I certainly am not a Gomez fan by any means and certainly don't like the trade but what is it about DD or Eller in these playoffs that make you think they would easily replace what he does?
I love Eller but he is not there yet. Neither him nor DD can produce points against weaker opposition they sure are not going to do it with 20+ minutes against Bergeron.
DD can't put points because his wingers are not meant to.
Put DD with Gio and the PP and you will see he will get points here and there, like Gomez.
DD was playing against Bruins' top line (Krejci's line) last game, and his line did a marvelous job shutting them down. Gomez's line on the other was facing Bruins 3rd line (Perverly's) and failed miserably against them.
At this point, I think DD is better than Gomez in almost every category. Not saying that DD is ready for a full season as a 2nd center but he can certainly take Gomez's spot next season.
Neither DD or Ellet are getting 20+ mins. All the failures of the past 2 years fall on the most expensive worhless player in the league.
He's making $7 mill and has yet woken up.
IMO he's not worth more then an entry level contract. If he's not sent down or traded, this is one Habs fan that won't be watching a lot of hockey next year. Don't care if he ends up with 90pts. It's no excuse for taking 3 seasons off when you are making more then Gretzky did at the same age.
Did you even notice Horton or Lucic last game? You are not going to tell me DD shut them both down. Forget about assignments we both know full well DD did not play more against the Krejci line than Pleks. Please. Ryder was having one of his better games in Game 4, far superior to Horton and Lucic and not simply because of the forwards against him. Who else was on for most of those goals against? Spacek and Sopel. Gomez was on for the 5th goal but really you are going to blame him? His man wasn't even in the picture. On the 3rd goal Wiznieski was out at the ****in blue line doing god knows what.
And name me specific instances especially in the first 3 games where DD set up his linemates for any chances. How about 3. Gomez set up Moen for 3 great chances last game but Moen as usual couldn't bury them. DD has played with Pouliot and Darche who I think we can both agree are better offensive options. Give me some instances in those first 3 games, hell even use the 4th to show me some great playmaking by him.
And just to note, don't make this out to be like I am defending Gomez for doing his job. I certainly expect more from him. I don't want him here next season either.
But comments like Eller or DD could do better really confuse me because sure those 2 give it there all most shifts but we are satisfied with them because we don't EXPECT anything from them. Did you like Eller when he filled in for Gomez earlier in the year? Probably not. How about when he played the wing on the top lines? Probably not because it showed us all how much more effective he was as a center.
Did you even notice DD in the last stretch of the season? Did he really impress you offensively in the first 3 games? Sure he is better on the PK and maybe even PP but 5 on 5 to produce chances? Not from what I have seen.
Neither DD or Ellet are getting 20+ mins. All the failures of the past 2 years fall on the most expensive worhless player in the league.
He's making $7 mill and has yet woken up.
IMO he's not worth more then an entry level contract. If he's not sent down or traded, this is one Habs fan that won't be watching a lot of hockey next year. Don't care if he ends up with 90pts. It's no excuse for taking 3 seasons off when you are making more then Gretzky did at the same age.
not yet woken up? Disagree. Great game 1 and 2 and since then his linemates have not potted their chances. His loss of the open man has occurred twice. I can name people who have done that more.
Comparing salaries between two different eras is not really a good analysis, or the fact that Glen Sather chose that ridiculous price. He was NEVER worth that amount and never pretended to be. They gave it to him and that's that. Gotta get over it. And if he gets 90 pts, you wouldn't forgive him for the past two Habs seasons why? Since he's been here, have we absolutely sucked? Last year was the best year since the Cup and this year remains to be seen what happens, including the Boston series (I bet if he scores or sets up the series winner, you'll be quite happy with him).
I agree with you about DD and Eller though, if you're saying they are solid players. I agree. And as for DD not putting up points: He's a playmaker and his number one target was Max Pacioretty. After that, Pouliot. The guy is incredible and with capable scorers would be putting up mad points.
I didn't notice DD much but I sure as hell didn't notice the Alaskan Mexican either (or all season long)
Name me 3 instances where DD set up an offensively challenged player like Moen for scoring opportunity in all 4 games. Gomez did it in one game, Game 4, which we all can agree was his worst.
If you are going to make comments, let's back them up with facts. If you want to play this stupid my opinion is truth game and make baseless comments go to the Bruins board and have a gay old time.
not yet woken up? Disagree. Great game 1 and 2 and since then his linemates have not potted their chances. His loss of the open man has occurred twice. I can name people who have done that more.
Comparing salaries between two different eras is not really a good analysis, or the fact that Glen Sather chose that ridiculous price. He was NEVER worth that amount and never pretended to be. They gave it to him and that's that. Gotta get over it. And if he gets 90 pts, you wouldn't forgive him for the past two Habs seasons why? Since he's been here, have we absolutely sucked? Last year was the best year since the Cup and this year remains to be seen what happens, including the Boston series (I bet if he scores or sets up the series winner, you'll be quite happy with him).
I agree with you about DD and Eller though, if you're saying they are solid players. I agree. And as for DD not putting up points: He's a playmaker and his number one target was Max Pacioretty. After that, Pouliot. The guy is incredible and with capable scorers would be putting up mad points.
I don't give a **** if Gomez played well in games 1 and 2. What about 3 and 4? He's MAKING $7million. He should be playing EVERY game
The comparison with Gretzky shows how pathetic Lolmez is. He's making more then the greatest player of all time did!!
He's making just shy of $60million in 7 years compared to Gretzky's (from 90-99) $40 million!
How anyone can defend Gomez is beyond me. And yes, even if he has a 90pt season I still won't watch. Just like I did with Kovalev for 2 years. I'm not one for mediocrity. I want the best from the team I would kill to play for. The NHL needs to dump guaranteed contracts so half these *******s that destroy the sport can get fired.
Really wish this was the '90s. The hockey was so much better IMO.
I should have continued to play hockey after getting a try-out with the Generals cuz I would have played for the Habs for $500k for my entire career. But that's just me.
So disappointed in how this sport has turned out.
Name me 3 instances where DD set up an offensively challenged player like Moen for scoring opportunity in all 4 games. Gomez did it in one game, Game 4, which we all can agree was his worst.
If you are going to make comments, let's back them up with facts. If you want to play this stupid my opinion is truth game and make baseless comments go to the Bruins board and have a gay old time.
I can name a number of instances where Gomez turned the puck over before being pressured. Or the fact he doesn't go into corner or infront of the the net.
If you like mediocre players and think they are superstars after one game become a Leaf fan because it would suite you better.
Lol @ Gomez playing well for 2 games and setting up 4 opportunities to score is vindication for his lack luster play for 10 months prior.
Be happy with Gomez cuz the Habs aren't going far with him around.
I can name a number of instances where Gomez turned the puck over before being pressured. Or the fact he doesn't go into corner or infront of the the net.
If you like mediocre players and think they are superstars after one game become a Leaf fan because it would suite you better.
Lol @ Gomez playing well for 2 games and setting up 4 opportunities to score is vindication for his lack luster play for 10 months prior.
Be happy with Gomez cuz the Habs aren't going far with him around.
You still have not answered my question. I can also name instances where DD has turned the puck over or more even more lost a puck battle along the boards.
Who are you talking to when you say I like mediocre player who show up for 2 playoff games? When did I say that? When did I say I would be happy with Gomez sticking around?
If you would actually read my posts you would know I am not defending Gomez. You know I am not a fan of his. You would know I don't want him on this team next year. So saying I think his play has vindicated his lack luster play is making you out to look like some drunken manic depressive idiot right now.
Try not to be so emotional and talk with your head and not your heart. You might make more sense.
All you are doing is arguing your point with nothing to back your argument up and farting random ***** out of your mouth saying I said things I never did.
Name me 3 instances where DD set up an offensively challenged player like Moen for scoring opportunity in all 4 games. Gomez did it in one game, Game 4, which we all can agree was his worst.
If you are going to make comments, let's back them up with facts. If you want to play this stupid my opinion is truth game and make baseless comments go to the Bruins board and have a gay old time.
Facts?
Game 1:
Gomez = 14 minutes of even strenght
DD: 7 minutes
Game 2
Gomez = 15 minutes
DD = 8 minutes
Should I go on? You don't think playing more should give you more opportunity to make plays and produce? End result is that Gomez is there to produce, ES and PP. DD is there to LEARN the game (as a rookie), to play the PK and sometimes the PP and to not let the other teams produce on him. And with the limited time he has, end result is that so far, Gomez has 3 assists and -3, DD has 1 assist and is even.
Yet, you're talking about how Moen is an offensive liability, he's still a vet NHL player. And then there's Gionta who also kinda helps the play a little, if not by being on the end of a Gomez pass, by making the line more effective.
While on top of everything I already said, DD has been paired with Pouliot and White or Pyatt and White or Halpern and Pyatt. Which are NOT only just as offensive liabilities than Moen....but 3 out of 4 ends up being new to this league and have to deal with other stuff than just being bad offensively....adding to the fact that so is Desharnais.
Now I like Desharnais. Am I convinced is the solution to our future? Not sure. But he was amongst the best player in the 2nd part of the season while Mr. Gomez still thought it was preseason. And with the last game he played, he might just be 1 or 2 periods behind what Gomez has brought so far. But hey, Gomez moves his feet pretty fast....it has to count for something.
Game 1:
Gomez = 14 minutes of even strenght
DD: 7 minutes
Game 2
Gomez = 15 minutes
DD = 8 minutes
Should I go on? You don't think playing more should give you more opportunity to make plays and produce? End result is that Gomez is there to produce, ES and PP. DD is there to LEARN the game (as a rookie), to play the PK and sometimes the PP and to not let the other teams produce on him. And with the limited time he has, end result is that so far, Gomez has 3 assists and -3, DD has 1 assist and is even.
Yet, you're talking about how Moen is an offensive liability, he's still a vet NHL player. And then there's Gionta who also kinda helps the play a little, if not by being on the end of a Gomez pass, by making the line more effective.
While on top of everything I already said, DD has been paired with Pouliot and White or Pyatt and White or Halpern and Pyatt. Which are NOT only just as offensive liabilities than Moen....but 3 out of 4 ends up being new to this league and have to deal with other stuff than just being bad offensively....adding to the fact that so is Desharnais.
Now I like Desharnais. Am I convinced is the solution to our future? Not sure. But he was amongst the best player in the 2nd part of the season while Mr. Gomez still thought it was preseason. And with the last game he played, he might just be 1 or 2 periods behind what Gomez has brought so far. But hey, Gomez moves his feet pretty fast....it has to count for something.
Hey, I like DD too. I like Eller more. If either of them were setting up Pyatt's and Pouliot's for a couple nice scoring chances per game than I would be pushing for them to be playing more. Just like in the middle of the season when both Eller and DD had their respective hot streaks with Darche and Pouliot, I wanted them to play more and take some of Gomez's ice time time, whether it be even strenght or PP.
Regardless of Moen being a vet or not, all our guys like him, White and Darche (who I think we can agree despite less experience is a better offensive option, that DD played with), all they know is that when they don't have the puck in the offensive zone,they have to charge towards the net. And all I know is Gomez is the only center of the three we have named, that is landing a pass to create a scoring change for either of these players.
Sure, Gomez is in the midst of a pathetic goal scoring slump. Once again, I am no fan, I won't argue against his demotion IF it were to happen (although we know it won't because Martin rides and dies with his vets) but I do not currently see anything from Eller or DD that would suggest otherwise. I don't see anything from them, WITH, like you say, lesser linemates, against WEAKER opposition, that would lead me to believe the Montreal Canadiens would be better off. I don't care what they did in the middle of the season when guys like Pouliot have success.
Last edited by holyhabs87: 04-23-2011 at 02:44 AM.
You still have not answered my question. I can also name instances where DD has turned the puck over or more even more lost a puck battle along the boards.
No you can't. Know how I know? Our buddy Mr. Boucher (<3) watches the tapes and counts them all. Know the results? Gomez won 33% of his offensive zone puck battles vs Desharnais' 67%. Gomez won 25% of his defensive zone puck battles vs Desharnais' 40%. Also, Gomez's passing percentage was 14% better in the offensive zone, while Desharnais' was 12% than Gomez's in the defensive zone... so that's pretty much a wash. This is just for game 4, mind you, but I'll dig back even further if you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87
Try not to be so emotional and talk with your head and not your heart. You might make more sense.
All you are doing is arguing your point with nothing to back your argument up and farting random ***** out of your mouth saying I said things I never did.
Apparently Koivu was done and couldn't do it anymore and Gomez was more of a playoffs warrior than Koivu (what a joke). Koivu even with half a leg, one eye and 6 years older produces double what Gomez does in the playoffs. Now THAT is a playoffs warrior.
Apparently Koivu was done and couldn't do it anymore and Gomez was more of a playoffs warrior than Koivu (what a joke). Koivu even with half a leg, one eye and 6 years older produces double what Gomez does in the playoffs. Now THAT is a playoffs warrior.
Please, it's depressing enough to talk about Gomez abyssmal production... if we start comparing him to captain courage, we'll cry
Name me 3 instances where DD set up an offensively challenged player like Moen for scoring opportunity in all 4 games. Gomez did it in one game, Game 4, which we all can agree was his worst.
If you are going to make comments, let's back them up with facts. If you want to play this stupid my opinion is truth game and make baseless comments go to the Bruins board and have a gay old time.
LOL true. To be fair, DD worked behind the net like a maniac (getting past 2 d-men at one point ) and set up a few nice plays. Not enough to warrant 2nd line assignments, but when Martin changes up the lines mid-game and plays him with better wingers (I think at some point Cammy was playing with him), he looked good.
No you can't. Know how I know? Our buddy Mr. Boucher (<3) watches the tapes and counts them all. Know the results? Gomez won 33% of his offensive zone puck battles vs Desharnais' 67%. Gomez won 25% of his defensive zone puck battles vs Desharnais' 40%. Also, Gomez's passing percentage was 14% better in the offensive zone, while Desharnais' was 12% than Gomez's in the defensive zone... so that's pretty much a wash. This is just for game 4, mind you, but I'll dig back even further if you like.
Sure, go dig. Do it for all the games.
Then compare it to who were the opponents on the ice.
The take into account how those opponents were playing in each game and bring up their puck battle percentages in each game.
Name me 3 instances where DD set up an offensively challenged player like Moen for scoring opportunity in all 4 games. Gomez did it in one game, Game 4, which we all can agree was his worst.
If you are going to make comments, let's back them up with facts. If you want to play this stupid my opinion is truth game and make baseless comments go to the Bruins board and have a gay old time.
DD is playing with Pyatt and White, not exactly offensive juggernauts? I dont mind if he doenst produce but u cant be on the ice for 4 goals.
you guys are being way too harsh on Gomez. He's picked up his game a bit in the PO, he has 3 points and a modest - 3
Lets compare him to another player... ok, off the top of my head, lets use Chris Drury ... in 4 PO games he has 1 assist... at about the same cap-hit... so why are you fans acting so spoiled???
And on top of it all, he still has 3 more years to redeem himself ... so cut him some slack and have a little patience... I swear we have the most demanding fans sometimes!!!
Only good news is that this trade has all the potential to put all the other bad trades behind us....so we'd concentrate on how bad that one was....As far as Valentenko is concerned, it's either a really big coincidence or the Rags do something great to their Russians and we don't....We will never know what Cherepanov would have done but there was strong rumors he was going to come real soon (I know, Emelin's strong rumors are there for 5 years now...), still they didn't have the same problems with them than we did in the past few years. Mind you, Avtsin is the bright story and we'll see if it will remain the same....in the meantime, I would be that a lot of people were not expecting to see Valentenko coming back so soon and then he does. And the thing is while it's tough to compare Emelin's situation to Anisimov's for example, well you have 1 example involving the same player....Valentenko who leaves us....to come back strong for them.
I just will never understand how the heck we had our hands so tied so we'd have to sacrifice those D's for an already known overrated player replacing the captain of this team. While some people will use the "media and fans wanted Koivu out" so we had to do it excuse, well I'M pretty sure that the pressure was way more on as far as keeping Halak than getting rid of Koivu and yet this organization couldn't care less of what people had to say as far as Halak is concerned so why not Koivu as well? If it was purely a hockey decision, well it also was a bad one. Not only that but if you decide to get rid of all the deadwood on the back end, the only guy waiting in Hamilton is....Carle. Yes, you also have Weber waiting. But imagine the depth with McDo and Valentenko now......
from the first shift of the game, almost every time Gomez is on the ice, the B's end up with a good scoring chance.
Pleks line (while they did give up a goal on a lucky bounce), were the only line creating scoring chances consistently, without causing too many in return.
DD's line and Eller's line... pretty even all night, no really big chances against, and a few decent chances for.
luckily, Martin decided to keep playing eller in the third period, and voila... Goal.
and another solid chance a few minutes later.
Time for Martin to switch up the C depth chart.
it should read:
Pleks- Eller -DD- Gomez... end of story.
didn't get scored on tonight...
didn't "hurt" the team tonight...
didn't do ANYTHING...
I guess we should almost be appreciative after last games -3.
but if the people upstairs actually care about this franchise, then there is no way you go into the next season with this guy on your active roster... no way.
) and set up a few nice plays. Not enough to warrant 2nd line assignments, but when Martin changes up the lines mid-game and plays him with better wingers (I think at some point Cammy was playing with him), he looked good.
