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Old
04-15-2011, 12:20 AM
  #926
TheDevilMadeMe
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Heh, good analogy Raptor.

As for the Elias thing, it's really about how thin LWs have been stretched in a 40 team draft. The pool of scoring capable LWs was falling off a cliff when he was selected IMO... And there were no real standout picks that round.

IMO, Elias is like Propp with a bit more offense and a bit less defense. (I'd much rather have guys like this inducted into the HHOF than the likes of Ciccarelli, but that's another story).

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04-15-2011, 12:42 AM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
As Eagle expressed, he went for a defensive team, but he could of at least traded down one spot. Passing on Lemieux at 4th overall is like passing on beer at a hockey game! when you aren't driving!
If passing Mario Lemieux at #4 is that bad, I wonder how bad it is to TRADE UP and THEN passing on Lemieux

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04-15-2011, 12:48 AM
  #928
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
If passing Mario Lemieux at #4 is that bad, I wonder how bad it is to TRADE UP and THEN passing on Lemieux
Heh. If you had taken Lemieux, think of how different your team would be?

As a division rival, i would have probably started with Lidstrom instead of The Rocket to counter Lemieux. Then seriously considered Makarov with my second pick over Henri (not sure who I'd pick; I'm a bigger fan of Sergei than most). Think of how different Reen and possibly Nalyd's teams would be then....

Butterfly effect, dude.

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04-15-2011, 12:55 AM
  #929
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I wouldn't have taken Morenz if you went with Lemieux EB.

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04-15-2011, 12:55 AM
  #930
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Heh. If you had taken Lemieux, think of how different your team would be?

As a division rival, i would have probably started with Lidstrom instead of The Rocket to counter Lemieux. Then seriously considered Makarov with my second pick over Henri (not sure who I'd pick; I'm a bigger fan of Sergei than most). Think of how different Reen and possibly Nalyd's teams would be then....

Butterfly effect, dude.
Most definitely. I'm kind of making fun of myself here, but the reality is that if I had to do it over again, I would again select Doug Harvey without hesitation (I guess I can't learn from my mistakes :dunno' ). I probably drafted my second favourite team ever, right there with my nasty team of three drafts ago with Ray Bourque, Dickie Moore, Sid Abel and my third line of Esa Tikkanen - Fleming Mackell - Claude Lemieux.

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04-15-2011, 12:57 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I wouldn't have taken Morenz if you went with Lemieux EB.
Really? I never changed once my strategy in all those drafts by looking at the other teams in my division. I'm probably very looking to have won my division all these times!

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04-15-2011, 01:00 AM
  #932
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Really? I never changed once my strategy in all those drafts by looking at the other teams in my division. I'm probably very looking to have won my division all these times!
I had the mis fortune of having the past two champions (you and TDMM) in my division, so I was kinda playing off what you guys did early on, lol.

It probably would have been between Red Kelly and Robinson if you took Mario.

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Old
04-15-2011, 01:04 AM
  #933
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My original plan was to take lidstrom with #11 and proudly proclaim that it's about time the 5th best defenseman ever was the 5th one taken. Bugg kind of ruined that by taking Potvin with pick 10 and Rocket fell into my lap. Mario in my division might have been enough push to stick with the original plan.

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Old
04-15-2011, 12:39 PM
  #934
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OREALLY? Just compare their even strength minutes. Housley is too maligned on this board. He was a leaguewide star.
I mostly agree with you here. Housley actually had a few years where he was a #5-7 at even strength, but he also had a number of years where he was a #1.

Brown went 4-4-4-3-3-3-1-1-5-3-7-6.
Housley's line looks like this: 3-3-6-4-2-1-3-1-1-2-1-7-1-1-6-8-4-4-7-5-6.

11 seasons as a top-3 ES defender, compared to 6. He of course played longer, but that's good for him, not bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
(I'd much rather have guys like this inducted into the HHOF than the likes of Ciccarelli, but that's another story).
me too.


--------

as for voting, we'll see how the weekend goes for assassinations, review, etc.

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Old
04-15-2011, 12:52 PM
  #935
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Housley was obviously a better overall player than Brown, due to the offensive gap. If there is a defensive gap (I guess i shouldn't have been so sure, but few defensemen were rightly criticized for own zone play than Housley), it wasn't nearly as big.

How did housley's teams do when he was #1 in ice team?

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Old
04-18-2011, 09:56 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Housley was obviously a better overall player than Brown, due to the offensive gap. If there is a defensive gap (I guess i shouldn't have been so sure, but few defensemen were rightly criticized for own zone play than Housley), it wasn't nearly as big.

How did housley's teams do when he was #1 in ice team?
Missed this question earlier, sorry.

The years were 88, 90, 91, 93, 95, and 96.

In 1988 Buffalo was out in the 1st round.
In 1990 Buffalo was out in the 1st round.
In 1991, Buffalo missed the playoffs.
In 1993, Winnipeg was out in the 1st round.
In 1995, Calgary was out in the 1st round (total Housley series, tons of GF/GA)
In 1996, he was 1st in TOI for CGY before being traded to New Jersey. New Jersey was a better team that used him a lot less, but they missed the playoffs. Calgary, the team he really contributed to, made the playoffs, but was swept in round 1.

As for Jeff Brown, he was only a #1 twice, but that was 1993, when his Blues went to game 7 of round 2 against Gilmour's Leafs, and 1994, when his Canucks defeated Gilmour's Leafs and lost to Messier's Rangers in a 7-game final. Not too shabby a record as a #1, actually.

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Old
04-18-2011, 10:02 AM
  #937
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Ugh, Housley was such a bad fit in NJ. Helped the otherwise pathetic PP a lot but was so pitiful at even strength, it canceled out the good he did.

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Old
04-18-2011, 10:18 AM
  #938
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Bios posted recently:

Mel Bridgman: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=244

managed to put up over 700 points despite not being incredibly skilled offensively. Basically did everything well except play a finesse game, but still had a knack for getting pucks to the net and into the net. A leader, a cornerman, a faceoff man, a thug. Best percentage scores: 63, 52, 51, 48, 47, 45.

Joe Watson: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=246

nothing special or fancy here, just a really solid defensive/physical defenseman. He was not your typical Broad Street Bully, in that he wasn't really a bully at all. He played a quiet, effective game and was a great leader and dressing room presence. He just missed the top-10 of overpass' list of post-expansion defensemen and their low contributions to the offense while on the ice. He was a "hang back" kind of player.

Dubbie Kerr: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=256

Now that I've read everything there is to read about Kerr, how would I describe him? Gutsy. He wasn't a typical banger or 4th line intangibles-type guy, but he will do. He was an aggressive kind of guy who bounced back from many injuries and illnesses, and showed "gameness". He had good overall hockey skills. Best percentage scores: 100, 83, 80, 79, 57, 45.

Cal Gardner: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=257

A reposting of my MLD2010 bio, plus some great stuff I dug up from newspapers this time around. Cal's reputation throughout his career was as a grinding, rugged, two-way physical player. I think he was a poor man's Keith Primeau of his day, offensively, defensively and physically, right down to the underwhelming playoff numbers. He's perfectly suited to a 4th line role. I am very pleased that I took him at the last minute over Billy Reay. Check out the cigarette ad at the bottom. LOL! Best percentage scores: 77, 59, 53, 51, 51, 49.

Al MacAdam: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=258

Another player perfectly suited to a 4th-line role. A great two-way player and a tough guy when he has to be. Led by example and was greatly appreciated by his teammates. Decent offensively. Best percentage scores: 74, 53, 52, 46, 45, 44.

Bob MacMillan: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=260

A spare who can fill in at any position on the 3rd or 4th line. He was able to do a bit of everything, and he had that big year, too. Drawbacks are size and lack of playoff experience. Best percentage scores: 83, 58, 49, 48, 48, 44.

Andre Boudrias: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=259

Superpest! Boudrias has definite agitating qualities, but at the same time it doesn't seem like it was from being a jerk, in the classic agitator sense. He was a small, efficient player who forechecked and backchecked well, and was relentless in puck pursuit. A very good passer for a winger. Also plays center. Can fill in at LW on lines 2, 3, or 4, or at center on 3 or 4 if needed. Best percentage scores: 87, 78, 70, 66, 63, 58.


Last edited by seventieslord: 04-18-2011 at 02:11 PM.
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Old
04-18-2011, 10:21 AM
  #939
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I asked 4 ex-GMs friday night about collecting ATD votes. Hockey Outsider politely declined. I didn't hear back from GBC, BM67 or John Flyers Fan. Who are some other good options?

If we don't get someone from outside the draft, we'll have to have GMs from opposite conferences take them. I can do the conference I am not in. I'd prefer that we don't have to do it this way, though.

The only reason I say that, is it looks like we're going the "reseeding" route after the division playoff champs are crowned. so in a sense, everyone is potentially in everyone else's conference.

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04-18-2011, 10:29 AM
  #940
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I'm not sure why it matters if a GM sees who has voted for who, as long as it isn't his own team.

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04-18-2011, 01:15 PM
  #941
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So voting days are tomorrow through Thursday? If so someone should make a voting procedure post like VanI usually does. I don't think it's a huge issue to send votes to managers of opposing conferences either. Not a terrible last resort.

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Old
04-18-2011, 01:25 PM
  #942
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Isn't managers from opposite conferences what we usually do? Just send it to a stubborn vet who isn't going to change his votes for anyone.

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Old
04-18-2011, 01:36 PM
  #943
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Isn't managers from opposite conferences what we usually do? Just send it to a stubborn vet who isn't going to change his votes for anyone.
Sure, I say seventies should collect votes from the Jim Coleman, and maybe TDMM for the Red Fisher?

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Old
04-18-2011, 02:24 PM
  #944
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I was going to say I would collect for the Coleman and Dreakmur for the Fisher, since he volunteered, but... we're both in the same conference.

Someone in the Jim Coleman conference send me a PM, and you can be a vote-collector for the Fisher. The other vote collector could be TDMM, but he's not ideal (in his words) and would not be at a PC until Thursday. which isn't really so bad. If no one's gung ho about collecting votes, I can go with TDMM, no big deal.

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04-18-2011, 02:39 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I was going to say I would collect for the Coleman and Dreakmur for the Fisher, since he volunteered, but... we're both in the same conference.

Someone in the Jim Coleman conference send me a PM, and you can be a vote-collector for the Fisher. The other vote collector could be TDMM, but he's not ideal (in his words) and would not be at a PC until Thursday. which isn't really so bad. If no one's gung ho about collecting votes, I can go with TDMM, no big deal.
I'll do it.

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04-18-2011, 03:33 PM
  #946
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I'll do it.

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Old
04-18-2011, 04:44 PM
  #947
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VOTING OPENS TUESDAY AT MIDNIGHT EST

Votes for the Coleman conference go to me (seventieslord).
Votes for the Fisher conference to to Stoneberg (NOT Velociraptor, and certainly not Velocirapist!).

Vote for the final regular season rankings in each division including your own. Give your team a first place vote in your own division; this is your reward for voting, or rather, a penalty for the teams that don't.

Voting will remain open for up to 72 hours; but if we get all the votes early and no more appear to be coming in, we'll close it sooner and get the preliminary round started.

Playoffs start with a 3-day long best-of-3 series between each division's 4th and 5th-ranked teams, the winner advancing to play the division leader. The first round will be 7 days long as there is always the most to discuss, and then shorter from there.


Last edited by seventieslord: 04-18-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
04-18-2011, 04:46 PM
  #948
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Velocirapist? Lmao. I'm surprised the hfboards admins allowed that to go through.

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Old
04-18-2011, 05:54 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The years were 88, 90, 91, 93, 95, and 96.

In 1988 Buffalo was out in the 1st round.
In 1990 Buffalo was out in the 1st round.
In 1991, Buffalo missed the playoffs.
In 1993, Winnipeg was out in the 1st round.
In 1995, Calgary was out in the 1st round (total Housley series, tons of GF/GA)
In 1996, he was 1st in TOI for CGY before being traded to New Jersey. New Jersey was a better team that used him a lot less, but they missed the playoffs. Calgary, the team he really contributed to, made the playoffs, but was swept in round 1.

As for Jeff Brown, he was only a #1 twice, but that was 1993, when his Blues went to game 7 of round 2 against Gilmour's Leafs, and 1994, when his Canucks defeated Gilmour's Leafs and lost to Messier's Rangers in a 7-game final. Not too shabby a record as a #1, actually.
Let me get this straight. You are looking at REGULAR SEASON ice time matched up with PLAYOFF record? That is a farce! Compare regular season #1 ice time with regular season standings at end of season (divisional champion, 3rd seed, 7th seed, etc).

Comparing a seven time all-star to a never played in the all-star game player of the same era is a bit of a joke to begin with. But at least don't monkey around with the statistics. One can twist and lie with numbers easily. They don't mean what you want them to mean.


Last edited by VanIslander: 04-18-2011 at 05:59 PM.
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Old
04-18-2011, 05:59 PM
  #950
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Let me get this straight. You are looking at REGULAR SEASON ice time matched up with PLAYOFF record? That is a farce! Compare regular season #1 ice time with regular season standings at end of season (divisional champion, 3rd seed, 7th seed, etc). Look at playoff ice time to have any bearing on playoff performances.
Pretty sure playoff ice time stats don't exist before the mid 90s, so you are unfortunately forced to use regular season stats. But would Housley's role really change that much between the regular season and playoffs of any given year?

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