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The Official Scott Gomez Thread part tres - Siesta Edition

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:50 PM
  #301
Stradale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
How can someone lose their ability in such a short period of time? I mean he's not a 80+ point guy but he's consistently been good for 60+ points/season his entire career. I think two things can happen next season: either he does some soul searching and comes back next season with one of his best seasons in his entire career (Plekanec style) or he falls off the face of the earth.
Its all about willing.

Gomez is not old.. he's still a stellar skater. In the NHL, you don't need a super shot to score 12-15 goals (ask Darche). It's all about willing to pay the price and go in the area that hurts the most to score the "easier" goal. I don't think Gomez had a good shot the season he scored 30 goals, I don't remember his goals but i'm pretty sure he scored them by paying the price and got his nose dirty. I don't care if he's a playmaker or two way player, a guy that plays ~18 min a games, ALWAYS on the PP on a 80 games season should score at least 15 goals easily. Gomez scored 7... 7!!!!! 1 freaking goal in the second half.

This guy just REFUSES to crash the net when he has the puck. 95% the time, when he easily enters the offensive zone full speed, he will always cut to the side, stops and wait for his wingers. He will never crash the net and challenge the defenseman.

I seriously thought he would start doing it in the playoffs because I was innocent enough to believe that he was gonna step us his game in the playoffs after his horrible season. I was so wrong. The amount of effort was slightly higher compared to the regular season.. but the willing to pay the price was still missing.

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04-27-2011, 11:56 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
No doubt that Scott Gomez is a good dressing room guy. However, he loses a whole lot between the dressing room and the ice. He is simply not giving the effort on most nights to justify half the salary he is gettting. He is a third liner at best and must be moved no matter what the financial penalty.
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8M$ for that... lol

1 goal in the 2nd half of the season.
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
IF we can get rid of him we should. It's a no brained at this point IMO.

He's done nothing for us all year. It's unacceptable.
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
If the Rangers can pay Redden 6.5M$ to play in the AHL and the Blackhawks can pay Huet 5.6M$ to play in Europe, I don't see why we can't do it with Gomez?

This guy needs to go. Clearing 7.3M$ of our cap space would be awesome. We can easily give that money to Richards.. or rebuilding the defense.
Had he bounced back like last season, I would not be against Having him on the team. But he seems to be getting worse and worse.

As a third line center being paid as a third live center, I would not be against having him on the team. He has experience and is a good locker room guy, but not worth it at $7.3M cap hit.

But after this season and play-off performance, He has to go..

Plecky is a Damn good player, but he can't play for both himself and Gomez. He can't carry the team on his shoulders. No team can win with only one center who can play on the top 2 lines. You need 2 centers who can put up 60+ points a season.

That being said, with $7.3M, you can find someone who can compliment Pleckanec. They have to dump Gomez somehow.

If you own a Ferrari with a broken engine and you want to win, it doesn't matter how much you paid for it. If you can afford a less expensive car that can perform better then the Ferrari, you got to go with the other car. It sucks to have the Ferrari sitting in the garage, but you just won't win with it. So why bother racing it?

So let it be through a trade or in the AHL, do something..

BTW I've sat with friends before and we figured what a very crude approximation of profit the Canadiens make in the play-offs per game is about $3M. So every round they play, they make $9m profit (3 game). Had the Habs made the second round, they would have played at least 2 more games at home.. So Gomez's crap play probably cost them like $6M if not $9M...

Anyways, I'd rather have any other teams top center than Gomez next season.


Last edited by Belso: 04-28-2011 at 12:02 AM.
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Old
04-28-2011, 12:02 AM
  #303
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Anyways, I'd rather have any other teams top center than Gomez next season.
Make that ''I'd rather have any other teams third line center than Gomez.''

Its that bad imho. He must be amongst the worse in ''points per minutes'' and especially ''goals per minutes'' stats. And -15 in a team were most players are +, along with -6 in the playoffs is inexcusable.

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04-28-2011, 12:08 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Make that ''I'd rather have any other teams third line center than Gomez.''

Its that bad imho. He must be amongst the worse in ''points per minutes'' and especially ''goals per minutes'' stats.
Like I said, I don't hate Gomez. I just think he's hurting the Habs. I wouldn't want any teams 3rd line center to take Gomez's spot. The Habs need a real top 2 center. So ok I'd take any teams top 2 center's over Gomez and if Gomez's contract wasn't using up the Cap, the Habs could have at least a second top two center.

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04-28-2011, 12:15 AM
  #305
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Like I said, I don't hate Gomez. I just think he's hurting the Habs. I wouldn't want any teams 3rd line center to take Gomez's spot. The Habs need a real top 2 center. So ok I'd take any teams top 2 center's over Gomez and if Gomez's contract wasn't using up the Cap, the Habs could have at least a second top two center.
To be fair he's better than most ''real'' third line centers (of course guys like J. Staal or whichever first line center Philly plays there are better, for instance) BUT I'd trade him for any mediocre third liner with a cheap contract without a second thought. Pure cap dumping of course.

Ability wise he's probably amongst the worse 2nd line centers (he's 59th in points amongst centers ; pretty bad considering he only missed 2 games).

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04-28-2011, 12:15 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Then Gionta is a loser and I would rather compete for 30th than have either him or Gomez. They are all adults and I cannot imagine Gionta would act like a child if Gomez was buried. He is well aware in a salary cap world what the ramifications could be. Regardless, him and Cammalleri did not sign here because of Gomez.
Bingo

It might of helped them get more comfortable during their arrival here since they already knew each other. But I have no doubt Gionta and Cammalleri went with the highest offers on the market.

Even Lou Lamoriello said he couldn't give him that kind of money.

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04-28-2011, 12:21 AM
  #307
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Bingo

It might of helped them get more comfortable during their arrival here since they already knew each other. But I have no doubt Gionta and Cammalleri went with the highest offers on the market.

Even Lou Lamoriello said he couldn't give him that kind of money.
Its possible Gomez really helped convince them, for all we know it could have. Not because he's a cool guy but because Plekanec was coming out a bad season and Gomez was known as a good playmaker. Pleks had 39 points and only 19 assists the previous season and was still a very underrated and barely known player, Cammalleri probably didnt know much about him for instance, and Gionta owned the Habs with the Devils for times immemorial so he probably didnt know he was any good The other centers on the team were Metropolit and Lapierre, so a center squad of Plekanec-Lapierre-Metropolit wouldnt have been enticing for a winger, to say the least...


However, it doesn't matter anymore. Cammalleri rarely plays with Gomez, and probably thanks god every day that he's with Plekanec instead. Meanwhile Gionta is the CAPTAIN, and its not like theres tremendous chemistry between him and Gomez. He produces better with Plekanec, and when with Gomez he does most of the work on his own. It must be frustrating for team guy like him to have to outwork his teammate all the friggen time to get points...

Even if they are best buddies (don't think they are. they played together before and still do, thats about it) I doubt Gionta would surrender his captainship and flee to the KHL Players know its a business, and they know Gomez doesn't bring it anymore.

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Old
04-28-2011, 12:29 AM
  #308
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I think I must the only fan of Gomez left

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04-28-2011, 12:32 AM
  #309
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Can anyone please tell me.

What is preventing Gauthier from burying Gomez in the minors? What are the negative consequences of doing that?

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04-28-2011, 12:33 AM
  #310
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But something's got to give.
A top 6 counting on Gomez is not a Stanley Cup winning top 6. And the direction can't just roll their thumbs and wait out the remaining 3 years of his contract before making a serious push for the finals.

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04-28-2011, 12:37 AM
  #311
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Can anyone please tell me.

What is preventing Gauthier from burying Gomez in the minors? What are the negative consequences of doing that?
Well hockey is a business. Like Kriss E. said, 7.5M$ is still a lot of dough, even for the Molsons. It will depend on them, are they willing to throw 7.5M$ into waste to help this team out or not.

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04-28-2011, 12:46 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
I think I must the only fan of Gomez left
How much is he paying you?

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04-28-2011, 01:01 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
I think I must the only fan of Gomez left
Gomez still has a fan!?





Seriously, the guy is set for life. He's rich. And he just isn't playing anywhere near his contract. If he at least was a top 30 Center. But he's barely playing as a top 60.

Maybe you can still cheer for him in Hamilton

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:08 AM
  #314
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Anyway, all that talk about Gomez, wait till he takes it up a notch, you freakin haters, wait till he finally steps on it...then you'll eat some crow....euh....is it too late?

'Cause I have been told that he was a playoff warrior who would make it count when it REALLY counts....did that count enough? Or was he dosing his efforts for the rest of the playoffs? That's it. Freakin Habs team who wasn't able to put Scotty into the next rounds so that NOW he'd be able to show us all....

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04-28-2011, 01:12 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
This is sad and uncalled for.
The herd has lost control but I would have expect better from you.

I do agree with some facts but now the herd is out and seeing you jumping the bandwagon makes me sad.

I do understand the frustration but this is going overboard and as much as I disagree with the Gomez contract, I still see what this guy brings to this team.

I am ready for a discussion on this but a board does not offer the possibility to present the case: too much information.

Just think: Martin does reward work ethics by ice time.
Why does Gomez gets so much ice time?

Just going back to the judgment of the coach here.

Is Martin a dum or is he a stubburn SOB who does have values and coaches according to those values?

You want to shoot Gomez, you need to attack Martin.
How did his team fared in PO?
Who was the favorite team before this round?

Things are not so simple.
So we disagree here.
Martin was awaiting for that Gomez explosion we were all waiting for. And clearly , he didn't have the greatest of faith in what we had other than him. So the Gomez resurrection was his best bet. But Gomez himself is far from being responsible for such a use. For Martin, he had no choice. And as a coach, you do what you can so that your signing/trade looks as best possible. Sometimes you can't (Laraque, Pouliot), but at some point you need some success story and they thought Gomez could do it....

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04-28-2011, 01:19 AM
  #316
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the thing that bothers me about Gomez, is that while you can't accuse him of "not trying", he simply isn't playing with the urgency of a player determined to get out of his funk...

he keeps going back to the same repertoire of moves/plays, hoping for a different result. While the persistence can be admired, at a certain point you need to try something else.

While he will never be a "physical player", he would be well served to get his nose dirty at least some of the time.

All series long, it was like there was a magic shield around Thomas... we'd get a puck to the net, gomez would come flying in, and not once did he poke his stick in or otherwise attempt to disturb the netminder.

i'm not saying he needs to be a "pest" like Marchand, but if he was committed to getting some production, then it's high time he stops being so damn "classy and respectful" around the net. Get in there, do some pushing and shoving, get under people's skin, and try to make something happen.

there's a reason why so many of the smallish players in the league are such pests... it's because given their small stature, it's the only way to maximize their effectiveness. When you don't have a shot, you don't have great puck/deking skills, you don't have size or strength, then you need to do a little more than skate around really fast and avoid contact at all cost.

Gionta and Cammy can get away with that because they both have a shot... go figure that Gionta's shot/scoring ability is a bit less effective and so he plays a bit more of a "gritty" game between the two.

Pleks doesn't have the shot, but he's got pretty good puck skills, he plays very well defensively, and he figured out a few years ago that he can't "play like a little girl" and still be effective.

Gomez needs that kind of epiphany. You can't bring so little to the table, not get your nose dirty, and then expect to be effective... ESPECIALLY not on a team where you are one of the bigger top-6 forwards...

the fact that he didn't once show that desire/realization during the entire series is evidence enough that the guy simply doesn't "want it" bad enough, not anymore...

time to cut ties, however possible.

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:22 AM
  #317
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Okay Gainey....time to get yourself hired by Atlanta...so we'd be able to trade Gomez to you for.....let's say....Bogosian? Deal?

Who needs to get rid of a great d-man prospect for an underachiever centerman?

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04-28-2011, 01:25 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
As of tonight, Gomez has one more fan: me!
Please enjoy the satisfaction of saying whatever you think about me.

Tonight, on Weber goal, I saw something from Gomez that flabergasted me...
He did not touch the puck, was not even 20 feet from the puck.
But what I saw was out of this world, something to show young players:
This is to play hockey when you don't have the puck.
Go back and look again.
This was so great that I have rarely seen such a good move.
I saw Lafleur, Beliveau, Orr, etc.
What Gomez did on that play
Before today, I was between saying: Gomez is expensive.

This is incredible...
Gomez should never be in the same sentence as Orr, Beliveau or Lafleur. Guy was on the ice for so many Bruins goals. Three shifts in, he was -2. The other day was on the ice for 4 goals not to mention his massive fail in game 3 on the goal line and not being able to score. He had 1 good game. Guy hustles ever other shift. Quicker we get rid of him the better.

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04-28-2011, 01:26 AM
  #319
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Imagine what we could do with his cap space. Hows a tandem of Plekanec and Brad Richards sound like. Jeeeeeez.

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:31 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
JM was giving ice time to a player who was busting his ass and following his orders.
Martin rewards work ethics (ask Pyatt).
Gomez was skating very well and playing good in PP and PK.
He was not scoring.

You really think Martin had no choice?
Not me.
Martin was tryingto have Gomez get back to his best game.
For JM, the important part is: get in PO, then get all his players to perform at thier best in PO.
He did pretty well don't we agree?

Gomez is part of this.
JM plays veterans, u havent noticed this after two seasons?

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04-28-2011, 02:16 AM
  #321
FlyingKostitsyn
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
In Red, the fact we disagree on (at least in PO).
Gomez TOI in PO.
Looking at Gionta stats...

In Blue, is where you are totally wrong and present for facts things that you can not prove.
/proof

Are you serious?
Did you ask any player?
Any citation to prove you are right?
Anything, anywhere?

This hatrid of Gomez has gone beyond and over any reasonable fact.
I am not happy with his SCap but that is not a reason to loose reality and facts.


Are YOU serious? Nice stats site btw, but VERY selective stats you've chosen!

No time to address it all, but here's that about the ''tremendous chemistry'' between Gionta and Gomez :

Gionta was on the ice for over 75% of his TOI with Gomez and only about 25% with Plekanec. This is approximate calculating ''significant'' lines (ie lines that represent less than 0.5% of total ice time are ignored as they are mostly the result of line changes and of little consequence).

Approx 44% of Gionta's production has been with Plekanec, 52% with Gomez.

4% of his production has been with Eller (with whom he's had about 2% of his ice time).

Only 24 of his 46 points were scored while Gomez was on the ice with him. He scored 19 points with Plekanec, 2 with Eller and one alone with Moen (I guess shorthanded).

To summarize, Gionta scored only 5 less points playing with Plekanec while playing with him only 1/4 of the time. He had just over 50% of his production with Gomez even if playing with him 3/4 of the time. To put it in perspective, he would have had around 75 points if he played with Plekanec all the time and they kept their pace together. We have to consider however they had considerable PP time together (40%) and that the production in that situation is similar with either center (5 points with both +1 another while Gomez and Plekanec were both on the ice at the same time (Pleks was probably the extra attacker)). Still, this clearly shows Gionta has been relatively more productive with Plekanec.

As for Cammalleri playing frequently with Gomez? Well, they shared only 15% of their ice time during the regular season (nice hand picking switching stats between reg season and playoffs whenever it suits you the best... I'll stick to regular season because its a far bigger sample size).

About facts ''I cannot prove!'' and citations? We'll have ''proven'' my chemistry theory using that awesome stats site (thanks again). About Cammalleri being happy he doesn't play more with Gomez? Well I said ''probably''. Its an opinion, I don't need facts other than my judgement. Its a message board after all.


Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 04-28-2011 at 02:27 AM.
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04-28-2011, 02:18 AM
  #322
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I am another Gomez fan.

It's a shame to see how he's getting treated by fans and the media and it's certainly not doing Montreal any favors.

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04-28-2011, 02:24 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
...
This was so great that I have rarely seen such a good move.
I saw Lafleur, Beliveau, Orr, etc.
What Gomez did on that play was so great...


wow..

Even if that one play was as amazing as you seem to think it was... that's enough to redeem his whole season for you ?

Talk about low standards.

Not to mention that even the worst players can pull a rabbit out of their hat every now and then. Hell goons sometimes score goals a la Mario Lemieux deking through everyone and looking like all stars.

And you're gushing over a guy pointing and skating in a certain direction and comparing him to the greatest players that have ever played ?

I don't want to insult you, but put down the crack pipe right now.


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04-28-2011, 03:27 AM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
In Red, the fact we disagree on (at least in PO).
Gomez TOI in PO.
Looking at Gionta stats...

In Blue, is where you are totally wrong and present for facts things that you can not prove.
/proof

Are you serious?
Did you ask any player?
Any citation to prove you are right?
Anything, anywhere?

This hatrid of Gomez has gone beyond and over any reasonable fact.
I am not happy with his SCap but that is not a reason to loose reality and facts.
He is a thought mate. The blue text you highlighted is liable to be a joke. We call it mockery, you know, humor derived out of the horrendous play that was the stable of Gomez's season with us. Asking someone if they have talked to the person or demanding they cite proof, is ridiculous. It was not intended to be accurate, but posted in jest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I do understand the frustration but this is going overboard and as much as I disagree with the Gomez contract, I still see what this guy brings to this team.
What he brings is absolutely nothing that even remotely warrants his disgusting contract. To put into perspective, we paid him over one million dollars per goal this season and he has cost us a staggering $195k approximated dollars per point. Gionta and Plekanec's cost combined is barely 2k more for almost three times the production.

Gomez is useless, fundamentally and logically so and will remain a liability to this team for the duration of his contract barring a miraculous turnaround season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
JM was giving ice time to a player who was busting his ass and following his orders.
Martin rewards work ethics (ask Pyatt).
Gomez was skating very well and playing good in PP and PK.
He was not scoring.

You really think Martin had no choice?
Not me.
Martin was tryingto have Gomez get back to his best game.
For JM, the important part is: get in PO, then get all his players to perform at thier best in PO.
He did pretty well don't we agree?

Gomez is part of this.
You must have watched a different series than we all did because excluding games one and six; where he was good and average respectively, Gomez was nothing short of abysmal. I would rather have had Saku Koivu, who would not be a passenger all season and frankly damn useless in just about everything. Oh and he scores more points for a third of the price and we would have retained McDoungh, who was a beast for New York.

Trading for Gomez was moronic. He was mediocre at best last season, found some relevance in the playoffs and has regressed beyond awful since. It is almost amazing how much he has collapsed as a feasible top six forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
This was so great that I have rarely seen such a good move.
I saw Lafleur, Beliveau, Orr, etc.
What Gomez did on that play was so great...
Well as the saying goes: "Even a broken clock is right twice." So, Gomez is not even as useful as a broken clock since he only managed one good play.

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04-28-2011, 03:33 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
I am another Gomez fan.

It's a shame to see how he's getting treated by fans and the media and it's certainly not doing Montreal any favors.
I am not a Gomez fan.

It's a shame to see how hes playing out there, which is certainly not doing Montreal any favours.

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