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The Official Scott Gomez Thread part tres - Siesta Edition

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Old
04-15-2011, 12:41 PM
  #126
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I'm okay paying Gomez 500k per playoff point.

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04-15-2011, 12:44 PM
  #127
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I'm okay paying Gomez 500k per playoff point.
That's only 15 points... give him 250, get his ass moving

Andale! Andale!

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04-15-2011, 12:50 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you're one of those people who focus no exactly where the puck is, and have trouble also keeping track of what other players are doing away from the puck, you'll miss a lot of what Gomez continues to struggle with. Fact: if Gionta doesn't capitalize on those two chances (giving Gomez two assists) and WE somehow lose that game 2-0, we'd still have lots of coasting in circles 50 feet from the puck, poor defensive zone coverage, difficulty managing anything except 5 foot dump-off passes once gaining possession in the offensive half of the ice, and weak ass battles for the puck to talk about.

But hey, as long as it's all part of the formula that gets the Habs the W at the end of the night, it's all good. Gomez feels his performance last game vindicates him of his struggles in the regular season. If that helps him feel more relaxed and confident out there, that's at least another step in the right direction.
I think you're being way too critical, overly so, and seemed to be grasping at straws.

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04-15-2011, 01:10 PM
  #129
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I think you're being way too critical, overly so, and seemed to be grasping at straws.
Grasping at straws? Those things DID happen, just as much as the two assists did. Too critical perhaps, given that we walked away with the win, but I don't ignore the details just because the result is favourable.

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04-15-2011, 01:27 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you're one of those people who focus no exactly where the puck is, and have trouble also keeping track of what other players are doing away from the puck, you'll miss a lot of what Gomez continues to struggle with. Fact: if Gionta doesn't capitalize on those two chances (giving Gomez two assists) and WE somehow lose that game 2-0, we'd still have lots of coasting in circles 50 feet from the puck, poor defensive zone coverage, difficulty managing anything except 5 foot dump-off passes once gaining possession in the offensive half of the ice, and weak ass battles for the puck to talk about.
Except for, you know, that cross-ice laser beam directly onto Gionta's stick for the first goal, only a moment after gaining possession deep in the Boston end.

I couldn't stand Gomez for most of the regular season, but give credit where it's due. He was solid last night, and a criticism like the one bolded is just being pulled out of the nether regions for the sake of saying something bad.

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Old
04-15-2011, 01:39 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Grasping at straws? Those things DID happen, just as much as the two assists did. Too critical perhaps, given that we walked away with the win, but I don't ignore the details just because the result is favourable.
When you dislike a player or have personal bias against them you're obviously more likely to notice the bad things they do than people who don't. (By the way not saying it's your fault if you do, Gomez gave people plenty of reasons to focus on the negatives so didn't mean it in a bad way, but it's the truth)

When I had a bit of a disliking of Spacek, I would focus too much on his shortcomings. Do the same for any player not named Plekanec, and you'll pretty much come to the same conclusion. They made more mistakes than they did score goals/assists/hit/etc.

Obviously some players like Tom Pyatt are going to be sound defensively while other guys like Gomez who are offensive players are going to make more mistakes. That also is to be expected.

I'm not denying Gomez made mistakes but did he hurt the team? No he didn't, and the end result is he directly assisted on 2 goals that won us the game and didn't hurt the team in anyway in the process. Did the guy make mistakes? Surely he did, but everyone does. I just don't see how this gives people the audacity to bash him when he had a great game.

Gomez is the kind of player who will make defensive mistakes, it's a given, but when he produces offensively you have to give credit where it's due. The problem with Gomez was never his defensive shortcomings, that's something you simply put up with for what he brings to your team. His problem was offense, and now he's produced. I don't see the issue here until he starts not only being a liability, but costing us games and also not producing.

Until that happens I'm willing to give the guy a clean slate this post season. He showed up, he worked hard, you could tell he played with a lot of heart, and he got **** done. What more can you ask for? Stop fixating on a couple bad defensive plays which didn't cost us anything and focus on the fact that he helped win us a game, which is far more important than a mistake he makes that didn't cost us zilch.

James Wiz is the same kind of player as Gomez is, a liability who makes up for it with his offensive talents. Aside from blocking a few timely shots he provided nothing for us in the way of offense last night. I don't see people jumping on the hate bandwagon for him, because well, he had a good season and people don't have personal bias against him already.

I guess the point I'm making is, it isn't that other people don't see the same game you're seeing, they just don't hyper focus on Gomez.

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Old
04-15-2011, 02:42 PM
  #132
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Listen, I get what you're all saying: "the ends justify the means". All I'm saying, is that the things that Gomez has been criticized for up to this point he still did... a lot. Perhaps overly critical, as we're supposedly paying Gomez and Gionta to provide playoff wins and they've done exactly that. Let's just say I still see lots of room for improvement (for a line that is going to get LOTS of icetime) if we're hoping to win multiple series rather than just "steal" the odd game.

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04-15-2011, 03:15 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Fact: if Gionta doesn't capitalize on those two chances (giving Gomez two assists) and WE somehow lose that game 2-0, we'd still have lots of coasting in circles 50 feet from the puck, poor defensive zone coverage, difficulty managing anything except 5 foot dump-off passes once gaining possession in the offensive half of the ice, and weak ass battles for the puck to talk about.
A lot of people spent the entire season saying "Well if (X) had only convereted on that play, Gomez has a couple of points last night," only to be told: "But he didn't, and points count."

Now he puts up a couple of points and we're talking about "If he hadn't gotten those points then _______"?

I'm not ready to give him a pass on the back of one game, but we won the game because he set up both the winning goal and the seriously important cushion goal to take the pressure off. The team had breakdowns all over the place last night, Gomez included, but if he can't get any credit for last night then he's clearly never going to get it.

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Old
04-15-2011, 04:44 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Listen, I get what you're all saying: "the ends justify the means". All I'm saying, is that the things that Gomez has been criticized for up to this point he still did... a lot. Perhaps overly critical, as we're supposedly paying Gomez and Gionta to provide playoff wins and they've done exactly that. Let's just say I still see lots of room for improvement (for a line that is going to get LOTS of icetime) if we're hoping to win multiple series rather than just "steal" the odd game.
Getting more points during the season (like he did yesterday) would have trumped everything else on the list (at least in the hive mind of the fans)

I get that we shouldn't get too high on Gomez and forgive and forget. But he DID help us win that game. That's all people are trying to tell you

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04-15-2011, 04:45 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Listen, I get what you're all saying: "the ends justify the means". All I'm saying, is that the things that Gomez has been criticized for up to this point he still did... a lot. Perhaps overly critical, as we're supposedly paying Gomez and Gionta to provide playoff wins and they've done exactly that. Let's just say I still see lots of room for improvement (for a line that is going to get LOTS of icetime) if we're hoping to win multiple series rather than just "steal" the odd game.
I agree with you about his play, but I think that's a given at this point...

what I mean is that Gomez was not, has never really been, and won't become an elite 1st line player.

his game has a lot of flaws, which were there in NJ, in NY, and now with us.

that's why he wasn't worth trading for even had he maintained his 60-70pt production from NY... not at that cap hit.

but if we can accept that, then what's the "best case" scenario? last night was it.

flawed, but productive. As long as he is able to produce/help his linemates produce, at least he's contributing to the team's success.

i think he definitely looked to be playing with more "jump" or more intensity in his game last night than we saw for the vast majority of games in the regular season, and surprise surprise (to him at least, i can't believe he's able to sit there with a strait face claim he has no idea why this season went the way it did), he was able to get some points on the board.

if he's doing that, he's giving us something.

and almost as important as contributing to wins at this time of year, if he keeps this up (and it was only 1 game), he might just do enough to make it possible to trade him, and be done with this mess once and for all...



habs won last night using last year's playoff formula... all-star goaltending, timely scoring, and letting the other team own the defensive zone for big stretches.

that's not a recipe for cup success, nothing is impossible, but as we saw last year, the majic goaltending/clutch scoring can only carry you so far, eventually the weight of being outplayed game-in game-out catches up.

as long as our roster is handicapped by Gomez's albatross contract, it will be very difficult to upgrade the roster to the point of being able to actually compete against other top teams, as opposed to the "turtle shell" approach the coaching staff - appropriately given the roster- relies on.

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Old
04-15-2011, 09:45 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Getting more points during the season (like he did yesterday) would have trumped everything else on the list (at least in the hive mind of the fans)

I get that we shouldn't get too high on Gomez and forgive and forget. But he DID help us win that game. That's all people are trying to tell you
If we go back and count, how many times have I already said exactly that? I bet it's twice, if not more. Came on a night when the Bruins played far from their best hockey AND Carey was at the top of his game, though (and 5 man coverage in the defensive zone was consistently excellent as a unit shift after shift). On any other night, the way Gomez played, he could still have set up two goals, but could just as easily have been on the ice for more than two goals against. That's all I've been trying to say in response.

The habits that have kept him from being "successful" this year were still readily apparent last night, which is an issue if we are going to have no flexibility (injuries, etc) to slide him down into a bottom 6 role IF his rewards don't continue to outweigh his risks. It is the playoffs though, and that first game seemed to visibly remove a weight of burden from Gomez's shoulders, so maybe there's a good chance he'll keep on rolling.

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I agree with you about his play, but I think that's a given at this point...

what I mean is that Gomez was not, has never really been, and won't become an elite 1st line player.

his game has a lot of flaws, which were there in NJ, in NY, and now with us.

that's why he wasn't worth trading for even had he maintained his 60-70pt production from NY... not at that cap hit.

but if we can accept that, then what's the "best case" scenario? last night was it.

flawed, but productive. As long as he is able to produce/help his linemates produce, at least he's contributing to the team's success.

i think he definitely looked to be playing with more "jump" or more intensity in his game last night than we saw for the vast majority of games in the regular season, and surprise surprise (to him at least, i can't believe he's able to sit there with a strait face claim he has no idea why this season went the way it did), he was able to get some points on the board.

if he's doing that, he's giving us something.

and almost as important as contributing to wins at this time of year, if he keeps this up (and it was only 1 game), he might just do enough to make it possible to trade him, and be done with this mess once and for all...



habs won last night using last year's playoff formula... all-star goaltending, timely scoring, and letting the other team own the defensive zone for big stretches.

that's not a recipe for cup success, nothing is impossible, but as we saw last year, the majic goaltending/clutch scoring can only carry you so far, eventually the weight of being outplayed game-in game-out catches up.

as long as our roster is handicapped by Gomez's albatross contract, it will be very difficult to upgrade the roster to the point of being able to actually compete against other top teams, as opposed to the "turtle shell" approach the coaching staff - appropriately given the roster- relies on.
Hey, look... that's all fair enough. Really good post, actually. I'm just saying, there are a lot of people around here who would openly criticize other fanbases' "fair weather tendencies" and/or lack of "objective" reasoning, etc, who are more than happy to state things like "Gomez played a great game" or "his best game of the year" or the like. I find it amusing enough to discuss at some length, apparently.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 04-15-2011 at 09:56 PM.
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Old
04-15-2011, 10:18 PM
  #137
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To be honest, I didn't really notice him. He did have a nice steal to set up a goal though. I'm glad that he was able to put up a couple of points. He's had a rough year and I hope he finds some redemption in the postseason. Last night was a good start.

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Old
04-17-2011, 01:24 AM
  #138
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he has a good game... people fall over themselves to point out what a clutch playoff performer he is.

he has an average game, where he is directly responsible for the only goal against.... crickets.


let's hope on monday he's back to putting up points

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Old
04-17-2011, 05:19 AM
  #139
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he has a good game... people fall over themselves to point out what a clutch playoff performer he is.

he has an average game, where he is directly responsible for the only goal against.... crickets.


let's hope on monday he's back to putting up points

Lol! (crickets!). Well...it's quite loud tonight in Montreal...busy being happy!!
It would be weird if we all got down on Gomez after that 3-1 victory!!

As you can tell...I'm a Gomez defender (not always easy! ), but...he really was responsible for that only goal by the Bruins. He got caught looking at the passer instead of being on his guy.

Too bad 'cause we maybe had a chance at another shutout for our Price. Then again I think we got away with 1 or 2 posts (even the best goalies know how to somehow/sometimes use a bit of luck to their advantage). And a 1 goal game is almost like a shutout, and the V is everything anyway.

Hopefully we won't see this anymore from Gomez (or any other Hab) for the rest of the playoffs. But still...who wants to bash anyone after a solid 3-1 victory.


Go Gomez Go! (repeat game 1's performance!)


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 04-17-2011 at 05:31 AM.
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Old
04-17-2011, 12:45 PM
  #140
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He had a bad game2 but was still better than he was in the season. I'm okay with that.

It's the playoffs, complaining won't be worth it. Just cheer the team on and whine about the other team diving/refs/luck.

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04-17-2011, 02:00 PM
  #141
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Carlos has been great when it counts so far.

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Old
04-22-2011, 08:43 PM
  #142
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Will Game 5 in Boston determine whether the long term future of Gomez will be with the Canadiens or with some other team?

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04-22-2011, 08:46 PM
  #143
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Will Game 5 in Boston determine whether the long term future of Gomez will be with the Canadiens or with some other team?
Nope. He could put up 3 points and we could lose the game and it would have no impact on his long term bearing.

He could be completely useless and we could win the game and it would have no impact on his long term bearing.

We are pretty much stuck with him next year no matter what.

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04-22-2011, 08:51 PM
  #144
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Below average game2,3,4

Hope he picks it up

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04-22-2011, 09:16 PM
  #145
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We are pretty much stuck with him next year no matter what.
Depressing...

Gomez has been marginally better in the playoffs so far. But not to the level that would come anywhere close to excusing his horrible regular season play. It would be one thing if we were talking about Claude Lemieux type playoffs performances but showing up half a game here and there and being horrible defensively isn't my idea of playoffs warrior.

McDo or Gomez..

Still can't believe people defend Gainey on this trade. What a horrible horrible trade.

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04-22-2011, 10:24 PM
  #146
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Depressing...

Gomez has been marginally better in the playoffs so far. But not to the level that would come anywhere close to excusing his horrible regular season play. It would be one thing if we were talking about Claude Lemieux type playoffs performances but showing up half a game here and there and being horrible defensively isn't my idea of playoffs warrior.

McDo or Gomez..

Still can't believe people defend Gainey on this trade. What a horrible horrible trade.
seriously...

Forget about the future, RIGHT NOW the habs would be better off with McDo in the lineup than they are with Gomez.

McDo playing 24min/game in a stout defensive role would go a long way to making our defense look a lot better...
Gill & Hamrlik would get to play fewer minutes, thus being more effective (as was seen all season long), and perhaps more importantly, we'd only need to see one of Sopel/Spacek in the lineup.

That plus to the team would far outweigh whatever marginal downgrade we'd have by giving Eller/DD a lot more minutes/responsibility.

and before one of the Gomez fans gets red in the face about how Gomez does what those two young guys can't matching up against better lines, let's remember that Gomez was on the ice for 4 goals last night... 4 freaking goals... if it wasn't his fault on any of them, then we'd obviously be better off with an upgraded defense, and if it was his fault, well again upgrading the defense would only help.


all we can hope for is that the Molson's (especially with Geoff taking over as president) see what is painfully obvious, and have the balls/financial fortitude to suck it up and give the OK to ship him to Hamilton if Gauthier can't pawn him off somewhere.

Redden is no worse a dman than Gomez is a centre at this point, no reason he should be the sole Sather gaffe wallowing in the AHL.

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04-23-2011, 01:23 AM
  #147
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seriously...

Forget about the future, RIGHT NOW the habs would be better off with McDo in the lineup than they are with Gomez.

McDo playing 24min/game in a stout defensive role would go a long way to making our defense look a lot better...
Gill & Hamrlik would get to play fewer minutes, thus being more effective (as was seen all season long), and perhaps more importantly, we'd only need to see one of Sopel/Spacek in the lineup.

That plus to the team would far outweigh whatever marginal downgrade we'd have by giving Eller/DD a lot more minutes/responsibility.

and before one of the Gomez fans gets red in the face about how Gomez does what those two young guys can't matching up against better lines, let's remember that Gomez was on the ice for 4 goals last night... 4 freaking goals... if it wasn't his fault on any of them, then we'd obviously be better off with an upgraded defense, and if it was his fault, well again upgrading the defense would only help.


all we can hope for is that the Molson's (especially with Geoff taking over as president) see what is painfully obvious, and have the balls/financial fortitude to suck it up and give the OK to ship him to Hamilton if Gauthier can't pawn him off somewhere.

Redden is no worse a dman than Gomez is a centre at this point, no reason he should be the sole Sather gaffe wallowing in the AHL.
Amen to that.

Gomez sucks and I hope a loony GM will trade for him, but if it doesn't happen, please send his ass to Hamilton.

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04-23-2011, 01:51 AM
  #148
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Depressing...

Gomez has been marginally better in the playoffs so far. But not to the level that would come anywhere close to excusing his horrible regular season play. It would be one thing if we were talking about Claude Lemieux type playoffs performances but showing up half a game here and there and being horrible defensively isn't my idea of playoffs warrior.

McDo or Gomez..

Still can't believe people defend Gainey on this trade. What a horrible horrible trade.
But...but...but...we were told to wait for the playoffs so that the trade would then make sense....I still don't see it....maybe they meant NEXT YEAR'S playoffs....

But everything will be put on Moen or Darche....while you should expect a guy like Gomez to be able to make them better.

A terrible trade indeed. But a trade needed because of our inability to find a centerman in the draft since a whole lot of years....And based on the fact that Koivu was finished....or that Plekanec is not a real #1 centerman. A whole lot of strange decisions that created an awful one.

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04-23-2011, 01:57 AM
  #149
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I certainly am not a Gomez fan by any means and certainly don't like the trade but what is it about DD or Eller in these playoffs that make you think they would easily replace what he does? A nice couple shifts where they maintained possesion in the offensive zone grinding the puck along the boards? That is barely good enough for a 3rd line in the playoffs forget about a scoring line.

I love Eller but he is not there yet. Neither him nor DD can produce points against weaker opposition they sure are not going to do it with 20+ minutes against Bergeron.

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04-23-2011, 01:58 AM
  #150
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Gomez was good in game 1... but looks like he went back to "season" mode.

I hope we don't see this guy next season.

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