You cannot just subtract those numbers. Most those bodies need to be replaced.
The team has $32-million and change committed to 5 forwards, 2 defenders and a goalie.
Not counting injuries (and given what we saw this year, you kind of have to), that means they need to get 8 more forwards, 5 more defenders and another goalie for next year and have about $28 million to do it with.
we can all agree Markov is ''big 3 material'' ( not saying he was as good as the big 3 but he's elite in the league ) , Subban has chances to become elite but let's not get ahead of ourselve in his case , but Gorges is not ''big 3 material'' at all.He's good and we need him , but more as a 4th.Suppose Subban start next year on fire and become elite and Markov comes back , what we would need is a an elite defenseman but bigger and taller and capable offensively and we would be very difficult to play against , sure they don't grow on trees , but we can start to search for it , we can trade for it , sign one in the next couple of years or draft one and develope him.This isn't a 1 year plan , more a couple of years.After that you start to search for a forward star and we could almost imitate the 70s habs which was a winning formula and could work in the modern era.
Elite Goalie - Price = done
3 very good defenseman - Markov , Subban(?) = missing 1
1 star forward = missing 1
Couple of decent forward - Plekanec , Pacioretty... = almost done
Good role players = missing a couple imo
we can all agree Markov is ''big 3 material'' ( not saying he was as good as the big 3 but he's elite in the league ) , Subban has chances to become elite but let's not get ahead of ourselve in his case , but Gorges is not ''big 3 material'' at all.He's good and we need him , but more as a 4th.Suppose Subban start next year on fire and become elite and Markov comes back , what we would need is a an elite defenseman but bigger and taller and capable offensively and we would be very difficult to play against , sure they don't grow on trees , but we can start to search for it , we can trade for it , sign one in the next couple of years or draft one and develope him.This isn't a 1 year plan , more a couple of years.After that you start to search for a forward star and we could almost imitate the 70s habs which was a winning formula and coule work in the modern era.
Well... a "Big 3" defenceman would cost 7mil+... We can't add that in a cap world.
Also, we need to get younger and bigger.
Re-signing Markov would be a huge step in the right direction... and I would target Bieksa who is a solid Top 4, RH and plays physical. He would be the ideal linemate to Markov.
We're not losing because of the players we have on this team.....okay well maybe Gomez and Pouliot lol......but other then that.....it's alll about how we utilize the players and the style of game we play. Jacques Martin's time has come and gone as a coach in the NHL, his style just cannot be bought into anymore. We need a change if we have any hope of building team chemistry next season.
With a little luck, we have a Big 3 in the making
Markov - Subban - Tinordi (this requires the luck component)
I would add a Dman like Bieksa to partner with Markov
Re-sign Gill or Hamrlik but NOT both to pair with subban
Spacek Gorges as your bottom pairing (Spaceks not going anywhere)
With Bieksa, no room for Wiz
Keep Mara as a 7
deal weber as there's no room here
We're not losing because of the players we have on this team.....okay well maybe Gomez and Pouliot lol......but other then that.....it's alll about how we utilize the players and the style of game we play. Jacques Martin's time has come and gone as a coach in the NHL, his style just cannot be bought into anymore. We need a change if we have any hope of building team chemistry next season.
I know he's boring, but these Martin rants are getting old from people in general.
With the injuries we've had this year and the performances we got from most of the top players... It's a god damn miracle this team isn't 14th.
Martin has shown he can get mediocre teams much further than their talent allows and given this team lacks talent, I'd say that's not a bad quality in a coach.
3 very good defenseman - Markov , Subban(?) = missing 1
1 star forward = missing 1
Couple of decent forward - Plekanec , Pacioretty... = almost done
Good role players = missing a couple imo
not like it would be impossible to accomplish
That is super impossible to accomplish. There are 29 teams that you need to compete with in the summer to get those players.
There is only 1 star forward available via UFA this summer that 29 teams will compete for
There are maybe 10 very good defensement available over the summer.
You can't just dream things and add them to your roster.
We would have had a great defense for the next 10 years to go along with a great goalie if we didn't trade Ryan McDonagh and to less degree O'Byrne . We would have had ......
On the Left side... Markov..+..Ryan McDonagh..+
On the right side.. Subban..+..O'Byrne..+
Plus Gorges can play both sides and Weber(RD) and Tinordi(ld) would we waiting in the wings. It would have been a very cheap defense with those five.. Markov,McDonagh,Subban,O'Byrne and Gorges. we could have signed another good defenseman until Tinordi was ready to set in the line up in 3 years and this team would have been set.
You cannot just subtract those numbers. Most those bodies need to be replaced.
The team has $32-million and change committed to 5 forwards, 2 defenders and a goalie.
Not counting injuries (and given what we saw this year, you kind of have to), that means they need to get 8 more forwards, 5 more defenders and another goalie for next year and have about $28 million to do it with.
You're making it look worse than it really is. Habs have 6 forwards signed for next year, not 5. Out of all the others only two are UFA, Halpern and Darche. The rest are RFAs and will be signed for not much (except maybe Kostitsyn which I expect to re-sign around 3.5)
FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.100m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Benoit Pouliot ($1.350m)
Jeff Halpern ($0.600m) / David Desharnais ($1.000m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Tom Pyatt ($0.500m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.500m) / James Wisniewski ($4.250m)
Roman Hamrlik ($2.500m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Hal Gill ($2.000m) / Josh Gorges ($2.200m)
Jaroslav Spacek ($3.833m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Alex Auld ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)
SALARY CAP: $61,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,936,309; BONUSES: $400,000
You're making it look worse than it really is. Habs have 6 forwards signed for next year, not 5. Out of all the others only two are UFA, Halpern and Darche. The rest are RFAs and will be signed for not much (except maybe Kostitsyn which I expect to re-sign around 3.5)
FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.100m) / Lars Eller ($1.270m) / Benoit Pouliot ($1.350m)
Jeff Halpern ($0.600m) / David Desharnais ($1.000m) / Ryan White ($0.850m)
Tom Pyatt ($0.500m) / Mathieu Darche ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.500m) / James Wisniewski ($4.250m)
Roman Hamrlik ($2.500m) / P.K. Subban ($0.875m)
Hal Gill ($2.000m) / Josh Gorges ($2.200m)
Jaroslav Spacek ($3.833m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.750m) / Alex Auld ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS: Georges Laraque ($0.500m)
SALARY CAP: $61,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,936,309; BONUSES: $400,000
You just barely fit them all in and some of those numbers are ambitious. I doubt Markov and Hamrlik are that cheap, for example.
I say we let one of Gill or Hammer walk and use that money to sign the Wiz and give Weber a full time NHL job.
I don't see the Wiz coming back. Too much money. THe choice will be between him and Markov, and Markov is the right choice to keep.
Gil or Hammer will probably be re-signed, not both.
Emelin if he comes over kind of puts a wrench into the works. Although I haven't seen him play since the Junior Championship a few years ago, I feel he is too good now for AHL, so he would need a spot. Spacek will be back. So, in no particular order:
Markov
Subban
Gorges
Hammer or Gill
Spacek
Emelin
Weber
Picard
That's eight. In 5 years from now, Big 3 = Subban, Emelin and Tinordi?
You just barely fit them all in and some of those numbers are ambitious. I doubt Markov and Hamrlik are that cheap, for example.
Markov is asking for 5.75 so its pretty close.
I don't think Hammer will be back unless he is willing to take 2.5 he would probably get 3 to 3.5 on the market.
we can all agree Markov is ''big 3 material'' ( not saying he was as good as the big 3 but he's elite in the league ) , Subban has chances to become elite but let's not get ahead of ourselve in his case , but Gorges is not ''big 3 material'' at all.He's good and we need him , but more as a 4th.Suppose Subban start next year on fire and become elite and Markov comes back , what we would need is a an elite defenseman but bigger and taller and capable offensively and we would be very difficult to play against , sure they don't grow on trees , but we can start to search for it , we can trade for it , sign one in the next couple of years or draft one and develope him.This isn't a 1 year plan , more a couple of years.After that you start to search for a forward star and we could almost imitate the 70s habs which was a winning formula and could work in the modern era.
Elite Goalie - Price = done
3 very good defenseman - Markov , Subban(?) = missing 1
1 star forward = missing 1
Couple of decent forward - Plekanec , Pacioretty... = almost done
Good role players = missing a couple imo
not like it would be impossible to accomplish
problem is, NONE of the succesful teams follow this pattern... just look at the top 3 in the East/West
Philadelphia :
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : missing two (Pronger is the only "big 3 caliber")
Washington
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : maybe Green for his offense otherwise they're missing 3/3
Boston
1 star forward : they have none, their top forward will end the season with 65 pts at most
3 very good defenseman : missing one (Kaberle - Chara)
Vancouver
3 very good defenseman : name one that is "big 3 caliber", they have none... and yet it's the best D corp in the league...
Detroit
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Lidstrom, missing 2
San Jose
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Boyle, missing 2
Carlson will be there soon for Washington, already pretty damn good
while they're all capable D, most of whom I'd be happy to have on the Habs, none of them qualifies as "big 3 caliber", NONE of them I would take over Robinson, Savard or Lapointe (wich is the big 3 btw).
and none of them I would take over Markov-Subban (wich the guy think are big 3 caliber).
and even if you consider them good enough, those three teams are still missing pieces (based on RM list), and yet they're doing great...
basically just sayin' this theory is nice, but it will remain a theory that is all.
The key would have been to make a huge deal to acquire Bogosian. I would still try and give the moon for him. Him + Subban for years to come would be like having Pronger and Neids in Anaheim (obviously not now, but in 3-4 years).
Wisniewski's served his purpose, the way MAB did last season. But let's not forget that he was acquired because several Dmen were injured at the same time. There wouldn't have been a trade without that urgent need. He's not great at defending (although he's better and more physical than MAB). Paying him a salary in Markov's bracket would be unaffordable and would make no sense.
problem is, NONE of the succesful teams follow this pattern... just look at the top 3 in the East/West
Philadelphia :
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : missing two (Pronger is the only "big 3 caliber")
Washington
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : maybe Green for his offense otherwise they're missing 3/3
Boston
1 star forward : they have none, their top forward will end the season with 65 pts at most
3 very good defenseman : missing one (Kaberle - Chara)
Vancouver
3 very good defenseman : name one that is "big 3 caliber", they have none... and yet it's the best D corp in the league...
Detroit
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Lidstrom, missing 2
San Jose
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Boyle, missing 2
nice theory you have...
Anaheim had a big 3 when they won , beauchemin was by far the weakest but he was a pretty good D way back.Lidstrom has Rafalski but I don't watch them enough to know if kronwall and company are good enough.The Pens were a team built around very strong star forwards so it was just another strategy.Chicago had Keith , Seabrook , Campbell and overall they were very strong on D.Phildelphia has Pronger and Timonen , which in the modern era is good enough to be in a '' big 3 '' , keep in mind I'm not trying to say we would have to have 3 defenseman as good as Robinson , Savard or Lapointe , I don't even know if this year there's one D in the league as good as Guy Lapointe was in his prime since Lidstrom is getting old and the others are not having fantastic season.
Anaheim had a big 3 when they won , beauchemin was by far the weakest but he was a pretty good D way back.Lidstrom has Rafalski but I don't watch them enough to know if kronwall and company are good enough.The Pens were a team built around very strong star forwards so it was just another strategy.Chicago had Keith , Seabrook , Campbell and overall they were very strong on D.Phildelphia has Pronger and Timonen , which in the modern era is good enough to be in a '' big 3 '' , keep in mind I'm not trying to say we would have to have 3 defenseman as good as Robinson , Savard or Lapointe , I don't even know if this year there's one D in the league as good as Guy Lapointe was in his prime since Lidstrom is getting old and the others are not having fantastic season.
I see, two is good enough to be considered a big 3 (Timmonen-Pronger) and Lidstron next to a Rafalski not doing great (he's far from being as good as in NJ) is also good enough for the "big three title"...
well then, in that case... Markov-Subban is more than enough to be considered our big 3 dont you think ?!
problem is, NONE of the succesful teams follow this pattern... just look at the top 3 in the East/West
Philadelphia :
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : missing two (Pronger is the only "big 3 caliber")
Washington
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : maybe Green for his offense otherwise they're missing 3/3
Boston
1 star forward : they have none, their top forward will end the season with 65 pts at most
3 very good defenseman : missing one (Kaberle - Chara)
Vancouver
3 very good defenseman : name one that is "big 3 caliber", they have none... and yet it's the best D corp in the league...
Detroit
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Lidstrom, missing 2
San Jose
Elite Goalie : nope
3 very good defenseman : Boyle, missing 2
nice theory you have...
Well to be fair Ehrhoff, Edler, Timonen, Carlson, Rafalski, Kronwall are all pretty good dmen worthy of the etiquette IMO.
You seem to forgot 2006-2007 Ducks :
Elite Goalie : Giguere that year was clearly elite.
1 elite forward : Teemu Selanne with almost a 50 goals season
A big 3 on D : Pronger, Niedermayer and Beauchemin (all got around 30 min of icetime during the playoff)
No we don't see it often, but it still can be a winning formula in today NHL. PLus they had good scoring depth with young developping stars and alot of physical players.
Well I guess I was late in my answer lol
Anyway Markov-Subban is a pretty good start to round up the ideal would be fiding a 30-40 pts big tough guy that can bring physical play like Brent Seabrook or Marc Staal.
