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Old
03-28-2011, 01:02 PM
  #51
Nickolopolous
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Originally Posted by Captain Luke View Post
Isn't the sharpest tool in the shed though.

At least he's got heart
I'm curious, what leads you to believe he's not "the sharpest took?" Is it because he pauses and thinks about his responses before giving them to the media? I can't think of anything, other than you wanted to post something.

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03-28-2011, 01:06 PM
  #52
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The only times Phaneuf has been bad defensively is on long shifts where he couldn't change due to the puck being turned over, and he wasn't the one turning it over.

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03-28-2011, 01:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
Aulie has done a very good job in that pairing as well to his credit and could very well be Chara 2.0 in a few years. Only time will tell
Not having a defenceman like Phaneuf to pair with a young defenceman like Aulie has been a hole in the team since the lockout. With regard to Aulie I'd like to know why he slipped to the 4th round in the 2007 draft which didn't have a lot of depth overall.

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03-28-2011, 01:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
To be fair, I have noticed when people say "..he lost his man in front..", I see the play and think "...he was too slow covering for his partner, whose man was let loose in front".

Point being, most posters here have limited experience with dynamic defenses that exist in hockey and basketball. These games are not played in a strict man-to-man and more often than not, the culprit in a defensive breakdown is not as obvious as you would think.

Phaneuf is fine covering his own zone but is not as good at covering for his partners mistakes, that's okay because he is not known for his defensive play anyways. He is far from a liability and in terms of defensive play, I would put him as above average although not elite.
I agree somewhat. Defencemen really only have two responsibities - the backboards and in front of the net. He is solid on the backboards. But in front of the net, he becomes entranced by the puck and loses awareness of who is around the net. This disables him when it comes to neutralizing rebounds and controlling sticks. When I say losing his man, I mean losing awareness of who he is responsible for in defensive coverage when around the net. But yeah, he isn't bad defensively. By no means is he TML's best defensive player.

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03-28-2011, 01:16 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Not having a defenceman like Phaneuf to pair with a young defenceman like Aulie has been a hole in the team since the lockout. With regard to Aulie I'd like to know why he slipped to the 4th round in the 2007 draft which didn't have a lot of depth overall.
I'd like to know why Nick Lidstrom slipped to the third round.

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03-28-2011, 01:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
I'd like to know why Nick Lidstrom slipped to the third round.
Less teams in the league so rounds were smaller, and European scouting wasn't as big then, guys like Kaberle falling to like the 6th-7th round.

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03-28-2011, 01:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Not having a defenceman like Phaneuf to pair with a young defenceman like Aulie has been a hole in the team since the lockout. With regard to Aulie I'd like to know why he slipped to the 4th round in the 2007 draft which didn't have a lot of depth overall.
Aulie is NOT a #2 defenceman...not yet. Fans who believe this are delusional. He has looked anything but spectacular. I'd say he has not looked out of place being in the NHL but if the team has aspirations of being a playoff team they will have to find Phaneuf a true #2 NHL defenceman. How many fans thought "Bozie" was going to excel this season as Kessel's setup man? FAIL.

Aulie looks good for the future but fans tend to get carried away...he has been steady..not Calder trophy worthy and not #2 pairing worthy either. A position of circumstance more than anything.

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03-28-2011, 01:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Not having a defenceman like Phaneuf to pair with a young defenceman like Aulie has been a hole in the team since the lockout. With regard to Aulie I'd like to know why he slipped to the 4th round in the 2007 draft which didn't have a lot of depth overall.
I have no clue. Maybe has to do with his size in terms of being able to skate effectively. Chara went in the 3rd round as a comparison.

Where you were drafted is meaningless 3+ yrs later though so w/e

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03-28-2011, 01:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Not having a defenceman like Phaneuf to pair with a young defenceman like Aulie has been a hole in the team since the lockout. With regard to Aulie I'd like to know why he slipped to the 4th round in the 2007 draft which didn't have a lot of depth overall.
He had issues with co-ordination, given his massive size, but since draft, he has grown into his body and has been able to control it well. In addition, he used to be awful with handling the puck. Calgary told him he had to improve this before jumping to the NHL. But that has improved quite a bit as well. And outside of the top 30, the details of prospects are rather limited. Its a guessing game outside of the top 50, its all a guessing game.

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03-28-2011, 01:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
Less teams in the league so rounds were smaller, and European scouting wasn't as big then, guys like Kaberle falling to like the 6th-7th round.
He was still selected at the end of what would now be the second round. And coming scouting in Scandinavia was certainly picking up by 89. Scouts were traveling around Sweden following this Mats kid, and a lot took notice of Lidstrom too.

Anyway, the point is that Aulie is good, we knew he'd be good. He slipped, that happens, it is never indicative of talent. I'm shocked that moose could get 30,000 posts on HFBoards and still use draft selection as a way to discredit a player.

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03-28-2011, 01:25 PM
  #61
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Aulie is NOT a #2 defenceman...not yet. Fans who believe this are delusional. He has looked anything but spectacular. I'd say he has not looked out of place being in the NHL but if the team has aspirations of being a playoff team they will have to find Phaneuf a true #2 NHL defenceman. How many fans thought "Bozie" was going to excel this season as Kessel's setup man? FAIL.

Aulie looks good for the future but fans tend to get carried away...he has been steady..not Calder trophy worthy and not #2 pairing worthy either. A position of circumstance more than anything.
I disagree.

His presence has been a significant factor in stabalizing the teams back end. He has shown a lack of experience from time to time but in general, has used his size and awareness to good advantage.

They do not have to go find a #2 defensmen, they have a few youngsters lining up for tryouts for next season.

I know it is easy to get sold on the bright lights of big names but sometimes you have to develop from within and create your own good players that eventually everyone else in the league will look at and say..

"Wow, how did he slip into the 4th round.."

Like a large amount of significant defensmen in the league...

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03-28-2011, 01:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I disagree.

His presence has been a significant factor in stabalizing the teams back end. He has shown a lack of experience from time to time but in general, has used his size and awareness to good advantage.

They do not have to go find a #2 defensmen, they have a few youngsters lining up for tryouts for next season.

I know it is easy to get sold on the bright lights of big names but sometimes you have to develop from within and create your own good players that eventually everyone else in the league will look at and say..

"Wow, how did he slip into the 4th round.."

Like a large amount of significant defensmen in the league...
Agreed.

I also think people focus too much on "#1 defenceman" or "#3 center", arbitrary positional numbers. It's a great designation when sorting through hundreds of players and prospects. But when it comes down to it, we need defensive pairs that complement one another and function together. If you find a great partnership, that partnership in itself can make you look much better than your pre-defined designation that was given to you when you were being scouted.

Did I think Gunnar would play as well as he is right now? No. But he has a great partnership with Schenn. They function well together. Their games complement one another well. This pairing has made them both look very good.

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03-28-2011, 01:35 PM
  #63
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Chara didn't become the Chara he is now till he was 25. Aulie is 21 and he's already doing pretty good, I'm not saying that Aulie would ever become a Chara type defenseman, but Aulie will be a great top 2 defenseman in his prime.

I don't know what Sutter was smoking when he gave up Aulie and Phaneuf. Whatever it was, we need to send some to the Avalanche to get Stastny.

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03-28-2011, 01:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Chara didn't become the Chara he is now till he was 25. Aulie is 21 and he's already doing pretty good, I'm not saying that Aulie would ever become a Chara type defenseman, but Aulie will be a great top 2 defenseman in his prime.

I don't know what Sutter was smoking when he gave up Aulie and Phaneuf. Whatever it was, we need to send some to the Avalanche to get Stastny.
Lol this!

I think maybe he was taking a few too many trips into BC

Send that ish to Colorado !

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03-28-2011, 01:52 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Chara didn't become the Chara he is now till he was 25. Aulie is 21 and he's already doing pretty good, I'm not saying that Aulie would ever become a Chara type defenseman, but Aulie will be a great top 2 defenseman in his prime.

I don't know what Sutter was smoking when he gave up Aulie and Phaneuf. Whatever it was, we need to send some to the Avalanche to get Stastny.
Burkie was smoking the same stuff when he signed Lebda.

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03-28-2011, 01:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I disagree.

His presence has been a significant factor in stabalizing the teams back end. He has shown a lack of experience from time to time but in general, has used his size and awareness to good advantage.

They do not have to go find a #2 defensmen, they have a few youngsters lining up for tryouts for next season.

I know it is easy to get sold on the bright lights of big names but sometimes you have to develop from within and create your own good players that eventually everyone else in the league will look at and say..

"Wow, how did he slip into the 4th round.."

Like a large amount of significant defensmen in the league...
You want to make the playoffs with Keith Aulie as the 2nd defenceman? C'mon. I'm not saying he doesn't look like a good prospect but geez....this is grand delusion. He can easily develop as #5-6 guy and slowly bring him up.....Its pretty evident to me that the Leafs need another top D....hopefully someone with an offensive upside who can also play the PP...I don't know if he should pair up with Phaneuf but it would certainly move everyone else down.

Honestly...how many teams do you think Keith Aulie would be #2 on? Probably none of the playoff teams.

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03-28-2011, 02:01 PM
  #67
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I like the heart and the big body. Who cares if some guy with both those things is dumb as a post

Not a 'Phan' of the bogus hairstyle though
Well not a "fan of the bogus glass's dude"

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03-28-2011, 02:06 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Phaneuf is by far the best defensive defenceman on the team and in the top echelon in the league. That's why Wilson puts him out there to shut down the other team's best players.
His gap control is atrocious. He gets beat like a pylon 3 or 4 times a game.

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03-28-2011, 02:11 PM
  #69
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His gap control is atrocious. He gets beat like a pylon 3 or 4 times a game.

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03-28-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
You want to make the playoffs with Keith Aulie as the 2nd defenceman? C'mon. I'm not saying he doesn't look like a good prospect but geez....this is grand delusion. He can easily develop as #5-6 guy and slowly bring him up.....Its pretty evident to me that the Leafs need another top D....hopefully someone with an offensive upside who can also play the PP...I don't know if he should pair up with Phaneuf but it would certainly move everyone else down.

Honestly...how many teams do you think Keith Aulie would be #2 on? Probably none of the playoff teams.
I just think your understanding of player development is limited. I think the team would have been better this year with a true #2 but to his credit, he has not looked too out of place for a player in his rookie season. I do not think our core needs any outside help going into nexy year except for some depth at 6-7. Aulie can only be expected to improve so I will say again, in today's NHL, this is what you do.

I would not be an advocate of spending more money on the D when we have the young talent right now. Aulie will be better next season and the season after and after that. I believe we can make the playoffs with him and Phaneuf as the top pair based solely on their play together since Aulie's recall.

Of course, the player has to earn the spot and keep it but there is more to who plays where than fantasy depth charting.

I believe that you are looking to hard at the name on the back than you are the play on the ice.


Quote:
His gap control is atrocious. He gets beat like a pylon 3 or 4 times a game.
This was true when he came back from that severe leg injury but has been less of a fact recently as his speed and leg strength has begun to return. He does need work on his lateral movement though. He covers for it by moving north-south well and creating fear at the blueline.

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03-28-2011, 02:32 PM
  #71
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His gap control is atrocious. He gets beat like a pylon 3 or 4 times a game.
Ya three months ago. Now he is he most reliable defensive defenseman we have right now.

But Dion gets the goat horns for other players mistakes. His partner getting beat out of the corner or the the center losing his man in front of the net. I am sorry but you cannot expect someone to be able to cover two players at once especially when they are matched up against the other teams top line all game long. What makes it worse is boneheads like Kypreos and Mac in the intermission shows playing to hate crowds and blaming Dion for every mistake made. Those two guys can't give Dion a compliment at all which makes me think they have some personal issue with Dion. Maybe it just makes for better ratings to bash the captain of the Leafs while they can.

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03-28-2011, 02:33 PM
  #72
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Phanuef is very good defensively. Not top of the league but certainly top on the Leafs.

How is the bolded stat measured?
Subjective opinion that is difficult to quantify, whether it is top defensive defenseman or responsible for many goals against I don't think either side of the argument has anything substantial to justify their position.

I guess we could edit most posts to add IMO, but isn't it obvious that most are speaking strictly about their own opinion in here?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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03-28-2011, 02:45 PM
  #73
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Less teams in the league so rounds were smaller, and European scouting wasn't as big then, guys like Kaberle falling to like the 6th-7th round.
Lidstrom drafted 53rd. when 252 players were selected. - 12 rounds
Aulie drafted 116th. when 211 players were selected. - 7 rounds
Gunnarsson drafted 194th. in Aulie's drafted.
Actually fewer picks today than when Lidstrom was selected.

10th. round Vladimir Malakhov
11th. round Vladimir Konstantinov

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03-28-2011, 03:04 PM
  #74
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I'll say this: at the start of the season, Phaneuf was right there with Komi and Beauch as our worst Dmen. He'd be out of position a lot, lose his man in front of his net, get beat wide often and give up the puck A LOT. In the last month and a half or so he's cut down on the mistakes while adding offense. If this trend can continue I think he will be a great asset on our team. If he regresses next year back to the level he was playing for the first half this season, then he is a liability.

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03-28-2011, 03:08 PM
  #75
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ok, i know there's been almost a 2-page arguement on the merits of Dion's game, but does anybody have a recap of what he actually talked about? So I've gathered that he was asked about his injury and the World Championships...anything else?

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