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The Official Scott Gomez Thread part tres - Siesta Edition

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Old
07-21-2011, 09:18 AM
  #876
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
What happens when anyone gets injured? I really don't get what your getting at. We found a good line-mate for him that clicked for 20 games. Once Patches went down Gomez and Gio started to get their groove back. It's the way it goes. You're only as good as the guy who's the sniper when your strength is passing.
When one of Plekanec's linemates gets injured, he becomes a little bit worse.

When one of Gomez' linemates gets injured, he becomes significantly worse.

I don't see how this could be difficult to understand. Yes, all players are affected by their linemates. But a player who is 95% dependent on his linemates, and can only work with a small number of linemates, is too big a risk.

Plekanec can mesh with Gionta, Pacioretty, Cammalleri, AK46, etc.
Gomez can only mesh with Gionta and Pacioretty.

What happens when one of Gionta or Pacioretty gets injured? Gomez collapses to zero. If you lose 1 player, a frequent occurence, you'll effectively lose 2 players, rather than losing 1.2 or 1.3.

Quote:
He was never a goal scorer. He's a passer.
False.

Before this season, he would give you 16 goals per 80 games. This season, he gave 7 goals per 80 games. That makes him easier to defend against.

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07-21-2011, 10:14 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
When one of Plekanec's linemates gets injured, he becomes a little bit worse.

When one of Gomez' linemates gets injured, he becomes significantly worse.

I don't see how this could be difficult to understand. Yes, all players are affected by their linemates. But a player who is 95% dependent on his linemates, and can only work with a small number of linemates, is too big a risk.

Plekanec can mesh with Gionta, Pacioretty, Cammalleri, AK46, etc.
Gomez can only mesh with Gionta and Pacioretty.

What happens when one of Gionta or Pacioretty gets injured? Gomez collapses to zero. If you lose 1 player, a frequent occurence, you'll effectively lose 2 players, rather than losing 1.2 or 1.3.


False.

Before this season, he would give you 16 goals per 80 games. This season, he gave 7 goals per 80 games. That makes him easier to defend against.
16 goals per 80 games for a top 6 player is a goal scorer to you? Ok, not to me. If you look at his stats and the way he plays he's a passer first. In fact he's in my opinion an elite passer, ala Adam Oates type deal but that's another story. So yes it's normal that Plecanek will do better with more linemates because he's better at putting the puck in the net.

We found something that works, let's go with it instead of knit-picking at reasons why we hate Gomez.

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07-21-2011, 10:23 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post

PS: What distinguishes Gomez from Plekanec?
1) Plekanec is an excellent shooter. He scores 20 goals every year. So even if he has only one guy he can pass to, he's still dangerous. Gomez needs two guys he can pass to, as he has no shot he's willing to use. Put two shooters on Plekanec's wing and that's 3 guys to defend, put two shooters on Gomez' wing and that's 2 guys to defend. Which do you think is harder?
2) Plekanec rocks defensively so fans tolerate if he goes 3 or 4 games without producing points.
And he's paid 2mil less per year...

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16 goals per 80 games for a top 6 player is a goal scorer to you? Ok, not to me. If you look at his stats and the way he plays he's a passer first. In fact he's in my opinion an elite passer, ala Adam Oates type deal but that's another story. So yes it's normal that Plecanek will do better with more linemates because he's better at putting the puck in the net.

We found something that works, let's go with it instead of knit-picking at reasons why we hate Gomez.
Oh no, you didn't !

... he might be above average in his skills but his vision is nowhere near Adam Oates and these elite passers in league history... he's not even the best passer on his team...

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07-21-2011, 10:24 AM
  #879
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16 goals per 80 games would make him a top-60 center in the NHL for goal scoring, i.e., a 2nd line center. It would not make him a "goal scorer", it would make him a more balanced player and improve his passing game. He is capable of being a 16 goal scorer, he's averaged that over his career, and that would make his passing game more effective.

Your conclusion that as long as nobody is injured and nobody is in a slump, Gomez will play very well. I agree with your conclusion. But I also think he should work on his shooting, to become once more the 16 goal scorer he is capable of being, so that he doesn't collapse to zero once the inevitable injury/slump happens to Pacioretty/Gionta/Markov.

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07-21-2011, 01:05 PM
  #880
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I have family members that are close to Scott G and thought I would pass along part of an email from my cousin that he sent me last night…Scott’s close friends rag on him about last season so it’s not like he only keeps “yes men” in his inner circle of friends.


Last night at his charity function Scott made a few jokes about his dismal season and how Willie O'ree called him with advice about how he used to get booed for being black in the league and said "At the end of the day you'll find a way to clear all the noise and continue to better yourself at the job".

It was pretty cool to hear about. Scott mentioned the passion the fans bring and he needs to produce for them.

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07-21-2011, 01:13 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Mr San Diego Hab View Post
I have family members that are close to Scott G and thought I would pass along part of an email from my cousin that he sent me last night…Scott’s close friends rag on him about last season so it’s not like he only keeps “yes men” in his inner circle of friends.


Last night at his charity function Scott made a few jokes about his dismal season and how Willie O'ree called him with advice about how he used to get booed for being black in the league and said "At the end of the day you'll find a way to clear all the noise and continue to better yourself at the job".

It was pretty cool to hear about. Scott mentioned the passion the fans bring and he needs to produce for them.
Ok...So the 2 prior years, he didn't feel the need to produce for them?

Offseason talk is always this rosy stuff where everything looks like it's going to be fine, and then the **** hits the fan.

Pretty soon, this is going to be just like the Leafs board, where people are expecting everyone to be a ton better than they were last year.

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07-21-2011, 01:26 PM
  #882
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For a guy that has been in a league for so long, that have won the cup, that is getting TOP money, he sure needs a lot of motivation to play hockey...

Yeah its cute that he can admit that he sucked last season and make fun of it.. but he better walk the walk next season. I still remember him saying out loud that he will step up his game when Cammy went down last year and he didn't do ****.

There was excuses after excuses for this guy last season.

He's a slow starter... 20 games later.. Gio is snakebitten... 10 games later.. its because of his other winger not named GIonta.. MaxPac comes and saved his ass.. MaxPac gets injured.. and he starts sucking again... but dont worry! He's the ultimate playoffs performer.. Playoffs come.. he's slightly better but still suck.

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07-21-2011, 01:31 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Ok...So the 2 prior years, he didn't feel the need to produce for them?Offseason talk is always this rosy stuff where everything looks like it's going to be fine, and then the **** hits the fan.

Pretty soon, this is going to be just like the Leafs board, where people are expecting everyone to be a ton better than they were last year.
Don't know and don't care...Just passing it along...

Holy *hit some people like to *itch don't they. (not like I didn't see the haters jumping all over this post...so be it)

I agree it is just talk and will be that until the season starts and he plays better or doesn't.

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07-21-2011, 01:58 PM
  #884
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Don't know and don't care...Just passing it along...

Holy *hit some people like to *itch don't they. (not like I didn't see the haters jumping all over this post...so be it)

I agree it is just talk and will be that until the season starts and he plays better or doesn't.
No point man. They've made up their minds they hate the guy. He could come out and get 80 points next year and they'd still complain. Certain fans just need a scapegoat. Pointing out the obvious that he had a bad season and needs to be better isn't enough. They have to run the guy into the ground and bring him up in every thread.

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07-21-2011, 02:04 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
For a guy that has been in a league for so long, that have won the cup, that is getting TOP money, he sure needs a lot of motivation to play hockey...

Yeah its cute that he can admit that he sucked last season and make fun of it.. but he better walk the walk next season. I still remember him saying out loud that he will step up his game when Cammy went down last year and he didn't do ****.

There was excuses after excuses for this guy last season.

He's a slow starter... 20 games later.. Gio is snakebitten... 10 games later.. its because of his other winger not named GIonta.. MaxPac comes and saved his ass.. MaxPac gets injured.. and he starts sucking again... but dont worry! He's the ultimate playoffs performer.. Playoffs come.. he's slightly better but still suck.
He was actually worse in the Playoffs, minus 6 for the series and minus 4 in game 7. Im not a gomez guy , never have been and would love to see him gone but the bottom line is management decided to keep him. As long as he wears the CH on his chest I will cheer for him and hope he can bounce back, I dont think he can be much better but There is always hope. IMO the Habs will sink or swim with Gomez this year. Like I said, hope he bounces back because we need him to play well if a cup run is in our near future

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07-21-2011, 02:09 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
No point man. They've made up their minds they hate the guy. He could come out and get 80 points next year and they'd still complain. Certain fans just need a scapegoat. Pointing out the obvious that he had a bad season and needs to be better isn't enough. They have to run the guy into the ground and bring him up in every thread.
Non-sequitur.

1) If Gomez gets 80 points next year, I guarantee you most of the forum will adore him.
2) He is most unlikely to get 80 points. The only way he might get 80 points is if he remembers how to score 20 goals.

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07-21-2011, 02:18 PM
  #887
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He was actually worse in the Playoffs, minus 6 for the series and minus 4 in game 7. Im not a gomez guy , never have been and would love to see him gone but the bottom line is management decided to keep him. As long as he wears the CH on his chest I will cheer for him and hope he can bounce back, I dont think he can be much better but There is always hope. IMO the Habs will sink or swim with Gomez this year. Like I said, hope he bounces back because we need him to play well if a cup run is in our near future
Gomez's contract will run out before the Habs drink from the Cup. Oh well, let's be philosophical about it. Moses didn't live to see the Promised Land.

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07-21-2011, 02:28 PM
  #888
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No point man. They've made up their minds they hate the guy. He could come out and get 80 points next year and they'd still complain. Certain fans just need a scapegoat. Pointing out the obvious that he had a bad season and needs to be better isn't enough. They have to run the guy into the ground and bring him up in every thread.
Pretty sure he said he needed to be better last offseason.

But hey, some people have made up their mind that some people can do no wrong, even though they continuously **** the bed, despite being top salary on the team and keep getting prime ice-time to redeem themselves.

Yup, nothing wrong in that picture.

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07-21-2011, 03:03 PM
  #889
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Pretty sure he said he needed to be better last offseason.

But hey, some people have made up their mind that some people can do no wrong, even though they continuously **** the bed, despite being top salary on the team and keep getting prime ice-time to redeem themselves.

Yup, nothing wrong in that picture.
I've said numerous times his season was awful. I just don't see the point in rebutting every shred of positive things some of us try and bring up. But what do I know. Keep booing the guy and discrediting posters who try and find positives maybe it'll help him produce more.

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07-21-2011, 03:05 PM
  #890
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2) He is most unlikely to get 80 points. The only way he might get 80 points is if he remembers how to score 20 goals.
If the percentages run high for him next year as much as they ran low this year, then Gomez might very well end up with another 80 point season. However, this is about as unlikely as a season like 2010-2011 happening to him again.

Note that neither would require any significant difference in his play. "Gomez remembering how to score 20 goals" basically amounts to "Gomez getting lucky with shooting again".

Gomez's season was freakish. Humans are not wired to accept that freakish occurences are freakish and unlikely to repeat. That's why it's become utterly impossible to discuss him rationally, and why I've generally stopped bothering.

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07-21-2011, 03:08 PM
  #891
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If the percentages run high for him next year as much as they ran low this year, then Gomez might very well end up with another 80 point season. However, this is about as unlikely as a season like 2010-2011 happening to him again.

Note that neither would require any significant difference in his play. "Gomez remembering how to score 20 goals" basically amounts to "Gomez getting lucky with shooting again".

Gomez's season was freakish. Humans are not wired to accept that freakish occurences are freakish and unlikely to repeat. That's why it's become utterly impossible to discuss him rationally, and why I've generally stopped bothering.
To me, Gomez repeating last year is much more probable than him hitting 80, which is basically impossible. Seeming how he has only scored 20 or more once in his career, he must be the player with the most bad luck ever.

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07-21-2011, 03:11 PM
  #892
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Shoot % for Gomez is irrelevant. 70% of his shot last season were not meant for scoring.

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07-21-2011, 03:14 PM
  #893
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Shoot % for Gomez is irrelevant. 70% of his shot last season were not meant for scoring.
I'm sorry, but this is just completely absurd.

You put the puck on net with the hope of scoring or generating a rebound to score. There is no other point.

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To me, Gomez repeating last year is much more probable than him hitting 80, which is basically impossible. Seeming how he has only scored 20 or more once in his career, he must be the player with the most bad luck ever.
Or maybe, just maybe he overachieved and landed himself a ridiculous contract. He's averaged around 15 goals a season his career, if he gets to that point I'll be happy.

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07-21-2011, 03:25 PM
  #894
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When one of Plekanec's linemates gets injured, he becomes a little bit worse.

When one of Gomez' linemates gets injured, he becomes significantly worse.

I don't see how this could be difficult to understand. Yes, all players are affected by their linemates. But a player who is 95% dependent on his linemates, and can only work with a small number of linemates, is too big a risk.
I remember when Plekanec got a lot worse, not just a little bit worse.

2007-08 69 pts
2008-09 39 pts
2009-10 70 pts
2010-11 57 pts

Seriously, he's up and down like a toilet seat. You seem to think that Gomez is the only guy to ever have a bad season. Pleks dropped 30 points one year, mostly because Kovalev dropped down a notch from god mode to just decent.

Not the end of the world though, Plekanec bounced up 31 points the following season, which probably has something to do with # 1 ice time and Cammalleri on his wing. Good players make Plekanec better, just like good players will make Gomez better.

I'll say it again, Markov will make everyone better next season, including Gomez. No more Moen and Darche and Pouliot on his line will also help. Expect Gomez in the 60-70 point range.

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07-21-2011, 03:25 PM
  #895
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I'm sorry, but this is just completely absurd.

You put the puck on net with the hope of scoring or generating a rebound to score. There is no other point.
Seriously? You think he actually tries to score when he shoots a 30mph from the blue line?

I'm not trying to discredit Gomez here, just saying that we can't compare his % from last season to other season because he wasn't even trying to score anymore when he shoots. I remember he took a lot of shot that has absolute no chance to score or even a rebound.

If Gomez wants to score he needs to be close to the net because his shot is not good enough to beat a goalie. Just like Darche. I still convince that he should crash the net more if he wants to score 15 goals+.

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07-21-2011, 03:35 PM
  #896
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I remember when Plekanec got a lot worse, not just a little bit worse.

2007-08 69 pts
2008-09 39 pts
2009-10 70 pts
2010-11 57 pts

Seriously, he's up and down like a toilet seat. You seem to think that Gomez is the only guy to ever have a bad season. Pleks dropped 30 points one year, mostly because Kovalev dropped down a notch from god mode to just decent.

Not the end of the world though, Plekanec bounced up 31 points the following season, which probably has something to do with # 1 ice time and Cammalleri on his wing. Good players make Plekanec better, just like good players will make Gomez better.

I'll say it again, Markov will make everyone better next season, including Gomez. No more Moen and Darche and Pouliot on his line will also help. Expect Gomez in the 60-70 point range.
Plekanec's worst season was 20 goals and 19 assists, which is better than 7 goals and 31 assists, especially once you factor in the lower contract and the fact TP was still a rock on the PK that year.

It had nothing to do with Kovalev, AK27 played fine with Lang and Koivu. TP simply had head problems that year, and that's ok because 20 goals and 19 assists with excellent PK skills was still adequate for a 2nd/3rd line center.

Assists are not equivalent to goals in hockey reality, only in stats. There are 1.5-1.8 assists per goal scored.

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07-21-2011, 03:52 PM
  #897
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Plekanec's worst season was 20 goals and 19 assists, which is better than 7 goals and 31 assists, especially once you factor in the lower contract and the fact TP was still a rock on the PK that year.

It had nothing to do with Kovalev, AK27 played fine with Lang and Koivu. TP simply had head problems that year, and that's ok because 20 goals and 19 assists with excellent PK skills was still adequate for a 2nd/3rd line center.

Assists are not equivalent to goals in hockey reality, only in stats. There are 1.5-1.8 assists per goal scored.
Still shows that good players can have a crappy year and bounce back.

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07-21-2011, 04:03 PM
  #898
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I've said numerous times his season was awful. I just don't see the point in rebutting every shred of positive things some of us try and bring up. But what do I know. Keep booing the guy and discrediting posters who try and find positives maybe it'll help him produce more.
As I said, there's no point arguing. He's a borderline top 6 forward, he's way overpaid, he's an average defender and it's quite likely this is his last season (as finding 40-50 point players for under 7.35M$ is quite easy).

There's not much room for argument to be honest. I don't really care if Gomez blows chunks again this year, but I don't think he can drop to this year's level again (though I'm not expecting him to do better). The only thing that really irks me in all of this is people who bring up him talking as a positive thing, when talking's pretty much the only thing he's been doing for the past 2 years.

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07-21-2011, 04:08 PM
  #899
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Still shows that good players can have a crappy year and bounce back.
It obvious Plekanec would bounce back.

The same is not true of Gomez.

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07-21-2011, 04:17 PM
  #900
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As I said, there's no point arguing. He's a borderline top 6 forward, he's way overpaid, he's an average defender and it's quite likely this is his last season (as finding 40-50 point players for under 7.35M$ is quite easy).

There's not much room for argument to be honest. I don't really care if Gomez blows chunks again this year, but I don't think he can drop to this year's level again (though I'm not expecting him to do better). The only thing that really irks me in all of this is people who bring up him talking as a positive thing, when talking's pretty much the only thing he's been doing for the past 2 years.
Looking over the last couple of pages, it looks like I may be the last person to post him “talking” about having a better season this year…you may or may not be speaking to me, but what I thought interesting is that Willie O’ree called him to talk about the situation he is in. No earth shattering news in what I posted, just info I passed along.

To be honest, I really don’t care if people bash him or praise him…doesn’t mean anything to me. But come on…you really let positive comments from faceless people on a message board irk you?

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