhaps it's not all so wonderful to play back in mother Russia as these posters make it out to be. Blaming it all on agents or even questioning the players IQ just seems incredibly arrogant to me.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:15 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure View Post
1. Mackinnon
2. Jones
3. Barkov
4. Drouin
5. Zadarov
6. Monohan
7. Ristolainen
8.Shinkaruk
9.Pulock
10. Lindholm
11. Lazar
12. Nichushkin
13. Nurse
14. Burakowsky
15. Lehkonen
There's no way Zadorov is higher than Monahan. I've seen both play a fair bit and Zadorov has very little offensive upside. Great physical and defensive play, but shutdown Dmen dont go that early in the draft unless they are exceptional (ie. Alzner, Gudbranson)

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11-18-2012, 04:50 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure View Post
1. Mackinnon
2. Jones
3. Barkov
4. Drouin
5. Zadarov
6. Monohan
7. Ristolainen
8.Shinkaruk
9.Pulock
10. Lindholm
11. Lazar
12. Nichushkin
13. Nurse
14. Burakowsky
15. Lehkonen
Zadorov higher then Monahan and Lindholm? Lindholm only at 10? Erne not even in the Top 15?

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11-18-2012, 05:33 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
If I have understood correctly, the poster you were quoting is not even Russian but a Finnish Russophile and a disturbingly passionate one at that. But yes indeed, it's same old song every single time
and it has gotten so very tiring so I totally get your point.

Obviously something is making these guys want to leave so perhaps it's not all so wonderful to play back in mother Russia as these posters make it out to be. Blaming it all on agents or even questioning the players IQ just seems incredibly arrogant to me.

This has nothing to do with things being bad in Russia.....players leave because of the Russian factor. Actually, the existence of a Russian factor means things are pretty good in Russia; especially if NHL GMs are worried whether kids will commit to the NHL.
But nowadays it's almost a prerequisite that kids must play NA juniors to go higher in the NHL draft, or even to be drafted at all (look at Slepyshev).

So on one hand agents are correct, but agents also embellish the situation for their own benefit.

Edit: I remember (I think it was) Kabanov talking about this. While the NHL is his dream, he also said he fell for the 'grass is always greener' shtick that was constantly being fed to him.


Last edited by Zine: 11-18-2012 at 05:52 AM.
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Old
11-18-2012, 07:22 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Malkin came over at 20, Kovalchuk came over at 18, Ovechkin came over at 20, Radulov came over to play in the Q before being drafted, these guys all turned into some of the best Russian players on the planet "despite" coming to North America early in their careers. .
There's a gigantic difference between coming over at 16/17 out of MHL than there is coming over at 19/20 out of RSL and KHL.

Those top stars are a poor example, since they all established themselves as solid roster players in RSL/KHL - Kovy, Ovi, Malkin and Radulov are exceptional talents and don't represent an average player at all.

A lot of Russian fans and experts are trying to say exactly that- get established in KHL and ONLY THEN go to NHL for the best chance / roster spot on NHL team (Tarasenko, Orlov). And if you look at Russian NHLers who are solid locks in the lineup these days- most of them have done exactly that.

Only Burmistrov and Kulikov are solid yet relatively average players out of CHL.

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11-18-2012, 11:51 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
There's no way Zadorov is higher than Monahan. I've seen both play a fair bit and Zadorov has very little offensive upside. Great physical and defensive play, but shutdown Dmen dont go that early in the draft unless they are exceptional (ie. Alzner, Gudbranson)
Well I think Zadarov is exceptional. I watch Monohan a lot. He is a great player, and is really benefitting from playing in his 3rd year in the O already. This is Zadarovs first.

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11-18-2012, 11:52 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
Zadorov higher then Monahan and Lindholm? Lindholm only at 10? Erne not even in the Top 15?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

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11-18-2012, 02:35 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
top end? Dikushin (stupid for moving to NA), Vorobiev (see dikushin), Lisov, Ilyin, Serbrennyakov (see dikushin), Barbashev (see dikushin), Zykov (see dikushin), Tolchinskiy (see Dikushin) just can't name all of them out of the top of my head, but there's a lot of good talent there, just look up the team that won the worl-challenger in Canada last year.
Instead of blaming these players, and their families, for being "stupid" for leaving Russia, maybe you should instead heap some blame at the FHR.

For whatever reason, the livelihood of these players is so poor that they opt to leave. Do you think it's easy to just pack up and leave? Leaving your family and friends behind?

I think there is a clear incentive-based problem here, which Russian hockey authorities are not addressing properly. Instead of blaming the players, change the incentives. Support the players better so that they can be happy.

Your attitude stinks and I am probably not far off in supposing that it's a reflection on many Russians.

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