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Old
04-12-2011, 01:38 PM
  #901
Leafs Forever
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When things start to really slow is pretty much the best standard I would set right now. I like the pace thus far, and apparently we got a number of more GMs who still plan to review, but still lots of time for it to slow down.

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04-13-2011, 12:16 AM
  #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Cincinnati Fireworks drop Assistant coach Pete Muldoon and add Defensive spare Larry Hillman
Aww, why the F would you do that to me?

#2 on my list of available defensemen.

Hell, looking at who my favourite 7 available D-men are, even if I got every single one of them in the MLD, I still might not like it!

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Old
04-13-2011, 08:38 AM
  #903
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An interesting article on Mark Tinordi. From the St. Paul Pioneer Press - October 6, 1991:

Quote:
TINORDI SYMBOL OF HOPE STARS HOLD FOR FUTURE

No one symbolized the Minnesota North Stars' turnaround - and no one symbolizes their hope for continued success in the future - than defenseman Mark Tinordi.
Three years ago, he was an awkward goon for the New York Rangers. And as recently as the first third of last season, Tinordi was considered a tough guy with limited offensive skills who had good enough tenacity to take a regular shift for a below-average defensive team. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

On Dec. 11, the North Stars sent offensive-style defenseman Larry Murphy, the point man on their power play, to Pittsburgh. In return, they got defensive-minded Jim Johnson and Craig Dahlquist. Needing a defenseman to play the point on the power play, coach Bob Gainey gave the job to Tinordi. It turned out to be one of Gainey's best moves in his first season in charge.

``Tinordi took off after Gainey put him on the point,'' said Jack Ferreira, the former North Stars general manager who now holds that post for the expansion San Jose Sharks. ``It looked like Tinordi got an instant boost of confidence and that helped his entire game.''

Over the season's final few months, as the North Stars positioned themselves for their playoff run, Tinordi was often the dominant player on the ice. Unafraid to join plays offensively and even more aggressive at breaking up plays defensively, the 6-4, 205-pounder became a force. He led Minnesota defensemen in goals (5), assists (27), points (32) and penalty minutes (191). In the playoffs, he, like most of his teammates, shined.

Tinordi tied a club record with five postseason goals as the North Stars, the 16th-best regular-season club, upset No. 1 Chicago, No. 2 St. Louis and defending champion Edmonton before losing to Pittsburgh in the Stanley Cup finals. It was a short summer for Minnesota hockey fans. The regular season started Saturday night, about four months after the last playoff game. This season, the North Stars won't sneak up on anybody. Neither will Tinordi.

Expectations are high. Hockey Digest listed Tinordi as the top defensive defenseman in the NHL, the only North Star ranked in the top three at any position. USA Today called him one of the league's top 10 all-around defensemen.

``I put high expectations on myself,'' said Tinordi, 25. ``I proved that if I'm given a chance, I can produce.

``My first couple of years in the league were frustrating. The Rangers wanted me to play the goon and I wanted to be in the National Hockey League so I did what I was told. Thankfully, Jack got me out of there.''

Ferreira, the Rangers' scouting director before taking the Minnesota g.m. job, saw potential in Tinordi. So he acquired the defenseman at the start of the 1988-89 season in a seven-player deal that sent Brian Lawton, the NHL's first-overall draft pick in 1983, to New York. The deal has turned out dramatically in the North Stars' favor.

``It's been great to see Mark develop,'' said Dave Gagner, the North Stars' top all-around player. ``I think he's got a chance to be one of the best defensemen in the game. He's tough and he's a lot better with the puck than some people think.''
A year ago, defense was the North Stars' weakness, which wasn't a good sign because Gainey emphasizes defense. That was one major reason the North Stars got off to a terrible start.
I post this about Tinordi because I realize he is probably a guy who Rick and I both saw but about whom many younger GMs here know very little. It's sort of easy for me to forget that not everyone here is old enough even to remember early 90's hockey. At any rate, Tinordi was a very tough guy (originally really just a goon, as the article mentions) who developed into one of the NHL's best defensive-defensemen (his offense never really fully blossomed, as the article suggests it might have) in the first half of the 90's. His prime was basically from 1990-91 until 1995-96 (arguably his best season - though he was also strong in the playoffs for Washington in the year they got creamed by Detroit in the finals), and in that period, he was one of the league's best and nastiest defensive defensemen. Tinordi got banged up a lot at his peak owing to his style of play, generally playing only 60-something games per season during that period, and I think that hurt him among the all-star voters.

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Old
04-13-2011, 08:50 AM
  #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
#2 on my list of available defensemen.

Hell, looking at who my favourite 7 available D-men are, even if I got every single one of them in the MLD, I still might not like it!
Really? The one position I'm most excited about is defense for the MLD. Looking at the crop of picks the last several rounds of the ATD, I can't help but think X,Y and Z are better. In fact, the list of starters on the blueline is solid for me. As is coaches and left wing. I'm petrified at center ice. And a little scared at right wing.

I live for the MLDs (MLD, AAA, AA, etc). I was pleased as punch to come in to the ATD at the back end and help out a wayward team because I don't think the draft gets interesting until after the first 400-500 picks. Are there undrafteds who were deserving of Top-1000 selection but weren't? HELL YA! Are there guys previously never drafted (off the board entirely) who ought to be considered? I've got some more this year. I love to dig, dig, dig into hockey history. Occasionally, one finds a nugget in research. What an interesting process!

May the MLD 2011 be the best ever. Expected start date: September 1st.
(Why then? Well, there's no way in hell the ATD will be done before the middle of June at the earliest, probably early July, and I go on vacation in August for three weeks and would like nothing more than to have the minor league draft respect summer vacations and begin in September! Of course, if the MLD were to start before the end of June, then that's another matter. But as TDMM and 70slord say, what's the rush? There's no hurry. Go slow and get the best result.)

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Old
04-13-2011, 08:54 AM
  #905
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To repeat: If the MLD hasn't begun by the end of June it ought to wait until the beginning of September.

But then again, as seventieslord and EagleBelfour made clear to me before, if everyone else wants to do something different, then to hell with me.

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04-13-2011, 09:00 AM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
To repeat: If the MLD hasn't begun by the end of June it ought to wait until the beginning of September.

But then again, as seventieslord and EagleBelfour made clear to me before, if everyone else wants to do something different, then to hell with me.
Is it normal that if the vast majority want something that we go with it?

And if the MLD start if September, I'll probably get a team this time around.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:35 PM
  #907
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Agree, if the mld doesn't start before July (and it probably wouldn't), then Sept 1 is a good start date.

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04-13-2011, 01:05 PM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
An interesting article on Mark Tinordi. From the St. Paul Pioneer Press - October 6, 1991:



I post this about Tinordi because I realize he is probably a guy who Rick and I both saw but about whom many younger GMs here know very little. It's sort of easy for me to forget that not everyone here is old enough even to remember early 90's hockey. At any rate, Tinordi was a very tough guy (originally really just a goon, as the article mentions) who developed into one of the NHL's best defensive-defensemen (his offense never really fully blossomed, as the article suggests it might have) in the first half of the 90's. His prime was basically from 1990-91 until 1995-96 (arguably his best season - though he was also strong in the playoffs for Washington in the year they got creamed by Detroit in the finals), and in that period, he was one of the league's best and nastiest defensive defensemen. Tinordi got banged up a lot at his peak owing to his style of play, generally playing only 60-something games per season during that period, and I think that hurt him among the all-star voters.
according to TOI estimates, Tinordi ranked 24th, 19th, and 5th in TOI in the 1991-1993 seasons, not too shabby at all.

Those were the only years he got significant PP time, which boosted his TOI more into the range you don't normally see defense-first guys in. In 1991-1994, he ranked 17th, 24th, 2nd, and 26th in non-PP TOI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
I'm petrified at center ice.
Yeah, me too.

Quote:
Expected start date: September 1st.
(Why then? Well, there's no way in hell the ATD will be done before the middle of June at the earliest, probably early July
Are you ****ing serious? It is April 13th right now. How the F long do you think I want each playoff round to run?

I'm thinking something like 3 days for the prelims that get us down to 32 teams, then 7, 5, 3, 3, 3, with a voting day in between each. Let's say i have to extend those periods to two days to get more votes, that's still 36 days total from the end of assassinations, which hopefully is next week sometime. How do you get "early July" from this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustOneOfTheGuys View Post
But then again, as seventieslord and EagleBelfour made clear to me before, if everyone else wants to do something different, then to hell with me.
is this really necessary?

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Old
04-13-2011, 01:26 PM
  #909
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Bios posted lately:

Fred Shero: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=229

just a reposting of the novel from last draft. Genius coach, top-10 and IMO higher than that.

Pierre Turgeon: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=230

very underrated player. I realize he is a "second line or bust" type player, but there is no need for the "or bust". He's a second liner, period. Even with 32 teams, there is just way too much offensive ability there to deny him. his past falls are nothing more than a case of a recent player getting unfairly raked over the coals. Check out the offensive comparison; he produced as well as almost any 2nd line center. I realize some guys (Forsberg, Gilmour, Modano, Lindros) bring so much in other departments that their overall packages are more impressive. But Malkin, Nieuwendyk, Smith, Smith, Goyette, MacLeish, McGee, Staal, Sloan, Ronty and O'Connor? Not close to enough to match the massive gaps in long-term production delivered.

Jack Adams: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=230

He's a "short peak" kind of player, about average offensively for a 2nd liner. He seems like a "crash the net" type, based on some of the quotes I found. His reputation for roughness is pretty well-earned, yet, it is his skating and rushing that is most often discussed. This isn't 100% what I thought I'd find; I thought it would be about the opposite mix. UH is right about his leadership in Ottawa, too.

Bob Nevin: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=235

A very fun player to do a bio on, and I loved what I found, too. Defensive RWs are not aplenty here, and he does the job pretty well, while also providing enough ES offense to be a passable 2nd line glue guy. His best 10 years for offensive percentages are collectively about 4% lower than Prentice's, and the impression I get of his overall game is that he's just a smidge below, too. On the other hand, he was a longtime captain and has a better playoff record. His 1975 is also highly underrated - led the 107-point Kings in goals and assists, led the team in +/- while checking the league's best players, and was their top PK forward, along with Goring. He had 5 points in Hart voting but I didn't include it in the bio as significant because I don't know if it was just a homer 1st place vote - I'd rather that 5 people saw him as top-3, but I can't say for sure.

Murray Oliver: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=240

Awfully boring player. He was hard to find information on. He was the kind of guy who just slipped under the radar despite three top-10s in points. He was a good checker (but not great, I gather), and a very good penalty killer. he was small and not a physical player. Very good ES scorer. he should be above average offensively for a 3rd line C, below average defensively and physically. But complemented properly, which I believe he is, he should be effective.

Wade Redden: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=241

reposted his MLD2010 bio, with some new scouting reports in there. Another overly criticized modern player; it seems prectically everyone has forgotten that he was one of the best defensemen in the world just 5 years ago.

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Old
04-14-2011, 03:41 PM
  #910
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With the assassination thread slowing down, how is this for a schedule? Voting opens on Sunday, voting deadline is Wednesday. The assassination thread is open this entire time of course.

Regular season results released on Thursday, exactly 2 weeks after the draft ended.

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04-14-2011, 04:53 PM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
With the assassination thread slowing down, how is this for a schedule? Voting opens on Sunday, voting deadline is Wednesday. The assassination thread is open this entire time of course.

Regular season results released on Thursday, exactly 2 weeks after the draft ended.
TheDevilMadeMe's favorite picks by round.

Not including my own team picks because I find it annoying when GMs do things like that. *This is from a quick scan of the draft list, so nobody be in tears if I missed your favorite steal:

1. *Jaromir Jagr at 30
2. *Sergei Makarov at 75
3. *Turk Broda at 95, Doug Bentley at 110
4. *Moose Johnson at 151
5. *Georges Boucher at 163
6. *Vladimir Martinec at 225, Art Ross at 233
7. *Georges Vezina at 250
8. *Patrik Elias at 319
9. *Tommy Dunderdale at 328, Vitaly Davydov at 329
10. *George Hay at 363, Hugh Lehmen at 372
11. *Ivan Hlinka at 422, Pit Lepine at 423
12. *Tommy Smith at 452
13. *Dan Bain at 510
14. *Tommy Gorman at 559
15. *Murray Murdoch at 570
16. *Bernie Nicholls at 602
17. *Bobby Rowe at 644, Mike Keenan at 652
18. *Charlie McVeigh at 697, Brian Rolston at 701, Lorne Carr at 711
19. *Andrei Markov at 725, Vasili Pervukhin at 736, Dubbie Kerr at 747, Mike Richards at 751
20. *Viktor Shalimov at 789, Jaroslav Holik at 791
21. *Fred Scanlan at 821
22. Evgeni Nabokov at 861, Slava Bykov at 869, Sergei Kaspustin at 877
23. *Paul Haynes at 888, Jeff Brown at 918, Cecil Blachford at 919
24. *Rich Preston at 939
25. *Miroslav Dvorak at 967, Jan Starsi at 989

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04-14-2011, 06:10 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
TheDevilMadeMe's favorite picks by round.

Not including my own team picks because I find it annoying when GMs do things like that. *This is from a quick scan of the draft list, so nobody be in tears if I missed your favorite steal:

1. *Jaromir Jagr at 30
2. *Sergei Makarov at 75
3. *Turk Broda at 95, Doug Bentley at 110
4. *Moose Johnson at 151
5. *Georges Boucher at 163
6. *Vladimir Martinec at 225, Art Ross at 233
7. *Georges Vezina at 250
8. *Patrik Elias at 319
9. *Tommy Dunderdale at 328, Vitaly Davydov at 329
10. *George Hay at 363, Hugh Lehmen at 372
11. *Ivan Hlinka at 422, Pit Lepine at 423
12. *Tommy Smith at 452
13. *Dan Bain at 510
14. *Tommy Gorman at 559
15. *Murray Murdoch at 570
16. *Bernie Nicholls at 602
17. *Bobby Rowe at 644, Mike Keenan at 652
18. *Charlie McVeigh at 697, Brian Rolston at 701, Lorne Carr at 711
19. *Andrei Markov at 725, Vasili Pervukhin at 736, Dubbie Kerr at 747, Mike Richards at 751
20. *Viktor Shalimov at 789, Jaroslav Holik at 791
21. *Fred Scanlan at 821
22. Evgeni Nabokov at 861, Slava Bykov at 869, Sergei Kaspustin at 877
23. *Paul Haynes at 888, Jeff Brown at 918, Cecil Blachford at 919
24. *Rich Preston at 939
25. *Miroslav Dvorak at 967, Jan Starsi at 989
I think Jeff Brown was the late-round pick of the draft in terms of filling a need. The Petes really could have used someone to play the point on the power play, and he was clearly the best available at that point.

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Old
04-14-2011, 06:28 PM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
10. * Hugh Lehman 372
12. * Tommy Smith at 452
25. * Jan Starsi at 989
Thanks. I thought so too, though I am also partial to Vladimir Lutchenko at 221st in the 6th round, which was well received by other GMs, and Fred Lake at 692nd in the 18th round, the 214th blueliner drafted.

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04-14-2011, 07:05 PM
  #914
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The steals of the rounds imo:

1. Mario Lemieux 5th
2. Sergei Makarov 75th
3. Gilbert Perreault 112th
4. Jarome Iginla 130th
5. Luc Robitaille 185th
6. Hod Stuart 219th
7. Neil Colville 261st
8. Keith Tkachuk 304th
9. Dave Andreychuk 359th
10. Chuck Rayner 361st
11. Anatoli Tarasov 435th
12. Barry Beck 456th
13. Valery Kamensky 511th
14. Rick Nash 531st
15. Corb Denneny 576th
16. Mark Tinordi 621st
17. Clem Loughlin 678th
18. Viktor Tikhonov 712th
19. Alexei Kovalev 722nd
20. Paul Shmyr 778th
21. John Ross Roach 839th
22. Tomas Vokoun 876th
23. Jim Peplinski 910th
24. Saku Koivu 923rd
25. Wilf Cude 974th

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04-14-2011, 07:14 PM
  #915
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^I don't know if Mario is really a steal at 5th.

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04-14-2011, 07:19 PM
  #916
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Heh, I almost said Mario myself. Should have included John Ross Roach. Disagree about some

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04-14-2011, 07:31 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
^I don't know if Mario is really a steal at 5th.
Yeah, he should have fallen to 6th or 8th eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
Disagree about some
As I disagree about some of yours:

Elias a steal in the 8th round? 6 rounds for the starting 5 skaters and goalie, so Elias was among the 2nd 2nd liners picked, and is a steal? I thought he would be seen as more of a third liner or support 2nd liner rather than the stick that stirs the drink.

What makes Murray Murdoch a steal? A third liner drafted in the 15th round. Guess he could have gone a round or two earlier.

Brian Rolston in the 18th round is early or just right, isn't it? Maybe you're a fan of his.

Jeff Brown? He shouldn't even be in this draft, should he? He could move the puck but he was no Housley or even Ozolinsh to make up for his lack of defense. Minor league him!

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04-14-2011, 07:33 PM
  #918
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Yeah, he should have fell to 6th or 8th eh?
Well was it really a reach to take the second best defenceman ever at #4? Especially with the way defenceman fly out the window early.

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04-14-2011, 07:35 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Well was it really a reach to take the second best defenceman ever at #4?
By the same token: Is it really NOT a steal to take arguably the greatest forward of all time at 5th overall?

(Also: I missed where Harvey was proven to be clearly better than Shore.)

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04-14-2011, 07:40 PM
  #920
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By the same token: Is it really NOT a steal to take arguably the greatest forward of all time at 5th overall?

(Also: I missed where Harvey was proven to be clearly better than Shore.)
I wouldn't make that arguement.

On an all-time list, perhaps not, though Harvey is likely a clear step more valuable from an ATD perspective for his more complete game, being one of the greatest defenseman defensively ever (Shore wasn't the best on his own pairing), and ability to play with virtually any partner.

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04-14-2011, 08:01 PM
  #921
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Elias brings a unique package of balanced scoring (goals and assists), pretty good intangibles and an incredibly good playoff resume. He'll play any role asked of him by the coach. As a left wing. Quite a unique package. It was also a weak round for steals.

Murray Murdoch or Kris Draper? Probably the best checkers of their class left. I mean, I almost skipped this round with a big fat "Meh" buy forced myself to pick someone.

Rolston is an elite penalty killer who can be stuck in any forward position on a 4th line.

Jeff Brown is an excellent powerplay specialist, not as foodnas that as Housley. But a but less pathetic in his own end than Housley.

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04-14-2011, 08:15 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Jeff Brown is an excellent powerplay specialist, not as foodnas that as Housley. But a but less pathetic in his own end than Housley.
OREALLY? Just compare their even strength minutes. Housley is too maligned on this board. He was a leaguewide star.

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04-14-2011, 08:21 PM
  #923
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He was a star because of his offense.

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04-14-2011, 08:57 PM
  #924
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Mario at 5th was definitely a nice surprise for me

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Old
04-14-2011, 09:08 PM
  #925
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Mario at 5th was definitely a nice surprise for me
As Eagle expressed, he went for a defensive team, but he could of at least traded down one spot. Passing on Lemieux at 4th overall is like passing on beer at a hockey game! when you aren't driving!

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