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Old
04-01-2011, 07:09 PM
  #126
TheDevilMadeMe
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Have nighthawks or advantage made a Single clock since round 10?

Both guys were active early and made a lot of good selections; I just wish we knew what happened to them


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04-01-2011, 07:16 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Have nighthawks or advantage made a Single clock since round 10?
I don't mean to sound like an ass, but that's what happens when you let people with 10 posts in their history join and run a team.

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04-01-2011, 07:18 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Yeah, that's a valid point. Wouldn't matter though for the first couple of drafts before the playoff format.
That would be a fun project in the ATD "off-season". We could also settle VanI and seventies AAA (?) series from a couple of years ago.

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04-01-2011, 08:08 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
He was my head coach in ATD 2010 (or was it 10?)

I'll definitely read your bio on him tomorrow though
He's all over the map. MLD-ATD-A, then back into the (bloated) ATD.

Placing him is really hard to do. But circa 1930, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't be known as one fo the five most prolific coaches of all-time.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I see in those numbers that nashville's PK just happened to dramatically improve around the time weber and suter came to town, correct?
What strikes me about those numbers is that they're just not that great.

When jarek told me he was going to draft Trotz to be a PK coach, I thought it meant Trotz was consistently running a top-5 PK or something.

7 times top-10 out of 12 seasons, and an average of 13th per season, that's not really "special", not to the point that it will give an ATD team an advantage, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
The main problem with this is it seems like a bit of an insult against the winners of the time.
Oh believe me, it does. Last time I brought this up I was told in no uncertain terms by the winner, to go take a flying ****

Believe me, I'm fine with not doing this too!

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
The Guelph Platers draft a spare forward who can pinch in at any forward position and who dials it up in the playoffs:

Craig Simpson

As a spare and injury replacement, hopefully his back will hold up.
When I posted in the lineup thread, I did not see that you had drafted Simpson. I think he's a better option for MacLeish than Ogrodnick. Just as good peak scoring, but a little better at everything else.

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That would be a fun project in the ATD "off-season". We could also settle VanI and seventies AAA (?) series from a couple of years ago.
BRING IT!!!

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04-01-2011, 08:08 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I know coaching strategies affect the PP a lot.

But how much do they have to do with PK success? It's obviously a part of it , but the PK is more about reacting than planning I feel. Am I totally off base here?

I see in those numbers that nashville's PK just happened to dramatically improve around the time weber and suter came to town, correct?
There's little connection. Weber didn't play much on the PK before this year, and Suter was 2nd unit. It was undrafted players carrying the load on the back end.

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04-01-2011, 08:12 PM
  #131
TheDevilMadeMe
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There's little connection. Weber didn't play much on the PK before this year, and Suter was 2nd unit. It was undrafted players carrying the load on the back end.
Shows how much I watch Nashville....

But yeah, I saw that the Nashville numbers took a big jump on average about halfway through Trotz's tenure and I was just thinking outloud of why that could be.

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04-01-2011, 08:19 PM
  #132
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7 times top-10 out of 12 seasons, and an average of 13th per season, that's not really "special", not to the point that it will give an ATD team an advantage, IMO.
Numbers that are severely crippled by some very bad seasons.

I doubt there is any coach left who has had the PK consistency of Trotz. If you remove the 3 years the PK finished lower than 20th, it's 12th (out of 28), 8th (out of 30), 9th, 17th, 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 10th, 6th (this year), an average of 8th. It'd be interesting to see how other teams performed during this same time frame. Regardless, Trotz was one of the best coaches left IMO and he will bring a valuable defensive mindset to balance Johnson's offensive approach and make my team that much stronger when it does have to play defensively.

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04-01-2011, 08:29 PM
  #133
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if you have to remove his three worst seasons to make him look great, that's kind of the opposite of consistency, right?

I don't think he hurts you at all; I'm just not convinced he helps all that much.

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04-01-2011, 08:42 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
if you have to remove his three worst seasons to make him look great, that's kind of the opposite of consistency, right?

I don't think he hurts you at all; I'm just not convinced he helps all that much.
Why not? Trotz has obviously had above average consistency, even if you only take out his inaugural season (very reasonable IMO) (that's an average of 11th, which is noticeably above average). Bob Johnson doesn't have any quantified PK or defensive success that I know of, and Trotz does. What Trotz brings to the table is the opposite of what Johnson does. Why doesn't he help me? The only reason you might think that he doesn't help me is if you're only in this to win!

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04-01-2011, 08:45 PM
  #135
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sorry for the extensive absence gents - things have been very busy lately.

the kenora thistles are pleased to select:

herb cain (lw)
john bouse hutton (g)
marc tardif (lw)
andre lacroix (c)
viktor zhluktov (rw)
doug bodger (d)

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04-01-2011, 08:47 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Why not? Trotz has obviously had above average consistency, even if you only take out his inaugural season (very reasonable IMO) (that's an average of 11th, which is noticeably above average). Bob Johnson doesn't have any quantified PK or defensive success that I know of, and Trotz does. What Trotz brings to the table is the opposite of what Johnson does. Why doesn't he help me? The only reason you might think that he doesn't help me is if you're only in this to win!
You got me, I'm so terrified of the great Barry Trotz that I'm only pretending...

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04-01-2011, 08:49 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by papershoes View Post
sorry for the extensive absence gents - things have been very busy lately.

the kenora thistles are pleased to select:

herb cain (lw)
john bouse hutton (g)
marc tardif (lw)
andre lacroix (c)
viktor zhluktov (rw)
doug bodger (d)
Not bad. I was really surprised Tardiff wasn't drafted yet. Seems like he could work as a fourth liner with a scoring touch in a draft this big.

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04-01-2011, 08:50 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You got me, I'm so terrified of the great Barry Trotz that I'm only pretending...
Since you don't seem to be interested in giving me reasons why you don't think Trotz helps (not to mention you didn't even know about Nashville to know about Suter or Weber's PK'ing, and then trying to tell me that Trotz wasn't the main factor for the PK's success!), and then you don't seem to be interested in giving me actual responses to my arguments, can I safely ignore you for now?

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04-01-2011, 08:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Since you don't seem to be interested in giving me reasons why you don't think Trotz helps (not to mention you didn't even know about Nashville to know about Suter or Weber's PK'ing, and then trying to tell me that Trotz wasn't the main factor for the PK's success!), and then you don't seem to be interested in giving me actual responses to my arguments, can I safely ignore you for now?
Did you know off the top of your head the penalty killing units that Nashville has used? I was trying to think of reasons why Nashville's PK jumped a ton about halfway through Trotz's tenure. My off the cuff theory was obviously wrong.

You've yet to show anything that convinces me that Trotz is an all-time great penalty killing coach. It's possible that you can find information about his players or even the media crediting him for the penalty kill's great success. There is a ton of information out there about Bob Johnson intensely practicing the powerplay, for instance.


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Old
04-01-2011, 08:59 PM
  #140
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This guy is an all-time great, and I argue should be a starter in a 40-team all-time context, capable of handling 3/4 slot minutes in the playoffs.



Vancouver Velocity selects the most underrated defenseman Dmitri Yushkevich, the 11-year NHL veteran who began his decade of excellence in scoring three points and defending on the top pairing in the 1992 Olympic gold win as a mere 20 year old, following that up with a Best Defenseman award in the 1993 world championships. He scored 62 points over his two full seasons in Philly with 291 shots and scored a team blueline leading 5 assists on the Flyers march to within two games of the Stanley Cup final. Yushkevich clearly had offensive talent, and in his post-NHL days he continued to produce. In 2003 he scored the fastest goal in Russian league history, in seven seconds, more impressive since he's a defenseman. He also scored the first ever hat trick in the playoffs in 2006. Over his career he had scored and assisted in each of five world championships, the Olympics and and a World Cup. So why didn't Yush score much in Toronto? He said in a Russian interview that his role with the Leafs was more defense first, that the coach wanted him to go against the opposition's top line and try to limit their opportunities. Yush said he wanted to be on the top pp unit but didn't get the chance. That's fine once you consider how good of a defensive defenseman he was, especially in multiple deep playoff runs. Leaf fans didn't take to Yushkevich much at first, the ex-Flyer not even getting the 30+ points a season he did in Philly. But by the time the 1999 playoffs cam around he was clearly ensconced as the team's most important blueliner. The alternate captain shut down Jagr and Lindros in a run to the conference finals (where they ran into Hasek), Yushkevich leading all Leafs in minutes played and receiving plenty of accolades for his defensive work, earning him an NHL all-star game appearance the following season (2000). In fact, Yush led all Leaf skaters in time for each of the three consecutive playoff runs for Toronto, averaging a heady 25:18 in the 2001 playoffs despite seeing limited powerplay time. Curtis Joseph backstopped the Leafs and described Yush well: "He's a warrior. The bigger the game, the bigger he plays, and not many guys can say that." Then he got a blood clot that kept him out of the 2002 Olympics, a huge loss to the Russian team blueline, Yush and Gonchar described in a Sports Illustrated article of Feb 7th 2002 as the best from that country. Dmitri really wanted to return from his treated injury in time for the 2002 playoffs, and there is plenty of documented accounts of how insistent he was to play and how in the end the league had to prevent him by not allowing it, as the clot could kill him if he received any kind of cut and it hemorrhaged. The 31 year old had played 10 years in the NHL and had been an important part of seven playoff round series wins. He retired from the NHL one year later, partially out of a contract dispute and partially because he had triplets to raise, and returned to Russia after 786 NHL games and 72 NHL playoff contests.



Quote:
Dmitry is an in-your-face defenseman and a very valuable guy come playoff time, because he will get under guys' skin," Jeremy Roenick said. "He gives us an edge back there. He's a guy who will slash and whack and make offensive players more aware. He can take them off their game a bit."
http://nhlstars.kulichki.net/players/yushkevich/38.html

Here Roenick is being upended by Yush in the 2000 NHL all-star game:


Quote:
... a total warrior, a shot-blocking machine who could shut down the best of them and even produce a little offense, to boot.

In the '99 playoff run, he was brilliant as the Leafs got past Philly in a nasty, grinding, defensive series (the Leafs won it while scoring 9 goals in 6 games) and again past Pittsburgh in the second round. Yushkevich drove Jaromir Jagr to distraction and he never got untracked.

Yushkevich kept on being great under Quinn. He was a rock in '99-00, '00-01 and through the first 55 games of 2001-02, when he was suddenly sidelined with a blood clot in his leg. He'd never play for the Leafs again, and it wasn't clear if he'd ever play at all. Toronto sent him to Florida for Robert Svehla, and it was the last season in the NHL for both of them.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...-oct-9-12-2009



Quote:
In Toronto, Yushkevich blossomed in to a top-pair caliber NHL defenceman, particularly under the guidance of coach Pat Quinn, who joined the team in 1998. Between 1998–99 and 2001–02, Yushkevich also emerged as the leader of the Leafs' defense corps. In February 2002, Yushkevich was diagnosed with a life-threatening blood clot. As a result, Yushkevich was forced to miss the rest of the 2001–02 season. Despite Yushkevich's pleas to accept the risk and re-join the club in time for the playoffs, he was not cleared to play by the team. As a Leaf, Yushkevich totalled 506 regular season games and 44 playoff games. His performances with the Leafs earned him a reputation of a warrior, a grinder, and an expert shot-blocker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Yushkevich

Quote:
In 1989 Yushkevich was invited to play at the World Junior Championships in Anchorage, Alaska, with the USSR junior team. He and Pavel Bure were the youngest at the training camp. Dimitri didn't believe he had a chance of making the team, but he was added to the first line, which included Pavel Bure, Sergei Fedorov and Alexander Mogilny and won his first gold medal. He subsequently appeared at two more junior championships, but his memories of these weren't as sweet. In the most important games in 1990 and 1991, the Soviet team lost to Sweden and Finland when the opposition scored last-minute goals.

In 1991 Yushkevich switched to Dynamo Moscow, then headed by Vladimir Yurzinov. The experienced Yurzinov favoured an NHL style of practice, tough play and swift passes, and prepared his boys both to win Russian championships and to migrate to the NHL. Thanks to this training, it wasn't hard for Yushkevich to play North American hockey when he came to the Philadelphia Flyers. By then, Dimitri was also an Olympic champion. To many experts' surprise, the young and ambitious Unified Team of the former USSR had won the gold in Albertville, France.

Yushkevich made a successful debut on the Philadelphia team in 1992 but three years later he was traded. In 1995 he joined the Toronto Maple Leafs, where his first three years proved an ordeal and a test of his durability. Things for Yushkevich changed after Pat Quinn arrived in 1998 and relied heavily on his skill and leadership.

In the 1999 playoff series, the Toronto Maple Leafs eliminated the Pittsburgh Penguins, mostly because Yushkevich was so effective at hindering the Penguins Jaromir Jagr.

The 1999-00 season validated Yushkevich's stature as one of the league's leading defencemen and an invitation to the All-Star Game confirmed it. Yushkevich went on to play two more seasons in Toronto before he was traded to the Florida Panthers in the summer of 2002. The hard-nosed defenceman played only 23 games with the Panthers before being dealt to the Los Angeles Kings. After another 42 games, the Philadelphia Flyers re-acquired their original draft pick from 1991 in the latter stages of the season to help reinforce their blue line, however, Yushkevich's stay would be short lived, opting to play in his homeland as of the 2003-04 season.

On the international stage, Yushkevich represented his homeland at the Olympics in 1992 and 1998 and is a four-time member of Russia's World Championship team (1992, 1993, 1994, 1998 and 2004) and a member of its World Cup team in 1996.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=11782

Quote:
By Pavel Zaitsev (Sport-Express: March 24, 2006)
Translated by Alexei Belousenko of Russian Hockey Digest

Metallurg's defenceman Dmitry Yushkevich became a first defenceman who scored a hat-trick in Russian playoff. Besides, he made an assist as well. After all, Yushkevich set a new record of the hockey club from Magnitogorsk among defencemen ' 36 points in one season.

Did you know that you might break Metallurg's record?
D. Yushkevich: Of course, I didn't. Actually, I don't keep a record of my scoring points for a long time. When I was young, I followed my stats closer. But now, more important to me team's wins, especially in playoff. Everyone in our team doesn't care who scores as long as Metallurg keep winning. I'm just happy to be in such a team, and make something useful in the first season here.

How would explain such high scoring game, especially after yesterday's loss?
D. Yushkevich: Perhaps, this is some sort of super compensation for what happened in our first game against Lada. The hockey god turned its face towards us, and gave us a chance to feel more confident in offensive zone.

Did you expect that special teams' play would be so important?
D. Yushkevich: Even yesterday we played well in powerplay, had many scoring chances. Thus, today we were told to change nothing and keep playing the same way, not only one period as we did last night, but all game long.

Have you ever scored so many points in one game in the NHL?
D. Yushkevich: I don't even remember now; not often anyway. Playing overseas, most of the time I played in a second special powerplay team, so I had not much time to play in powerplay. And now, playing in Magnitogorsk, our coach trusts me, and I go on the ice with such a talented guy as Evgeni Malkin.
http://www.rushockey.com/index.php?l=eng&t=1&s=2&st=25


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Old
04-01-2011, 09:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Did you know off the top of your head the penalty killing units that Nashville has used? I was trying to think of reasons why Nashville's PK jumped a ton about halfway through Trotz's tenure. My off the cuff theory was obviously wrong.

You've yet to show anything convincing about Trotz being an all-time great penalty killing coach. It's possible that you can find information about his players or even the media crediting him for the penalty kill's great success. There is a ton of information out there about Bob Johnson intensely practicing the powerplay, for instance.
What other reason can there be for a team of scrubs with no real defensive masterminds being as good as they were on the PK?

Unfortunately, I can't find anything anecdotally about Trotz preaching PK discipline, but isn't it common knowledge that they have always been a strong defensive team? I've also seen references here and there in print about him talking about focusing on special teams as well.

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04-01-2011, 09:28 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Defensive Defencemen of the ATD (expansion era)
Rk Player GP ESP% PK% PP%
1 Don Awrey 842 0.17 45% 4%
2 Ken Daneyko 1286 0.18 43% 4%
3 Ken Morrow 550 0.18 48% 1%
4 Dave Burrows 724 0.18 53% 13%
5 Jeff Beukeboom 804 0.20 40% 5%
6 Brian Engblom 659 0.20 40% 16%
7 Robyn Regehr 744 0.21 48% 16%
8 Craig Ludwig 1256 0.21 52% 2%
9 Normand Rochefort 598 0.21 40% 12%
10 Terry Harper 795 0.22 53% 9%
11 Kjell Samuelsson 813 0.22 49% 8%
12 Bill Hajt 854 0.22 57% 5%
13 Ed van Impe 639 0.22 46% 12%
14 Ted Harris 598 0.23 44% 5%
15 Andre Dupont 810 0.23 39% 14%
Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass
Player GP ESP% PK% PP%
Dimitri Yushkevich 786 0.27 45% 25%
Yushkevich scored more at even strength and played the powerplay more than those guys (Yush was a 2nd pp unit regular) . But the Leafs stalwart was just as good as many of them in defensive play, especially in the clutch. Again, Yushkevich is the most underrated defenseman in this draft. I certainly have not seen a better Leaf at defending than him in over a quarter century.


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04-01-2011, 09:31 PM
  #143
TheDevilMadeMe
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I sent my selection to Nalyd; does anyone else want it? I think I'm on the clock in an hour and a half or whenever Johnny D/Reds pick

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04-01-2011, 09:33 PM
  #144
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In case anyone wants to see where their defencemen rank on the stats I posted in my defensive defenceman post, here are the numbers for all drafted expansion era defencemen* through 2010.

*I've probably missed a few.

Player GP ESP% PK% PP%
Player GP ESP% PK% PP%
Don Awrey 842 0.17 45% 4%
Ken Daneyko 1286 0.18 43% 4%
Ken Morrow 550 0.18 48% 1%
Dave Burrows 724 0.18 53% 13%
Luke Richardson 1417 0.19 38% 3%
Jeff Beukeboom 804 0.20 40% 5%
Brian Engblom 659 0.20 40% 16%
Robyn Regehr 744 0.21 48% 16%
Sylvain Lefebvre 945 0.21 43% 8%
Craig Ludwig 1256 0.21 52% 2%
Normand Rochefort 598 0.21 40% 12%
Jacques Laperriere 435 0.2173% 35%
Terry Harper 795 0.22 53% 9%
Kjell Samuelsson 813 0.22 49% 8%
Bill Hajt 854 0.22 57% 5%
Ed van Impe 639 0.22 46% 12%
Ted Harris 598 0.23 44% 5%
Andre Dupont 810 0.23 39% 14%
Keith Magnuson 589 0.23 42% 3%
Dave Langevin 513 0.23 38% 2%
Jim Schoenfeld 719 0.24 56% 14%
Serge Savard 1038 0.24 58% 24%
Mattias Norstrom 903 0.24 49% 8%
Rick Ley 310 0.24 52% 29%
Brad Mccrimmon 1222 0.25 36% 15%
Darius Kasparaitis 863 0.25 38% 5%
Dave Manson 1103 0.25 33% 30%
Joe Watson 763 0.25 44% 7%
Dallas Smith 773 0.26 49% 4%
Mike Milbury 754 0.26 49% 7%
Ulf Samuelsson 1080 0.26 42% 16%
Glen Wesley 1457 0.26 43% 39%
Charlie Huddy 1017 0.26 35% 34%
Jim Watson 612 0.26 41% 9%
Adam Foote 1107 0.26 53% 18%
Doug Bodger 1071 0.27 44% 58%
Mark Tinordi 663 0.27 47% 23%
Dimitri Yushkevich 786 0.27 45% 25%
Alexei Gusarov 607 0.27 48% 13%
Rod Seiling 844 0.27 49% 16%
Rod Langway 994 0.27 53% 10%
Chris Phillips 863 0.27 38% 17%
Rob Ramage 1044 0.27 45% 58%
Willie Mitchell 586 0.27 56% 3%
Jamie Macoun 1128 0.27 51% 9%
Mike Ramsey 1070 0.28 49% 14%
Jim Neilson 697 0.28 43% 35%
Zdeno Chara 847 0.28 52% 40%
Bill White 604 0.28 65% 44%
Alexei Zhitnik 1085 0.28 37% 55%
Kevin Lowe 1254 0.28 36% 13%
Gilles Marotte 690 0.28 53% 35%
Adrian Aucoin 933 0.29 40% 57%
Derian Hatcher 1045 0.29 55% 18%
Jerry Korab 825 0.29 47% 46%
Phil Russell 1016 0.30 45% 21%
Mattias Ohlund 827 0.30 45% 45%
Dave Babych 1195 0.30 31% 62%
Wade Redden 994 0.30 39% 50%
Craig Hartsburg 570 0.30 29% 68%
Dennis Kearns 677 0.30 23% 57%
Sylvain Cote 1171 0.30 32% 31%
Ron Stackhouse 889 0.30 49% 46%
Gary Bergman 649 0.30 49% 45%
Sami Salo 665 0.30 46% 43%
Alexei Kasatonov 383 0.30 41% 32%
Steve Chiasson 751 0.31 41% 56%
Roman Hamrlik 1232 0.31 35% 57%
Carol Vadnais 1076 0.31 53% 55%
Steve Smith 822 0.31 40% 37%
Kenny Jonsson 686 0.31 43% 50%
Darryl Sydor 1291 0.31 25% 40%
Guy Lapointe 884 0.31 52% 64%
Kimmo Timonen 812 0.31 34% 75%
Barry Beck 615 0.32 57% 51%
Mario Marois 955 0.32 45% 27%
Chris Pronger 1104 0.32 54% 66%
Eric Desjardins 1143 0.32 47% 52%
Borje Salming 1148 0.32 55% 62%
Bruce Driver 918 0.33 36% 57%
Larry Robinson 1384 0.33 45% 49%
Calle Johansson 1109 0.33 45% 47%
Gary Suter 1145 0.33 31% 80%
Teppo Numminen 1372 0.33 46% 48%
Kevin Hatcher 1157 0.33 51% 54%
Chris Chelios 1651 0.33 57% 52%
Mathieu Schneider 1289 0.34 31% 69%
Scott Stevens 1635 0.34 56% 40%
Barclay Plager 614 0.34 51% 33%
Robert Svehla 655 0.34 44% 60%
Marty McSorley 776 0.34 29% 24%
James Patrick 1280 0.34 35% 39%
Nicklas Lidstrom 1412 0.34 53% 72%
Randy Carlyle 1055 0.34 39% 53%
Jyrki Lumme 985 0.35 37% 48%
Ryan Suter 393 0.35 30% 43%
Jay Bouwmeester 553 0.35 53% 46%
Tomas Kaberle 820 0.35 38% 68%
Bob Dailey 561 0.35 38% 52%
Al MacInnis 1416 0.36 39% 86%
Scott Niedermayer 1263 0.37 40% 64%
Vyacheslav Fetisov 546 0.37 27% 27%
Ed Jovanovski 969 0.37 23% 48%
Andrei Markov 616 0.37 31% 67%
Brad Park 1115 0.37 43% 80%
Sergei Zubov 1068 0.37 33% 82%
Behn Wilson 601 0.37 34% 44%
Brian Rafalski 770 0.37 23% 67%
Paul Reinhart 648 0.38 37% 77%
Dan Boyle 676 0.38 14% 71%
Al Iafrate 799 0.38 34% 40%
Ian Turnbull 628 0.38 44% 60%
Mark Howe 929 0.38 41% 58%
Rob Blake 1270 0.38 50% 66%
Sergei Gonchar 991 0.38 21% 76%
Larry Murphy 1615 0.39 32% 65%
Pekka Rautakallio 235 0.39 8% 46%
Reed Larson 904 0.39 45% 66%
Doug Wilson 1024 0.39 41% 76%
Brian Leetch 1205 0.39 50% 87%
Shea Weber 320 0.40 15% 53%
Ron Greschner 982 0.40 25% 43%
Mike Green 317 0.40 11% 65%
Ray Bourque 1612 0.41 58% 87%
Sandis Ozolinsh 875 0.41 19% 68%
Steve Duchesne 1113 0.41 31% 62%
Denis Potvin 1060 0.41 53% 86%
Reijo Ruotsalainen 446 0.44 7% 64%
Paul Coffey 1409 0.44 28% 78%
Phil Housley 1495 0.46 11% 84%
Bobby Orr 596 0.50 63% 96%

Sorted from defence to offence for a change. The point is that I'm not using ESP% to say either one is better, it's more a look at the role they played.

ESP% as a measure of how offensively/defensively the defenceman plays may be influenced by some team factors, so don't take this as gospel. It's a fun list, at least. The special teams numbers are definitely valuable. It's also useful to consider how good their teams were together with the size of their role.

Remember that these numbers are the average of a player's entire career.

Defencemen who played some games at forward (McSorley, Housley, etc) will have their ESP% boosted by those games.

I like looking at the defencemen who my players are surrounded by. For example, where does Gary Bergman fit on this? He's similar to Wade Redden, Ron Stackhouse, Mattias Ohlund, and Craig Hartsburg.


Last edited by overpass: 04-12-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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04-01-2011, 09:47 PM
  #145
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I like the Yushkevich pick. He really was terrific defensively for Toronto a few years ago.

Part of the trend of 90s-00s players getting more respect relative to the 70s-80s guys.

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04-01-2011, 09:50 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I like the Yushkevich pick. He really was terrific defensively for Toronto a few years ago.

Part of the trend of 90s-00s players getting more respect relative to the 70s-80s guys.
Indeed. I miss him.

Yushkevich rocks Kypreos (1994): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1aUQx8P8Qc
Yushkevich destroys ****** (1997) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2Aq...eature=related

He was a well-rounded player who could do just about anything yet concentrated on the defense-first aspects of the game in T.O., especially in O.T.


Last edited by seventieslord: 04-01-2011 at 10:24 PM.
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04-01-2011, 10:35 PM
  #147
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I was gonna take Yushkevich with my upcomming pick.

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04-01-2011, 11:03 PM
  #148
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I believe the pick is now skipped:

870. TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Glenn "Chico" Resch, G
871. Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints - Bohuslav Stastny, lw

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04-01-2011, 11:29 PM
  #149
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Thanks for announcing the pick, nalyd. I'm happy to finally be in a good draft position to get the goofy *******:

With pick 870, NJ selects*

Glen "Chico" Resch, G

-2nd Team All-Star in both 1976 and 1979

-Played in the 1976,1977, and 1984 All Star Games

-Stanley Cup finalist in 1975, starting the majority of games

-Stanley Cup winner in 1980 as backup to Billy Smith

-Stanley Cup finalist in 1987 as backup to Ron Hextall

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04-01-2011, 11:47 PM
  #150
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For our first spare, the Philadelphia Firebirds will select a player we believe is one of, if not the strongest offensive players available, C Herb Jordan



Jordan was a star scorer everywhere he played, finishing top-4 in scoring five times! He was also 4th and 6th in other seasons. He missed 1-4 games a couple of times and actually placed 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 6th in points per game in these 8 seasons.

- 5'6", 130 lbs
- top-3 in CAHL scoring three straight years (3rd-1903, 2nd-1904, 3rd-1905, twice to Russell Bowie, once to Frank McGee, one of these times he had a much better GPG. This was as an 18-20 year old versus a 22-24 year old Bowie!)
- 9th in ECAHA scoring (1906)
- 15 points in 5 ECAHA games (1907) - which was 3rd-highest PPG average after Bowie & Russell
- 4th in ECAHA scoring behind Bowie, Walsh, Phillips (1908 - again, 2nd in PPG)
- 2nd to Marty Walsh in ECHA scoring (1909)
- Was leading Renfrew with 9 goals in 6 games before being replaced by Lalonde (1910)
- 33rd in pre-merger goals according to The Trail Of the Stanley Cup

Previously Jordan's playmaking was a question mark, as only goal stats were available. Thanks to solid SIHR research, the stats database has been beefed up with some sparse assist stats. It's still not much to go by, but Jordan was 1st in CAHL assists in 1903 with 4, 2nd in the ECAHA in 1908 with 5, and 3rd in the ECAHA in 1906 with 4. Jordan had 17 recorded assists to Russell Bowie's 22 during the 6 seasons they played in the same league together. This appears to be the 3rd-most over this period (one behind Alf Smith)

Jordan was out of hockey at 26, similar to a lot of other stars at this time who shone brightly and then vanished. (There's no evidence that he couldn't cut it anymore, but was signed as a personal assistant to Ambrose O'Brien) How do his numbers look compared to theirs?

Frank McGee: 23 GP, 71 G, 3.09 GPG
Russell Bowie: 80 GP, 238 G, 2.98 GPG
Tom Phillips: 48 GP, 116 G, 2.41 GPG
Herb Jordan: 61 GP, 146 G, 2.39 GPG
Marty Walsh: 69 GP, 142 G, 2.06 GPG
Blair Russell: 67 GP, 107 G, 1.60 GPG
Harry Trihey, 29 GP, 46 G, 1.59 GPG

Most Assists in recorded top-level hockey (CAHL/ECAHA), 1903-1909 seasons (min. 6)

(FAHL not included as there are no reconstructed assists there, same with 1905 CAHL)

NameGPAAPG
Alf Smith32230.72
Russell Bowie44220.50
Blair Russell36180.50
Herb Jordan46180.39
Pud Glass41130.32
Ernie Johnson43130.30
Jack Marshall31120.39
Harry Westwick37120.32
Walter Smaill36110.28
Cecil Blachford24100.42
*** *****49100.20
****** *******3090.30
Marty Walsh2180.38
Billy Gilmour2880.29
Jack McDonald2880.29
*** ********1870.39
Cyclone Taylor2170.33
******* *******2270.32
Ernie Russell2470.29
******** ****1760.35
Frank McGee1760.35
Lester Patrick1860.33
Harry Smith2160.29
Jimmy Gardner2560.24
Harvey Pulford2960.21

Quote:
Herb Jordan joined Quebec in 1903 and played with them for seven years. During this time Quebec was never a threat for league supremacy and this great centre player was fated never to be on a winner.However, in that time he was the leading goal scorer for Quebec.

He carried the load until he got some real support with the arrival of **** ******** in 1907... his best year was 1909 when Joe Malone arrived but the team got nowhere, with poor goaling. This year he scored in 12 consecutive games.

When the O'Briens of Renfrew decided to pack a team to go after the Stanley Cup in 1910, they first tried to get Marty Walsh for centre. He would not leave Ottawa so they signed Jordan who had finished second to Walsh as a scorer in 1909. He centered a line of Fred Whitcroft and **** ******. The Creamery Kings were well-loaded but could not win consistently. A deal was made with Canadiens to get Newsy Lalonde for the balance of the season. Although Jordan was their best scorer up to that time, he had to make way for Lalonde.

He was a player with a scoring average of better than two goals per game, who like Russell Bowie, had the bad luck never to be on a Stanley Cup winner.
-Trail of the Stanley Cup, Volume 1

Quote:
When the club announced the signing of Herb Jordan, a speedy centre from Quebec, it was also stated that he preferred to play as an amateur... Jordan was an established star in his own right, too. He had been the second leading scorer in the ECHA the past season, while playing on a last place team... O'Brien showed his flexibility. Not wanting to leave any stone unturned in his attempt to assemble the best players he could, and his money not being directly of use in this situation, the mining magnate used his business interests to lure Jordan... Certainly, Jordan did not have the high profile of the Patricks or Fred Taylor, but that soon became immaterial. Once he was announced as a member of the Renfrew aggregation, fast becoming thetopic of conversation, importance was ascribed to him.
-The Renfrew Millionaires

Quote:
Jordan, a brilliant center with the professional team...
-Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Such fast forwards as Herb Jordan and *** ***** require fast ice... it is certain Jordan and ***** were handicapped... Jordan was the only man to play in anything like his usual form...
-Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Jordan was the bright star of the forward line, and he was at all times dangerous... Jordan gave the Ottawa defense a few anxious moments... Jordan went in off the faceoff, and scored in 30 seconds...
-January 6th, 1908 Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Jordan is still the neatest, most dangerous and quickest forward.
-January 4th, 1908 Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Two of their first three were scored on three-man combinations with a double-pass between Jordan and ****** *****... During the last seven minutes there were seven goals scored, and of these, Jordan, the Quebec rover, who put up a sterling game from the beginning, got four
-January 27th, 1908 Montreal Gazette

Quote:
****** ***** failed to score on a pretty run with Jordan... Jordan scored for Quebec on the prettiest combination play of the night, the disc being slapped to and fro by the Quebec forwards three times before Jordan shot and scored... Quebec came back with the next goal in short order, ***** scoring from the side after a run by Jordan.
-February 17th, 1908 Montreal Gazette

Quote:
***** and Jordan played fast combinations.
-January 4th, 1908 Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Jordan then got the puck and after a few passes with Malone, he dashed in past the point and cover point and to the surprise of the goaler the puck was in before he could prevent it.
-January 4th, 1909 Daily Telegraph

Quote:
Jordan notched two beauties as a result of combination attacks with Frank Patrick and Fred Taylor... Herb Jordan played perhaps the finest game he has ever put up, the manner in which he dodged by the big defensemen of the visitors bringing down the house.
-Ottawa Citizen, 1910

Quote:
As the Quebec hockey team are now practically out of the running for the championship, it is understood that a couple of the players, who were only prevailed upon when the local septette's chances looked good, will retire from the game permanently. Among the names mentioned are those of Herb Jordan and Wllie Hogan. Their loss to the team, if they definitely decide to withdraw, will be serious.
-January 24th, 1906, Saint John Daily Sun

Quote:
Jordan was the pick of the four, and all through a fast and hard game stood up to the pace and gave a fine exhibition of fast skating and clever stickwork
-March 3rd, 1906, Montreal Gazette

thanks to seventieslord for this part of the bio, here is some new stuff:

Quote:
If you're not familiar with players like Russell Bowie or Fred Taylor, educate yourselves. Of course, not all of the best scorers in those days played rover, some were centers such as Frank McGee or Ernie Russell or Marty Walsh or Newsy Lalonde. Herb Jordan, a gifted scorer and likely one of the best players not in the Hall of Fame, alternated between center and rover, as did xxx. Overall, center is more represented among the best scorers of the day.
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=699

Quote:
Quebec City-born Jordan was a high scorer who was lured to Renfrew and was one of the original “Millionaires”!
http://www.classicauctions.net/Defau...id=6&lotid=552


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