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The Official Scott Gomez Thread part tres - Siesta Edition

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Old
04-24-2011, 12:29 AM
  #201
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Strangely our "reputation" wasn't that bad when we overpaid all of them and they all came in the end. Now, I know this period is an overpayment period, you can't want a guy in the UFA and not expect to overpay him, yet, words are that Gionta and Cammy would have never received it elsewhere even if TO was interested in Cammy. So I will not believe it will get worst if this happen, players know what Gomez is about, they saw and see his performance, and if sending him down makes room for them, they'll sign.

Hey, Gainey have sent Laraque home....what's our reputation after that?
Gionta, Cammalleri are overpaid by at least $0.5m.

Laraque is a scrub so he doesn't really matter. It's like putting Paul Mara on waivers.

Montreal's reputation with FAs is definitely improving but have fun thinking you'll land every FA... say Brad Richards.

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04-24-2011, 12:41 AM
  #202
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cammalleri is overpaid. i agree. what was the alternative to signing him? re-signing kovalev at 5M? that would have been a better idea and not an overpayment? havlat at 5M? that s not an overpayment? sitting on the money? was that going to get us more points?

who cares if he is overpaid or not. that will not win or lose you a game.

spending your money on the best possible option. that will win you games.

gomez is not our best option. spending so much on D is not our best option.
it's also about team makeup...

overpaying for Cammy was one thing, but overpaying for a lesser version identical to him in Gionta was stupid.

how many tiny 1-dimensional shooters do you need in your top 6? especially when you already have undersized top-6 centres.


you spend your money on the best team possible, but given the factors (cap, ELC's, RFA contract's, UFA market) you have to be methodical in your planning and ensure that you manage your assets in a way that allows you to always have your big money invested in players that can deliver and enough flexibility to manipulate your complementary players as needed to address holes that come about due to injuries and inability to retain players looking for too much money as UFA's.

we seriously screwed that up in 09. with 11 ufa's, and a pretty solid group of prospects in the organization, we were in a perfect place to tweak the roster from year to year and build into a contender... instead we went for a "home run", gave up a really quality asset in the process, and ended up with a team no better than the one we had built up in preceeding years.

now, with the money tied long-term to Gomez-Cammy-Gio, there is a lot less flexibility, and short of Cammy actually taking a step toward becoming a consistent producer instead of a timely one, none of the three are the kind of "carry the franchise" players that contending teams have as their top salary guys

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04-24-2011, 12:44 AM
  #203
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Considering you'll have to lock up Subban and Price, if you want to improve the team, Gomez will probably have to be buried unless you patch the holes with scrubs/youngsters on ELC (~$1m cap hit max) like Chicago did this year.

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04-24-2011, 08:04 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
Gionta, Cammalleri are overpaid by at least $0.5m.

Laraque is a scrub so he doesn't really matter. It's like putting Paul Mara on waivers.

Montreal's reputation with FAs is definitely improving but have fun thinking you'll land every FA... say Brad Richards.
Yeah, only .5 for Gionta.....reason why Lamoriello who LOVES the guy said to him to jump on Montreal offer since he was not going to receive anything close to it from him or elsewhere.

My point about Laraque is not that he's a scrub or not. The point was about the reputation, well even if you're a scrub, that reputation might be affected when you take a player and ask him to go home while being fully paid.

Yep, I don't think we'll end up getting all the FA's 'cause some don't want to play here. But it's not a reason to do stupid moves just because somebody wouldn't mind And personnally while every single move that was made was NOT stupid as far as the move itself, the identity that was created by that move is the real issue.

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04-24-2011, 08:22 AM
  #205
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And personnally while every single move that was made was NOT stupid as far as the move itself, the identity that was created by that move is the real issue.
You have nailed it with that comment.

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Old
04-24-2011, 08:35 AM
  #206
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Fans petition to get him off the team?

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Old
04-24-2011, 08:41 AM
  #207
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Fans petition to get him off the team?
Won't happen. The only thing we can hope is that he will be better next year. The pressure will be on him right from the start, just like it was for Price this year. Then, boo birds will come flying and the org. will have to make a call based on the distraction it will cause.

It's somewhat unfortunate for him though 'cause out of the 3 reasons we hate him, 2 he's absolutely not responsible of:

1- Because of who we traded him for
2- The salary he's making and the cap space he's taking
3- And his play in itself

The guy starts with 2 strikes already....and he's not exactly swinging for the fences either...

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Old
04-24-2011, 08:45 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Fans petition to get him off the team?
could you imagine Geoff Molson's and Gauthier's facial expression as they peek out of their office window at the bell centre staring at 5,000 -10,000 fans chanting for an end to the Gomez era...

There's no doubt Gomez is returning, imo...

but a mass anti-gomez outbreak by media/fans could make it a bit interesting!

But realistically, the most I expect is some petition to be floated around with a few hundred signatures.

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04-24-2011, 08:51 AM
  #209
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it's also about team makeup...

overpaying for Cammy was one thing, but overpaying for a lesser version identical to him in Gionta was stupid.

how many tiny 1-dimensional shooters do you need in your top 6? especially when you already have undersized top-6 centres.


you spend your money on the best team possible, but given the factors (cap, ELC's, RFA contract's, UFA market) you have to be methodical in your planning and ensure that you manage your assets in a way that allows you to always have your big money invested in players that can deliver and enough flexibility to manipulate your complementary players as needed to address holes that come about due to injuries and inability to retain players looking for too much money as UFA's.

we seriously screwed that up in 09. with 11 ufa's, and a pretty solid group of prospects in the organization, we were in a perfect place to tweak the roster from year to year and build into a contender... instead we went for a "home run", gave up a really quality asset in the process, and ended up with a team no better than the one we had built up in preceeding years.

now, with the money tied long-term to Gomez-Cammy-Gio, there is a lot less flexibility, and short of Cammy actually taking a step toward becoming a consistent producer instead of a timely one, none of the three are the kind of "carry the franchise" players that contending teams have as their top salary guys
Gionta is not at all the same kind of player as Cammy. Gionta plays kind of like a small powerforward, being very aggressive on the forecheck and in front of the net, and he just tries to put shots on the net.

Cammy is a sniper and far more of a skill player. I don't think you can compare these two at all other than to say that they are both small. And Cammy will take a big step toward being a consistent producer with Markov in the line up.

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Old
04-24-2011, 09:33 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Won't happen. The only thing we can hope is that he will be better next year. The pressure will be on him right from the start, just like it was for Price this year. Then, boo birds will come flying and the org. will have to make a call based on the distraction it will cause.

It's somewhat unfortunate for him though 'cause out of the 3 reasons we hate him, 2 he's absolutely not responsible of:

1- Because of who we traded him for
2- The salary he's making and the cap space he's taking
3- And his play in itself

The guy starts with 2 strikes already....and he's not exactly swinging for the fences either...
Points #1 and #2 don't really matter.

1) I don't mind that we moved McDonagh. There is no way he'd really develop here anyhow with Subban getting all the rookie ice-time. I love having Pyatt anyway - and Higgins, while still good, never turned into a superstar. I still don't like the trade but not because of who we gave up but because of who we got.

2) We knew he was overpaid and never going to live up to his contract. If he could score 55-points, I don't think the fanbase would be happy we have him, but we could live with him like last year. I wasn't happy we had him, but 59 points wasn't atrocious, I guess.

3) His play is making points #1 and #2 far, far worse. I think trading Aaron Downey for Gomez would have still had fans upset with what he's brought. 38 points? Is that a joke? Desharnais had 22-points in half the games. Mathieu Darche had freaking 26-points in 21-less games. James Wisniewski had just 8 less points in half the games! Not only that, but despite being 32nd (yes, 32nd) on the team in +/- (-15, -8 worse than the next forward), he still played the 3rd most among forwards on the team. I know that's not technically his call, but the guy could of at least tried to produce. His production rate (points per minute played) is so horrendous, I don't even want to say it.

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Old
04-24-2011, 09:37 AM
  #211
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Gomez should take # 11 off his back, and go back to # 91......the hockey gods insist...

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Old
04-24-2011, 09:46 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Gomez was putrid as ever tonight. He showed some flashes in Game 1 but he's back to being his old self now.

I've never called for a Hab to be booed but I hope the crowd gets impatient with him next game. He's a million times worse than Brisebois ever was in every possible way. Hell, good old Patrice usually produced at the same rate he did this year, as a defensemen.

Boo Gomez until management (especially Martin) realizes he has nothing to bring to this team. He's bringing down Gionta who gets his shots and points despite him.



I'd honestly rather have Chris Drury right now. Far more useful in a bottom 6 role, better leadership and he looks like he cares.
Clearly you haven't seen Drury play much lately. The only thing better about Drury over Gomez is that Drury's albatross contract ends within one year, rather than having three years left.

EDIT: Ok, that's not entirely far -- he did have a great faceoff percentage against the Caps, too. Best $7m faceoff specialist in the league, bar none!

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Old
04-24-2011, 10:14 AM
  #213
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Gomez step up for game 1 of the playoffs and thats it... if gomez dont rebound in the playoffs and believe me he wont... he will finnish the playoffs with as lame numbers as he did during the regular season... he just wont get his nose dirty he his afraid of making plays in dangerous zones... is it that hard to see? Okay yont dont want to shoot ... okay yon dont want to get hurt.. okay you suck defensively... but for the love of God at least back check with speed.. i dont know what else to say about him
.. when we got him i was like... WTF now I am like O!!!!MG????.

I really really wonder if gomez may have had the worst bang for the buck ever for a forward... him and laraque probably tops that list... and surely now is there with Drury... sorry didnt check the numbers... this 7.2m could have been so usefull for that missing piece in offense we so desperatly seek for years...

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Old
04-24-2011, 10:25 AM
  #214
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Move him to the 4th line and move Eller to C. DD and him both are playing better than Gomez, so why is he still getting 17-19 mins of ice each game? It baffles me. Do we have to play him so much because he makes more money? Doesn't JM want to win?

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04-24-2011, 10:31 AM
  #215
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The theory was that Gomez was brought in because of his playmaking skills, his leadership abilities and his ability to step it up in the playoffs. Last night was a perfect opportunity for him to showcase all of those attributes. I am not saying he had a bad game because he didn't. On the other hand, his contribution has fallen short of the expectations of many.

Gainey has to be disappointed on how his key acquisition has performed. I think Gomez has let him down.

While Eller and Desharnais may not be second line centers, at least not at the moment, they are certainly capable of playing at the same level that Gomez is now playing. Not one of the three could be considered among the top second line centers in the league. It is a problem that needs to be addressed.

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Old
04-24-2011, 12:49 PM
  #216
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Gomez should take # 11 off his back, and go back to # 91......the hockey gods insist...
I totally agree.

I will say this, though. Once DD was put on that line instead of Moen, I found Gomez went from looking like an obvious detriment to the team (it seriously seems like every time we're penned in our zone, I see #11 gliding to the bench once the pressure is finally relieved), to simply looking invisible/ineffective most of the time (seriously, how good was DD playing before messing up his knee?) Guess it really isn't "all his fault" out there... just somewhere between partly and mostly.

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Old
04-24-2011, 12:53 PM
  #217
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Well, I after I somewhat defend him he comes out with a pathetic performance like that. Only reason I noticed him is when he was losing faceoff after faceoff. I actaully laughed when Bergeron was toss out and Recchi had to come in and still beat him.

When DD was put on his line he looked even worse. No wonder Moen always finds his way back on that line, Gomez probably asks for that so he can look better.

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04-24-2011, 12:57 PM
  #218
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nevermind I think I was wrong.

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Old
04-24-2011, 01:02 PM
  #219
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Halpern and Bergeron were tossed out.

Recchi and Eller stepped in. Recchi won the face off over Eller.

Unless that was a completely different one and Recchi won two faceoffs?
Ya Recchi won two faceoffs.

I distinctly remember it because Gomez went on a huge losing streak at the faceoff circle and then when Recchi came in, I thought he would take it. It was in the offensive zone too late in the game. Well, he lost it quite easily.

And maybe its just me but it gets quite annoying when the refs take so long to drop the puck or toss people out so often.

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04-24-2011, 01:05 PM
  #220
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Ya Recchi won two faceoffs.

I distinctly remember it because Gomez went on a huge losing streak at the faceoff circle and then when Recchi came in, I thought he would take it. It was in the offensive zone too late in the game. Well, he lost it quite easily.

And maybe its just me but it gets quite annoying when the refs take so long to drop the puck or toss people out so often.
Yeah, they've apparently told everyone they would be on the watch for players who cheat on FOs.

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04-24-2011, 01:29 PM
  #221
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Points #1 and #2 don't really matter.

1) I don't mind that we moved McDonagh. There is no way he'd really develop here anyhow with Subban getting all the rookie ice-time. I love having Pyatt anyway - and Higgins, while still good, never turned into a superstar. I still don't like the trade but not because of who we gave up but because of who we got.
If we had not signed Spacek and/or moved Hamrlik earlier. He would have received plenty of time. We had to trade for Wisniewski and Sopel because our defense was depleted and a few years prior picked up Schneider. Having watched the New York/Washington series. It becomes all the more telling how awful this trade was for us. McDonagh has been a beast for New York and is easily now a top four in the league. He would be our third quite possibly, edging out Gorges, although that is debatable. Regardless, the kid has been fantastic despite New York's elimination. I, for one, am quite miffed we gave him up for what essentially amounts to garbage in Scott Gomez. There was no reason Gainey should have added. The Rangers were desperate to be rid of Gomez.

Unfortunately, this organization will value their "classy" reputation and never bury Gomez, and therefore leave us stuck footing the bill for another four years. What is unnerving is how we can build a cup contender while resigning Price and Subban next season if Gomez is around. He alone could pay for both of them or come damn close.

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Old
04-24-2011, 01:39 PM
  #222
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"Siesta" could not be more appropriate for gomez and his play. I had hoped I was wrong when he had an excellent 1st game but it looks like his true nature that we have watched all year is back. He doesn't care, doesn't try and doesn't belong on this team. After this year he should be sent down, we should have no desire to have the rookies learn from this losers mentality and "work ethic".

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Old
04-24-2011, 01:44 PM
  #223
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Points #1 and #2 don't really matter.

1) I don't mind that we moved McDonagh. There is no way he'd really develop here anyhow with Subban getting all the rookie ice-time. I love having Pyatt anyway - and Higgins, while still good, never turned into a superstar. I still don't like the trade but not because of who we gave up but because of who we got.

2) We knew he was overpaid and never going to live up to his contract. If he could score 55-points, I don't think the fanbase would be happy we have him, but we could live with him like last year. I wasn't happy we had him, but 59 points wasn't atrocious, I guess.

3) His play is making points #1 and #2 far, far worse. I think trading Aaron Downey for Gomez would have still had fans upset with what he's brought. 38 points? Is that a joke? Desharnais had 22-points in half the games. Mathieu Darche had freaking 26-points in 21-less games. James Wisniewski had just 8 less points in half the games! Not only that, but despite being 32nd (yes, 32nd) on the team in +/- (-15, -8 worse than the next forward), he still played the 3rd most among forwards on the team. I know that's not technically his call, but the guy could of at least tried to produce. His production rate (points per minute played) is so horrendous, I don't even want to say it.
Yes, his play makes the other points worst, of course. But I will disagree on McDo's possible development with us based on Subban's play. There is room for 2 kids developing. You would have used Subban more efficiently if McDo would have been around. You would have not needed to acquire guys like Sopel and Mara if McDo would have shown you what he was showing towards mid-season. And even if he would not have development the way he did with the Rangers, a less develop version of him would still have given us great results. And I'm not even talking about the future, it's not always solely about THIS season, we have to reconstruct that D this summer, and he would have been 1 less problem to figure out. The deal in itself made no sense based on the fact that Sather desperately wanted to get rid of him....your #2 best prospect should not have been part of that kidn of deal. We were not talking about Brad Richards here. And we were not talking about Scott Gomez, the great deal breaker that attracts every UFA to sign here like some would like to pretend.

But I agree, it all comes down to performance. A performance he had already showed he didn't have with the Rangers. There were signs of decline as far as he was concerned, we chose to ignore it and give one of our best prospect in return....and maybe another one in Valentenko who was described by Timmins (that guy everybody praises now 'cause of his great picks who's doing great elsewhere)....as a better version of Emelin. An Emelin we hope will come over to save us..

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04-24-2011, 02:12 PM
  #224
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I defended Gomez all year because he was a Hab and I believe in supporting your own but what I find is sad that I don't see any hope. At best he is a 35-50 point player next year. Sadly I don't see him ever reaching 60 points again in his career.

Unfortunately he looks like one of those players that decline at a young age. However I'm not dillusional like most people who think we'll magically trade or bury him anytime soon.

I will focus my attention at the rest of the team.

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Old
04-24-2011, 02:24 PM
  #225
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Don't worry. Scott Gomez is a proven playoff performer and will step it up when it matters most.

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