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Old
03-31-2011, 06:28 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Peekay Zubban View Post
Oh get off your high horse already mister I've seen real beauty.

Montreal may have some crappy infrastructure and run-down areas (like any other city in the world) but in NA, its widely considered one of the prettiest cities. Europe is Europe, and has its own very ugly areas that you probably wouldn't want us to see.

The ghettos that exist in cities like Budapest, Rotterdam even Paris and Rome make our worst areas look like beverly hills.
Yup. Marseilles and Napoli are holes. Ghettos there are definite abandonned zones.

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03-31-2011, 06:32 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Yup. Marseilles and Napoli are holes. Ghettos there are definite abandonned zones.
i was 20 when backpacking around europe ... got mugged in Naples (20 minutes after coming off the train from Rome)...

yes that place is a dump , from the little bit that I saw -- garbage everywhere

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03-31-2011, 06:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
i was 20 when backpacking around europe ... got mugged in Naples (20 minutes after coming off the train from Rome)...

yes that place is a dump , from the little bit that I saw -- garbage everywhere
City of crime. I think it's where it was invented.

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03-31-2011, 06:42 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peekay Zubban View Post
Oh get off your high horse already mister I've seen real beauty.

Montreal may have some crappy infrastructure and run-down areas (like any other city in the world) but in NA, its widely considered one of the prettiest cities. Europe is Europe, and has its own very ugly areas that you probably wouldn't want us to see.

The ghettos that exist in cities like Budapest, Rotterdam even Paris and Rome make our worst areas look like beverly hills.
Montrealers are too sensitive about everything. I'm not comparing it to anything, yeah I've seen horrible, horrible dumps in ex-communist countries. It doesn't change my opinion that Montreal is an ugly city, by any standart. But if you want to go ahead and compare it to Budapest, fine. But in Budapest, the whole downtown area on both sides of the danube you can just walk and admire the place. I'm not going to into Rome and Paris, it's not worth anyones time. Where do you do that in Montreal, le Plateau ? It's been my opinion for as long as I remember. Some parts are nice (and nothing more), 95-98% of the city is downright grey, ugly and unimaginative. That Montreal is widely considered one of the prettiest cities by Montrealers is irrelevant to me. No one visits Montreal for its beauty, no one. It's a fun city, it's a good city to live in, visit and meet people. Cool, let's leave it at that and not say it's something it's not.

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03-31-2011, 06:46 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Yup. Marseilles and Napoli are holes. Ghettos there are definite abandonned zones.
I don't understand why people are bringing other ugly cities in the discussion. A Lada Riva being an uglier car than ford pinto doesn't change my opinion on the ford pinto.

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Old
03-31-2011, 07:06 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Montrealers are too sensitive about everything. I'm not comparing it to anything, yeah I've seen horrible, horrible dumps in ex-communist countries. It doesn't change my opinion that Montreal is an ugly city, by any standart. But if you want to go ahead and compare it to Budapest, fine. But in Budapest, the whole downtown area on both sides of the danube you can just walk and admire the place. I'm not going to into Rome and Paris, it's not worth anyones time. Where do you do that in Montreal, le Plateau ? It's been my opinion for as long as I remember. Some parts are nice (and nothing more), 95-98% of the city is downright grey, ugly and unimaginative. That Montreal is widely considered one of the prettiest cities by Montrealers is irrelevant to me. No one visits Montreal for its beauty, no one. It's a fun city, it's a good city to live in, visit and meet people. Cool, let's leave it at that and not say it's something it's not.
Why are you comparing an urban city in Canada to Europe?

By North American standards, MTL is up there and easily the most unique.

edit: as for quality of PEOPLE, I'll take Montrealers / Canadians / North American's any day. It's not even close.

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03-31-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Why are you comparing an urban city in Canada to Europe?

By North American standards, MTL is up there and easily the most unique.

edit: as for quality of PEOPLE, I'll take Montrealers / Canadians / North American's any day. It's not even close.
Read the conversation, I made no comparison whatsoever, I feel its unfair to do that. Everyone else has except me. Cities are not built to be pretty, they're built for people to live and function. Truly beautiful cities are not common. Peekay Zubban was the one who brought up Budapest, not me. But I felt the need to defend it because its a city where there are truly beautiful places to visit, even if the outskirts have horrible communist type dumps.

I don't care about North American standards either. I don't have different standards for beauty, I have one. What is unique about it for you?

And as for quality of people, all I have to say is that you're spectalularly insecure if you have to bring this up. For one, because there are 7 billion people in the world with an incredible diversity of cultures and you haven't had the chance to live in most of them. Second, Canadians are an awesome people and I haven't seen anyone say otherwise here. But if you have to say "it's not even close", then I just feel pity for you because it's not the case.

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03-31-2011, 07:30 PM
  #83
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So... what about the development?

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Old
03-31-2011, 07:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post

I don't care about North American standards either. I don't have different standards for beauty, I have one. What is unique about it for you?
Have you traveled at all in N.America? If so, I wouldn't have to explain what is unique about Montreal. It's pretty self-explanatory.

Quote:

And as for quality of people, all I have to say is that you're spectalularly insecure if you have to bring this up. For one, because there are 7 billion people in the world with an incredible diversity of cultures and you haven't had the chance to live in most of them. Second, Canadians are an awesome people and I haven't seen anyone say otherwise here. But if you have to say "it's not even close", then I just feel pity for you because it's not the case.
There are good and bad people all over the world - nobody could deny that.

A lot also depends on which countries we're talking about -- France and Italy are two countries that were mentioned -- and yes I have never met more stuck-up rude arrogant and ignorant population in my life. Sorry if this offends anyone. I'm speaking from the perspective of an outsider / tourist.

I'm sure Italian posters on this board travel to Italy to visit family or what not - and I'm pretty confident they are all amazing warm loving people... But as a tourist back packing around Rome, Florence, etc.. it was pretty rough. I don't think tourists coming to Canada would say the same thing.

I've travelled throughout Europe, and lived in latvia and Lithuania for 4 months... I met a lot of great people but by and large I'm not really missing them either.

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03-31-2011, 07:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Have you traveled at all in N.America? If so, I wouldn't have to explain what is unique about Montreal. It's pretty self-explanatory.
Ontario, Quebec, East coast down to Florida. Didn't do the Central US or West coast but would love to. I would choose Montreal over most of the cities, but beauty would not be on my list of reasons. So what is unique about Montreal's beauty for you?


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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
There are good and bad people all over the world - nobody could deny that.

A lot also depends on which countries we're talking about -- France and Italy are two countries that were mentioned -- and yes I have never met more stuck-up rude arrogant and ignorant population in my life. Sorry if this offends anyone. I'm speaking from the perspective of an outsider / tourist.

I'm sure Italian posters on this board travel to Italy to visit family or what not - and I'm pretty confident they are all amazing warm loving people... But as a tourist back packing around Rome, Florence, etc.. it was pretty rough. I don't think tourists coming to Canada would say the same thing.

I've travelled throughout Europe, and lived in latvia and Lithuania for 4 months... I met a lot of great people but by and large I'm not really missing them either.
No, it doesn't depend on which countries we're talking about. Your statement was clear cut and absurd. Everywhere I've ever been to I was treated awesome, but the way you're treated comes from how you act with people, and that comes from your understanding of people. What you should just say is that you like Canadians and Americans better because you have a better cultural understanding of them and that's all there is to it. I've had friends tell me the same thing you did but about Americans/Canadians and I disagree with them about that too, for the same reasons.

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03-31-2011, 07:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
A lot also depends on which countries we're talking about -- France and Italy are two countries that were mentioned -- and yes I have never met more stuck-up rude arrogant and ignorant population in my life. Sorry if this offends anyone. I'm speaking from the perspective of an outsider / tourist.

I'm sure Italian posters on this board travel to Italy to visit family or what not - and I'm pretty confident they are all amazing warm loving people... But as a tourist back packing around Rome, Florence, etc.. it was pretty rough. I don't think tourists coming to Canada would say the same thing.

I've travelled throughout Europe, and lived in latvia and Lithuania for 4 months... I met a lot of great people but by and large I'm not really missing them either.
I actually heard other stories to be honest. My teacher had told me he went to france, someone saw his canada logo and asked him if he was canadian. When he said yes, the person was very nice and even split a cab with him. He told him in europe they like canadians and you know what, you probably went into touristy areas where people didn't really care. Most ppl are very nice to us, we're a peaceful nation and we never chose to leave france, and we stayed fairly long with england and left on better terms than the states.


I'm italian btw, although I consider myself canadian. Don't give a **** about italy though, canada ftw

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03-31-2011, 07:54 PM
  #87
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Yup. Marseilles and Napoli are holes. Ghettos there are definite abandonned zones.
Heh, definately the worst cities I have been in in Europe... but for real ugliness nothing can beat Datong, China. That city is a real nightmare of ugly architecture, rundown infrastructure and absolutely horrid pollution.

In Québec, the worst I have seen is Baie-Comeau.

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03-31-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Ontario, Quebec, East coast down to Florida. Didn't do the Central US or West coast but would love to. I would choose Montreal over most of the cities, but beauty would not be on my list of reasons. So what is unique about Montreal's beauty for you?
I wrote my stance on the city a page or 2 back, but I'm wondering, what do you feel would make montreal a more beautiful city? I don't think we have a beautiful city, I think we have a nice city, with a lot of multi-cultural and other well known events, but montreal lacks something. I dunno, I wish I saw more large scale buildings, or more areas that have an identity like the old port. Other than that stuff, we have 'nightlife' but I don't really care about it.

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03-31-2011, 07:59 PM
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edit: as for quality of PEOPLE, I'll take Montrealers / Canadians / North American's any day. It's not even close.
This is a ridiculous comment so I felt I needed to pitch in with my opinion.

I spend a lot of time in Spain and I have never met more outgoing and friendlier people. Makes some North Americans look like paranoid snobs. For example it's common for several strangers to meet at the beach and share a blanket! Then just go their own ways and never see each other again. True story, it happened to me in Barcelona last summer.

Montreal is a fun place to be and all, but let's not paint all Europeans with the same snobby brush. A lot of "friendliness" over here also is made up and makes me want to vomit.


P.S. I am an avid traveler, if you close your eyes and point at a world map, I've probably been there.

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03-31-2011, 08:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Have you traveled at all in N.America? If so, I wouldn't have to explain what is unique about Montreal. It's pretty self-explanatory.
It's funny that you mention this. Yes, I know what's unique about Montreal and makes it the best city to live in NA in my humble opinion. It's the city's small, cozy and charming feel. reminds you of some other places? Maybe across the Atlantic?

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03-31-2011, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I actually heard other stories to be honest. My teacher had told me he went to france, someone saw his canada logo and asked him if he was canadian. When he said yes, the person was very nice and even split a cab with him. He told him in europe they like canadians and you know what, you probably went into touristy areas where people didn't really care. Most ppl are very nice to us, we're a peaceful nation and we never chose to leave france, and we stayed fairly long with england and left on better terms than the states.


I'm italian btw, although I consider myself canadian. Don't give a **** about italy though, canada ftw
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I wrote my stance on the city a page or 2 back, but I'm wondering, what do you feel would make montreal a more beautiful city? I don't think we have a beautiful city, I think we have a nice city, with a lot of multi-cultural and other well known events, but montreal lacks something. I dunno, I wish I saw more large scale buildings, or more areas that have an identity like the old port. Other than that stuff, we have 'nightlife' but I don't really care about it.
Well, again, nightlife, culture, events... nothing here has anything to do with a cities aesthetics. Which makes me wonder about peoples understanding of the word beauty, it's purely visual, nothing to do with concepts like nightlife or culture. Montreal's fundamentally ugly, you would need a revamp to make it beautiful. But, at least, you can have an architectural concept in mind. For example, downtown you can go for the modern look a la Eindhoven for new buildings. For old Montreal, the buildings are european style and you can change the facades, change the paved roads and sidewalks to a Hapsburg/Bohemian style city. For new residential area, go for the "green" look. Let artists design some crazy buildings once in a while, like the Dancing House. But it's unnecessary, people want money well spent.

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03-31-2011, 08:14 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
Well, again, nightlife, culture, events... nothing here has anything to do with a cities aesthetics. Which makes me wonder about peoples understanding of the word beauty, it's purely visual, nothing to do with concepts like nightlife or culture. Montreal's fundamentally ugly, you would need a revamp to make it beautiful. But, at least, you can have an architectural concept in mind. For example, downtown you can go for the modern look a la Eindhoven for new buildings. For old Montreal, the buildings are european style and you can change the facades, change the paved roads and sidewalks to a Hapsburg/Bohemian style city. For new residential area, go for the "green" look. Let artists design some crazy buildings once in a while, like the Dancing House. But it's unnecessary, people want money well spent.
Oh absolutely I agree. I do find the old port beautiful, I find mont royal nice as well. There's plenty of nice places. Just, like you said, it's the architecture. I hope one day they revamp certain areas. Aren't they fixing, or they already have fixed, st laurent a bit?

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03-31-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I actually heard other stories to be honest. My teacher had told me he went to france, someone saw his canada logo and asked him if he was canadian. When he said yes, the person was very nice and even split a cab with him. He told him in europe they like canadians and you know what, you probably went into touristy areas where people didn't really care. Most ppl are very nice to us, we're a peaceful nation and we never chose to leave france, and we stayed fairly long with england and left on better terms than the states.
Quoted in my other post, but forgot to answer. This was exactly my experience everywhere.

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This is a ridiculous comment so I felt I needed to pitch in with my opinion.

I spend a lot of time in Spain and I have never met more outgoing and friendlier people. Makes some North Americans look like paranoid snobs. For example it's common for several strangers to meet at the beach and share a blanket! Then just go their own ways and never see each other again. True story, it happened to me in Barcelona last summer.

Montreal is a fun place to be and all, but let's not paint all Europeans with the same snobby brush. A lot of "friendliness" over here also is made up and makes me want to vomit.
I agree soooo much with this post.

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Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
It's funny that you mention this. Yes, I know what's unique about Montreal and makes it the best city to live in NA in my humble opinion. It's the city's small, cozy and charming feel.
Yep, this, along with the people, is what makes a large part of the city's charm. But it still has nothing to do with the city's beauty.

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03-31-2011, 08:18 PM
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Oh absolutely I agree. I do find the old port beautiful, I find mont royal nice as well. There's plenty of nice places. Just, like you said, it's the architecture. I hope one day they revamp certain areas. Aren't they fixing, or they already have fixed, st laurent a bit?
The Main suffered quite a bit when they were redoing the sidewalks and the pavement. I took a whole year and driving there was a nightmare. Many shops and businesses closed because of it. Now it seems to come back a little but it will take some time. St-Laurent isn't what it used to be.

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03-31-2011, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
This is a ridiculous comment so I felt I needed to pitch in with my opinion.

I spend a lot of time in Spain and I have never met more outgoing and friendlier people. Makes some North Americans look like paranoid snobs. For example it's common for several strangers to meet at the beach and share a blanket! Then just go their own ways and never see each other again. True story, it happened to me in Barcelona last summer.

Montreal is a fun place to be and all, but let's not paint all Europeans with the same snobby brush. A lot of "friendliness" over here also is made up and makes me want to vomit.


P.S. I am an avid traveler, if you close your eyes and point at a world map, I've probably been there.
I haven't been to spain but am very familiar with the culture (mom is from Spain originally).

There is no disputing that probably in all Mediterranean regions there is this genuine warmth and sense of family that you would not find in some cold boring cookie-cutter walmart plastic town in Canada.

You see it in your example, but also, if you're lucky enough to grow up and be exposed to that warm culture.

But I'm still of the opinion that in Montreal, and Canada, there is something very genuine, open and honest with the people (WITHIN tourist destinations).

In tourist destinations such as Paris, Rome etc...the experience is rude and dishonest whereas a tourist visiting a city in N. America would not have to encounter.

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03-31-2011, 08:20 PM
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The Main suffered quite a bit when they were redoing the sidewalks and the pavement. I took a whole year and driving there was a nightmare. Many shops and businesses closed because of it. Now it seems to come back a little but it will take some time. St-Laurent isn't what it used to be.
I'm not sure what they changed, any idea? I never go by there.

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03-31-2011, 08:23 PM
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So what is unique about Montreal's beauty for you?
I haven't been everywhere in N. America but how many Old Montreals can you find?

By beauty, are you only referring to architecture and scenery? Architecturally, Montreal is far superior to cities like Philadelphia, Detroit, Miami, LA, San Diego etc..

If you account for the European influences, two official languages, laid back life style, terraces, etc... than ya, Montreal is very unique.

If Montreal had the Atlantic instead of the St. Lawrence, it be top everyones list in the world

Imagine going to Old Montreal, and looking out to the ocean? One can dream lol

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03-31-2011, 08:34 PM
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I'm not sure what they changed, any idea? I never go by there.
Basically the sidewalks are larger and they took the time to change the sewers, pipes, etc. An article from when the construction was done. It looks better but the area was more alive when I was younger. It died to me when Warsaw closed

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03-31-2011, 09:11 PM
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I haven't been everywhere in N. America but how many Old Montreals can you find?

By beauty, are you only referring to architecture and scenery? Architecturally, Montreal is far superior to cities like Philadelphia, Detroit, Miami, LA, San Diego etc..

If you account for the European influences, two official languages, laid back life style, terraces, etc... than ya, Montreal is very unique.

If Montreal had the Atlantic instead of the St. Lawrence, it be top everyones list in the world

Imagine going to Old Montreal, and looking out to the ocean? One can dream lol
We could float the island down the river and anchor it in the gulf of St-Lawrence and it could be the province of Montreal!

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