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Old
04-03-2011, 05:00 AM
  #276
VanIslander
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I just sent plea messages to BM67, HO, ZM, MXD and pappy. Others should be contacted too. EVERYONE should try and contact one person they know, that way, we multiply our chances to find a replacement (an excellent chance for a newbie to cut his teeth on the draft - we could send him advice, and he could research just like any of several GMs who joined this board by doing the MLD first).

We have at least TWO (2) teams to fill.

Nighthawks
and
either Petes (though chaos is a vet and has record of making up picks late)
or AAA HC (awol and probably won't be back)
(or all three actually)

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04-03-2011, 07:11 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Nik jr is skipped. Dreakmur selects Paul Haynes, C.
Thanks for making my pick. I'm happy to get a strong playmaker who is also pretty good defenseively.

I think Haynes will actually take that 4th line center spot, and push McNab to RW.

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04-03-2011, 08:08 AM
  #278
Velociraptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
I just sent plea messages to BM67, HO, ZM, MXD and pappy. Others should be contacted too. EVERYONE should try and contact one person they know, that way, we multiply our chances to find a replacement (an excellent chance for a newbie to cut his teeth on the draft - we could send him advice, and he could research just like any of several GMs who joined this board by doing the MLD first).

We have at least TWO (2) teams to fill.

Nighthawks
and
either Petes (though chaos is a vet and has record of making up picks late)
or AAA HC (awol and probably won't be back)
(or all three actually)
GBC anyone? I heard 70's talk about him awhile ago, he could be a huge turning point for a team he takes over.

As awesome and fun this project was to be a part of, I don't think we should do 40 teams ever again, unless we know every manager is going to be committed until the end, and if they go MIA and least we know where they are. And definitely enforce a rookie manager rule, shorten the amount, or stick every manager with a seasoned-veteran manager, in the event where one disappears. (I know Thatguy and adv2006 were the only rookies who have disappeared, but for future drafts, it may make this a hell lot easier to keep track of, and much more competitive.)

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04-03-2011, 09:04 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I wrote everything I had in my biography and the conclusion afterwards (+ the little tidbits of Rollins save percentages in 1952-53). Tell why you aren't convince and I will reply to you later (I'm going to work in 10 minutes).
Don't mind TDMM - he can't be convinced of anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1) until someone explains to me just why I'm supposed to believe that Johnny bower played behind the worst defense in the league, I think retroactive save percentage is worth exactly zero.
Because of shots against? That's just how it was. High shots against does not mean bad defensive play. Look at Boston this year. They allow almost a league high in shots against, yet the goalies have strong S%. This is because a lot of those shots aren't high quality chances. Although I really do tend to find that there really isn't anything too special about the defense Bower played behind, I'm much more impressed about the defensive excellence of the forwards of those teams.

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04-03-2011, 09:20 AM
  #280
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The Riots Select Rob Niedermayer and Luke Richardson.

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Old
04-03-2011, 10:35 AM
  #281
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Steve Chiasson, D

vecens and arrbez are skipped. Rick n' Sturm notified.

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Old
04-03-2011, 10:47 AM
  #282
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The Gwinnett Gladiators select defenseman Mario Marois.

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Old
04-03-2011, 10:53 AM
  #283
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I decided to do a bit of number-crunching on the greatest offensive players in the PCHL. The below is a breakdown of Vs2 scoring numbers with the percentage difference between the player and the next best scorer on the team in [brackets] - with negative numbers indicating that he was not his team's top scorer. I find the breakdown, when laid out like this, fairly enlightening. I have ordered the players in what I think is roughly most to least impressive:

Taylor: 134 [139], 126 [86], 124 [44], 109 [67], 102 [2]

Fredrickson: 136 [108], 100 [75], 100 [60], 96 [32], 91 [114]*

Morris: 102 [13], 100 [68], 100 [53], 100 [39], 92[4]

Dunderdale: 145 [53]**, 114 [27], 92 [26]**, 90 [-11], 73 [-32]

Foyston: 100 [107], 97 [11], 91 [-13], 88 [-4], 82 [0]

MacKay: 100 [38], 100 [-2], 100 [-15], 93 [-15], 60 [-40]

Oatman: 87 [0], 83 [-38], 70 [0], 68 [3], 66 [5]

---------------------------------------

*WCHL numbers - Fredrickson played only 4 seasons in the PCHL, so I had to take his best WCHL/WHL season to complete the comparison.

**only goals counted, which would obviously overrate Dunderdale, who was an unbalanced goalscorer.

---------------------------------------

Fairly interesting results, I think. My thoughts on the results:

- Taylor is not as far ahead of the pack as I had expected.

- when we only look at Vs2 numbers, there is little to choose between the tier of players after Taylor which includes Fredrickson, Morris, Dunderdale, Foyston and MacKay. The relatively small differences in scoring results within this group motivated me to do the second comparison (scoring vs. next best scorer on team - I will abbreviate this as VsNext from here on out) to see if I could shake any more differences out.

- I was surprised to find that Frank Fredrickson's vsNext scoring numbers are actually the best of the entire group, including Taylor. Those Victoria teams were really bad offensively except for Fredrickson, and featured only a single other 1st team all-star at forward (Dunderdale in 1921-22) in the six years Fredrickson played in Victoria.

- Dunderdale's 1st and 3rd best seasons are difficult to evaluate because assists were not recorded, and the Vs2 numbers probably overstate his performance.

- Mickey MacKay's VsNext numbers are somewhat disturbing (he only led his team in scoring once), as is the huge fall-off from his 4th to 5th best seasons. MacKay was an excellent defensive player (being specifically good at the hook-check, which he probably learned from Frank Nighbor), but offensively he looks to me like the weakest of the group below Taylor. I have also found some evidence (posted in the Dirt thread) that MacKay was "unaccustomed" to playing the right wing. He obviously did play there, but I get the impression that he was really a natural center who moonlighted on the wing, rather than a regular winger.

- the gap in ATD rank between MacKay and the rest of the pack below Taylor is hard to justify.

- there is surprisingly little overlap between Morris' and Foyston's best offensive seasons. The two have only two seasons of overlap in the above analysis. They seem to have largely taken turns being the offensive go-to guy in Seattle.

- Eddie Oatman was clearly not in the same league as the best offensive players in the PCHA, and cannot be realistically compared to them. The gap between he and the guys ahead of him is actually greater than the gap between Taylor and the pack. This has been discussed before, but the numbers make it clearer.

- it's a shame we don't have more information on the intangibles of Morris and Dunderdale and...Taylor. I would actually like to see some real research done into Fred Taylor's intangibles because I have come across scant mention of him backchecking or doing much of anything besides scoring in the periodicals of the time. I get the feeling that Taylor may be getting credit for intangibles he does not possess because of the time be spent at rover/defense. Taylor was a great puckcarrier and in the pre-forward pass era, defensemen and rovers carried the puck moreso than forwards, meaning that it might have been sensible to put a stud puck carrier like Taylor back on defense whether or not he was much of a checker. But I don't really know, and Taylor may have been strong defensively. We have the resources to find out now, and I'd like to actually see some evidence one way or the other.

- I think the VsNext numbers are fairly valuable for seperating offensive performances at the margins, as they give a clear indication as to how much help and how much checking attention a player received. I would suggest a rough system for assigning value within the brackets at 20% of the number shown and adding that to the Vs2 total for a sort of "offensive value" metric. Using such an (admittedly rough) system, the above seasons would come out as follows, in terms of offensive value:

Taylor: 134 [139]
Fredrickson: 136 [108]
Dunderdale: 145 [53]
Taylor: 126 [86]
Taylor: 124 [44]
Taylor: 109 [67]
Foyston: 100 [107]
Dunderdale: 114 [27]
Fredrickson: 100 [75]
Morris: 100 [68]
Fredrickson: 91 [114]
Fredrickson: 100 [60]
Morris: 100 [53]
Morris: 100 [39]
MacKay: 100 [38]
Morris: 102 [13]
Fredrickson: 96 [32] // Taylor: 102 [2]
Foyston: 97 [11]
MacKay: 100 [-2]
Dunderdale: 92 [26]
Morris: 92[4]
MacKay: 100 [-15]
Foyston: 91 [-13]
Dunderdale: 90 [-11]
Foyston: 88 [-4]
MacKay: 93 [-15]
Oatman: 87 [0]
Foyston: 82 [0]
Oatman: 83 [-38]
Oatman: 70 [0]
Oatman: 68 [3]
Oatman: 66 [5]
Dunderdale: 73 [-32]
MacKay: 60 [-40]

Phew...well, I leave it to the other GMs to decide what to make of all this and if, indeed, the analysis is of any value. My conversation with Devil got me thinking about incorporating some form of comparison of a player's scoring vs. his next best teammate into an offensive analysis, and this is the first fruit of that line of thought. Have at it.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:00 AM
  #284
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I posted a quote somewhere in one of these threads regarding Taylor showing strong back checking.

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Old
04-03-2011, 11:23 AM
  #285
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Kimberley selects G Ryan Miller

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Old
04-03-2011, 12:13 PM
  #286
arrbez
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To make up our skipped pick:

Inglewood selects a dominant WHA scorer, who was also a dominant NHL scorer when healthy. Two-time WHA scoring champ, four-time allstar, was the youngest player on the roster when he led the Nordiques in goal scoring en route to the 1977 Avco Cup, had seasons of 97 and 89 points in the NHL in only 67 games each. Dynamic winger:

Real Cloutier


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Old
04-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm going to bed, but two points:

1) until someone explains to me just why I'm supposed to believe that Johnny bower played behind the worst defense in the league, I think retroactive save percentage is worth exactly zero.

2) the writers never voted rollins one of the top 2 goalies in the league, and IMO, the burden is really on you to show why we should discard the postseason all-star teams. I place a huge amount of stock into pre-1967 all star teams, probably more than most GMs.
1) I always thought that the save percentage results of the 1950's was from a guy that went back into old newspapers and dig up the save results of each games played. If that so, I have a hard time to see how those stats are 'worth exactly zero', especially comparing goaltenders together.

2) It's fair argument to say that if the voters of that time didn't vote Rollins as a top-2 goaltender, he wasn't one. However, I think I demonstrated in at least 3 seasons that this is highly debatable. I think the correlation between good statistical results, mostly GAA and game played and the AS voting is too strong that I consider there's a certain bias behind it. I know the work as already been done, mostly showing that there was very few exception behind GAA and AS voting until Glenn Hall. In 1950-51, Rollins and Terry Sawchuk was undeniably the best two goaltenders in the league. However, Rollins didn't start the season in Toronto and only played 40 games, so this affected the AS voting, as Terry Sawchuk receive the FAST with 70 games (and very deserdly so) and Chuck Rayner SAST with 66 games. in 1952-53, I really don't see an argument against the fact that he was not a top-2 goaltender in the league. I was careful into my ranking of goaltenders when I done my analysis, but for me no doubt he was the best goaltender in the league. I could go as far as to say that this season was one of the best season for a goaltender in the 1950's (and I know the competition he was up against). In 1953-54, he was still a top goaltender, winning the Hart trophy and all report was that he was still light out. However, my opinion is that this season is not up to par to his previous season, perhaps not also his 1950-51 season. However, those three seasons are elite season, and I'm very certain that he was a top-2 goaltender in 1950-51 and 1952-53, and very possibly in 1953-54.

You tell me that I have the burden to show that Rollins was a top-2 goaltenders in those seasons, but in all honesty I think I just did that. If you have any question or you just disagree with some arguments I wrote, I would really like you to point out which years and for what reason you disagree with my conclusion. A lot of work has been done in my biography. I'm definitely not ''throwing feces on the wall to see if it will stick'', or something around that expression I've read numerous time in this draft.

Do anyone else that have read my biography have an opinion on the subject? Am I overrating him? I'm not looking to make him look better than he is, just trying to see where he really stand in an All-Time sense. To be honest, I even think that I'm careful when I say that Rollins should be viewed in the 30-35 range, as multiples sources could convince me to put him even higher. I just don't think I have enough solid evidence to put him higher than 30 for now.

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Old
04-03-2011, 01:07 PM
  #288
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Because of shots against? That's just how it was. High shots against does not mean bad defensive play. Look at Boston this year. They allow almost a league high in shots against, yet the goalies have strong S%. This is because a lot of those shots aren't high quality chances. Although I really do tend to find that there really isn't anything too special about the defense Bower played behind, I'm much more impressed about the defensive excellence of the forwards of those teams.
That is a very likely explanation, and of course points to one of the flaws of using save percentage as a judging criteria without having watched these players.

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04-03-2011, 01:17 PM
  #289
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Yes, I would like to get the opinion on Rollins from more people. I try to be as unbiased as possible, but maybe their is unconscious bias since we are division rivals after all

I know the all star teams probably track GAA too closely, but we have to remember that the writers saw every away team 14 times in this era. I don't know. I don't remember the details of that study, but do know that in the 1930s at least, the conclusion is incorrect.

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04-03-2011, 01:20 PM
  #290
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For the record, EB, I think Cujo is probably close to the 35th beat goalie all-time, so it's not like we are THAT far apart here.

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04-03-2011, 01:45 PM
  #291
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Great comparison sturm, though like you notes it likely overrated a one dimensional goalscorer (dunderdale). But I think it also underrated Taylor, whonwas far and away the best playmaker of the era.

Like you, however, I have seen very little of taylor's non-offensive skills.

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04-03-2011, 01:45 PM
  #292
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Green would have to be the worst defenseman in terms of defense in the ATD, no?

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04-03-2011, 01:47 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
MacKay: 100 [38], 100 [-2], 100 [-15], 93 [-15], 60 [-40]

- Mickey MacKay's VsNext numbers are somewhat disturbing (he only led his team in scoring once), as is the huge fall-off from his 4th to 5th best seasons. MacKay was an excellent defensive player (being specifically good at the hook-check, which he probably learned from Frank Nighbor), but offensively he looks to me like the weakest of the group below Taylor. I have also found some evidence (posted in the Dirt thread) that MacKay was "unaccustomed" to playing the right wing. He obviously did play there, but I get the impression that he was really a natural center who moonlighted on the wing, rather than a regular winger.

- the gap in ATD rank between MacKay and the rest of the pack below Taylor is hard to justify.
One thing to remember is that MacKay is playing on the same team as Taylor for a good chunk of his career. Basically, you're comparing him to the #2 scorer in the league and then comparing him to the #1 guy for 4-5 seasons. Another is that he had more good seasons after the PCHA folded than most of the others, so he is more than "just" a PCHA player as well.

The quote about MacKay on RW comes just after the dropping of the rover so of course he would not be used to playing wing, because it would be his third position option behind rover and center until then. Find a quote saying the same thing a year or two later and it will mean much more.

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04-03-2011, 01:50 PM
  #294
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Green would have to be the worst defenseman in terms of defense in the ATD, no?
Housley was worse in real life. But does housley's longer track record of bad defense make him better from an all-time sense? Haha.

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04-03-2011, 01:52 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yes, I would like to get the opinion on Rollins from more people. I try to be as unbiased as possible, but maybe their is unconscious bias since we are division rivals after all

I know the all star teams probably track GAA too closely, but we have to remember that the writers saw every away team 14 times in this era. I don't know. I don't remember the details of that study, but do know that in the 1930s at least, the conclusion is incorrect.
- As would I, the more the merrier. As Nalyd said, Rollins is a very interesting case, and more opinion is widely welcome. And for the record I never thought you were unfair to Rollins because we are in the same division, I value your knowledge too much to think so.

- I understand that the writers saw more of each players every year, but the fact remain that the correlation between GAA/game played and AS selection is too strong to not believe of a certain bias in them. If someone who read that knows what research we're talking about and know where to find it, it would be appreciate to give us a link. Also, on a semi-related note: how many person were voting on those awards. The less people, but more bias it can become. Perhap also the correlation was not the same in the 1930's and 1950's, but it probably was not the same set of writers who voted for the awards. Anyway, I'm not trying to ditch AS selection of, far from it, but my research shows that at least in the case of Rollins, I do not believe they were exact in the context that AST equal two best goaltender in the league. I think I showed enough evidence to at least question the selection in many years. The only year I have no doubt that Rollins should of get an AS selection (my opinion is that he was the best), if we believe it should be given to the best two goaltenders, is 1952-53. I can understand why the voters gave the SAST to Rayner in 1950-51, because he played 26 more games than Rollins, although I'm very confident Rollins played at a higher level than Rayner that season. 1953-54 is a little more sketchy, but all reports shows he was still dominant behind a terrible defence. And if you give the benefit of doubt of the voters of that time for the AS, you then also have to consider that Rollins won the Hart Trophy that season. If you consider that Rollins shouldn't of got the Hart trophy in 1953-54, which in my opinion he shouldn't of got due to the reason I gave in my biography, then I think we can make the same exercice to other seasons where Rollins didn't get AS selection, if we can give decent argument, which I believe I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
For the record, EB, I think Cujo is probably close to the 35th best goalie all-time, so it's not like we are THAT far apart here.
I'll be honest when I say that 35 is conservative on my part, as I think Rollins should be viewed a notch higher than that. Actually, I didn't wanted to throw names, but one goaltender that I always compare Rollins to in my mind is Chuck Rayner, who's prime came a little earlier than Rollins, and actually got an AS selection over Rollins in 1951 (although as I said numerous time I think Rollins was the better goaltender that season) Rayner is ranked around the #30 position by ATD cannon (right?), and I think both of them should be viewed in the same tier.

However, it's true that in the grand scheme of thing, our point of views doesn't diverge THAT much. I don't want the discussion to become nitpicking as either Rollins is #33 or #34 but whether in what tier he belongs.

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04-03-2011, 01:52 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Do anyone else that have read my biography have an opinion on the subject? Am I overrating him? I'm not looking to make him look better than he is, just trying to see where he really stand in an All-Time sense. To be honest, I even think that I'm careful when I say that Rollins should be viewed in the 30-35 range, as multiples sources could convince me to put him even higher. I just don't think I have enough solid evidence to put him higher than 30 for now.
I have read it, and will offer my opinion.

I view Rollins' performances in 1952-53 (2nd Hart) and 1953-54 (Hart winner) to be elite, and the all-star voting in those seasons is irrelevant to me. I am not as convinced as you are by Rollins' performance in his 1951-52 rookie season. He was clearly better than Broda in the regular season, but your claim that he was better than the 2nd AST winner (Rayner) seems to me rather unsubstantiated. What do you know about Rayner's performance that season to make such a judgment? I am willing to believe that Rollins was quite good in his rookie season, but I do not think you have demonstrated sufficiently that he was elite and actually the second best goalie in the league.

Rollins' playoff record is also quite shallow. This is mostly a problem of opportunity, but for better or worse, opportunity plays a large role in the legacy of these players. Rollins' only Cup win was as essentially a backup. I know there was an injury involved, but the fact is Rollins went 3-1 with a 1.71 GAA in the playoffs while Broda went 5-1 with a 1.10 GAA. I think the lion's share of the glory has to go to Broda here, and outside of that season, there's nothing much to say about Rollins' playoff record.

So we have here, in my opinion, a goalie with two elite regular season performances and a rookie year where he played very well in a platoon role, and not too much else to talk about. I think the closest comparable goalie to Rollins is probably Tim Thomas (assuming Thomas doesn't somehow **** the bed to end this season). The two have remarkably similar career arcs. I can't see ever rating Rollins in the top-30. Top-40 yes, but in the bottom half.

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04-03-2011, 02:09 PM
  #297
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Quote:
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One thing to remember is that MacKay is playing on the same team as Taylor for a good chunk of his career. Basically, you're comparing him to the #2 scorer in the league and then comparing him to the #1 guy for 4-5 seasons.
Not really. MacKay was one point behind Taylor in 2nd place in PCHA scoring in 1914-15, but other than that, none of MacKay's best scoring seasons came during Taylor's prime years. From the above analysis, MacKay's finishes in which he was outscored by a different Vancouver player are:

1916-17: MacKay 32 points vs Gord Roberts 53 (MacKay 60 Vs2)
1921-22: MacKay 26 points vs Jack Adams 30 (MacKay 100 Vs2)
1923-24: MacKay 26 points vs Art Duncan 30 (MacKay 93 Vs2)

So no, I don't really think playing with Taylor hurt MacKay in this analysis.

Quote:
Another is that he had more good seasons after the PCHA folded than most of the others, so he is more than "just" a PCHA player as well.
MacKay was 2nd in the WCHL in points in 1924-25 (18% ahead of Vancouver's second leading scorer, Frank Boucher). Outside of that, he has no other notable non-PCHA scoring finishes of which I am aware.

Quote:
The quote about MacKay on RW comes just after the dropping of the rover so of course he would not be used to playing wing, because it would be his third position option behind rover and center until then. Find a quote saying the same thing a year or two later and it will mean much more.
Point taken.

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04-03-2011, 02:19 PM
  #298
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I have read it, and will offer my opinion.

I view Rollins' performances in 1952-53 (2nd Hart) and 1953-54 (Hart winner) to be elite, and the all-star voting in those seasons is irrelevant to me. I am not as convinced as you are by Rollins' performance in his 1951-52 rookie season. He was clearly better than Broda in the regular season, but your claim that he was better than the 2nd AST winner (Rayner) seems to me rather unsubstantiated. What do you know about Rayner's performance that season to make such a judgment? I am willing to believe that Rollins was quite good in his rookie season, but I do not think you have demonstrated sufficiently that he was elite and actually the second best goalie in the league.

Rollins' playoff record is also quite shallow. This is mostly a problem of opportunity, but for better or worse, opportunity plays a large role in the legacy of these players. Rollins' only Cup win was as essentially a backup. I know there was an injury involved, but the fact is Rollins went 3-1 with a 1.71 GAA in the playoffs while Broda went 5-1 with a 1.10 GAA. I think the lion's share of the glory has to go to Broda here, and outside of that season, there's nothing much to say about Rollins' playoff record.

So we have here, in my opinion, a goalie with two elite regular season performances and a rookie year where he played very well in a platoon role, and not too much else to talk about. I think the closest comparable goalie to Rollins is probably Tim Thomas (assuming Thomas doesn't somehow **** the bed to end this season). The two have remarkably similar career arcs. I can't see ever rating Rollins in the top-30. Top-40 yes, but in the bottom half.
- Thanks for your opinion

- We mostly agree on 1952-53 and 1953-54, so let's talk about 1950-51. It's very true that I don't have anything particular on Chuck Rayner, and to a a point it's something I will agree I am missing on my assessment. However, the fact remain that Rollins was still viewed very highly that season. The Ottawa Citizen of the 28th of February wrote: ''There isn't a hotter goaltender in the league than the lanky rookie from Vanguard, Sask.''. At that time, Rollins had played 31 of the 40 games with a GAA of 1.83. He finished the season with a 1.93GAA. Is it far fetched to assume that the combination of having the best GAA in the league, taking Turk Broda's spot and the quote of the Ottawa citizen (+ the quote of Conn Smythe in my biography) makes him a top-2 goaltender that season, and playing 26 less games in a 70 schedule is what makes him lose an All-Star appearence? I don't believe so. For the record, I do have Sawchuk ahead that season, who played all 70 games and won the Calder trophy over Rollins. I believe Sawchuk and Rollins pretty much played at the same level, but Sawchuk did it for almost twice as long.

- Rollins was not the backup goaltender when the Toronto Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup in 1951. Yes, he did played less games than Broda, due to an injury, but the fact remain that when he was healthy again, he was the man of confidence and there was no doubt that it was his spot, not Broda's spot that even newspaper called a 'money goaltender'. Better statistics or not (who played more games against MTL, I honestly don't know the answer), he was the one in net when the Toronto Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup. Rollins had another incredible playoff serie in 1953, where he played 7 games against the first place Montreal Canadiens, where report said he was incredible, just like he was in the regular season. Yes, at the end it's a shallow NHL playoff resume (he did have some great playoff run outside the NHL, although I certainly agree they arn't much, aside from the fact that it just show that Rollins didn't carved in the playoffs), but it's still better than what you try to illustrate.

- I disagree with the conclusion and the comparison. My conclusion in a nutshell was as follow: three elite season (1951, 1953, 1954) one great season (1956), one good season (1952) and incredible stretch of game in 1960 and an underwhelming season in 1955. I'm fairly certain that 1953 is better than what Tim Thomas or the vast majority of goaltenders in this draft ever accomplish. Rollins is far more than a two-year wonder. However, it's definitely true that longevity is one of the big drawback of Rollins career. If Chicago didn't intentionally buried Rollins in the minor in 1958 and 1959, perhaps we would view Rollins decently higher than we see him now.

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04-03-2011, 02:25 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Okay here's a less ridiculous reason: Player X would fill a perfect need for team with skipped picks, but I'd really like him to fall to me. I'll just pick Player Y for them instead, who is slightly worse, but could be seen by some as equal, and spun as a better fit for that team, maybe...
OK, fair enough.

Didn't really see it as that important. I know who I want next and in my mind I had already given up on them. As a veteran of many MLD/AAA drafts, my mindset is "there's always someone else out there"...

not only had I written off the guys high on my shortlist, I had also written off a certain goalie, LW, and defenseman, guys I am not interested in for this draft, but whom other GMs needing those positions SHOULD be very interested in now, and who I'd love to take in the first two rounds of the MLD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
I have ran the ATD many times and never let the situation get this bad. AGGRESSIVE recruiting of replacement GMs should have happened rounds ago and definitely should be done now. The very person partially responsible for the depth of this situation ought not be the guy who gets all the fun of picking, especiall when it undermines the integrity of the league. It is crap.
wow. Have you noticed how fast this draft is going, dspite my best efforts to stop it from getting this way? In the matter of a few days, a guy can go from having two missed picks (no big deal) to five (let's start looking for a replacement) This isn't something that's been going on for weeks, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Phew...well, I leave it to the other GMs to decide what to make of all this and if, indeed, the analysis is of any value. My conversation with Devil got me thinking about incorporating some form of comparison of a player's scoring vs. his next best teammate into an offensive analysis, and this is the first fruit of that line of thought. Have at it.
Thank you for introducing another way to look at it.

Biggest concern - assists.

I think if you were to make adjustments to account for how few assists were awarded back then, you would probably find that A) Taylor is that far ahead of the pack, and B) Oatman is not that far behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Do anyone else that have read my biography have an opinion on the subject? Am I overrating him? I'm not looking to make him look better than he is, just trying to see where he really stand in an All-Time sense. To be honest, I even think that I'm careful when I say that Rollins should be viewed in the 30-35 range, as multiples sources could convince me to put him even higher. I just don't think I have enough solid evidence to put him higher than 30 for now.
Just a clarification on his 1953 numbers, because I recall you saying it was better than anything Hasek ever did, or something like that.

My stats say Rollins stopped 1952 of 2127 shots, for a sv% of .918. Sawchuk was at .929, McNeill at .920, and Rollins was tied for 3rd.

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04-03-2011, 02:31 PM
  #300
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- I have three replacements lined up, one should be a sure thing, the other two are most likely in. If Zamboni Mania, BM67, and/or MXD come in here and start making picks, they are legit.

- VI, considering you've taken over the drafting for SaltyStyle and thatguy, shouldn't you be making their two outstanding picks sometime?

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