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Old
04-01-2011, 11:52 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I have paid my dues as a Flyers fan, good and bad, over the years of the franchise. My loyalty is not in question because I question the effort of two leaders on this team. You can spin it however you want. If this team flames out of the playoffs it is squarely on the shoulder of the core group(aka- Richards/Carter) to get the job done.

They wear the letters on the jerseys, they are the most tenured and have the largest contracts, as well as what most here will always go to......they are the guys who score, who are the impact players.........with that comes expectations. Maybe not from a fan like yourself, but from this fan it does.
This still doesn't address why you want Kesler on this team over Carter and Richards. Kesler has proven nothing. If you're willing to see what will happen in the 2011 playoffs with Kesler, why not see what Richards and Carter can do this year? You're prepping yourself for failure before the games are even played... but for some reason you think Kesler will shine, based on no evidence whatsoever.

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Now, if they put up the play and win the Cup they reap the rewards, it is the single most dynamic fact of being an athlete in Philly. If you win today, the fans will walk with you forever. If you lose, especially due to lack of effort and not talent, well you should expect that fans such as myself will call you out for that, no free pass. This is not St Louis where everything is rosy and no one cares.
So the Flyers lost last season due to lack of effort? Coming back from a 3-0 hole to Boston, and a 3-0 deficit in game 7 might suggest otherwise. The strain on Pronger, Timonen, Carle and Coburn was the single biggest reason they couldn't beat Chicago. Michael Leighton did his part, too.

If you can't appreciate their effort last year in trying to bring back a championship after a 35 year drought, that's on you. This team's success is all due to effort because they don't have any offensive superstars. Stars, yes, but no one who can put the team on his back like a Crosby, Datsyuk, Ovechkin.

But, sure, let's just write them off before the playoffs even start. I wish you had been around last season down the stretch drive. The team's in first place playing complacent hockey; I can only imagine how unbearable it was for you last year when the team fell ass backwards into an incredible playoff run.

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04-01-2011, 11:57 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
What would make Richards go higher in a re-do of the draft is he's absolutely exploded offensively. He wasn't supposed to be this good.
You are absolutely correct. Even Richards admits he didn't see himself as an offensive player. He was billed as captain material, great two-way player with the ability to score some goals. The thing now is, scouts are looking for those guys and taking them earlier than the higher skilled guys.

Great example: Towes. He came out as the Mike Richards, captain of team Canada, great two way player, future captain. He wen't third overall.

This year. The guy who is the "next Mike Richards", is going first overall. Wow. Think about it.

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04-01-2011, 12:01 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I have paid my dues as a Flyers fan, good and bad, over the years of the franchise. My loyalty is not in question because I question the effort of two leaders on this team. You can spin it however you want. If this team flames out of the playoffs it is squarely on the shoulder of the core group(aka- Richards/Carter) to get the job done.

They wear the letters on the jerseys, they are the most tenured and have the largest contracts, as well as what most here will always go to......they are the guys who score, who are the impact players.........with that comes expectations. Maybe not from a fan like yourself, but from this fan it does.

Now, if they put up the play and win the Cup they reap the rewards, it is the single most dynamic fact of being an athlete in Philly. If you win today, the fans will walk with you forever. If you lose, especially due to lack of effort and not talent, well you should expect that fans such as myself will call you out for that, no free pass. This is not St Louis where everything is rosy and no one cares.
As do Timonen and Pronger. Rag on them, too.

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04-01-2011, 01:14 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
This still doesn't address why you want Kesler on this team over Carter and Richards. Kesler has proven nothing. If you're willing to see what will happen in the 2011 playoffs with Kesler, why not see what Richards and Carter can do this year? You're prepping yourself for failure before the games are even played... but for some reason you think Kesler will shine, based on no evidence whatsoever.

Because IMHO Kesler brings a lot more to the ice every night than the dynamic duo, more heart and soul. A guy who will block a shot not because he thinks about it but because it is his instinct to do so. He is a gritty, in your face player. Reminds me of how Richie used to be before he thought he was too good to make an effort every night, gotta save it for the playoffs.


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So the Flyers lost last season due to lack of effort? Coming back from a 3-0 hole to Boston, and a 3-0 deficit in game 7 might suggest otherwise. The strain on Pronger, Timonen, Carle and Coburn was the single biggest reason they couldn't beat Chicago. Michael Leighton did his part, too.
Flyers made a nice run last season, but the matter of them making it on the shootout seems to be overlooked. The failure was not in the post-season, they did something that has never been achieved since expansion, but in the regular season. We want to focus on the bright side of what happened when a coach forced this group to play from the gut, to skate and work hard every night. That run is more of a reflection of what Laviolette instilled in the group. What it means is the talent was there all along, but for some reason they just did not want to dig deep enough to play at that level under Stevens any more.

I
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f you can't appreciate their effort last year in trying to bring back a championship after a 35 year drought, that's on you. This team's success is all due to effort because they don't have any offensive superstars. Stars, yes, but no one who can put the team on his back like a Crosby, Datsyuk, Ovechkin.
I appreciate the run, but not the regular season. I enjoyed the run, and when the stars aligned right and they met Montreal in teh ECF's I knew it was on, but Chicago was the team to beat. They played at that level all year and forced the Flyers to exhaust all of their last bit of energy, eventually falling to the better team.

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But, sure, let's just write them off before the playoffs even start. I wish you had been around last season down the stretch drive. The team's in first place playing complacent hockey; I can only imagine how unbearable it was for you last year when the team fell ass backwards into an incredible playoff run.

Not writing them off, just stating the facts that if they do not amp up their game, win the games like last night at home, it is going to be a short post-season. Everyone wants them to flip the switch and win.

The teams who win are like Chicago, playing well going into the playoffs, not losing three games to Atlanta over the last month of the season. OR having two quality wins since February 19th(Rangers and Pens). A quality win is against a playoff bound team, in either regulation or OT.

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04-01-2011, 01:17 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
As do Timonen and Pronger. Rag on them, too.
Timonen and Pronger have paid their dues, but if there is a failure those guys will need to take their medicine too. We want to shower the faces of the franchise with accolades of greatness for what they do on a regular basis.

Pronger in the playoffs, he WAS the reason they made it as far as they did. I would never question the heart of Timonen either, the guy goes out and give 110% every night, success or failure.

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04-01-2011, 01:56 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Because IMHO Kesler brings a lot more to the ice every night than the dynamic duo, more heart and soul. A guy who will block a shot not because he thinks about it but because it is his instinct to do so. He is a gritty, in your face player. Reminds me of how Richie used to be before he thought he was too good to make an effort every night, gotta save it for the playoffs.


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Flyers made a nice run last season, but the matter of them making it on the shootout seems to be overlooked. The failure was not in the post-season, they did something that has never been achieved since expansion, but in the regular season. We want to focus on the bright side of what happened when a coach forced this group to play from the gut, to skate and work hard every night. That run is more of a reflection of what Laviolette instilled in the group. What it means is the talent was there all along, but for some reason they just did not want to dig deep enough to play at that level under Stevens any more.

I appreciate the run, but not the regular season. I enjoyed the run, and when the stars aligned right and they met Montreal in teh ECF's I knew it was on, but Chicago was the team to beat. They played at that level all year and forced the Flyers to exhaust all of their last bit of energy, eventually falling to the better team.
All the major pieces are still with the Flyers from last season... and a team you can't stop complaining about is leading the Eastern Conference. This is a group that has been built and has been preparing for 16 wins in the post-season.

Should they fail in that goal, and criticism is warranted, they'll get it from me. I don't fault their effort in 2010. Their path through the playoffs was nearly as favourable as it could have been; this year I 'd be surprised if they had an 'easy' route again. So they could fall to a 'better team'... unless you don't think there are any.

The regular season wasn't a failure, either. They made the playoffs, which is the primary goal of every season; you can't win the Cup if you don't make the playoffs. They were a shootout loss from missing the playoffs, but they didn't lose.

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Not writing them off, just stating the facts that if they do not amp up their game, win the games like last night at home, it is going to be a short post-season. Everyone wants them to flip the switch and win.

The teams who win are like Chicago, playing well going into the playoffs, not losing three games to Atlanta over the last month of the season. OR having two quality wins since February 19th(Rangers and Pens). A quality win is against a playoff bound team, in either regulation or OT.
Again, if their run falls short and the deserve criticism for it, they'll get it. Why criticize them before the games have been played? I don't like how the team is playing now and they deserve criticism for that, but they haven't choked in the playoffs yet... so why slam these guys before the results are in?

As for Chicago, before their final 5 games of last season (since the Flyers have 5 games left this season), their record in their previous 10 games was 4-4-2; they also lost their final game of the season, which cost them the 1st seed in the West. This year the Flyers' record in the 10 games leading up to the final 5 games is 4-2-4. Should the Flyers finish strong, they'll have had the same kind of run the Hawks did; should they struggle, we can all heap criticism on them.

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04-01-2011, 02:56 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post




All the major pieces are still with the Flyers from last season... and a team you can't stop complaining about is leading the Eastern Conference. This is a group that has been built and has been preparing for 16 wins in the post-season.

Should they fail in that goal, and criticism is warranted, they'll get it from me. I don't fault their effort in 2010. Their path through the playoffs was nearly as favourable as it could have been; this year I 'd be surprised if they had an 'easy' route again. So they could fall to a 'better team'... unless you don't think there are any.

The regular season wasn't a failure, either. They made the playoffs, which is the primary goal of every season; you can't win the Cup if you don't make the playoffs. They were a shootout loss from missing the playoffs, but they didn't lose.



Again, if their run falls short and the deserve criticism for it, they'll get it. Why criticize them before the games have been played? I don't like how the team is playing now and they deserve criticism for that, but they haven't choked in the playoffs yet... so why slam these guys before the results are in?

As for Chicago, before their final 5 games of last season (since the Flyers have 5 games left this season), their record in their previous 10 games was 4-4-2; they also lost their final game of the season, which cost them the 1st seed in the West. This year the Flyers' record in the 10 games leading up to the final 5 games is 4-2-4. Should the Flyers finish strong, they'll have had the same kind of run the Hawks did; should they struggle, we can all heap criticism on them.
This is the best team since the 1987 squad, I do not think there are really any team in the EC who can beat the Flyers when they play at their best. Thus, why this is on the shoulder of the guys who have been in the ECF's in 2007-08, lost to Pens after losing home ice in last game of season in 2008-09, inconsistent 2009-10 season where the players got the coach fired(this can be argued if you want, but I saw a team who just quit on the coach who had been their biggest supporter since the core group won the Calder with Phantoms) that had to make the playoffs in a shootout and then make a great run to the SCF's.

So for me I see a couple years where the one constant theme has been inconsistency. When they want to play hockey they can be one of the better teams in the NHL. When they just skate around thinking they can show up and collect the 2pts they get beat by lesser teams. I am still trying to figure out which team is going to show up, but have some pride and win games at the end of the season in preperation for the playoffs. Lead by example and make people fear coming into your building. The real question I have right now which is soon to be answered, is have the younger guys quit on Laviolette because he demands too much? Laviolette has given the guys the rope, now it is time for the guys to show up and seize the moment.

Detroit and Vnacouver are both unfavorable matchups IMO, Detroit moreso than Vancouver but both pose deep lineups that can play Laviolette's game well.

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04-01-2011, 02:59 PM
  #158
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Don't blame the players for Stevens' firing. Stevens alone was responsible for that.

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04-01-2011, 03:29 PM
  #159
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Don't blame the players for Stevens' firing. Stevens alone was responsible for that.
That is your opinion. The players stopped playing after that trip to Fla. Stevens was too nice of a coach, but it was only a year out from being in the ECF's, it is not like he could not be a reliable coach. His faults are many, but these dogs laid down on him.

The one thing that I always look at with Stevens was he never knew how to call a timeout. Laviolette has a great pulse to the players, but there are signs that these guys are starting to not keep with the concept.

Early march guys complain they are exhausted and Laviolette says he has worked them too hard, not in Laviolette's book, but fine he gives them time off. As of late the players have been given time off, but Richards was quoted after the Pens loss last week that "maybe they did not have their legs". We are getting some conflicting messages here. First they are too tired with a coach who feels conditioning is part of winning a Cup. Then he gives guys time off, but the captain says they did not have their legs....?????

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04-01-2011, 03:35 PM
  #160
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I have Richards, Carter, Clarke and Kerr. I wear them all with pride!
Nice Tim Kerr!

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04-01-2011, 03:54 PM
  #161
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That is your opinion. The players stopped playing after that trip to Fla. Stevens was too nice of a coach, but it was only a year out from being in the ECF's, it is not like he could not be a reliable coach. His faults are many, but these dogs laid down on him.

The one thing that I always look at with Stevens was he never knew how to call a timeout. Laviolette has a great pulse to the players, but there are signs that these guys are starting to not keep with the concept.

Early march guys complain they are exhausted and Laviolette says he has worked them too hard, not in Laviolette's book, but fine he gives them time off. As of late the players have been given time off, but Richards was quoted after the Pens loss last week that "maybe they did not have their legs". We are getting some conflicting messages here. First they are too tired with a coach who feels conditioning is part of winning a Cup. Then he gives guys time off, but the captain says they did not have their legs....?????

Stevens didn't work them at all. Lavi is working them. They're tired because he's been pushing them hard, to be in the best shape possible come playoffs. Let's hope he hasn't over done it.

Stevens had no system, wasn't good at adjusting in a series, and sure as hell had no idea how to adjust or make changes during a game, much less use a timeout. He was easy on the players, let them do what they wanted, and they might have lost their respect/fear for him. That will happen to any coach, at any level of athletics, who tries to be best friends with his players...I've seen it happen firsthand. The Flyers aren't some exception. Stevens isn't meant to be a head coach, he didn't live up to expectations, so he got fired.

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04-01-2011, 03:58 PM
  #162
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Stevens sucked as a coach, no system, no direction, no emotion. But dammit, he could bake!

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04-01-2011, 04:00 PM
  #163
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That is your opinion. The players stopped playing after that trip to Fla. Stevens was too nice of a coach, but it was only a year out from being in the ECF's, it is not like he could not be a reliable coach. His faults are many, but these dogs laid down on him.

The one thing that I always look at with Stevens was he never knew how to call a timeout. Laviolette has a great pulse to the players, but there are signs that these guys are starting to not keep with the concept.

Early march guys complain they are exhausted and Laviolette says he has worked them too hard, not in Laviolette's book, but fine he gives them time off. As of late the players have been given time off, but Richards was quoted after the Pens loss last week that "maybe they did not have their legs". We are getting some conflicting messages here. First they are too tired with a coach who feels conditioning is part of winning a Cup. Then he gives guys time off, but the captain says they did not have their legs....?????
1. Stevens deserved to be laid down on.... The guy was terrible.

2. What signs show that this team is tuning Lavi out? Is it because they have been in 1st place for pretty much the entire season?

3. Why do you care so much about what is said and less about what is done (results)?

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04-01-2011, 05:13 PM
  #164
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Stevens didn't work them at all. Lavi is working them. They're tired because he's been pushing them hard, to be in the best shape possible come playoffs. Let's hope he hasn't over done it.

Stevens had no system, wasn't good at adjusting in a series, and sure as hell had no idea how to adjust or make changes during a game, much less use a timeout. He was easy on the players, let them do what they wanted, and they might have lost their respect/fear for him. That will happen to any coach, at any level of athletics, who tries to be best friends with his players...I've seen it happen firsthand. The Flyers aren't some exception. Stevens isn't meant to be a head coach, he didn't live up to expectations, so he got fired.
They've had plenty of time off lately. it's time for their conditioning to pay dividends. I think the Flyers will win big tonight against New Jersey. I actually thought Richards played better against Pittsburgh and Atlanta. From here on out the Flyers will play up to potential, Mark My Words.

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04-01-2011, 05:32 PM
  #165
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They've had plenty of time off lately. it's time for their conditioning to pay dividends. I think the Flyers will win big tonight against New Jersey. I actually thought Richards played better against Pittsburgh and Atlanta. From here on out the Flyers will play up to potential, Mark My Words.
This is what I'm hoping for. Kimmo's hip flexor is going to be an issue though, and of course there's that whole Pronger thing.

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04-01-2011, 08:41 PM
  #166
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Nice assist tonight, but aside from that he was pretty invisible. This is a time for a captain to step up, to be the leader of men and set the example.

Richards just isn't doing that. Him and Briere are nowhere to be seen on the big shifts.

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04-01-2011, 09:44 PM
  #167
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I thought Richards had a good game tonight.

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04-01-2011, 10:52 PM
  #168
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Kesler gained a lot of fans south of Canada and East of Vancouver last year for his play in the Olympics. Carter didn't make his team, and Richards was part of a very good 4th line. I have not watched more than a handfull of 'Couver games this year though to pass fair judgement on him this season, but I have loved his game every time I've watched, but I had also been paying closer attention to him specifically as well.

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04-02-2011, 09:23 AM
  #169
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Kesler gained a lot of fans south of Canada and East of Vancouver last year for his play in the Olympics. Carter didn't make his team, and Richards was part of a very good 4th line. I have not watched more than a handfull of 'Couver games this year though to pass fair judgement on him this season, but I have loved his game every time I've watched, but I had also been paying closer attention to him specifically as well.
I live in Canada bro. Richards and Toews are the REASON Canada won Gold. They were the FIRST LINE, not the fourth. Whenever the chips were down, Richards Toews came over the boards. Crosby got the golden goal, but most fans will point to the Toews-Richards combination as our top line.

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04-02-2011, 10:18 AM
  #170
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Mike Richards
Is Cannon!

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04-02-2011, 10:59 AM
  #171
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yeah Richards-Toews-Nash were dynamite for Canada

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04-02-2011, 12:43 PM
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I live in Canada bro. Richards and Toews are the REASON Canada won Gold. They were the FIRST LINE, not the fourth. Whenever the chips were down, Richards Toews came over the boards. Crosby got the golden goal, but most fans will point to the Toews-Richards combination as our top line.
Without them we don't beat Russia. Richie was amazing in that game, hitting guys and making plays. One shift he dug the puck out while he was on his butt, passed it and Canada scored a goal. He didn't get an assist because there weren't enough to go around but he made it happen. That line was phenomenal.

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04-02-2011, 12:53 PM
  #173
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I live in Canada bro. Richards and Toews are the REASON Canada won Gold. They were the FIRST LINE, not the fourth. Whenever the chips were down, Richards Toews came over the boards. Crosby got the golden goal, but most fans will point to the Toews-Richards combination as our top line.
never said anything to discredit him or that line, bro... but they were still below super star calibre players that other teams needed to game plan specifically around on the depth chart, which opened up the ice for their line IMO. Nothing to discredit them at all chief.

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04-02-2011, 02:25 PM
  #174
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I was watching the Stars vs. Sabres SCF game 6? I think. It was whatever game went 3 OTs that the Stars won. But the announcers kept talking about Buffalo's captain Michael Peca and how his play was being scrutinized in the regular season because he was a guy known to hit, make-plays and work hard and hadn't been doing it that much but because that style of play takes alot of energy and in previous years when he would play like that the entire regular season he wouldn't have enough for the playoffs. Maybe its the same thing for Richards. Both guys play relatively the same style and are about the same size and stature. So just saying it might take a whole lot of enrgy to play like that in the regular season and leave you nothing for the playoffs.

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04-02-2011, 04:38 PM
  #175
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never said anything to discredit him or that line, bro... but they were still below super star calibre players that other teams needed to game plan specifically around on the depth chart, which opened up the ice for their line IMO. Nothing to discredit them at all chief.
I think with 4 allstar lines the ice should be opened up for everyone not named crosby, thorton/marleau/heatley/iginla... etc could have turned it up and took over, but it was toews and richards who stepped it up when needed... coincidence? doubtful... they are proven winners

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