HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2011 Draft Thread X

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-03-2011, 04:25 PM
  #326
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1) Taylor really was so good that he inflated the offense of everyone around him like Orr in Boston.
I think this is probably true for goalscoring, but I think it's unlikely the case for assists, given the nature of how assists were awarded at the time. I'm not really sure if it was possible in that era for one player to inflate another's assist totals.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:26 PM
  #327
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
This is probably true, though in that case the scoring numbers also probably underrate Morris, Fredrickson and MacKay relative to goalscorers Dunderdale and Foyston. As BM67 points out, in fairness to MacKay we should probably include his one great WCHL season in the analysis, as well (I have done so for Fredrickson) - so add a 100 [18] to MacKay's resume for our purposes. The more I learn about the PCHA and its players, the more I think the hierarchy of forwards (in terms of scoring) breaks down like so:

Taylor
-------------------
Fredrickson
Morris
-------------------
MacKay
Dunderdale
Foyston
-------------------
...everybody else

Now this doesn't take position or intangibles into account and ignores Fredrickson's 1926-27 NHL season, but I think that's a fair accounting of the hierarchy of scorers among this group.
That completely ignores longevity, doesn't it?

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:31 PM
  #328
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,285
vCash: 500
Nighthawks draft Mike Fisher.



The 11-year NHL pro is 6'1 and 208 lbs but can skate like the wind on breakaways caused by turnovers, his most frequent method of scoring. The Selke finalist in 2006 helped the Sens reach the Stanley Cup Finals the following postseason, scoring 4 goals and 7 points in the playoffs and playing solid defensively. He was top-10 in NHL game winning goals his last full season in Ottawa, scoring a career-best 25 goals, 53 points playing second line minutes.

Quote:
Is great on the forecheck and can kill penalties with aplomb. Owns good speed and is extremely tenacious. Has excellent two-way ability. Also possesses a great shot.

VanIslander is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:35 PM
  #329
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,860
vCash: 500
Raptor just barely missed out on Van Boxmeer, but his second choice is still around. A big part of the recent success of Detroit:

Nicklas Kronwall, D

Leaf Lander is up

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:37 PM
  #330
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
I am 100% serious when I ask this question so please don't make me feel like an idiot, even if it may be an idiotic question. It also may have already been partially discussed and I can't find the actual answer to this question even though I've been looking.

So with VanI's roster posted he isn't even listing Mitchell, Kurtenbach, etc. as on his team and said that basically their plane caught fire, crashed, burned, whatever. Are those in theory his spares? Or are they just totally out of the ATD? Are we basically giving him mulligans on those selections? Or are they going to be placed back into the drafting pool? Whatever exactly is going with that?

vecens24 is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:41 PM
  #331
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Oatman might come off somewhat better with adjusted assists. One thing about the numbers on Oatman is that they show he was not leetching off of superior offensive players. His teams just plain weren't that great offensively.
That's what I have noticed, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- I draw the same conclusion as you on Loktev, although being on the AS team in the WC in 1965 and named the best forward on the WC in 1966 is a very fine accomplishment. Playing all your career outside the NHL in the 1960's and before will always draw some criticism, it's just the way it goes. I see Loktev as a very fine offensive minded 4th liner with grit, but he's not the kind of player I would be confident having in my top-6.

- Here's the stats I found on HockeyDatabase:

1954-55:

PlayerGPAvgPCT.
Harry Lumley, T691.93.929
Terry Sawchuk, D681.94.926
Jacques Plante, M522.10.926
Charlie Hodge, M142.27.917
Gump Worsley, NY653.00.916
Hank Bassen, C213.00.914
John Henderson, B452.47.903
Jim Henry, B273.06.899
Al Rollins, C443.39.893

1955-56:

PlayerGPAvgPCT.
Jacques Plante, M641.86.929
Glenn Hall, D702.10.922
Gump Worsley, NY702.84.922
Terry Sawchuk, B682.60.913
Al Rollins, C582.97.913
Harry Lumley, T592.70.904
Hank Bassen, C123.42.881

1956-57:

PlayerGPAvgPCT.
Glenn Hall, D702.23.927
Terry Sawchuk, B342.38.921
Jacques Plante, M612.00.920
Don Simmons262.42.915
Gump Worsley, NY683.24.907
Ed Chadwick, T702.66.905
Al Rollins, C703.17.901
Norm Defelice, B103.00.889

Those are from the hockey compendium and took directly from HockeyDB (minimum 10 games). Are they the same for you? Those statistics are interesting, but are all stats past Rollins' prime. It would be very nice to see those results for the 1950-51 to the 1953-54 season. If you have them, please post them! (I won't say it enough!)
Those are the same numbers I have for those seasons.

What I have only goes back to the 1952-53 season.

seventieslord is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:42 PM
  #332
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,860
vCash: 500
Techically, they are still on his team but he can add/drop them at the conclusion of the draft. He just preemptively let is know they are dropped in a hilarious manner.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:42 PM
  #333
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Techically, they are still on his team but he can add/drop them at the conclusion of the draft. He just preemptively let is know they are dropped in a hilarious manner.
Oh you can add and drop people if you want?

vecens24 is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:45 PM
  #334
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Oh you can add and drop people if you want?
I don't know if that was ever decided.

Taking over for an absentee rookie GM is a unique situation.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:47 PM
  #335
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't know if that was ever decided.

Taking over for an absentee rookie GM is a unique situation.
Oh I totally agree and I doubt I would have much issue with just about anything that would happen with that because it is such a unique thing. But still, I just kinda wanted concrete answers on the subject just to know.

vecens24 is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 04:54 PM
  #336
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
That completely ignores longevity, doesn't it?
What longevity? You mean non-peak longevity? That's out to five seasons, which covers all of the really good offensive years (and some of the bad ones) for more than half of the players involved (Dunderdale, Foyston, Oatman and MacKay). Having a professional peak longer than five seasons in this era was really not the norm. For the remaining three, here are their other noteworthy offensive seasons:

Taylor: 90 [-11]

Fredrickson: 86 [29] (3rd Hart voting) *consolidated NHL*

Morris: 75 [-29], 65 [-8]

Fredrickson's "other" season (likely better than his 6th best) is the best of the bunch, and Taylor's 6th best season is quite good, as well. Morris contributed a couple more "good seasons", though in the split-league era I don't tend to look at any Vs2 numbers below 80 as particularly significant, especially if a guy isn't leading his own team. So taking "longevity" into account, the tiers I laid out change not one bit. The three guys at the top all rise a bit further and Fredrickson moves closer to Taylor and further from Morris.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:02 PM
  #337
overpass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboni Mania View Post
Nighthawks draft Mike Fisher
I've watched Fisher's whole career in Ottawa, so I'll add a scouting report.

Great tools. Fast skater, very hard snap shot with good release off the rush. High motor, forechecks hard and pursues the puck hard, likes to finish his check and hits hard.

These positive attributes are well-known around the league, but I've always felt that Fisher could be a bit overrated by people who didn't watch him a lot. Why don't I think Fisher is as good as his general reputation?

His hockey intelligence is average at best, which holds him back. Defensively, he hasn't always been Ottawa's go-to defensive centre, and the guys who have been ahead of him have had superior smarts and positioning. His faceoff ability is also average at best, so Ottawa has used other players for the big defensive zone draws.

Offensively, he's a limited player, and a bit of a one-man show. He can create offence out of nothing with his speed and shot, especially off turnovers. But his offensive vision is poor, which is a liability for a centre. He had success playing with Alfredsson, who was a good match as a very smart playmaking winger who can adapt his game to his linemates.

His offensive game sounds more suited to the wing than centre, but Fisher hasn't been comfortable on the wing when tried there. He has said so himself, and from my observation he doesn't play well off the puck offensively in terms of finding space - he is more comfortable doing simple things like pursuing the puck, shooting the puck, and driving the net.

Kelly Miller might be a good fit as a smart, playmaking winger, so good move if that is your intention.

overpass is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:04 PM
  #338
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,285
vCash: 500
Nighthawks draft Reg Hamilton.



The NHL rearguard played 424 NHL games and registered 412 PIM from 1936-1946, never sent down, recording a decent 108 points given his stay at home style, leading Toronto in blueline scoring twice, including the season he won the Stanley Cup as a Maple Leaf.

Quote:
Reg Hamilton was probably best known for being a tough defenseman who always finished his checks. Many considered the Hamilton elbows the most lethal in the league until a young man named Gordon Howe came along.

VanIslander is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:21 PM
  #339
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
The Red Wings select Vladimir Zábrodský, C.

DoMakc is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:24 PM
  #340
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
The Red Wings select Vladimir Zábrodský, C.
I think he's just as good as Bobrov, so in some sense you got good value...

Of course, there are some managers who say that they wouldn't even take him in the AA draft due to his questionable competition....

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:27 PM
  #341
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,285
vCash: 500
Nighthawks draft Roland Stoltz and Lasse Bjorn.





Quote:
Defenseman Stoltz played the best years of his hockey career alongside Lars Bjorn, and this famous defense duo was regarded as one of the best in the history of Swedish and European hockey.

With Stoltz on the team, Djurgarden won the Swedish national championship title six times in a row. In the lineup for the Swedish national squad, Stoltz played in 199 official games without interruption from the fall of 1956 until the 1968 Olympic hockey tournament in Grenoble. In Colorado Springs in 1962, he scored the winning goal against the U.S. nationals in a crucial game for Tre Kronor on the road to the gold medal.

Stoltz twice became world champion in 1957 and again in 1962, but the highlight of his career was the 1963 World Championship in Stockholm, when he was voted best defenseman. He once admitted that his toughest opponent was Soviet forward Veniamin Alexandrov.

He is recognized as a staunch and selfless player, qualities that epitomize the Swedish style of hockey playing. He was inducted into the International Ice Hockey Federation's Hall of Fame in 1999.

VanIslander is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:39 PM
  #342
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,379
vCash: 500
Picking for Montreal AAA HC

Selecting elite tennisman Josef "Papi" Malecek

MXD is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:47 PM
  #343
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think he's just as good as Bobrov, so in some sense you got good value...

Of course, there are some managers who say that they wouldn't even take him in the AA draft due to his questionable competition....
I told a pal of mine about ATD, and he asked who actually do we pick, after hearing the answer "Everybody", he asked "Even Bobrov?", yeah, why not he dominated his compitition. "Sure he did," says he, "but only because he was the only plyer in that league who was able to skate in every direction".

I thought it was funny. And particullary true.

DoMakc is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:48 PM
  #344
BM67
Registered User
 
BM67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In "The System"
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,579
vCash: 500
The Peterborough Petes will select with the second of their skipped picks, pick #763, the first American-born goalie to star in the NHL, Mike Karakas

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=18576

BM67 is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:50 PM
  #345
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
The Peterborough Petes will select with the second of their skipped picks, pick #763, the first American-born goalie to star in the NHL, Mike Karakas

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=18576
Funny. I thought of picking Karakas. That would have given the Montreal AAA HC three goalies, which doesn't seem like the best idea at this point, but... y'know... Hextall...?

MXD is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:54 PM
  #346
VanIslander
17/07/2014 ATD RIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,285
vCash: 500
Nighthawks draft Serge Bernier.



The speedy right winger was 2nd in Flyers scoring as an NHL rookie and was 2nd in Kings scoring his last NHL season before jumping to the more lucrative-paying WHA where he played in six straight all-star games, recording 566 points in 417 WHA games, 4th all-time in WHA career scoring. He had been top-10 in scoring each WHA season except for the injury-shortened year he only played 58 games, yet had 78 points. He was a 2nd team all-star in 1975 and the playoff MVP in 1977 when he led the league in postseason points and won the championship.

Quote:
Right-winger Serge Bernier was a fine playmaker and scorer in the NHL who became an explosive force with the WHA's Quebec Nordiques. He was a good skater whose 190-pound frame allowed him to stand his ground in front of the net.

Bernier impressed with 23 goals as a Philadelphia rookie in 1970-71 playing with Jim Johnson and Bill Lesuk. The talented forward was traded in 1971-72 to the L.A. Kings in the deal that brought Bill Flett and Ross Lonsberry to the Flyers. Bernier register a career high 68 points for the Kings in 1972-73 before jumping to the WHA.

The high-flying Nordiques were the perfect fit for Bernier. He represented Canada at the 1974 Summit Series versus the USSR and scored 54 goals in 1974-75 when he teamed with Rejean Houle and Michel Parizeau. Bernier was placed on the WHA second all-star team and was a hero at Le Colisee. The next season he led all playoff scorers 14 goals and 36 points as the Nords won the Avco Cup. Following the victory he was named the most valuable player in the playoffs.

Bernier continued to be force for Quebec through the 1978-79 season and was retained by the franchise when it merged with the NHL in 1979-80. Bernier battled assorted injuries and was more of a role player for the club before announcing his retirement in 1981.

VanIslander is online now  
Old
04-03-2011, 05:56 PM
  #347
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,593
vCash: 500
The fireworks select W Danny Grant

-4x Top 5 in PP goals
-3x NHL ASG Participant

markrander87 is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 06:00 PM
  #348
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,379
vCash: 500
On Joe Lamb



Quote:
Right-winger Joe Lamb competed for seven different NHL teams in the 1920s and '30s. He was a decent scorer with a hard-nosed edge to his game that earned him respect throughout the league.

Born in Sussex, New Brunswick, Lamb played three years of senior with the local Dairy Kings club before heading to Montreal to play for several clubs at the same level. In January 1928 he was signed as a free agent by the Montreal Maroons then scored 13 points in 21 games. After playing most of the next season in Montreal, he was sent to the Ottawa Senators in exchange for George Boucher.

During the 1929-30 season, Lamb scored a personal best 29 goals skating with Frank Finnigan and Hec Kilrea. The rugged forward also led the NHL with 119 minutes in penalties. He proceeded to go on a grand tour of the NHL in the '30s by suiting up for the New York Americans, Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, St. Louis Eagles, and Detroit Red Wings. Lamb also had a second go around with the Americans and Maroons as clubs constantly saw him as an important figure who could augment their line up. He retired in 1940 after playing two years with the AHL's Springfield Indians
Joe Lamb became the first player to wear #99 during a hockey game, on Nov. 10th 1934, which was also the first game during which a penalty shot was called.

Lamb played both C and RW during his career.

MXD is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 06:07 PM
  #349
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Great post on the PCHA assists, sturm.

There was a thread recently in the HOH section about teammates finishing at the top of the league in assists, and I remember it happened with Moore and Henri Richard in Montreal an the big 3 in Pittsburgh. Also, not surprisingly, Boston in the 70s routinely dominated the assist leaderboard.

So 3 possible explanations:

1) Taylor really was so good that he inflated the offense of everyone around him like Orr in Boston.

2) Vancouver played a different style from other teams. In hockey's early days, most offense came from individual rushes - maybe Vancouver played a more passing-oriented system than other teams. This would be consistent with what I read that Taylor was the first player to use playmaking as a first option for creating offense.

3) Vancouver's scorekeeper may have given out assists much more liberally than scorekeepers in other cities.
If 3 is true, all teams would have been affected equally.

Here is the real reason why so many Vancouver players managed such high assists placements:

Goals for, 1912:

Van, 102
Vic, 81
Nwm, 78

1913:

Van, 84
Vic, 68
Nwm, 67

1914:

Vic, 80
Van, 76
Nwm, 75

1915:

Van, 115
Por, 91
Vic 64

1916:

Van, 75
Vic, 74
Por, 71
Sea, 68

1917:

Van, 131
Sea, 125
Por, 114
Spo, 89

1918:

Van, 70
Sea, 67
Por, 63

1919:

Van, 72
Sea, 66
Vic, 44

1920:

Van, 75
Sea, 59
Vic, 57

1921:

Van, 86
Sea, 77
Vic, 71

1922:

Van, 77
Sea, 65
Vic, 61

1923:

Van, 116
Sea, 100
Vic, 94

1924:

Van, 87
Sea, 84
Vic, 78

I need exactly one finger to figure out how many seasons Vancouver didn't lead the league in GF.

jarek is offline  
Old
04-03-2011, 06:11 PM
  #350
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,860
vCash: 500
That's pretty good evidence that the 70s Boston analogy is a good one (though the millionaire's lead over everyone else is less extreme).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.